just phyllis

just phyllis
Location
Small Town, Indiana, USA
Birthday
November 13
Bio
Blogging with PTSD --------------- "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around." - Leo Buscaglia _____________________________________ All works ┬ęPhyllis45, the author of this blog. _____________________________________ Also posting at Our Salon http://oursalon.ning.com/ http://oursalon.ning.com/profile/Phyllis

MY RECENT POSTS

OCTOBER 20, 2012 11:54PM

How Do You "Need" A Man?

Rate: 30 Flag

 

drive
The drive through the VA Cemetery

I have had lots of advice over the years regarding men and relationships. The latest was from an 84-year-old professor of developmental psychology who told me that I should head to the city and have someone help me with my style because I'm attractive but could be more so, and that I need to get out of my workspace if I ever hope to meet someone. He has said this before, and I gave him my same answer: This is my work look, and if people don’t like it then that is their issue. I know I could give a better answer, and I’m assuming he means well, but he gives me flashbacks.

Other advice I have received was pretty much the same from whomever was giving it: Don’t be so smart because you intimidate the guys; You should smile more!; Go to church so you can meet people; You need to let the guy know that you need him for something that he can do for you. With all of that sterling advice, why do I still have questions?

I was in my favorite place to ponder this morning, that would be the shower, and I pondered a lot. It was a long shower. The preeminate theme over the years has been that I am intimidating because I don’t act like I need a guy for any of his skills. There is some truth to that. I could use a good carpenter, but other than that I can pretty much fend for myself. It may take me a little while to figure things out but I eventually get what I want done, done. Alternatively, I will hire someone to do it for me. Therefore, I started my musings with wondering why guys need to feel “needed” for more than their presence and the love and affection they can give.

Since all of the sages in my life tell me that men need to feel needed for a deed that only they can perform, I wondered if what they were looking for was appreciation. After all, people generally like to feel appreciated. Appreciation is good, but maybe not enough to build a life together. What happens when the magnificent deed becomes commonplace? This seems like it would put a lot of pressure on this poor guy to keep coming up with new deeds to perform. Hence, it has to be more than that. Could it be that boys are taught that deeds are how a man shows love and affection, and thus he must slay the proverbial dragon for his lady fair?

My musings then led me to ponder whether this need to be appreciated wasn’t just a well disguised need to be loved. If a man can only show affection by vanquishing mine enemies, so to speak, then dribbling oil down the fender of my car is a stark cry for affection. (Washing the oil off might have achieved the intended goal.)

Showing a need for love outright is very scary, this I know. I can’t see anyone doing it without a great deal of trust being built up first. Getting to that point can be tough if there are issues with incompatible approaches to the whole courtship thing. Honesty can cut through a lot of hurdles; it is way easier to run on a flat surface instead of jumping over snags in the path. Is honesty off-putting, if delivered with regard to feelings? I have found it helpful in other interpersonal relationships, and verbalizing is much easier to interpret than dropping hints. Hints, frankly, suck as they leave entirely too much to be interpreted. I just don't know how honest discourse works in romance as I am lacking experience in that department.

So, let’s go back to the topic of men needing to be “needed.” I think that, with the right man, a bit of oil on the fender wouldn’t be the end of the world. I would prefer to find a guy that thinks it’s the height of fun to vacuum and dust; I know they’re out there. Moreover, I honestly could use a good carpenter in my life. It’s a bit of a trick hanging a cupboard by myself and I really want a pocket door. Nonetheless, what I really need is an honest, open relationship. You wouldn’t believe how much I would appreciate just being able to be my whole self, and I would absolutely return the favor.

 

tree
The tree, week 3

 

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Yes, we do want to be someone's hero. It's trained into us since we were boys. Not sure that's all bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrN9Wgh5Aic
My husband came home from doing the groceries (a chore I hate) yesterday and announced he'd also picked up anti-freeze for my car because the other day I'd mentioned it was low. Flowers are nice, but when a man brings home the anti-freeze, that's true luv.

I could have done this myself. I can even pop the hood and add the anti-freeze to the reservoir, but he'll do it for me and I'll let him because it's nice to feel needed.
I was raised that women do these things and men do these other things. For instance, women cook and clean, while men mow the grasss and do hevy lifting and so forth. Men take care of the cars.. My Grandfather would not even allow me to put gas in my tank because it was a man's job. I am not going to say one way is better or worse. I think as you say we are all individuals with different expectations and aspirations. I have always been happy with the situation. But I lack feminists thoughts in some ways, for instance I really think gentleman should be treasured by their ladies as ladies should be treasured by their gentleman. Be an elusive butterfly, yet still give them hope.
I just wanted to say every woman should live her own dream. I really liked this blog.
If a man loves you and knows you love him, there is nothing he would not do for you. Making you happy will satisfy his sense of honor and chivalry. That is what real men do. Well thought out; enjoyed it much. R
"I just don't know how honest discourse works in romance as I am lacking experience in that department."

Phyllis, it works the same way as it does in any other relationship. Whether you're making friends or getting to know a work colleague or a new neighbor. It all originates from the same starting point. You're interesting, funny and easy to be around. I can say that from personal experience, having met you. If you can be the same way around a man you're interested in, an open honest relationship will flow naturally from that and most likely result in much much more.

In fact, maybe he'll be your hero as furface aka MTN intimates most men wish to be.
@ Margaret,

I really liked your comment. It is logical and useful. Disregard what I said. Yes, listen to Margaret, not me.
MTN, it sounds sweet, actually. Confusing, but sweet. Query- is that all part of the dance- finding someone who's heroic deeds mesh with the lady's appreciation of said deeds?

Nick, that was a great video.

V., that is a thoughtful man you have there. After writing this and reading the comments I'm thinking it's been a lack of knowledge and communication that has been my downfall.

Kimberly, mutual treasuring sounds nice. If I had a brother I probably would be less handy with a weed whacker, but only girls had us outside mowing & shoveling snow. And Dad insisted that we should know how to service our own cars. I just wanted to learn it long before he taught it to me.

Thoth, thank you. That's how I feel about love, too.

Margaret, I like interesting, funny, and easy to be with as a description. It's a good launching pad.

Kimberly, I listen to everyone. I liked your comment.
Phyllis~ should be on the cover! Great humor, great synopsis and great pictures. One of your best! And the way you garden....any man would be lucky to have you!!!
Wow Phyllis! My male psyche feels stretched out on yer anatomy table, utterly dissected.
As a man with few mechanical skills, I have often felt intimidated by the “handy” fellows.
Right now, my similarly tech/mechanically-retarded sis (it must be in the genes!) is dating the NEW GUY, who can do just about anything. And does. And she says, “it’s so nice to be taken care of”.
But Sis needs me. To confide in. if I got one skill in this world, it is the ability to listen. Especially to women. I enjoy giving support. Of the nonjudgmental kind. She knows I always got her back.
I heard from a galpal friend that she recently met someone with whom she “makes a good team”, someone it feels “natural to do the most mundane things with.”
~
What can we ultimately ‘’give’’ another person that they truly ‘’need’’
I say, somewhat philosophically (sorry): THE OPEN CLEAR SPACE OF BEING. OF ALLOWING THEM TO BE.
Meaning no restrictions on how they act think or move.
What loved ones provide each other is: an aperture, an opening to themselves.
~
Ha. If you put on yer double entendre ears, this is funny as hell: “I don’t mind a man dribbling a little oil down my fender.” : )
A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. Yep. That is where I am now. I don't need more trouble and I can take care of things just fine. But.....I could use a hug.
Brazen Princess, thanks! This one took a lot of work to get just right. I appreciate the compliments.

James, I like this: "What loved ones provide each other is: an aperture, an opening to themselves." I'll add this to my list. And yes, I tend to come up with unintentional entendres. It's an art.

zanelle, I need a hug, too. I hope we both get one today.
i am officially sending you and dear Zanelle
a hug,
albeit of the cyber variety.

And i aint a guy who hugs come to , naturally, neither! : )
eh,jus be urself,them that don't like it,ya wouldn't wanna be around long anyway....
R
"You wouldn’t believe how much I would appreciate just being able to be my whole self, and I would absolutely return the favor..." Enough said... we don't necessarily "need" a man nor a woman, but we do need one another or as the Stones put it: "You can't always find what you want, but if you try some times, you get what you need." seek and ye shall find. R&R ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7knIi3LGf4M
It's Sunday morning here, one of my favorite times for love. I enjoy it when a man wants to do small, heroic things for me. I don't need it, but I'm charmed and I appreciate it when he does.

On a lighter note, have you considered dating a carpenter, and then maybe a plumber, or any number of men in the trades? hee hee.

Finally, as for "morphing" into some unnatural look, I say bah. Be more yourself. Someone is looking for YOU, so send it out there, dear P.
Is it possible there is a bit of over-analysis going on here? Worrying too much about what's "needed" when it should be about what's "wanted." What about just wanting to be with someone for a multitude of reasons, starting with - you like each other. And by "like" I mean "wanting to know more."

You really like each other, more each time you're together. You like talking to each other. You like finding things out about each other. You like learning each other's thoughts and opinions and tastes. It is the mental equivalent of Mary's post about kissing. If the goal is to hop in the sack or simply have a short-term mainly physical relationship, there's no point in building up to the kiss or being delighted by how "like" after "like" after "like" piles up into something more. People who say things like I only date blonds or he's gotta be handy or put heavy emphasis on physical traits in their personal ad profiles aren't really going to be interested in "liking" someone. But they're interested in a different kind of relationship than you are. I think liking each other is critical if there's going to be more. MTN mentions wanting to be someone's hero - but I think it would be hard to feel like someone's hero if you didn't like them first.

@James: I can't imagine any woman minding a little oil dribbled down her fender; in fact, it would be most welcome since so many of us take our cars to Wal-Mart and Jiffy Lube where those highly efficient guys don't get paid to dribble.
I have read the comments yet jp but in case they're lacking in banality, let me say that it's just a matter of time. Lots of guys like a self-reliant woman and the law of averages says that one will be by soon. On the other hand, restricting the field to guys who think "it’s the height of fun to vacuum and dust" considerably lengthens those odds. Good luck.
s/b I haven't read the comments yet...
James, cyber hug back to you!

Steel, that's what I was hoping the answer would be. I just needed a definition.

jmac, glad you agree with that sentence. I've gotten that impression of you over the months.

Emily, I have considered dating like that but it felt too mercenary. :) I'm getting dressed to go see Jack Hanna now, and it's going to be all me.

Margaret, over-analysis and lack of data were exactly my problem, that's very perceptive. No one would define "need" for me. Some actually wanted me to fake a need so that some poor unsuspecting man would feel good. I always thought that meeting, getting acquainted, likes and dislikes revealed, just as in all relationships, was the road to go but I've gotten out of practice so I am clarifying details. And I have been dribbled at Jiffy Lube. It wasn't pleasant.

Abra, vacuum and dusting would be a bonus. Whomever I merge with will have to be able to tolerate a bit of mess, and be willing to clean when they feel it's too much. My yard looks great, inside the house not so much.
You really think men need to be needed for manly things only they can do, so asking them to do those things will endear them to the female?
WRONG WRONG WRONG . . speaking for me at least.

What you need, as you noted, is practice. Much water flowed under that bridge while you were thinking in the shower these last however many years. What I'm saying I guess, is that thinking, OVERthinking at the very least, is not necessarily.. your friend.

Huge difference between talking (or writing) sh*t, and actually doing sh*t. The old dude is right. Go to the city OR turn loose some technology and have the city come to you. We've discussed it before. It's called the, tah-da, internet. Alternatively, do some more thinking and maybe some day a really chivalrous dude like thoth might fall from the sky and land in your potato patch.
Could happen! I guess. . .
I have been thinking about this a lot too as I am frequently told my fierce independence is intimidating. I refuse to believe there isn't a man out there that would be happy just being himself.
Hm . @ Phyllis, it was a damn big hug cuz I am unaccountably fulla love today!

@ eternal provocateur margartet: haw!
“those highly efficient guys don't get paid to dribble.”

Yes well you get what you pay for. An efficient overhaul,and one hell of an, uh, inflated bill.?
Sounds to me as if maybe you're turning Mick's song on its head, i.e. Oh, you can't always get what you nee-eed, you can't always get what you nee-eeed. But if you try sometime, you just might find...you get what you want.
My husband says he fell for me because I was willing to attempt car repair on my own, because I can chop my own cords of wood, because I am willing to play with little children for hours, then make them do chores too and *because* I am by far the smartest woman he's ever known (*he* says : ))....and he likes my smile.
If the guy needs *you* to be what he needs only, it's not the right guy.
You are exactly right to wait until the honest, open guy who loves that you are your whole self shows up.

Smiling is always a good idea.

Advice? Maybe a tiny noticing of my own: from personal experience, a guy with older sisters is often the type who is more willing to let you be you. Believe me, I have dated all kinds back in the day -- the right older sisters really help a guy in the acceptance of women-being-who-they-are-and-I'm-okay-with-that-department, in my humble opinion. : )

I think you're great, Phyllis, just the way you are.
ps -- Lovely photo of the VA cemetery, but I'm not sure that's your best neighborhood for trolling for guys : )
Need...want...how about what we enjoy and can find time for? Men can be great fun to be around, but do I actually require one? Doubtless it would ease my mind only in stages, and then only once he'd proved trustworthy, forthright, and in it for the long haul. I've been jilted before, painfully. I'm just not sure I'm ready to trust. You might well be ready, however, so more power to you. I wish you good fortune in your quest for true love.
Peace
Rated
find a woman with carpentry skills and you're set.
OK, here's what I think: It's a crap-shoot how and why and when and where things happen. It could be anytime, any place.

I was smitten the first time I saw the Tiny Perfect Redhead, and neither of us was looking, either, except perhaps in an existential sense. (I even remember exactly what she was wearing.)

I wasn't (and am not) anyone's idea of a hero or a raging intellect or handsome. It all just clicked.
I've received very little advice regarding men...because...well...I know so many of them very well...but I certainly didn't need a one of them until now...and then after seeing a friend who is a man everyday for a year...for hours on end...all day sometimes...I went away for a month...I didn't think of him once...I returned and it was like we were the only two people in the room...I need. I need that one.
Who can advise ?
We're all so very different ...
Since so much of so many lives are spent in routine, I tend to go with James' galpal, and think : someone it feels “natural to do the most mundane things with.”
Like a friend.

With only one exception, the formative relationships in my life have grown from laughter. Better than sex, I think, though I rate sex pretty high ... before food or shelter even, at times ... but laughter with a friend is the clinch, for me.
" As a young man, I set out to be a genius, but mercifully, laughter intervened." Lawrence Durrell.

The exception, oddly, was the woman I married.
I've been hearing the same stuff since I was 15, and I have learned to let the men do the things they can do as often as possible. Not because I can't, but because they need to. This gives me free time, which I still don't actually spend on too much beauty styling. Howev's, when you don't dress to attract a man's attention as a woman for dating, then you aren't interested. Dressing for work is, as you say, dressing for work- not play, or any remote likelihood of sex. Dressing for yourself is just that. It will only get worse as you get older, I am afraid, because you likely aren't being poisoned by all those reason-altering hormones of your youth. :)
I have a friend who has been saying for years that she might try getting around to trying to date some time. She is in her mid to late 40s. Not a knockout, but cute. Dresses nice, looks girl enough. Loves sports, sports bars, beer, hiking, outdoors, not looking for a husband or babies. yet.... she has all these men friends she has rejected for more and keeps them all around to do her "guy stuff". While friendly, her attitude towards wanting to attract a man is completely dismissive, and she thinks someone is going to magically see past all of that and hunt her down and court her until she relents. which means, she has chosen a path that is about as close to committing to being single as she can without admitting it. It completely takes away any possibility for failure or rejection, and passively aggressively puts all responsibility on this "mystery guy" to "get her" and make it happen. If I ask her about dating, she gets angry about it, but then complains she has no one to do the date things with. ????
I know you are a good looking woman Phyllis, but if you want a man to look past your beautiful face and hair and boobs, he will first have to look at them. And talk to you for a long time, while looking at them. I agree, most of the guys you know are not worth the hours it takes... so, go find some guys you don't know. Eventually, they will want to change your oil and vaccuum, and please let them when they ask.
tr ig, "old dude" was telling me to go for a makeover, not gallivanting, in the big city. And he's almost as pushy as you are, so his advice usually just pisses me off. He totally listens to nothing I say about tickets that I've bought or free concerts that are on my agenda and goes off on his own rant.

CG, isn't it irritating! First we're told to take care of ourselves, we take pride in being independent, then we're told we're too scary for words. Sheesh.

James, still hugging!

Matt, excellent rewrite!

JT, do you have any available brothers-in-law? :) It's nice to know those guys exist. Thanks for the encouragement. And you're right about that neighborhood. There's a scary dude that lives at the VA.

PW, I believe that I am ready to stick a toe in, finally, again. This time, I want to do it right, hence all of the questions.

al, in all my 5 almost 6 years in my job, meeting almost 100 construction contractor teams and all of the maintenance personnel, not the janitors, on campus, I have only met one woman that worked in the trades and she worked on light fixtures.

Boanerges1, might the redhead argue with your assessment of yourself? I hope I can recognize the next time I meet an interesting guy. I can name a few that I've passed over the years because of mine own issues.

Robin, such a wonderful story. I am so glad you found each other. Felicitations.

Kim, my quest here was to find out what is meant when people tell me that men need to be needed. There are some excellent answers here, and all have told me what I needed to know. I like James' sentence, too. And isn't laughter fun. There was a guy, once, who made me giggle, which is not a natural state of affairs for me. Unfortunately, I met him as I was exiting the military to go live with my boyfriend. And I can't remember his name.

OB, maybe not the reason altering hormones of youth, but the reason altering hormones of menopause. I get a wry smile when I read the description of your friend because that is me. :/ Or has been, anyway. I am venturing out, though seeing Jack Hanna today wasn't exactly the place to meet men. I did make Jack laugh, though, when he was signing my autograph. I am looking for the little niches of liberalness on campus as a starting point and plan to branch out from there. And yes, the boobs will be prominent. Now, I'm off to practice the hair flip and laugh. Thanks.
Seriously, you and Jack looked awesome together, he is one handsome animal um... er.... handler.... have fun with the... um.. er... bonoboobs.
Phyllis a man who needs to be needed doesn't need a girlfriend ; he needs a mom.
OB, he kept talking about his wife. ~yawn~

Kim, I just don't get the insecurity there, "needing" to be needed. Well, actually I do, but it's not something that anyone besides him can fix. The insecurity would crash the relationship and smash it into many tiny pieces.
Well, for what it's worth, the only relationships worth a flip, whether it be between lovers or friends, are honest relationships. It is honesty that builds the trust; it is honesty that builds the love; it is honesty that builds the lasting bond. Settling for anything less is to deny the purity of the meaningful in the exchange.
As far as wanting to feel 'needed', well, I've never had that problem, although I do see it on prominent display out there in the world. For me, wanting to feel needed takes a seat way in the back, and up front, first in line, as a matter of fact, is my need to feel understood.
ewwwwww.... we have a similar theme going here.
In my mind I have an open relationship, but in reality I am married a man who has yet to say "don't do that."
This works for me.

I like your style....
Dear Phyllis, I'm not going to be one to ask about relationships. I got married rather late in life and he was a total surprise. Not what I was dreaming or expecting, but I guess that's hat happens. We're coming up on our 30th next month, but it hasn't all been groovy (what relationship of 30 years would be? ). BTW That old professor freaks me out. What's he up to, telling you to get a makeover? And I hate Jiffy Lube ever since they left oil dripping all over the bottom of my car after an oil change. I ended up going to the Honda dealer because I thought I had a huge oil leak! And I think some of the biggest freaks end up going to church for pick ups, so your best bet is to be yourself. You're a lovely person just the way you are!
[r] J-P! I read a wonderful book long ago entitled "Do I Have To Give Up Me To Be Loved By You?" The title says it all. I think I have always feared 'yes', I would have to. Sigh. The authors write that there are 2 intentions. The intention to protect and the intention to explore. If we go with the first way too often a relationship is doomed. Nice pics. best, libby
Mornin' Phyllis -- I thought about your post often last night -- love how popular it is!
It's funny to read so many different thoughts on this : )
No brothers-in law available, sorry, and the one brother, well, I wouldn't introduce you to him.
I like you.
(I like him too, but...)
...and a thought about carpenters, or anyone who can calculate and put together a plumb building (the calculating ability part is crucial here...) ?
Very capable, delicious hands.
Just sayin'....
(and showing my own bias.)
: )
@Kim, I married someone wo still can make me laugh out loud, but our marriage could not sustain other , heavy difficulty.
As for your own marital experiences, just think of the joy those lovely kids of yours still bring you and always have.....
:)
"who" not "wo."
Sheesh!
@Kim: First ten seconds of the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkM7MYug38

Illustrates the point to a tee.

:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QFu8SD4sqE

one of my favorite songs.
Just Phyllis, thanks for sharing your voyage and discoveries. Lyle.

Rated.
Steve, I too have a need to be understood, and I think we all do. Could the problem be that we're afraid to show it? I'm still pondering the why of this advice I've been given, why do some people need to be needed as a way of being loved, but dishonestly needing someone just to keep them would never work. The need and the needy one have to mesh.

Green Monkey, he's never said don't do that? How wonderful. My life taught me to seek out the dictatorial ones and I kept trying to prove to them that they didn't have to boss me around. Ugh.

ccdarling, thank you, and I think 30 years may have given you some insight. "Not what I was dreaming or expecting" is sage advice to not narrow my field too much. Good advice there. Poor JiffyLube, ending up in the comments. They do get some bad workers, though.

Libby, I've always ended up giving up "me" in romance, which means it never works. So this time will be thought out and not rushed. This guy will be discussed here and with my counselor to make sure I'm not screwing up again.

JT, aren't these some great thoughts! I wish I had known all of you 30 years ago when I was starting out. And I did date a carpenter around that time, so I'm totally with you on the hands thing. Too bad about your brother. ;)

Hi PW! I love that movie.

Daisy, you made me laugh! That need I know how to do! It's the other one I'm having issues with.
I do feel guilty saying that about my brother -- he's a very good guy. He's just not so great in relationships, got a little messed around with in the military ages ago and it occurs to me that he has the male version about women to what you've been writing about here.
ok, letting up on the hug now. wow , a long one...
ay! reading all these brilliant women's opinions of men
makes me wish i hadn't been born a male. Yet then again
i wouldn't want to be a girl, cuz then i'd have to deal with all these guys!
and their shenanigans and utter lack of suave.
A man needs suave.
But for it to be real suave, he must love women.
He must be a man raised by women.
~
ok time for a huge insight here i think.
men see women two dimensionally on tv, movies , in magazines, etc,
in provocative poses , where, because they are 2d and not actually
'there',
our eyes are free to roam at will , rather letcherously.
This tends to bleed into our dealings with real 3d women.
Men have always been first and foremost VISUAL creatures.
We had to be! Evolutionarily! We had to spot the carniverous
savage saber tooth tiger coming at us, across the savannah!
Women are tactile.
It is too bad we had to leave the savannah, some say.
Well, here we are in office corridors, and there are not many
tigers around. Yet Evolution left us with these
eyes of ours.

Oh i never do that in 3d! i am scared to look. unless, heh,
well, she doesnt know i am looking.
But women always know what you are doing. So better not to.
JT, my best to your brother. Hope he can work through & find someone.

James, women are visual, too. They had to avoid predators & gather foodstuffs. Tactile would help with the gathering, wouldn't it. So we came by it honestly.
I really enjoyed reading this! I've heard and read many times "appreciation is key" with men. I know what you mean about handling everything yourself! It has been my experience that not all men can handle complete honesty -- but then again, the ones worth keeping have no problem with it. Just have a very clear vision of the type of person you would like (write him down) and he will appear - poof! magic! :-)
Pavanne, Thanks for the comment! And thinks for the reminder about the list. I can start that on paper today. I've been rumbling one around in my head for a while.
I would prefer to find a guy that thinks it’s the height of fun to vacuum and dust; I know they’re out there.

I think you have to acknowledge it's love you're looking for, not a person or a carpenter or a housekeeper. so long as you don't let yourself feel a need for someone else, it's difficult going. I wouldn't let myself feel anything close to vulnerability, although I wanted to be in a relationship so much. eventually I let myself and yup, then the frog kissing commenced. there's no avoiding the process.

Isuddenly found my husband and it all happened so quickly, I still can't believe we did some of the things we did. he wasn't what I would have looked for, if I had made a list. and he doesn't dust. he's really bad at all those sorts of things.. he literally can't see dust and barely sees dirt or the mess he's in the middle of or even what he makes or anything else out of his sphere and that sphere of his is very specific and small. I suspect I'm in there somewhere. :)
25 years ago I needed a man to treat me with kindness and think my intelligence was hot. I met him and was intelligent enough to marry him. Thank my lucky stars!
Foolish Monkey, it is love. I just wonder if I have the capacity to recognize it. Lord knows I've skipped a bunch of guys that could have worked out. Or maybe not. Very few that I clicked with.

Louisa, congrats on 25 years! Way to go!
Pffft, my Sweetheart fell for me because he knew I did not "need" him. However, once I also fell for him, it was very easy to find those "needs". But, he was also totally not my "type". Turns out, I was always looking for that alpha male (kind of like ManTalkNow) when what I really needed was a calm, patient, non-threatening non-alpha who was secure enough NOT to be intimidated or worried by my appearance of power. Now we need each other in all the right ways. Just keep being you and be open to new and different types of men :-)
How do I need a man ? - When you strip away all of the stereotyping and assumed roles for a man - then this question is thought provoking.

Mine would be when his qualities outshone any of his skills.
Kellylark, that is exactly what I was looking for in an answer. A relationship shouldn't be based on a fake "need", which is what my friends were telling me to do.

Chloe, I hope some wonderful men read your answer.

Prykke, didn't you know that married men live longer than single men. Marriage shortens a woman's life, however, so thank you for doing some poor woman a favor and not shortening her life with your presence.
This idea of the "whole, honest self" is simply a Western, cultural delusion. If we could really be as " stong and independent" as Feminists would like, there would be no need for an opposite sex at all. The more like men that women become , the more boring they become.. It is hard to imagine that they are happier for it. And there was a time when "love" was considered to be a good thing. Now its a fishes bicycle.
Feminism doesn't mean women become like men.
Such delusion.
It only means we're not sitting at home staring out a window while waiting for some husband to give us our allowance to go 'buy something pretty."
Independent women scare little insecure men, makes it easier to get them out of the way.
Love still is a good thing.
That's different than a woman stroking a male's ego by diminishing her shine.
That's just sad.
Single, 48, not dating, don't want to. Did the marriage thing...twice. Both cheated one abused. Learned to love myself more to realize didn't need a man to make me complete because I was not broken or incomplete! Found a happiness I didn't have in relationships. Funny thing is married men live longer than single men and single women live longer than married women. What does that tell you? lol Great Post! Rated!
Prykke, why do men need to be "cornered"? I thought we were supposed to chase them until we let them catch us. :)

Shawn, whole , honest self means that we live as ourselves to our fullest potential, not that we don't need other people in our lives. Perhaps you should re-think, and try getting to know some strong, honest women. Not the ones that go about screaming that they are a feminist, but the ones that live it.

JT, well said. Women shouldn't be any different than men in what we expect to receive out of life, and it's a sad man that expects to be catered to as his right.

Prykke, yes, I've noticed that about you.

Gypsy, very glad that life is now working out for you! I find that statistic fascinating, too. Thanks for stopping by.
Prykke, your issues are showing. I never said I wanted to live without a man. I would love to have that companionship. But, due to circumstances such as a lower birth rate and survival rate for males, I have found that I can live without a man.

So, is Scientific American a neutral enough source for you to accept as proof of the "claim" that women live longer?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-women-live-longer

As to the rest, I'm sorry if life isn't turning out as you planned. It happens that way for just about everyone. But I have spent a lot of time getting to this point in my life, where I know inside myself that I am strong and capable and can fend for myself. I don't see all men as fiends, I see them as unavailable. This blog was written as a question to be answered regarding the dance we do between the sexes. Nothing more than that. Perhaps you can look at it less jaundicedly? If not, I don't know what to say to you to make you feel better.

Oh yeah, all those things you say that men have done for us- they had to "do" for women because they kept women as prisoners. Think about it. No one person has the right to tell another person that they are incapable because of their gender.

And speaking of medical advances, who really invented the x-ray? It wasn't a man.
things are so different today phyllis..galpals and guypals, whatnot.
they nicely fill the void between SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS.
a guy/gal-pal phone or email session will help you get your
bearings. Men know zip about women.
Women ? about men ? hardly more.
This is due to thousands of yrs of idiotic stereotypical roles.
Which in the blazing light of the 21st century seem silly.
We got much to learn about each other.
Thank goodness we are hardwired to enjoy the process.
James, the voice of reason. It's all about accepting what is, once we've figured that out, instead of ranting and wishing for something impossible. Humans have a lot of growth left to do.
I'm closing comments. An anonymous blogger named Editor's Pryyke (very clever, eh) has decided that I need schooled. I disagree, and since Open Salon is exceedingly difficult to navigate at this time my only recourse is to close comments. I hope you have enjoyed the blog and the discussions.

My new blog is located at Phyllis' Blog at Our Salon
Mr. Prykke seems to have disappeared, so comments are open again. I've enjoyed re-reading the comments here, though it's weird reading mine own pontifications. I still no man in my life, but I am getting more confident at interpersonal relations, which is progress.