Well...Stud...I am 73...and have been an incurable optimist for more years than I care to mention. And I am still not paying a price…unless a fairly happy, rewarding, and interesting existence is a penalty.

Of course, you have the health problem so that may impact on your vision. Me…all I have to worry about is a faulty heart that needs pacing 100% of the time…and possible return of the cancer. Except for those two things…and the epilepsy that was just diagnosed, I am in perfect health.

And as for “the silver lining”…well, when the doctor told me the tumor was malignant, my first thought was delight that I would be able to write the essay about marijuana use during therapy from a hands-on perspective.

For me, life is good.

I wish it were for you also.

Then you would see the benefit.

Frank-

I see benefits in my life, of course. I have an amazing wonderful family. I'm not struggling financially (mostly thanks to that family's help), and my health is as good as can be expected under the circumstances. But, I also know that I could lose any of these at any moment, so I'm realistic in the fact that, while I'm doing relatively well now, that may not be the case tomorrow. I just have to wonder, what it would take for someone who is an incurable optimist to accept the fact that, while things are good today, they may be worse tomorrow. And, if you CAN accept that, how can you be happy about it?

Of course that's purely rhetorical

Here's the silver lining that, as an obvious pessimist, you've overlooked, Placebo:

If these people didn't exist, what would we contrast ourselves to? And think of the alternative: Everyone thinking that everything portends The End. Would that be better? Let the sheep enjoy their blissful ignorance.

#2-

True. I suppose there is some sadistic glee in knowing that, when their world crumbles to the ground when they aren't prepared, that I will be able to gloat...Hell, I've been doing that for MONTHS regarding "Health Care" and I still get a kick out of reminding people that I knew this would happen the moment people started talking about "health care"

Stud,
2009 has crushed me. I refuse to use superlatives ever again due to the horror of this year. As the "Man, Leader, Commander and Godfather" of this family I keep a positive attitude for everyone. It is my responsibility to lift the moral and bouy the many family members who depend on me.

So I'm a public optimist and a private pain filled wretch who contemplates suicide each day.

Rutilus-

But, if I know you as well as I believe I do (and yes this is just an opinion), I would guess that you have learned to temper your optimism with reality to your family and not give them unrealistic expectations. THAT is what I am talking about. Those who believe that EVERYTHING will ALWAYS be okay or all right

I try to be like that every day, but I also know when to be realistic . . . its hard sometimes. If I'm in a negative situation, I acknowledge it and try to find two things about it that I can change (or improve) if that is just not possible, I just suck it up and deal. Thats all we can do, really.

I use humor and naughty topics as coping methods, hey, it could be worse!

LadyMik0-

You don't seem like the uncurable optimist type. You sure as hell weren't very optimistic when the hubby and dog ate your brownies ice cream the other night! ;-)

Place, I think it is an ability with those people to exercise the skill of "finding joy" in day to day life. These bits of joy are amplified to a mightier status than the problems. It is a discipline that some folks have. Also, many people in the middle age range may have inherited the optomism from their Fathers and Mothers, who lived through the depression and served in WWII. These were times of unbearable grief and weight for many Americans who, after having survived those times, could never again sweat the small stuff..........everyday under a roof was a gift....

Be well this season,
G

Well, as a potential optimist (and I wasn't always that way), I came to learn that feeling "doom & gloom" all the time was no good for me, mentally.
I like to think there is something good to look forward too, but I don't hang all my hopes on any one "dream."
Looking on the bright side can help when you are faced with an un-changeable situation (as in something that has already happened and only time travel could change things).
I am sure there are also studies somewhere that show wallowing in depression is harmful.
Not to worry though, I assure you I have ZERO unrealistic expectations.
;-)

When I was diagnosed with cancer this year, I decided that the one thing I could control was my attitude. I expected to undergo the most extreme treatments, but through each step of the process, I was mindful of how much I had to be grateful for: I was otherwise healthy; the cancer had some unusual features that worked in my favor; the bilateral mastectomy in February got everything. Ultimately I didn't need chemo or radiation--although before I knew I wouldn't need chemo, I was concerned about it . . . but I would NOT let fear eat away at me.

I dodged a big bullet this year, and in no way do I think my positive attitude had a damned thing to do with it. It was simply the only way for me to approach the situation; controlling my attitude allowed me to control SOMETHING. I don't think I was unrealistically positive, but I wasn't willing to give in to fear or depression. I did my research, I made good decisions, and I focused on a favorable outcome.

I may strike some as a Pollyanna . . . but I think I'm a tough motherfucker. ;-)

I think you are great, Susan!

Good luck with things.

I went through mine back in 1996 (I think)...and all seems to be going swimmingly today. I'll let tomorrow worry about tomorrow. Too many things to do today.

As a certified pessimist, I'm with you all the way. Not every cloud has a silver lining -- mushroom clouds for instance.
R

If you are going to mention studies around here, you need to say from where or give us a link.
I disagree and think that people find what they expect in many ways.

...having unrealistically positive expectations DOES in fact lead to a greater sink into disappointment and even depression, when expectations are not met.

I am an incurable optimist. Perhaps the key in your quote (above)is "unrealistically"? Who's to say what's unrealistic? And who is it unrealistic to? When I lost everything I owned, including my house and car to divorce and had debt past my ears, I didn't sink into depression. I vowed that I'd increase my income tenfold and dig out of the hole even as a single mom. Everyone told me that was unrealistic -- until I did it. You can't DO anything if you don't believe you can.

I've probably had more than one person's share of "bad stuff" in my life. It doesn't depress me. Never has. No matter what happened, abuse, alcoholic spouse, ugly divorce, single mom, incurable disease... I still live in a land of opportunity. Even the poorest among us still has it better than a child born in Africa today. It's all perspective.

Life has two sides to it; the good and the bad. One does not negate the other. Many people can't (or won't?) see the good stuff when they're experiencing bad stuff. They become consumed with woe and self misery. To me, that's far too self indulgent. There's always someone worse off than me.

So, when there's bad stuff happening, I focus on the good all the more. The people I love, the things I'm grateful for. Everything is temporary - including the good, the bad - and even life itself. One day I won't be here anymore. Might as well use the time I have in the best way I can.

Does that answer your question any? Sorry for writing a freaking book. You asked. lol.

Rant on, boomer!
Sounds good to me!
:-)

When it comes to sickness, death or acts of God, I leave it to the 'courage' of the individual. In my personal experience, losing loved ones to cancer or other sickness hurts forever. Personally, I would like the love and kindness--note I did not use the word support--of loved ones when I am sick. But if a "doctor" tells me, "YOU CAN FIGHT THIS," I will pull my 38 from under my hospital bed pillow and shoot him in the face.

Rated.

Gary-

It's one thing to find the joy in life. It's another thing to believe that the things you find joyful in life are going to be joyful to others. For example, those people who (mistakenly) believe that insurance reform is going to be the magical panacea for all our "health care" woes, when in fact, insurance has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Health Care. A person who is disabled is going to be disabled, whether they have insurance or not, a person who is terminally ill is going to be so, whether they have insurance or not, because there is no work being done to CURE DISEASE and relieve suffering. And for those people who ARE going to benefit from insurance reform to tell those who are not going to benefit from insurance reform that everything is awesome and good and well is just completely and utterly bullshit.

spotted-

It's one thing to be "doom and gloom all the time". It's something completely different to be realistic and say "well, "X" may be good for you, but "X" is not going to be good for me, so don't tell me that "X" is some miracle solution to EVERYONE'S problems"

Susan-

It's one thing to be realistic and say "I'm going to get through this, come hell or high water", it's another thing to say "This is going to be easy, and everything will be fine after I get through this", THAT is the incurable optimism I'm referring to.

John B-

Somehow, I figured you'd understand this one :-) Though I wouldn't say you're a pessimist, I'd say you're a realist with a sardonic wit :-)

O'stephanie-

Do they really find that they get what they expect? If that's the case, then why is everyone so enraged that insurance reform has gone the way it has? I would argue that they wouldn't be enraged if they had known this was what was to be expected. I KNEW this is what was to be expected, so I'm not outraged. I'm disappointed, but not surprised in the least.

TheRantingBoomer-

The way I see it, too many people are being self indulgent by looking too much at the GOOD in life, and not focusing on the bad in life. We live in an "it can't/won't happen to me" world, where scraps of paper and ink have become FAR more valuable than life itself. All of a sudden, the bankruptcy court judge has become a more frightening idea than the Grim Reaper. I don't know, maybe MY expectations are unrealistic, but I swear, when people deal with chronic long term critical issues as I have, it's hard to be even the slightest bit compassionate over someone who is going broke because they didn't prepare for an unexpected out of the blue cancer diagnosis.

Thoth-

You and me both, man! I may need to borrow that .38 some day! LOL

Bonnie-

There's a difference between having a positive attitude toward acheiving a goal, and believing that everything is okay or all right for everyone in the world, just because it might be okay or all right for you, on a given day. But, I wonder whether that kind of attitude won't lead to a complete obliteration of that attitude when something completely life changing and unexpected comes along like a terminal illness? Are you going to say "everything is okay, I'm all right" when you learn you have 6 months (or 5 years as I have) to live?

The way I see it, too many people are being self indulgent by looking too much at the GOOD in life, and not focusing on the bad in life. We live in an "it can't/won't happen to me" world...

Ah, but you're talking the grasshopper and the ant, perhaps? The people who party on (ie; good) and don't plan for a rainy day (ie; bad)? That's not what I'm talking about. I don't look at the "good" as self indulgently taking care of my wants today at the cost of possible future needs. I look at the "good" as in the things I do have, regardless of what I don't have. I have a roof over my head, family that loves me, food to eat daily, a computer with Internet connection. Know how many people in the world don't have those? Ever seen how people in Africa and Ethiopia live? I can't walk around with a sour face and disposition knowing how much more I have than so many in this world. :)

LMAO!

It's all about balance.

The Ranting Boomer- Okay, let me put it to you this way. Sure, you have all those things. A lot of people have all those things, but how many people who have all those things would give up those things, at the drop of a hat, without a second thought, if it meant saving their life in exchange for those things? From the way people talk today, it doesn't sound like ANYONE is willing to give up those things to have life, security and peace of mind, otherwise, from my point of view, they wouldn't HAVE them to begin with. Take, for example, in the example of health care. Why are we worrying about giving the unemployed and homeless insurance, when we SHOULD be worried about giving them jobs and homes? And how many people would sacrifice their insurance and take better care of themself so they don't need insurance, so they can HAVE that house and job? People's priorities are screwed up, and they believe it's perfectly okay to have backward priorities, because they don't believe anything negative will happen to them,

LadyMiko-

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Bonnie-

Bonnie, I think my point is that the true incurable optimist doesn't believe that "facts are facts", the true incurable optimist believes that, no matter what the situation, so long as you enter into that situation with a smile on your face, everything is hunky dorey. An incurable optimist would be sitting in that car, with the broken femur, and be saying "well at least it wasn't my spine" neve mind the fact that the femur might not be able to be fixed and the person is still not able to walk, but for a different reason. In other words, a broken femur CAN Be as bad as a broken spine in the wrong situation, but people aren't willing to aknowledge that. Trauma is trauma, the level of trauma is irrelevant, and the incurable optimist finds ways to, often irrationally, rate one trauma over another without looking at the long term consequences, such as, if your femur is broken in 5 places, or BOTH femurs are broken, the legs might need to be amputated, and therefore, you might as well have broken your spine, cause what's the difference, the effect is the same

Silver lining around every cloud? I am an optimist, but I still get scared, pissed off and anxious. But I'm still an optimist, or at least I like to think I am. (Though sometimes at work I seem to complain about stupid projects and clients, not particularly optimistic of me.) I don't like the idea of being a pessimist. For me it's a lousy way to live. Being a pessimist feels crappy. For me. I want to feel hopeful, and when there's no hope, accept the grief. Is that looking for a silver lining? I don't think being an optimist means always feeling happy.

You seem to have hit a nerve here.

Polly-

What you describe sounds more like a Realist to me, rather than an incurable optimist who HAS to find something good about everything just to keep up their own facade of everything in the world being perfect.

Bonnie-

Fair enough. But that's a far cry from the type of person I'm talking about who, for example, want to try to save this insurance reform bill, and build on it, rather than scrapping it. Believe it or not, doing something CAN BE worse than doing nothing, and right now, the status quo looks pretty good, so why ruin it by trying to grasp onto invisible straws, such as the belief that we can build on this piece of shit later, when, in fact, reality says we won't. We will accept this bill when it passes, and move onto the next thing in the priority list, and in a year, forget that things were ever as bad as they seem now

I think it's a balance thing. Negative things can be paralyzing, and yet sometimes there's reason to proceed ahead, for partial victories, because there's no other choice, or because even full victory is possible if one just tries. It's a defense against self-fulfilling prophecy. But you're right, it's not a cure-all, and sometimes there are messages people need to hear. Whether they need it depends on whether they are pointed too high or too low in their expectations...

Expect the worst but hope for the best, or maybe something in between.

Explanation in a nutshell: Sure it could go to hell tomorrow so you had better fully enjoy today. Pretty simple really.

Kent-

I wonder if it has more to do with expectations or perspective? At least in so much as perspective helps to shape our expectations. For example, running with the example of Health Care, since that is what I was referring to here, someone who is perfectly healthy and remains so, and is expected to live into their 80's and die peacefully in their sleep will have different expectations than someone who is terminally ill. And the people who do live the health priveledged life have NO desire to take into consideration the perspective, and therefore the expectations of the terminally ill person, so the two perspectives obviously aren't going to make sense to one another I think.

Peter-

At this rate, for some of us, it's a matter of "hope for the best and expect you survive (while watching everyone else get rich)"

Jessica-

"Enjoy today cause it all could go to hell tomorrow" is a far cry from "Life is good for me, so it must be good for everyone...and since it must be good for everyone, I only need to worry about myself" which I'm talking about

What you describe sounds more like a Realist to me, rather than an incurable optimist who HAS to find something good about everything just to keep up their own facade of everything in the world being perfect...

Sounds to me like you have your own opinion of what an incurable optimist is, even though you're not one. Kind of like a man trying to define what it's like to be a women (or vice verse) or a white person trying to define what it's like to be brown (or vice verse).

I do not "have to" find something good in everything - some things just suck. Some people do, too. I do not feel any need to keep up a facade about everything in the world being perfect. It's not. Never will be. I'm an incurable optimist and so far, your generalizations are completely out in left field. Not even close. ;)

Greeting Placebo. I'm kind of with Aspisa. Bubbling optimists get on my nerves too but from a philosophic point of view, what are you expecting?

If, given that you were destined to be born in the latter part of the last century, there's a big chance you might have been born into the almost inconceivable hunger, poverty and danger that beset so many others. You weren't. Some grounds for optimism are that you're able to post well-crafted articles to an interested audience, instead of struggling for physical survival.

My favorite quote is the Dickens paragraph that begins A Tale of Two Cities:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, ... like the present..."

By nature I tend to the pessimistic. Thanks to education and enough enlightened friends, I believe that pessimism is too self-centred and narrow. So I reckon you should ask yourself, in which society and in which historical period would there NOT be grounds for chronic pessimism. If you can't think of one, then you might ponder why you should squander so much that the accident of life has bestowed on you.

None of us asked for this; we just wound up here. Improve what you can; don't beat yourself up for all the stuff you can't. None of us can. That doesn't make it a pointless existence.

And while perpetually cheery types are plenty irritating, gloomy types aren't much better.

living well is the best revenge? :)

I have a vague idea that I read somewhere that optimists live longer, but I can't document it. Anyway, being a confirmed pessimist, I wouldn't know. I always have low expectations, so at least I avoid much disappointment.

Merry Christmas, Studman! Grab your pleasures where you can find them.

Abrawang-

What am I expecting? I suppose I'm expecting, or at least hoping that people will look at the world outside of their own sphere of influence.

To run with the Dickens analogy, take Scrooge vs Tiny Tim vs Bob Crachett. Three extremes. Scrooge was the incurable pessimist at the beginning, Tiny Tim was the incurable optimist, and Bob Cratchett was a realist who dealt with Tiny Tim's negativity when he needed to, and yet could still see the positive in Scrooge. Crachett was the realist who, while being able to keep a positive attitude, was able to aknowledge that even though his world was good and decent, not everyone's was. As everyone else has said, it is a matter of striking a balance. I certainly don't consider myself an incurable pessimist, but when people go around trying to find every excuse to say that their life is wonderful, so everyone else's must be, I just want to throttle those people

Norwonk-

Being a confirmed pessimist is just as bad s being an incurable optimist. Try being a realist for once.

Ranting Boomer-

Of course I have my own definition of "incurable optimist". Everyone has their own definition of everything. For the purposes of this discussion, I should have said "People who want to salvage onto this health care bill, despite the obvious fact that it will do more harm than good for some of us, but they don't care, because it will do good for them"

Studman - thesis and antithesis. Can we even appreciate adversity without opportunity, fun without boredom, pessimism without optimism?

My wife and I are polar opposites when it comes to our outlook on life. She’s a stone cold realist that loves to challenge people and I’m one of your incurable optimists who avoids dissention any way I can. Yet, we have an incredible marriage that truly benefits from our polarity differences.

I think humanity in general is much the same way, needing opposites to balance the whole.

Boomer-

you don't seem like the incurable optimist type at all. You've got just the right amount of cynicism and skepticism to realize thaat not everything is hunky dorey in the world, even if it is hunky dorey in your world

Cat?-

Welcome :-) I can't say I 'Get it", but, hey if it works for you, go for it I guess

I will attempt an answer. Of course, it is just my perspective. I don't consider myself an optimist or a pessimist.

I don't believe in death. To me, there is no true death. The mystery is taken out of it for me. So, it all comes down to feelings then. When I see the potential for hazards, like in your example you actually say potential death, I deal with the feelings of that. I don't pretend it away, I deal with the feelings of that. I know the reality of not doing that, it will break you or kill you one way or another and you will get a chance to come back to try again if you so choose. So, if there is no death, there is really nothing to fear but fear itself. Truly.

In my view, most people are really just walking around afraid to feel. They are usually "optimists" to a point where they delude themselves as to the true nature of reality or "pessimists" to the true nature of reality. What is at the center is reality. Love.

This is how it has worked for me.

Sparking-

Perhaps it IS a factor of the fear of the unknown. The eternal, incurable optimist being afraid of feeling negative, and the eternal incurable pessimist afraid of feeling positive, and both afraid of having to accept and negotiate the consequences of any attempt at feeling the extreme which they are not used to.

Oddly enough, now that you mention that. perhaps that is why politics is so heavily dominated by the extremes of ideology (don't ask me where that analysis came from LOL)

Actually, I'm kind of a realistic optimist. I'm completely naive about people's intentions, so I tend to take everyone at face value. But I don't have much faith in humanity as a whole.

Still: I get up every day, and most days I think it's part of my job to leave the world better than I found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FaXmRWXLjM

thank you Frank.

I prefer to avoid labels, since one man's upside can often be another's loss. Like in markets, sometimes.
It's the same with a lot of stuff. The obvious bores me and I like to make my own judgments.
But, there are some things in life where there simply isn't an upside. Some things just suck. And it annoying as hell if anyone even starts trying to discuss the upside of your personal catastrophe. So, yes.

I think I'm a very cynical optimist. I don't know any of these incurable optimists of which you speak. Even the MOST optimistic people I know - and there's usually some profound religious faith involved - sometimes want to share a sneaky laugh at the expense of other's, or a raised eyebrow at some untoward behaviour. Some commisseration against the folly of human beings, especially close friends and family members.

I'm optimistic in the local and pessimistic in the global?
The only people I see embodying your description are on TV. And although I believe in them with all my might, my doctor tells me they aren't real. Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman is not real?! Michael Landon is not an angel!?
Good post and discussion, hon. I hope you had a swell time today!

Frank-

Wanting to and trying to leave the world a better place are good things. But, some people seem to be of the opinion that the world doesn't need improvement, because they are so blind by the good in their life that they can't or won't see the bad in anyone else's life that might need improvement that you could help with, does that make sense?

Skeletn-

brilliant!

Nick-

Exactly. And I'm trying to get to the root of the mindset of those people who believe that, because THEIR world is good, that THE world is good.

aim-

You want to see examples of what I'm referring to. Just look around OS, and look at how many people are saying "This health care bill sucks, but..."

To which I say. "No. Stop. No 'but'. it just sucks, and no amount of spin is going to change the fact that a MINIMUM of 20% of the population, the non-institutionalized disabled, are NOT going to be helped by ANY form of insurance, because we are disabled, or chronically ill, or terminally ill as the case may be, whether we have insurance or not, and whether we're paying $10,000 or $1M, because no matter how much we pay, there isn't a TREATMENT TO PAY FOR...so go take your money and have a good life and leave us to die in peace asshats!"

I'm a cynical realist. Overly optimistic people irritate me as much as overly pessimistic people do.

MrsR-

Most PEOPLE irritate me, because their outlook, be it overly positive or overly negative, or somewhere in the middle, generally is based on false impressions and false perceptions, so their outlook is mostly manufactured based on what they WANT TO see, not what IS the reality of the situation