just phyllis

just phyllis
Small Town, Indiana, USA
November 13
Blogging with PTSD --------------- "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around." - Leo Buscaglia _____________________________________ All works ©Phyllis45, the author of this blog. _____________________________________ Also posting at Our Salon http://oursalon.ning.com/ http://oursalon.ning.com/profile/Phyllis


JANUARY 28, 2012 3:03PM

An Imaginary Conversation About Sex

Rate: 24 Flag

I have been thinking about trying the dating site Plentyoffish.com, now known as POF. In that vein, my brain took off imagining the possibilities of things that could go wrong, which is where I always head, and came up with this conversation. Yes, a view into my musings. Hang on...

M: So, do you want to have sex?

F: Not right now, no. Why do you ask?

M: Well, I thought I would ask since your profile said that you wanted someone to have fun with.

F: And that automatically means sex?

M: Well, yeah, it usually does. Don't you like sex?

F: Sure, I like sex. I just thought I would try getting to know you first.

M: Oh, well, what would you like to know? I was pretty thorough in the profile.

F: Okay, since you brought up sex, when was your last HIV test?

M: Huh? HIV? Why would I need an HIV test? I don't sleep with people that have AIDS.

F: I'm sure you don't on purpose, but there are undiagnosed, seemingly healthy, people who are infected with HIV. Have you ever been tested?

M: No.

F: What about hepatitis? Have you been tested for that? Your profile says you have tattoos. You may have slept with people who have tattoos. And again, hepatitis can be asymptomatic and you could catch it and not know it.

M: No, I don't have hepatitis and I don't need a test. I'm not turning yellow or anything. Besides, I use condoms. Where the hell do you get off asking these questions?

F: You brought up sex. I am merely trying to determine your sexual history before we engage in the act. And, condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing pregnancy so why would they be 100% effective in preventing disease?

M: Well, I wear condoms every time I have sex!

F: Even oral sex?

M: What!? Of course not. 

F: Well, there you go. And besides, even though you didn't ask, I have a latex allergy so I can't really use condoms. How about kids. Do you want more of them?

M: No, I don't. My kids are all grown up and I don't want to raise any more.

F: Have you had a vasectomy?

M: No, I haven't had a vasectomy. Isn't that what the pill's for?

F: I'm not on the pill. Health reasons. So how are we going to avoid pregnancy?

M: Why don't you get your tubes tied?

F: Oh, I should have an invasive procedure so that you wouldn't have to get snipped?

M: Why not. Lots of women get them. My ex's did.

F: All of them?

M: Sure.

F: Hm.

M: What's that "Hm" for? My ex-wife used to say that and it drove me nuts.

F: So you don't get tested for disease and you haven't had a vasectomy and I am allergic to latex and you want to have sex?

 M: Well, not when you put it like that. Hey, I need to go to the little boy's room.

F: Sure. I'll get another drink.

M: Sure. (Walks away, leaves the bar.)

F: Hi, friend (into telephone). Are you in town? My evening seems to have opened up. Yeah, I'll tell you when you get here.

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And yes, I realize that not all men are like this imaginary guy. Like I said, it's just where my brain goes. I never said it was pretty.
He needs to get something tied.
Hi, DandyLion, nice to meet you. The sad thing is, I have met real people, male and female, like this guy. But it does take all kinds. Guess that's where my brain comes up with these things, so it's not all bad, huh.
I think it is mostly bad. But every once in awhile you find someone you can talk to and it makes the other five hundred idiots worth it. Yes, I said, five hundred.
yikes, mz buzzkill!

sure U bring up all kindsa good points (a most instructive post!) but what if the guy is a good guy , clean in the body, but kinda screwed up socially cuz his ex kept sayin “hmm” at him till he went nuts and called her a “c” and then that was it and then she started defaming hi m all over town & then he sort of identified with the horrible picture of him that she drew, and a nice guy was turned into an ogre in his own head and started getting stupid with all the natural ogre men , and caught their vibe,

But it turned out he was a gentleman & well endowed not only physically but morally, under all the societal bullshit…

Poor fucker.
My friend has dated a lot through POF and has had exactly those conversations you describe, about birth control, disease, condoms, personal responsibility and fun. She was looking for sex, but with men who were actually aware of the risk of sex with condoms (does not prevent herpes, warts or other HPV infection). She did get a tubal, but still stunned that before that, most guys would rather risk it than use a condom or get a vasectomy.
Unfortunately, men on dating sites are looking to date, which means sex before relationship, most of the time. They have other criteria for wife and mother of their children, and they are looking for them as well, just elsewhere. You may have to join a church. :)
zanelle, 500? Yikes.

James, all that you say is totally possible. But why did he bring up sex on the first drink?

OB, please, not the church. Maybe a bowling league. Yeah, I like to bowl... Really, right now, I don't know what I'm hoping for except some fun and a nice, intelligent person to hang out with. All of the diseases associated with sex are a major turn off.
Just tell him you are up for anything that doesn't involve exchanging fluids.

But of course, you gotta find him attractive.

That's more than enough information for the first date.
Bringing it up on the first drink saves both of you a lot of time. You'd be really pissed off if you dated him for a few weeks or months then found out all he wanted was a roll in the sack.

The old adage of; "If you're not here after what I'm here after then you'll be here after I'm gone" fits well here. You might as well know what his intentions are right up front.

why not?
is it a faux paus? foh pah?yeah it is.
a skilled gentleman would bide his time.

the world conspires against him!
what if all he did was be polite & gracious?
"weak", would come the thundering judgmenat
from the gal camp. weak and strong. passive and active.
a man is both. depends on what he emphasizes.

cannot tell you how much i would love a first date
where the gal said boldy, lets go f.if she a good girl, i
take her up on it.

so much moral miasma. arg.
Nick, I agree. That is what the first date is for- finding out if you want a second.

Sky, true, intentions should be up front, but what if you change your mind? And how can you know without info?

Daisy Jane, my sister didn't tell me that but she did fall for all of the moves. I don't mind a guy busting a move as long as he's honest about it. Can't stand liars and cheats.
Ok, First I have to say I am loving Mr. Emmerling's comments.
Second, whatever happened to necking and groping? A little necking and some groping can help in the decision making process...
Besides, a slow burn is the best way to end up with a raging fire.
I toyed with Plenty of Fish for a very short period of time. Everyone I bumped into either wanted to get married or had SERIOUS issues. I run into enough nuttiness without adding to it from POF. Just my experience, but definitely not for me.
More of a conversation about why NOT to have sex?
I could go on and on. POF(F) was called that forever, being shorter, and many a nice date, or relationship even, found there, as in the one I'm in now... and some before that.
Not bad to ask questions, oh NO. We must ask questions,
and must also, in my estimation, go on feelings...
as onislandtime said, plenty of things to do besides IT
while we ask and consider those questions--
and answers
A patient guy, or gal, will not be pushy, waiting for
that magical time, should it unfold... that way.
Be careful... of course, Phyllis
Phyllis I do the same thing. I have entire conversations in my head, both sides, and thereby talk myself out of stuff. But, thank goodness I'm married!
Depressing conversation. A good reminder why it is essential to take things one step at a time.
Why I never want to date ever again...scary yet funny world you have written of here.
and true. I'm packing hand sanitizer instead of lube for my first date outside of marriage. Course by the time I actually have one diseases will probably be a thing of the past.
analysis paralysis... life is short!
(but hopefully not the penis)
These are all such great comments! I am on my phone now, though, so I will reply when I'm back on the computer.
Tr ig, maybe I do over-analyze. Would that be a bad thing? I didn't say that's what this is, I just thought it was interesting. And ya know what, I have never been lucky with relationships. Obviously. One night stands. Absolutely. All I want. But no one ever wants to hang around. Some of us just drive guys away. I'm told that I scare the poor dears. I call bullshit. If they are that insecure that really isn't my problem, is it. So they go find another woman who plays the game. And you know what else? I can't even find friends to hang out with. I never learned how. I was never allowed to trust my own judgment. A whole lifetime of being told that you are wrong doesn't build confidence.

One thing I do know. I am not going to get some incurable disease that I could have avoided. I don't care if that means celibacy for the rest of my life. Do I like sex? Hell yeah. The more the merrier. But that's never been enough for the guys I've known. They always want me to change. Well, screw 'em. I keep an eye out for the guy that will like me as I am, but I'm not going to waste my time on some fly by night and catch cooties while I'm waiting.
POF - piss off, fool.
I love this post! It is the reality of dating, and there is too much to risk if you don't have these conversations. Unfortunately, most people would rather live in the world of denial then protect themselves from what's out there.

As for me, I'm not ready to have these conversations which is why I haven't dated in 4 years! hahaha... it's too complicated and stressful!
Hmmmmm. I saw a dead fish in the canal today. It's backbone had been all chewed up. Then I read this.

It has to do with "backbone."

I think.
If a guy thinks you are the lady for him, someone he wants a relationship with, then he won't suggest sex too early on (like the first half hour or before you meet). If he is suggesting it, he may not like you enough to date, but sex isn't dating. There are a few camps to be in- sex that leads to dating, and dating that leads to sex, sex only, (and friendship with dates). Usually, people decide within the first ten minutes if they are attracted to you enough to do one or the other, both, or neither. If they don't try anything at all after a couple dates, they probably aren't the right one either. But, suggesting something and insisting on it are two very different things. Impatience is not a virtue. Have the conversation in your head. If you like him enough for a second date, then you can talk about it then. Because if you aren't snogging by then, how much passion is there going to be? I think you are woman who needs some good, clean passion. With breakfast.
wish ya the best then..
Maybe my 'success' comes from having no expectations.. dunno:
like the Eagles said
" I know you won't let me down
'cuz I'm already standing on the ground"

that said, I don't do lonely as well, perhaps, as you.
Honestly, tr ig, I feel like you are expecting me to conform to your lifestyle. It works for you. I'm glad for you. And I don't do lonely well but I am used to it. Can we agree that we have lived different lives and have different outlooks? Neither one better than the other, just different.
In an ideal world both men and women would be playing in the same game; i.e. both would start with a relationship and let that lead to sex or start with sex and let that led to a relationship.

Unfortunately, the real world isn't like that. Most men want to start with sex, get the raging hormones out of the way, then consider the possibility of a relationship. Women usually want to see if a relationship is likely before engaging in sex. So we're not only not playing the same game, we're not even playing in the same arena!!

Frankly, it's amazing that any of us ever "get any" at all, and absolutely stunning that we ever develop relationships!

I was fortunate in that waaaaaaaaaay back in my day, there were well defined gender roles and an established formula for developing a relationship. I wouldn't even think about going about things the way they're gone about in today's world of "dating". It would blow my mind!

..........and, I'm a very happy bachelor who doesn't need sex or a relationship. I just hugggggggg Tink when needed and check out miss page 31 in the thorn bushes otherwise........ ;-)
Whoa.. apologies. If you think I expect ANYTHING from you, or expect you to do anything I perceive is right for me, then I have not been clear. You proposed a play conversation and I reacted with my viewpoint... carry on P :)
Just here to rubberneck.. sex in the title in all
Apologies if I misunderstood. It was a feeling from previous comments as well as today. Rubberneck away.
Just found this very interesting article through a link at NPR's home page, about how hard it is for people, even those who are smart and informed, to negotiate and insist on safe sex.
Hi, p45,

If you've had bad experiences in the past, it is somewhat natural that your brain would take you to the worst case scenario first. That may not be prudent as much as a punch-to-the-heart hangover.

Yes, some guys (and gals) out there are assholes. However, a lot of people (both men and women) go on those sites to find people to fuck - not for the long term thingy. So, I think it might not be too logical a thing to disparage men for seeking sex if you're going to join a free website that is a known portal for men and women looking for quick sex.

That one where they fit you with your soul mate might be a better choice for you - what's it called? I can't remember. You have to pay for it, but I think it would make for a lot better mental conversation.

And, as far as safe sex goes, I have gotten tested before. But I hate condoms as much, if not more, than the guys. I have had sex with men using them but it's awful. I came of age before AIDS, and I haven't adjusted yet.

In the last thirty five years or so, I've only slept with men that I love and know well, and I have been blessed in not getting anything. I have had eight serious boyfriends in my entire life - and I'm old! My son was conceived while I was using a diaphragm. Only 85% effective. And, I had a stroke while taking the pill, so that's out for me as well.

It's 2012 - we can break up the earth's crust to release natural gas, but we can't find a better way to prevent pregnancy and disease than wrapping the sausage in a plastic casing?

Maybe some sort of healing for the heart and mind is called for, so that the fun guys out there can find you.
(sigh) isn't this a sign of the times... rush, rush, rush...wham bam! Done. And his last little line of dialogue about "the little boy's room"---oh, the many ways one could read that "little." Delightful.

I loved this comment I read above: "Besides, a slow burn is the best way to end up with a raging fire." Nice...
At least you didn't imagine him asking you for references.
James, a man can be polite and gracious without coming across as weak; it's all in the delivery. Just don't cross the line to controlling.

oit, nothing at all wrong with necking and groping. Nothing at all. That can be the next imaginary conversation.

desert_rat, I noticed that on eharmony, which is why I never gave them my money.

tr ig, always careful.

Firechick, you get it! I have to admit, my conversations are rarely equivalent to reality, but at least I'm prepared if a topic comes up.

Patrick, depressing indeed. I read once that a lab in the Eastern hemisphere somewhere was discarding old tissue samples; they keep them for 50 years, apparently. This British sailor had died of tuberculosis so on a whim, the lab ran an HIV test on his tissues and it came up positive. So HIV has been around for a very long time, just unrecognized.

Daisy Jane, your sister is wise. Please keep dispensing the accumulated wisdom from the women of your family.
LL2, I wouldn't let the "sex talk" put you off of dating. We wouldn't want to deprive that special man of your presence.

Julie, hand sanitizer is never a bad thing. We can hope that the diseases are under control, but my guess is they'll just find new ones. Big Pharma needs the money.

Myriad, I take it your POF experience was similar to desert_rat?

lana bardot, I understand. Also, a dearth of eligible men in my neighborhood. There are singles in my town but they have issues that don't go well with mine.

mhold, interesting analogy. Lack of backbone is endemic.

OB, good clean passion with breakfast is the perfect way to start the day. One reason I'd like a live in guy. I can tell right away if I'd like to have conjugals with a guy and I do my best to not encourage the guys I don't want. Of course, all of this is moot where I live now, but brushing up on the rules is never a bad thing.

Sky, my problem with the dichotomy is this- guys want to get the raging hormones out of the way but if they meet a like minded woman they lose respect for her. Men expect the woman to hold out. The honesty on both sides is compromised in this game.
OB, I will look at that web site. Thanks.

Wren Dancer, you are correct, I have been nursing the punch-to-the-heart hangover and tend towards the dark side. I am in counseling and am working through, but with no mate potential in town it is taking a bit longer than it could. I did try eharmony but it was a lot of farmer types and guys with issues. I just like the urban lifestyle, so am working on getting myself into shape to attract that sort.

Pensive Person, indeed, the slow burn sounds nice. Thanks for stopping by.

Stim, I wouldn't have been able to supply any so the end result would have been the same.
This is such a good lesson on what to do and what not to do...
Algis, it has been an enlightening read; all of the comments very insightful. Thanks for stopping by.
oh yes...
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\)¯¯¯¯¯'\_)))„„\)­­­­ ❤ℓϑɤɕ❤¸.•★
All the men I meet are pretty similar to your imaginary man- seriously! Not so imaginary- more of a realistic portrayal if you ask me

algis, thank you. The rose is delightful!

Haley, that's what I was wondering. Maybe that's why they're afraid of me. :0)
and I think your brain did a pretty good job of it - and I can thoroughly relate to what your brain does :) for once in this matter - rate and a hug
Hi, Rolling. Yeah, my brain is okay. It's generally my delivery that needs work. Hug to you, too.
I think this is excellent, thank you for it. It sounds realistic too.
FusunA, thank you. I do try to see both sides when I argue with myself.