It's lame enough to post it in the comments, but the above is, I hope obviously, a piece of satire.

Next up: Incest.

What is it lately with all the posts whining about not having sex with your children?

Bwahaha! Nicely said.

I kind of thought you might appreciate it, Julie. And your post on "Walker Texas Ranger" was an absolute gem.

Hi Randy. I think it might have to do with the economic situation, March madness and a feeling of loss of control.

Some of us are still loosey-goosey, despite it all.

Lea, I have to admit I was a little surprised by one of your recent comments. I inferred that you were declaring an allegiance to, as you put it, loosey-goosey writing, in the sense that you considered yourself to be that kind of writer...which you assuredly are not.

The fascists seem to be those who demand lower standards and call anathema on anyone who aspires to great writing, proper word usage, good grammar, standard spelling, and untortured syntax.

The ones who get singled out are the ones who aspire (see Emma Peel as the latest scapegoat), who are pilloried and called names.

It sucks. I read you to be saying "Can't we all just get along," but aligning yourselves with the witch hunters in the process.

I've rarely read (i.e. can't recall a single instance) a comment or post that singled out someone individually for poor grammar. I have read many comments and posts declaring others individually to be pedantic elitists and telling them to shut up and go away.

If those are the choices, I'll align myself with the pedantic elitists. I've always taken the minority view anyway, so c'est la vie.

There's a lot of intellectual dishonesty taking place (e.g. "keep Open Salon open" is a completely facetious and fatuous attack on so-called PEs).

I am so glad for your first comment because I was about to
put my foot in my mouth big time. I only know when I am
pulling someone's leg.
What really bugs me about others driving habits are those who
slow down to make a turn instead of going at it full throttle or
those who hesitate at a stop sign a split second longer than I
think is necessary. But that's just me.
Rated

I'm sorry, Randy but I am going to have to pull you over for failing to come to. a. full. stop. Assuredly, there is no suspicion that you are driving under the influence of elitism. Rated for staying in your lane and maintaining proper speed. Well written.

In the spirit of parody and satire, DakiniDancer, I wish you'd share your intended comment, with all of us knowing you had the hook in your mouth, but then spit it out.

A good writer has to be a little bit out of control, or rather, give up control and be willing to expose and embarrass himself/herself. But the real question is "Who are the Nazis? Who are the real fascists? Who are the real totalitarians who want to eradicate the 'other'?"

I'm happy to embarrass myself in servitude to the writing. I'd just rather it not be by writing your as a contraction for you are.

signed, pedantic elitist, member #237

Very funny post, Randy, and I like your comment too. I don't really care what people think of me for believing what I do because I value writing above most other things in life. And as someone who worked as a critic for quite a while, I'm used to slings and arrows.

I have never pretended to be a great writer, or even a very good writer compared to some of the top writers here, but I respect the craft enough to want to at least try my best.

If others don't, that's up to them. But attacking "serious" writers on a writing site is more than a little ironic. And everyone will be glad to hear that I'm now taking a rest from this topic since I've said all (and more) I wanted to say.

The writers I read do try their best, but small mistakes are made. There aren't copy editors to help us out there, so slippage occurs. I understand that when I read an otherwise well-written piece and personally don't care. That's where I stand. If it's major and I respect the writer, I'll PM them. But I make loads of small mistakes and at this point am ok with it.

But I don't bother reading those who don't offer up much.

Ha! The comment and indignation was just forming, I was at
the spitting stage.

And isn't my first sentence revelatory anyway?

Did I mention orgasms? I usually do.

How's that for puttin' it out there?

I think I'll always be a prescriptivist at heart, myself. And while I don't think I point out other people's mistakes in public unless they've explicitly invited it (e.g., here), my impression of people is influenced by the care they take with the language, even here on OS. This means I probably miss out on some good writing by posters who have adopted a more casual approach to spelling and punctuation and grammar and such. My loss.

Very nicely done, Randy. Rated.

Emma, I'll echo your "I have never pretended to be a great writer."

The current kerfluffle isn't about grammar Nazis, those mythical attackers.

If I have a weakness in my writing, I want to correct it. Some people point to the top of the mountain and say "Look!" That's not superiority, it's aspiration.

It's human nature to feel inferior. But inferiority isn't a pleasant state or emotion. Humans don't like to feel, or be made to feel inferior.

But the solution is not to declare that inferiority is a good thing.

But maybe that's just the editor in me. I get paid to edit and improve other's writing. That's why I don't do it here for free.

But I will jump to the defense of rational arguments for superior writing. It's just wrong to devalue superior writing. Applauding superior writing is not the same thing as devaluing someone's personhood, or even their right to write.

I just haven't seen anyone attacking individuals for loose writing. I have seen, repeatedly, people being attacked personally for suggesting that good writing is better than bad writing.

Thanks for all the comments. This was just a throwaway post, intended for a limited audience. Not that it wasn't intended to puncture a balloon or two.

traffic Nazis i call 'em, trying to impose their "rules" and safety "regulations" on all of us drivers who only want to be free to experiment in our own idion of the Interstate, our free-form take on what constitutes reasonable driving practices and what constitutes "homicidal" irresponsibility. well i for one won't abide by their narrow-minded definition of the "common good" and will continue to punctuate my driving experience with random lane changes, extreme tail-gating and the occasional waving of a hatchet out my truck window when someone cuts me off.

CYA: others' not other's.

Well done, nanatehay.

Good to see you here, Karin. Someday I'll write an "action" post instead of a reaction post.

So, can this be right? TWO Karin Rego posts in March? The sun must have come out in B.C.

Not true, Karin. I read both, and rated the latest. I'm still trying to figure out if that picture you posted was a fashion doll or a human child.

Randy:

I have missed a lot of this stuff and barely know what you are talking about. I think I may be the better for that.

Reading between the lines I would ask only one thing of the perfectionists among us (and I know quite a bit about perfectionism, said the obsessive/compulsive) and that is to cut some slack for a number of people around here who can't write well, can't spell and sometimes can't complete a good clear sentence. Yet some of those are very expert in other things that enhance this community.

Some of them are very precious people to me, have become very good friends and have contributed a great deal to our community. I am not naming names and never would but they are out there and need to be accepted for what they can bring to the table, not for what they can't.

On the other side I think that those who deride those of us who try to write well are way off base also.

But this is a big tent and there are a lot of different ways we play our respective parts here.

A little tolerance and a little TLC toward each other can reap real benefits for all of us.

Monte

Monte, again I'll state my thesis. There are few who attack or denigrate others for their lack of grammar skills or language failings.

Occasionally, someone will write a plea for higher standards, but never have I seen anyone talk about shunning or shaming anyone.

Yet, anyone who dares to say that OS includes writers who undermine their intent with a lack of clarity gets hammered. Anyone who says spelling, word choice, syntax, or grammar are an important element of good writing gets hammered on as an elitist.

It would be fairly simple to savage people's writing, my own included. That's simply not done and I'm tired of people, out of an complex of inferiority or resentment that probably goes back to grade school, trashing those who aspire to write and read good writing.

To say that the quality of someone's writing is diminished by poor spelling should not be a sin, particularly when the "saying" isn't along the lines of "Oh, if only Bill could spell or know the meaning of decimate, his writing would be so much better."

In point of fact, I suspect that the pedantic elitists would be happy, if invited, to serve as volunteer editors, not that any such invitations would be extended.

If the call for standards were mean-spirited, OS would be littered with crushed egos, again, mine included.

In short, we're not talking about intolerance and it's disgraceful to pillory people who haven't demonstrated such. No one would criticize someone for helping another to write a line of code or an html link so that it worked properly.

The implication in your comment is that I am intolerant and lacking in TLC, that I'm judgmental and filled with a sense of superiority that I want to lord over others. If I didn't "know" you better in your Open Salon persona, I would resent that.

Randy, you write: "The implication in your comment is that I am intolerant and lacking in TLC, that I'm judgmental and filled with a sense of superiority that I want to lord over others. If I didn't "know" you better in your Open Salon persona, I would resent that."

If you feel that way you should have deleted my comment and sent me a PM. But you didn't. So I will reply here.

I am floored at that comment. And I do it. It certainly doesn't sound like the Randy that I know and respect.

I actually AGREE with your post and was making a general suggestion that we cut some members some slack.

I was NOT writing about you; and how you could imply that is beyond me. I was writing about ALL perfectionists, of whom I am definitely one.

I was also writing about us ALL, including ME, cutting some slack for those who do not have writing skills, or have poor writing skills, but who do contribute to OS in their own ways.

I can't stand people here who purposely write poorly and dare anyone to say a word. There are lots of them. I don't read their work more than once.

I don't know where this feeling of being attacked came from all of a sudden but there was no personal attack intended. If I wanted to attack you personally you wouldn't have to guess. I am not shy about telling people what I think of them; but if it is negative I normally do it in a PM. And I thought that you know me well enough to know that.

You were writing about a general problem you see here, and I was responding to that problem, not to you. I have, like you, felt that some people need to learn to spell, or punctuate, or write complete sentences. But I have never voiced that opinion to them.

YOU were not in my thoughts. And attacking you was the last thing on my mind. In fact it never crossed it.

I apologize that anything I wrote could be taken that way.

You were one of my first and best friends on OS. I have been close to you from the beginning. And you DO know me better than that. At least I thought you did.

Truthfully, I am flummoxed.

Monte

Randy, respectfully I would say you need to read GordonO and some other bloggers and their comments that perhaps you haven't been privileged to. You may find some of the comments surprisingly in poor taste. I think the thing is you and others haven't been harassed by them and hopefully won't. They don't bother me at all, I do hate it for others when I stumble upon one of their comments.

Monte, please not that I said "if I DIDN'T know you" I would resent it. I do think I know you, and so I didn't resent it.

Lea Lane, and now you, have weighed in with a "can't we all just get along" meme; each of you surprised me, somewhat. The implication, or perhaps my inference, is that so-called pedantic elitists need to just quit being so anal and shut up.

Kind of Blue, thank you for the heads-up. I probably don't travel in the same circles as the OSers you mention, so I haven't seen it, though from the name you mention, I'd guess the disagreement is over more than grammar and the nastiness is the equivalent of a sucker punch = tasteless and uncalled for.

You may recall Julie Tarp's recent plaintive call for standards, where I felt compelled to jump to her defense. I don't consider it my place to correct others' grammar, so I don't. That doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.

Monte, sorry to add agita to your life. As I took your comment in the spirit it was intended, and didn't intend to scold (i.e. I didn't feel attacked), I saw no need to take it private.

Randy: I'm stunned by the rigor of your argument and its simplicity.

You said "There are few who attack or denigrate others for their lack of grammar skills or language failings." I read that and said Amen. I just haven't seen the crimes alluded to on this issue. The evidence was lacking, which is to say the facts weren't paid any attention. But that didn't stop folks from sounding off as if their accusations were true.

That word -- "true" strikes me as important here. People may truly feel abused by the putative police, but no one made the effort to give actual examples. I'm a newspaper reporter and know full well that a place like OS doesn't and shouldn't have to adhere to a Jack Webbian approach to writing. But that doesn't mean that facts, especially when making accusations, can be ignored. That's what witch hunts are made of.

The truth -- that word! -- is, OS is as civil and tolerant a place as I've seen anywhere on the net. It's got room, as many commenters have noted, for all kinds of writers. But however experimental a person may want to get, however far off the reservation he may wander, facts still matter. It's not a matter of style. It doesn't matter how you feel about them. If you're going to make accusations, especially ones that can hurt a neighbor (as opposed to some distant political figure) you need to be able to back up your accusations, or put a cork in it.

I'll leave it at that. It appears I'm the last to weigh in on this one, as I frequently am. All I intended to do was to thank you for the clarity of your thought and its expression here. It was bracing, and a very good demonstration of your point.

Rated, of course.