Procopius

Procopius
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Rockford, Illinois, USA
Birthday
February 05
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I'm a regular middle aged guy, living in a regular middle class neighborhood, in a regular middle-sized community in the middle of America. I am an expatriate Texan transplanted to the Midwest, and wondering how I got here, and where I'm headed.

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Salon.com
Editor’s Pick
MARCH 3, 2011 5:15PM

Geographic Disconnects in the Movies

Rate: 16 Flag

One of the little things about the movies that bothers me is the fact that Hollywood seems to believe that virtually every noteworthy event that took place in the 19th century American West happened either in the deserts of the Southwest, or in the shadow of the highest peaks of the Rockies and Sierras.  I thought of this recently after the release of the new version of “True Grit.”  For the two or three people in America who don’t know the story, “True Grit” is about a retired marshal in Fort Smith, Arkansas, who is hired by a young girl to find her father’s killer.  The killer is with a gang of outlaws in the Indian Territory of what is now Oklahoma. 

Here is a picture taken from the original “True Grit” starring John Wayne:

movies true grit 1969

 

And here’s one from the remake starring Jeff Bridges and Matt Damon:

true grit 2010

 Nice mountains in the background, but is that Oklahoma?

I challenge anyone to find a place in Oklahoma that looks like either of these pictures.  For the record, the filmmakers could have found some very lovely locales in Oklahoma, even a few with nearly mountainous scenery.  Alas, they did not try.

movies oklahoma mtn

 Southwest Oklahoma's Wichita Mountains

It’s always been that way.  Consider the great John Ford classic, “The Searchers”, in which John Wayne engages in a quest to retrieve his kidnapped niece from the Comanche Indians.  Readers of my blog will know that I am a bit of an amateur historian when it comes to the study of the Comanche.  Their 19th century domicile extended from southeastern Colorado to central Texas.  In “The Searchers”, John Wayne looks for his niece in country that looks an awful lot like Utah’s Monument Valley:

movie searchers

Ain’t no place in Texas that looks like that.

How about another classic western?  One of the most entertaining movies of all time is surely “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”.   It’s certainly one of my favorites.  You may recall the character played by Katherine Ross.  Her name is Etta, and she is based on an historical figure named Etta Place.  She was possibly a part-time school teacher, and almost certainly a part-time prostitute, although the exact location where she sold her wares is uncertain.  She lived in several different cities throughout the west.  By 1900, after she had taken up with Butch Cassidy's Hole in the Wall Gang, she was living in Texas, although her exact location is in dispute, with some saying San Antonio and others Fort Worth. 

 

movies etta and sundance

Etta Place and Harry Longabaugh, a.k.a. the Sundance Kid, in a photo taken shortly before their departure for South America in 1901.  Her remarkable physical beauty is in sharp contrast to the vast majority of unfortunate women who worked as prostitutes in the Old West.

 

Here is a still shot of Etta Place’s home (on the right) from the movie:

butch cassidy

 

Here is a photo of Fort Worth taken around 1900, when the story of “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid” takes place:

 

movies ft worth 1900

The building in the left foreground is a women's "boarding house" located in what was then known as Hell's Half Acre.  "Boarding house" is a euphamism intended to make less obvious the carnal commerce that took place within its walls.  Etta Place would likely have lived in a building very similar to the one pictured here.  The small row houses next to the boarding house are "cribs", where older, sickly, or less attractive young women who were denied residence in the boarding houses were forced to live and ply their trade for as little as 25 cents per customer visit.

Next is a post card of turn of the 20th century San Antonio, another potential home of Etta Place at the time of the events from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid":

  movies san antonio

I don’t know about you, dear readers, but to me, Fort Worth and San Antonio bear very little resemblance Grafton, Utah, where the still shot from the film was taken.

I’m not suggesting that all movies that take place in a specific location must be filmed in that location.  However, I do think the movie-viewing experience is enriched when the scenery on the screen appears similar to what one would see if one were actually standing in the place where the film’s action is supposed to be taking place.

Here is a case in point:  Terrence Malick’s beautiful film from 1978, “Days of Heaven”, is set primarily in the Texas panhandle.  Most of the action of the film was actually shot in Alberta, Canada, some 1500 miles away.  Nevertheless, the Great Plains scenery in Alberta could realistically substitute for the Great Plains scenery of the Texas panhandle.

movies days of heaven

  It's not Texas, but it could be...

(Of course, one would have been hard pressed to find a ranch house in the early 20th century Texas panhandle that looked like the house in the film.  That is a post for another time…)

It’s not just films set in the West, or films taking place a hundred years or more in the past that are guilty of a geographic disconnect.  Remember “The Fugitive”, starring Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford?  Do you remember the scene in which Ford, as the fugitive, avoids near capture by making a death-defying jump off of this huge dam?

 

movies cheoah dam

Here is Ford's character in mid jump:

movies dam jump

Ford, of course, played Dr. Richard Kimble, a prominent physician in Chicago.  The entire film is set in Chicago and nearby locales in Illinois.  The dam scene, however, was filmed in the Appalachian Mountains of North Carolina.  There is virtually no resemblance between the landscapes of Illinois and the landscape of North Carolina’s mountains.  That’s not to say the movie makers could not have found a scenic spot or two in Illinois for Harrison Ford to make his great leap to freedom.    Perhaps he could have escaped among the hidden canyons of Mathiessen State Park, about 100 miles from downtown Chicago.

mathiessen

 

Another possibility would have been any of the scenic bluffs overlooking the Upper Mississippi River, such as this one at Mississippi Palisades, on the Illinois-Iowa border.  Perhaps Dr. Kimble could have taken a desperate leap off the bluff onto a passing train car below.

palisades

 

OK, that jump might not be quite as jaw-dropping as the leap off of the dam.  I also admit the scenery of John Ford’s Monument Valley is a little more camera-ready than that of the Texas or Oklahoma Panhandle.  I'm sure it would be extremely difficult to re-create Butch Cassidy's Fort Worth or San Antonio of 1900, and even if you did it perfectly, the end product would be pretty gritty and grim on the big screen.  Maybe the “True Grit” movies, whether we’re discussing the 1969 version or the 2010 version, would never have been the great hits that they are if the films had been shot in Oklahoma instead of California and Colorado.  But you never know until you try it.  And you just might win the respect of history and geography nerds like me.

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Oh, it is something one has to take with a whole handful of salt ... and having some ideas about geography and history and all that does tend to ruin historical movies for you. My daughter and I are still laughing about one, where somewhere in the 1854 west there was a cattle ranch right next to a deep-rock gold mine, and the miner's shanty had a shelf full of canned goods, and the heroine's costume had a zipper down the back -- and her ready-made new dress from the general store had a label in the neckline!
Yep...the other thing that amuses me are the wedding scenes with the bride wearing a beautiful white gown. Show me a picture of a bride from the 19th century, at least one who is not of the socially elite 1% of the population, who is wearing a white wedding gown! They didn't do it. They didn't have the means to do so.
Geographically correct or not, both versions are beautiful! But as pet peeves at the movies go, location is the least of mine...

Rated.
Alan, in the grand scheme of things, I'd have to agree with you. There is a lot more to criticize than geography!
This reminds me of my wife's first visit to my home in Texas. She was amazed that I lived in a lush, green, forest land with wide rivers and deep lakes. She told me that because of all the old westerns she saw she assumed that I lived in a badland covered with sage brush and cactus.

I use to get such a laugh when I would watch one of those old movies, supposedly taking place in Texas, and they would have towering mountains in the background.....go figure.
You're absolutely right, of course. But when we finally visited Monument Valley, I was thrilled, because I already knew it.
Torman, I've shared that laugh, too. And I always notice when the films are true to their story's location -- "Lonesome Dove" is a great example of that.

Pilgrim, I envy you -- I've yet to visit Monument Valley, depsite the fact I've visited much of the Southwest. One of these days.
My daughter (and a couple of serious fans) keep saying that someday there will be a movie or a miniseries of the Adelsverein Trilogy - and they had damn well better film it on location in the Texas Hill Country. Or something that looks very much like the Hill Country!
Sgt, I once drove through a nice little valley near Eldorado, Tx, that would be just about perfect for Adelsverein.
Hey! Try and know a few more details will you? This piece is one of those thoughts that I ---and a lot of others I'm sure--sort of have hovering in the back of our minds but never put to words. You did. And the result is fantastic. You hit it out of the park on this one sir!
Ah, yes, the "magic" of Hollywood.
Love this. Not knowing much about the American west, this is wonderful insight. (Though at least I know enough to not confuse Monument Valley for Texas!)

Reminds me a lot of when they make a movie that's supposed to take place in New York City (my stomping ground) - and it's clearly shot on a backlot. So I get so excited when I watch a TV show like "Law & Order" which is shot on the streets of New York, and I can recognize the location - not only the location, but the right location. Like one they had involving a college student who went to Columbia - and they shot it in front of Columbia.
Roger, once again your hyperbole runneth over, but thanks anyway!

Matt, I guess you could call it geographic magic.

Amy, I know exactly what you mean -- it's truly exciting to see a place you know on screen, especially when its presence there is true to the story. I have heard that a lot of urban scenes are now filmed in Toronto and Dallas, when they are supposed to represent Chicago or New York. Come on...
I know what what you mean, BUT, those could be the Ouachita Mountains in Southeastern Oklahoma. I think they wanted to be accurate for the movie. There are geologic fault-slip mountains in Oklahoma. The Ouachitas and the Arbuckles. Just drive west from Fort Smith, AK and you are in them. They formed before the Laramide Orogeny formed the Rockies. Very old, very worn. My favorite disconnect in geography is the Canadian Rockies are supposed to be Reno, NV in Shanghai Noon (Jackie Chan)
Steve, a wonderful discussion about this and I have learned a lot here! There have some movies that I don't think about the accuracy of the scenery unless I have watched the film several times and get more into the details. The Battle of the Bulge was one such movie in that it was extensively filmed in Spain.
Yet another example of why the peoople and places I build in my little mind while reading a book are so much better than the laziness of Hollywood.
And, ANY film without john wayne is a better film.

Nice job, proC.
That's odd, I do think about this sometimes when I watch movies that are obviously not genuinely set. I like that you brought attention to this. I grew up with True Grit. Loved that movie, and watched it with my kids not very long ago. I knew my daughter would relate to Mattie. I'm afraid to see the remake - how can you better the original?!
Thanks for sharing these epic places related to films that are remade and rethought over. Some work and others don't. I like this post a lot.
Sorry I'm running off at the mouth, I'm lovin' this post. I don't know if this counts but, I hate the animated movie "Spirit" because it all over the map geographically. I tried to figure out where they were geographically, and Spirit would have to have teleportation powers. Alternately, the animated movie "A Bug's Life" is probably in the Sand Hills of Nebraska. The only seeds that have alternate, rather than opposite, seed placement are Side-Oats Grama. They have Oaks along streams with sandy, deep, alluvial deposition. It's Northern Mixed Grass Prairie. Too much?
Last aside. There is a lush, glacially carved valley in the Nevada Basin and Range in the Ruby Mountains named Lamoille Canyon. I've been there. It's great. Wiki it.
The Grand Longhorn Mountains range from the Dallas/Fort Worth area to the Mexican border, south of San Antonio. For unknown reasons, the Longhorns have long been a secret to most native Texans, much less to the average tourist. Nonetheless, the skiing reportedly is excellent and is the reason Texans have dominated recent Olympic Alpine events.
I was annoyed Mel Gibson shot most of "Braveheart" in Ireland, not just because Scotland could use the work, but because a few of the Irish actors mangled the accent so badly. Not that they're bad actors - a few of them I have liked immensely in other work - but we Scots are still trying to get over that damn Irish/Canadian guy on Star Trek. Strangely the only Irish character in the movie is played by a guy from Glasgow!
One re-setting that really worked was the modern re-make of "Of Mice and Men" with Gary Sinise and John Malkovitch. The Santa Ynez valley substituted for the Salinas valley. There isn't a square inch of the real location that isn't covered in modern agriculture, whereas there is enough undeveloped land in the Santa Ynez area they could do the wonderful scenes of the harvest work with old-timey machinery and manual labor that was true to the book.
Ellen, you're absolutely correct, Oklahoma has lots of small mountain ranges, all quite scenic, that could be used in film. I actually looked at some photos of the Oklahoma Ozarks and the Arbuckle range for this post, but the Wichita mountains made a better photo. One problem with a small range like the Arbuckles is that it is too difficult to shoot a scene that does not include human touches like bridges, roads, etc.

As for "Spirit", a movie that I loved, I viewed the multiple geographic locales as trying to make the story more broadly representative of the entire West, from the mountains, to the deserts, to the plains. Certainly, the eagle's flight at the beginning of the movie, if we are to take it literally, covered well over a thousand miles!

John, that reminds me of the fact that the train scene in "Dr. Zhivago" was also filmed in Spain. However, to David Lean's credit, the scenery was a realistic interpretation of the Russian steppes in winter, so I am OK with that.

XJS & ME, ah, come on, you gotta like John Wayne in "True Grit", even if the scenery is wrong!

Jayne, the interesting thing about Mattie in the original is the fact that the actress portraying her was already in her early 20's and was the mother of a small baby. Not exactly the 14 year old contained in the book!

Stim, if you get tired of the skiing, then keep driving south on I-35 and you'll come to the great Comanche Pyramids of Waco, nearly 100 feet higher than those found in Giza (everything's bigger in Texas, you know). They are another little known treasure often ranked as the 8th wonder of the world!

GeeBee, It could have been worse -- they could have filmed the movie in the English Lake Country I suppose. Your point about "Of Mice and Men" is right on.
My parents spent much of their adult life living in the San Francisco Bay Area. They used to get so fed up with that old TV show, The Streets of San Francisco. For anyone who knew the city like they did, they'd yell at the TV when in a car chase scene, someone would turn a corner and end up thirty blocks away, or drive down a one-way street the wrong way (probably because the light was better that way).
No, ProC, I will never like john wayne.
Besides, they stuck a banana up his ass and told him to not let it fall out to teach him to walk like that.lol
Remember spaghetti westerns where they were filmed in Italy!!!
Susie, when I was a kid I hated those movies, but now I really get a kick out of them. What I find interesting about them is that they are always set in towns -- supposedly on the frontier -- which look like they have been there for hundreds of years. Of course, they really had been there for hundreds of years!
This was such an interesting post! I love the research you did. I guess to me, scenery is often like the bombshell female lead in blockbuster movies: maybe not realistic, but you need eye candy! At least for most people the landscape differences are less offensive. I'm glad you're here, though, to remind us of the reality. Thanks for a great read before bed!
Alysa, thank you -- glad you stopped by!
New Orleans' streets are not crawling with alligators, it does not sit at the mouth of the Mississippi river, the kind of jazz funerals you might run into randomly and unexpectedly are not big enough to shut down traffic any longer than an ordinary funeral procession and they're probably going to be in the ghetto and not the French Quarter, the big Mardi Gras parades do not run through the French Quarter, the Desire streetcar line was replaced by a bus in 1948, if people speak more than a smattering of French they probably learned it in school, and very few people here have Cajun accents since the Cajuns settled south and west of here. Despite being a French and Spanish colony, the city is mostly black, and after that the biggest ethnic groups are Italian, Irish, and Vietnamese. (The Vietnamese community here is HUGE, has been here for almost four decades, and almost never shows up in representations of The Big Easy.) The real native white accent here is closer to Brooklynese than anything else.

(Oh, and NO ONE talks like Dennis Quaid. No one is quite sure how he managed to mispronouce "cher" three times, in three different ways, in the same scene.)
Oh, and Storyville was closed in 1917 and bulldozed so that the Iberville Projects could be built in 1937. A NOPD officer in 1987 would never therefore respond to a crime scene "in Storyville."
Leeandra, what are you saying? That everyone in New Orleans is NOT, after all, a voodoo practicing, tarot card reading, jazz trumpet playing, Storyville streetwalking, funeral procession marching, creole speaker? Whodda thunkit?
I love your observantness! I have often wondered, but like Chi Guy said . . . wouldn't have known how to put it into words . . .
x susie...italian money and italian director (sergio leone) but filmed in spain.....
I like the Long Island Mountain Range in the background of Mitchell Field where Ben Aflack was doing his flight training in "Pearl Harbor".
I kinda laughed when John Wayne was looking at Monument Valley while supposedly looking at the Brazos River, a few miles or so from where I live. Even though we're in a drought we have lots of trees and grass and farmland. No wonder he couldn't find her, he was lost.
Johnny, you made me laugh with that "lost" comment. Glad you found this post!