RicTresa

RicTresa
Location
Key Center, Washington, USA
Birthday
October 11
Title
Starving Graphic Artist & Patriot
Bio
Born 1952. ________________________________________ We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same. Carlos Castaneda ________________________________________ Because of some medical malpractice imposed on my body in 1996, a minor on the job accident left me crippled and with a rare bone disease called, Osteonecrosis. Osteo=Bone.. Necrosis=Death.. And that is what I have. ________________________________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit.. What a ride!" ________________________________________ I create all of my own graphics including some you will find on this blog, the pictures in my profile and banner are me. I use an Apple computer and wouldn't switch back to a PC for all the tea in China. ________________________________________

MARCH 11, 2009 10:21PM

Tyranny by a Predatory Bank

Rate: 26 Flag
This repost is inspired by Lisa Kern's recent blog about how Bank of America treated her so badly. I have learned that the only way to get any justice is to post, post and post again your own personal encounters and with this blog, I have. Thanks for reading. -Ric
 

 The Whole Truth, & Nothing But The Truth..

I will start this off with a short piece of background, just to try and get you up to speed about who we are and why we have gotten to this point in our old age:

I am 56 and my wife Theresa is 60 years old. I was a construction worker until January 02, 1996, when I was injured on the job. During the medical treatment I received I contacted a bone disease and became permanently disabled, no pension, not employable, with no job prospects.

My wife Theresa was and is our only source of income.

She has always worked hard, never taken a sick day, has always been a loyal employee no matter where she has worked or what she has done.

In September of 2007, she was falsely accused of a crime and fired from her job of 5 years, forcing her into a new field of employment.. One that she enjoys, as it turns out.

She became a home care worker. At first the pay was high and her hours long. Because her employer was an agency the bank that was used for payroll turned out to be US Bank, so naturally she got an account with them, (this has turned out to be the biggest mistake of our lives.) 5 months into her job, the client got ill and had to be hospitalized, putting Theresa instantly out of work.

With the help of some great friends and family, we were able to keep our heads above the water and overcome this setback. Theresa found a job through the State of Washington’s DSHS Department of Senior Sevices, where she was able to go back to school and get her Care Giver License and become employed just 10 miles from our home.

A good thing at the outset, a bad thing in the long run. Good because gasoline went really high in price, bad because the pay wasn’t nearly as good, bad because the pay was once a month and we ran out of money, 2 weeks before the end of each month. Bad because we slowly began to fall behind. Bad, because we kept US Bank as the folks to hang on to our money.

This is a true story and it has happened to my wife and I. You go through life thinking that institutions such as banks are there to serve you.. They provide a service to you and in turn, you let them use your money for investments so they can make a profit and grow.

It’s all a sweet fairy tale and in the case of US Bank, it is an out right lie.

They not only use your money for investments but when it suits them, they steal your money and when you can no longer pay.. they make criminals out of you, all the while protected under the law.

You don’t have to believe me but if you are curious enough I invite you to read my story and look at my proof and then you can wonder if you will be the next victim of these slime. -RicTresa


Which brings us up to the meat of this tale of mine, how US Bank has made criminals out of us.

In the last 2 weeks of August, (2008) we ran very low on money and Theresa made a mistake, (she did what she had to do, to make ends meet) only.. what she did wasn’t really a good thing, just a necessary thing. She wrote 4 hot checks in the hope of keeping us from floundering and going under. She was wrong, she knew she was wrong, but she had no choice. Apparently, US Bank began licking their lips knowing that we had innocently set in motion, enabled them to begin to steal all that we had from us and more.

They penalized us in the form of overdraft charges, and fees. It turns out that US Bank is no better than thieves. They rob you blind and when you complain, tell you they can because you have signed a contract agreeing to your rape.. They gleefully point out to you the fact that it is all perfectly legal, and too bad for you.

September’s paycheck arrived and we set about paying off our charges and penalties incurred from the hot checks. 4 checks written for the amounts of $22.42, $12.39, $32.39 and $34.66 for a total of, $101.86.. US Bank tacked on overdrafts and penalties totaling, $425.25! We thought this was excessive but at the same time, we knew what she had done was wrong and that it was only right to pay for our mistake, so we did.

The only problem was, the bank never stopped even after we had paid, they wanted it all. Pandora’s box was opened.. US Bank rides a pale horse and ruin follows in it’s wake.

My wife’s paycheck was deposited, the amount being.. $1,218.24, this was to last us for the month, less rent, less utilities, less groceries. US Bank took $425.25 from it leaving us $792.99, (for the month.) They said we were all paid up, free and clear only they didn’t stop taking money. Online I found they had tacked on another $37.50 overdraft fee. Theresa took the print out to our local Gig Harbor branch to complain and so our rape began. The local people made fun of her. They publicly laughed at her, actually laughed at her and belittled her, to her face. She left the bank humiliated.

The rest of this story of mine will be told with the actual emails sent between us, US Bank and their Ethics Department.. It is the BEST way to show how crooked these people really are:
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Theresa’s 1st Email to the US Bank Complaint Department:

To Whom It May Concern:

I went to my local US Bank where I opened my account in Gig Harbor North. I took my paycheck in on September 05, 2008 to deposit and clear up my negative account balance. The teller that day, (Sept. 5th) was very nice and I explained I needed to know my exact balance after all this was cleared up.

I deposited, $1218.94. It showed I was negative, $382.75, but that another check had tried to come through and that made it, minus $420.25.

She said after all was said and done I would have a positive balance of $798.69 which she validated on the back of my deposit slip. My husband and I looked at our account online Monday, (Sept. 8th 2008) and saw US Bank had taken an extra $37.50 overdraft charge out of the account, again, 3 days after I was assured everything was paid up. I went over to the same US Bank, (Gig Harbor North) this morning, Sept. 09, 2008. I was showing the teller my copies from the online US Bank, banking account, including the copy of my deposit from Sept 05, 2008 and the deposit slip that the first teller validated.

I told this new teller it was my opinion that I was being ripped off for $37.50 when I was assured on Sept. 05, 2008 that the $798.69 was going to be my balance.

The male teller next to her joined in on our conversation and said, the teller on Friday, (Sept. 05, 2008) was wrong and that there was another check that had tried to go through and that the teller of Sept. 05, 2008 could not see it on her computer. When I questioned why I could see my checking account online and she couldn’t, he stated the online banking was, QUOTE: “Only a tool.” that, “it really didn’t mean anything.” In the meantime, the girl that was helping me was laughing at me.

I still feel that I am being ripped off for the $37.50 and I can tell you I was plenty humiliated that the girl was openly laughing at me. Because of this shoddy treatment I will probably be changing banks even though it was my fault for the initial negative balance I don’t see the need for these two tellers to openly, (and publicly) humiliate me. I am 60 years old and I can tell you I will not stand for this treatment.

Theresa D.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Their 1st reply: September 10, 2008

Dear Theresa D,

Thank you for the opportunity to assist you through U.S. Bank’s online services.

On behalf of U.S. Bank, I would like to apologize for your recent experience. We understand how important great Customer Service is, not only to our customers, but also to us as a bank. The bank would not exist without customers. Sometimes we need to be reminded of this. I have forwarded your email to management at the Gig Harbor Office Branch. Thank you of making us aware of this matter and please allow sufficient time for your email to be reviewed.

Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist you with.

Sincerely,

Mike Myers
Email Operations
U.S. Bank 24-Hour Banking and Financial Sales


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

We sat around, waiting for a reply and after not receiving one, I went online, trying to find somebody a little higher up on the ladder of command, I did and resent the 1st email..
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Their 2nd reply: September 10, 2008

Subject: usbank:
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:05 PM
Dear Ms.D,

Thank you for contacting us regarding your U.S. Bank account.

On behalf of U.S. Bank and myself, I would like to extend our sincerest apologies for the recent service you received while visiting our Gig Harbor North branch office. I assure you that it is always our intention to perform at the highest standards possible to meet our customer’s expectations. I appreciate your feedback on your experience, as I want to insure in the future that the expectations for quality service are met for all of our customers.

I would be happy to review your account and provide any information or assistance possible. I appreciate you contacting us via email and for bringing this matter to our attention. I look forward to your reply.

Shana Nadeau
Email Operations Management Team
U.S. Bank 24-Hour Banking and Financial Sales

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In between all of this the Gig Harbor branch of US Bank agreed to refund us the additional overdraft charge of $32.50, then the REAL thievery on their part began.

Our 2nd reply:

September 20, 2008:
Dear Ms. Shana Nadeau Email Operations Management Team U.S. Ban; This is a reply to your email of 9/10/2008 with an additional statement of great dissatisfaction with the predatory practices policy of the Gig Harbor North branch of US Bank.

Prior to my paycheck deposit of $1,218.24 I had overdraft and other charges totaling $425.25. When I deposited my paycheck on 09/05/2008, I cleared these charges off my record, yet I was charged an additional $37.50 overdraft fee which was refunded back to me when the Gig Harbor North Bank acknowledged it was a mistake after I spoke on the phone with “Jenny” who said she was the Co-Manager of the US Bank. On Septemeber 11, 2008, the $37.50 was refunded which brought my account back to the amount of $174.03. The very same day the refund was made my account was charged a total of $80.00 for charges to a collection agency for 2-checks that had supposedly bounced. These checks, #2046, (written on August 31, 2008) #2047, (written on September 03, 2008.) The next day, 09/12/2008 my account was then hit for the value of these 2 checks to the tune of, #2046 = $17.69, and #2047 = $32.51, making it a total hit for the sum of, $130.20!! On the 15th of
September I removed $40.70 leaving a balance of $3.83 in my account.

Today, September 20, 2008 I find my account has AGAIN been charged, $40.00 to the check collection company on September 18, 2008 PLUS I had an overdraft fee of $37.50 charged to my account, THEN to add insult to injury I am charged a Redepcheck charge of $25.23 for a check that was written on September 04, 2008 for a new total of -$99.60!!

Are you kidding me? My husband and I are on a fixed income. My monthly paycheck is our ONLY SOURCE of money and US Bank has taken a total of $550.95 PLUS wanting an additional $99.60 bringing the grand total to $650.55! I am looking at the header of the webpage and it says, “US Bank” but when I look at the amount that was taken from my paycheck it makes me think I am really banking with, “Check Into Cash” who charge a percentage rate of, 456.25%. If what US Bank has done to me isn’t predatory I don’t know the definition of the word. How is it possible for a check written on 09/05/2008 to clear but 3 other checks written on 08/31/2008, 09/03/2008 and 09/04/2008 do not? They were ALL written to the same place, Peninsula Market in Key Center, WA.

You know what I think? I believe that because I complained about shoddy service on 09/09/2008 and possibly got someone in trouble, I have been retaliated against. Something has been changed in my account to cause all these charges that make not one lick of sense and I WILL NOT take it laying down. This I promise you. I say it again, this is a PREDATORY RETALIATION and just because I am a Senior Citizen DOES NOT make me stupid!

-Theresa D.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is a copy of the actual on-line statement that we sent with the above email. I added the colored boxes so it would be easier for them to understand what we were saying. It turned out I was just wasting my time.

Click on this image for a full sized version:


Their last reply to us:
Dear Ms. D,

Thank you for your reply and for providing the additional information below. I understand how frustrating and confusing fees can be when charged to an account. Please allow me to clarify what happened in your account and why the fees have been assessed.

An overdraft fee is assessed for each item that causes the available balance to become negative or occurs while the available balance is negative on the checking account. Overdraft fees are posted to an account the day after the bank has paid item(s) which brought the Available balance to a negative position. A deposit made on the day the fees are assessed will not stop them from posting.

Additionally, once an account has a negative balance for a period of 4 consecutive days then it is subject to the daily $8.00 Continuous Overdraft Fee. This fee may continue for a period of 30 calendar days or until the account is brought to a positive balance.

To determine the appropriate fee for a particular overdraft item paid or returned, we count the number of occasions in the preceding 12-month period. An “occasion” is a day in which your account has insufficient funds to cover an Item as defined in Your Deposit Account Agreement. Fees are subject to a daily maximum of 6 Paid and/or Returned Items, a maximum total of 12 per day.

Overdraft Item Paid

1st occasions $19.00 per item
2-4 occasions $35.00 per item
5 or more occasions $37.50 per item

Overdraft Item Returned

1st occasions $19.00 per item
2-4 occasions $35.00 per item
5 or more occasions $37.50 per item

The above fee information is disclosed within the Consumer Pricing Information brochure associated with your account. You are welcome to review the brochure online at the link listed below. You would need to select Consumer Pricing Information and select the state where the account was opened:Link T and C

On 08/29/08, the beginning account balance was $10.03. We processed transactions totaling $42.42 and two transactions cleared against a negative available balance. The transactions were as follows:

Date Transaction

Account Unavailable Available
Bal. Funds Bal.

08/29 2041 22.42 D
KB6240 IMG9394732706 CUSTOMER CHECK
12.39- .00 12.39-

08/29 2042 20.00 D
KB6240 IMG9394732705 CUSTOMER CHECK
32.39- .00 32.39-

On 09/02/08, the beginning account balance was negative -$32.39. We deducted two overdraft fees totaling $70.00 due to the above two transactions. Then we processed check number 2043 in the amount of $27.51 and this transaction cleared against a negative available balance. The ending available balance on this day was negative -$129.90. An overdraft fee was assessed on the following business day due to check number 2043.

On 09/03/08, the beginning account balance was negative -$129.90. We deducted the overdraft fee of $37.50 due to the transaction on the previous day. Then we processed transactions totaling $70.85 and two transactions cleared against a negative available balance. The transactions were as follows:

Date Transaction

Account Unavailable Available
Bal. Funds Bal.

09/03 2044 34.66 D
KB6477 IMG9396066414 CUSTOMER CHECK
238.25- .00 238.25-

Also throughout processing on 09/03/08, check number 2046 in the amount of $17.69 was presented for payment. Due to insufficient funds the check was returned and a return check charge posted on 09/04/08 in this regard.

Please note that when an item of yours overdraws an account, we can either pay of refuse to pay the item. If we get a batch of items in a day (checks typically come in batches,) and if one, some or all of them would overdraw the account if paid, we can pay or refuse to pay them, in any order, or no order. For example, if one large check and six small checks are offered to us for payment, and the one check would empty the account we can:

(1) pay the one large check and refuse to pay the six small checks;

(2) pay the small checks and refuse to pay the large check;

(3) pay all of them, creating an overdraft; or

(4) pay some and reject others.

We have all of these options each time you might overdraw an account. What we do one time does not make that a rule you can rely on for the future.

On 09/04/08, the beginning account balance was negative -$238.25. We deducted two overdraft fees totaling $75.00 due to the two transactions that cleared on 09/03/08 against a negative available balance. We also deducted the return check charge of $37.50 due to check number 2046. Check number 2047 in the amount of $32.51 was presented for payment. Due to insufficient funds the check was returned and a return check charge was assessed on 09/05/08 in this regard.

Also on 09/04/08, a continuous overdraft fee of $32.00 was assessed due to the negative available balance on 09/01/08, 09/02/08, 09/03/08, and 09/04/08.

On 09/05/08, the beginning account balance was negative -$382.75. A deposit in the amount of $1,218.94 was received but only the first $100.00 of the deposit was available on this day. The remaining deposited funds were held for verification per our Funds Availability Policy. A return check charge of $37.50 was charged on this day due to check number 2047. The deposit did not prevent the fee from posting. Because the available balance was still overdrawn, an $8.00 continuous overdraft fee was assessed as well.

Also throughout processing on 09/05/08, check number 2048 in the amount of $25.23 was presented for payment. Due to insufficient funds the check was returned and a return check charge of $37.50 posted on 09/08/08 in this regard.

Thus far, check numbers 2046, 2047, and 2048 were returned unpaid due to insufficient funds. The fees I have explained above are valid and were charged to the account correctly.

Please note that on 09/12/08, check numbers 2046 and 2047 were presented again for payment. They were presented electronically and paid. On 09/19/08, check number 2048 in the amount of $25.23 was presented again for payment. The item was presented electronically and paid.

On 09/18/08, the beginning account was $3.13. We processed check number 28202121 in the amount of $40.00 and this left the available balance as negative -$36.87. An overdraft fee of $37.50 was assessed on 09/19/08 in this regard.

On 09/19/08, the beginning account balance was negative -$36.87. The overdraft fee of $37.50 was assessed due to the check on the previous day. Then we processed check number 2048 in the amount of $25.23 and this left the available balance as negative -$99.60. An overdraft fee in the amount of $37.50 was assessed on 09/22/08 in this regard.

On 09/23/08, a continuous overdraft fee of $24.00 was assessed due to the negative available balance on 09/21/08, 09/22/08, and 09/23/08.

After careful review of the account history, I have determined the fees assessed are valid. Because the fees assessed were not a result of a bank error, I am not able to provide a reversal. I am very sorry for the additional financial burden this may cause.

The best way to avoid an overdraft situation is to keep a register of all items processing through an account. We provide several tools to assist our customers in maintaining their account register, including Internet Banking, and 24-Hour Telephone Banking. What we are unable to provide are the amounts of checks or other withdrawals that remain outstanding on an account. It is a customers responsibility to record each transaction that is made in order to know the exact available balance at all times.

Although I am not able to provide a reversal of the fees that have been assessed, I will certainly forward your emails regarding the service you have received at the Gig Harbor - Albertson’s Office to the manager for review. Again, I apologize for the service you received and for any misinformation you were provided.

I appreciate you contacting us via email and for the opportunity to assist you.

Shana Nadeau
Email Operations Management Team
U.S. Bank 24-Hour Banking and Financial Sales

___________________________________________________________________________________

Now we are nearing the end of my tale of rape because you see, we tried to close our account when they bounced that last check, (the one that was written when we had $1,200.00 in the account, the one they held onto for nearly 3 weeks before putting it through, causing it to rack up overdraft fees of nearly $100.00. Overdraft fees of one hundred dollars on a $25.23 check..) we tried to close our account in an attempt to freeze this charge, right where it was only, they wouldn’t let us! They wouldn’t let us close the account, instead they charged us a fee of $8.00 a day for the rest of the month of September through the entire month of October before finally closing our account, (and turning us into collections.)

The final charge for their parting shot of our rape? $479.10.. On a check that was written when we had money in the bank to cover it. A check they hung unto, (even though they cleared checks written after it) until we had no money in our account.. They held onto this check, pushed it through, started charging us overdraft fees, wouldn’t let us close our account, tacking on more fees for over a month bringing the total of our rape at their hands to the grand total of $479.10 on a $25.23 check!

How do you do this? How can you keep track of a check if they hold them for as long as they wish?

They provide Internet banking as a way to keep track of your checks, yet, when you point out the fact that you are using what you are viewing on line….

…You get told that Internet banking is only a tool and really doesn’t mean much. The numbers you see online aren’t the same as the ones the bank uses. I ask you, how are you supposed to keep track?

How do you deal with a company that plainly states the rules change at their whim? What they do once doesn’t mean you should count on it twice? How can you keep track of anything?

This deposit of ours is cut on a State of Washington check. It’s a good check that is good ANYWHERE in this State. You don’t have to check for avalibility.

This isn’t illegal? This isn’t against the law? This is predatory, pure and simple.. Try and tell me it isn’t, I dare you. Where is the justice? Where do we get justice? Who will help us get justice? Who will give us a bail out?

Do you think this story of mine is the only one? Not a chance CLICK HERE and read about other victims, coast to coast.

 

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Comments

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Where is Mr. Obama on this? I would write him. FDR used intervene in such matters. you are in my prayers.
Thanks for reading it, Professor.. every extra eye helps.
Hopefully some sort of common sense regulations can reel in these greedy heartless bastards. I've never been through anything like what you have here, but I've had my times with them and have heard horror stories all my live. No heart, no long term customer appreciation and then we bail them out and then they fuck us even worse. It would be nice if someone would at least pull our hair while they are screwing us. I hate, hate, hate the bastards.
i'm sorry you all had to go through this ric. and predatory is right. banks = licensed robbery.

"How do you deal with a company that plainly states the rules change at their whim? What they do once doesn’t mean you should count on it twice? How can you keep track of anything? "

exactly. how?

i don't have any stories that compare to how badly you guys were ramshafted, but i know i don't trust banks, never have, never will, and this is one of those stories that just reinforces my belief in that regard.
I'm sorry this happened to you, Ric. Fees are high enough here but I have never in my life EVER heard of anything like this. I've had issues with a couple of banks, and took my business to credit unions. Since that time, I have never had one problem in more than 20 years.
Thanks everybody.. be sure to click that link and read stories from other people humped by US Bank. Some are much worse than ours.
This never gets any better no matter how many times one reads it. Makes you understand how some folks go postal.

Monte
I love the banks in India, sorry the nationalised ones. The private banks are robbers. I was made aware of this fact by the experience of a acquaintance with home loans.
This is awful that you had to go through this and be treated so badly. I am glad I use a small locate bank but I can say that today then everything go to hell tomorrow. I have heard some horror stories. And working in accounting and finance for corporate companies I have had to deal with banks a lot and I know how they can treat people. I don't know how many times they screwed up the companies account and I had to scream and yell to get things straighten out and it was their employees who made the damn error not me and they treated me like shit. I got into one lady's face and told her if she couldn't treat me any better that my company would take their millions else where. But I know it is different for individuals it is actually worse on them..
Thank you for a great post.. I don't like bank of US either after I had to deal with them at work.
Now you see why Dillenger was a hero. Banks have always been this way, always will. They live in the blind spot of capitalism, to them, it is their right to do this.
The Banking system is part of the big problem, for sure! I'm telling you, "Bank of the Matress" is making a come back. Ric, I am appalled at what happened to you and Tresa and it is so very wrong. The part that troubles me most is how they "held" checks that would have covered you and prevented the overdrawn status. It is a "mell of a hess!" Here in California, we have something called, "7 on your side." Channel 7 investisgates companies or businesses that rip off people or for unfair treatment or business practice and put it on TV! You might check to see if any major tv channel in the Seattle area does this kind of investigative reporting.
That might get some attention and maybe even some money back. A lot of work I suspect, tho. Good luck, however you and Tresa tackle this injustice!
A truly horrifying story, one that bears repeating because it can happen to any of us.

Thank you, Ric, for taking the responsibility on yourself to educate us. That's what friends do, and you've done it excellently.

Let me add in support of your story that Utica Bank in Tulsa, OK, ran the same scam on my husband and me back in the late 1960s.

I think it's important for all of us to realize that what Ric describes isn't new, and isn't localized.

This can happen to ANY of us, at any time, anywhere.
Crooks, liars and thieves is a perfect definition of a lot of banks.

Yes, it's wrong to "bounce checks" but my thing is, okay, you bounce a check for lets say$75, the overdraft fees and such shouldn't be something like $800,000,000 for that one check.

The loan sharks charge less than that!!! ~shaking head~
Geeze Ric, I am so sorry you had to go through this experience. It sucks in a way that I can barely imagine. I hope things are better for you both now.
Ric... I too have posted on this subject, and will continue to do so until something changes. I do pray for common sense! (rated)
I read an article recently about a class action lawsuit against some bank for holding checks until they will bounce to increase fees. Like this:

You have $100. You write 5 good checks for $20 each, totalling $100. Then you write a bad check for $100.

The bank processes the $100 check first, bringing your balance to zero. Then the bank puts through the five $20 checks, charging you for five bounced checks.

The other class action lawsuit I've heard about involves "overdraft protection" on debit cards - basically, you're not supposed to be able to overdraw a debit card. If you don't have the money the card should be declined. But if you have overdraft protection, they will go right ahead and put the card through, put your balance into the negative, and start charging fees. You can opt out of overdraft protection but you have to call the bank and do it.

Sounds like you guys might be able to get a lawsuit together, if this sort of thing is a common experience.
I hate 'em too. I recently had a spate of OD charges, 12 in all at $25.77 a pop. When I asked for a little help they did NOTHING. I have since moved my business to a local credit union. If you can get its credit card then you set up overdraft protection using the card. That way you avoid those fucking OD charges. I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them I hate them !!!!!
The Axis of Evil Ric, Banks, Insurance and Oil.
Something has to be done with banks. They borrow billions from US then steal from US.
Rated
hi there ric,

i read this once before, and it incenses me. the banks have all become extortionists and profiteers, in my opinion.

i once had 150 dollars in fees - six bounced checks.
after, quite literally, 2 hours on the phone with one person, i got them removed. i finally finally got her to see that the total amount of withdrawals was LESS THAN the total amount of my deposit. she tried to use some excuse that theorder in which they were recieved mattered. i wish i could help you. its a crime.
oh, and i am crazy about your new banner.
I advocate violence. The gruesome kind, that leaves a mental scar long after the physical wounds are healed. Any bank clerk who laughs at a customer in distress should be pulverized. With as many of their colleagues watching.
US Bank rides a pale horse and ruin follows in it’s wake.

This is a real horror story Ric and my heart goes out to you. And I think what you are doing in writing it is at the heart of what we ALL need to do. So I applaud you. For too long, folks have looked outside themselves (Congress needs to fix this, Obama needs to fix this, religion needs to fix this) And that shifts all the power away from US.

WE all of need to say no to stuff like this---fight it as you are. Don't put the fight soemwhere else. I'm not saying that these scum bags don't need regulation. That is obvious. What I'm saying is that, as Obama says, Saul Alinsky said, and pretty much any given social activist says---change comes from the bottom up.

Keep up the fight!

Roger
We need some serious regulation in exchange for those billions that haven't seen the light of day!

For banks which recieved bailouts or that get any more bailout money:

1. All current and past (since the first bailout) overdraft fees need to be refunded, then reduced to a maximum of 15.00.

2. If a person was late two times, there is no change to the original, promised interest rate.

3. If you pay online and you pay before the due date, your payment gets acknowledged the day of the transaction, not some arbitrary, later date set by the lender because the lender delays or is slow with processing.

4. Banks process deposits BEFORE they process withdrawals.

Why can't we get some of these rules put into effect?
This is just another example that predatory banking needs to be stopped. I'm so sorry that you had to go through this, Ric. So many good people are being treated like criminals, all in the name of greed.
I so empathize! After being in a similar situation in the 90's I noticed that it costs more to be poor. Really, once the institutions see that you are unable to pay, they penalize you with what they already know you don't have - more money. There is never a way to pull yourself out of the hole and the vultures want to be sure you stay in that hole. It's criminal.
It's enough to make you lose your mind, I know. I've battled with banks many times over the years. They are implacable. They are not sentient. They are the Borg!
well... I guess they gotta be sentient. But they have no feelings!
ric that light is like an eye peeking at me, and not in a benign manner.
you really ARE the banner savant.
Hey Ric... I saw the ghost! The Caddy looks a little like my dad's '49 model - the one I totaled in a drunken stupor.
I apologize in advance for the length of this response.

I have several reactions to this post apart from the gut-searing hatred that I have for banks and insurance companies. Let me say, as a middle-aged, short female with a Spanish last name, I get that type of condescending treatment a lot. I've learned to be quite mean. I understand your wife's feelings.

First idea: What sometimes works with some companies (although banks are a hard nut to crack) is to give them unanswerable arguments that have nothing to do with the law or their policies. As we say in the law, if the law is against you, argue the facts. The facts that you would argue are "we are on a limited income, your charges and internal procedures are difficult for the ordinary person to follow, as a result of your charges, we are threatened with eviction/loss of medical care/inability to afford gas to go to work. We feel that we have done our best to pay what we owe and to understand your system, but you must understand that your accounting practices are more than simply a technical challenge for your customers. They can pose serious threats to the economic survival of your customers who run afoul of your complicated fee and penalty structure. We feel you should return the $XXX.00 that we feel is unfair."

I do a lot of arguing (I'm disabled and fight constantly with insurance) and I have studied law and the techniques of negotiation. You can't beat them in an argument on their rules. The moral argument doesn't always work, but it's the only thing that has a chance of working. An important part of this technique is to balance the moral opprobium and not make them feel personally evil, but to imply that the complexity of their systems inadvertantly leads to evil. It is also important to repeat the argument. It takes about three times saying the same thing before they realize that you are serious about making them deal with you. You make it impossible for them to argue their policies: "I know that's your policy, but we can't pay the rent. I'm sure you don't have a policy of making your depositors homeless."

The other thing that occurs to me is that you have already organized a lawsuit. You probably have some technical grounds to sue for breach of contract if you can demonstrate that the bank failed to post a check that you could cover until other charges made it an overdraft. Of course, the bank would wave the fine print. I don't know the law of your state, but in general, you can use the usual practice of a business to argue that you had a right to expect the same performance.

You would sue them in small claims court. No lawyers. The bank would be forced to send a management-level person to defend the case. At the very least, they would have to use their legal department to file a motion to dismiss. Major lawsuits against banks usually fail because they have been granted broad rights to constantly alter their contracts with you and include excessive, mysterious charges that only they understand. However, small claims court is a low-risk venue. The types of lawsuits that have gone before are massive class actions. A small claims suit is a bee sting by comparison, but the bank cannot make you pay their costs, which is what happens if you lose a major lawsuit.

The small claims lawsuit strategy comes from the mortgage area, where people who felt they should not be paying mortgage insurance, but could not get their banks to cancel this, paid every month and then filed a monthly lawsuit to get the money back. It has been reported to work in many cases. The rules say the person has to pay, but the annoyance of the many lawsuits made it not worth the bank's time.

I wish you luck.
It seems so parallel to our national economic mess that a banks' penalty system (and profits) would be set up to prey on those most vulnerable and least able to pay. I remember facing a similar situation as a beginning teacher; I was in the teller line in tears because I ALREADY had no money when a check bounced, so how was I supposed to cover the check AND the fee from the bank AND the fee from the grocery store? I hadn't thought about that episode in years, and looking back, it just seems absurd to kick the suffering with fees when they're already on the ground.

You did the right thing, covered your fees, did your best, and still you were abused. Sorry for your stress; glad I found your blog. Hope life is better for you and your wife these days. Peace.
Ric...This is terrible. It is definitely predatory and insane. And what is worse is that these insane charges were made against you because you DON'T have the money to be able to afford them. One of the things I loved about having money was that the bankers would do almost anything to keep my business. They would give me special deals and privileges, making me a "Private Banking" customer with my own bank officer that had the power to forgive those little (or BIG) overdrafts that we had way too often. They would loan us money if we weren't going to get a paycheck soon enough to cover them properly. This is a bad system. When our bank was bought out by US Bank, my bank officer (a VP) left to join a newly started local bank, and I went with her. I still have accounts at US Bank, but they are fairly inactive. Since I still qualify under "Private Banking," I don't have any fees I don't think (maybe I should check.) The new bank is a local bank owned by a trust that can't be bought out, and I still don't have overdraft fees. I am working to also not have overdrafts. It really makes me mad that the government took off all usury laws, and controls from commercial time on TV, and equal time requirements for political messages. What else have they done to undermine The People? This is not right, it's not right, it's not right. I am working hard to cut all ties with banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, and in general all large corporations. I am working to start and support peoples' cooperative ventures, beginning with local foods, locally produced clothing, and local credit unions. I have been a member of CoopAmerica (at $15 per year) for at least three years which gives you unbiased information on the social, ecological, and fiscal responsibility of companies we do business with. It is time to start voting with our dollars. Even if we have very few dollars, they should NEVER go to big corporations who don't give a shit about us. Ric, if you ever get into that situation again, please let me know. You have to know people who will pull strings for you. I know I could do something...at least make some more noise. You have to have friends in high places to bail you out...just ask AIG. Ric, I think this is going to be a whole post for me. It makes me so mad. Thanks for reminding me what people have to go through every day in this horrendous system.
"If you don't like your credit card just toss it out". -- Tom Tancredo, Ed Schultz show May 30, 2009 --

Yes, I am sure someone will send me a new one on a silver plater and a neck rub by a lobbyist!

Congressman Tom Tancredo obviously doesn’t know (or care?) about the predatory dealings of financial institutions such as Bank of America. I vowed never to have Bank of America as my bank again after a short stint with them back in the 80s … ( you can see more at my blog)


I am extremely frustrated at the control these institutions have imposed on me, my family and our liberty, and frankly the citizens around me. I went into a Bank of America branch recently here in Vallejo and watched as the customers came in. Many of them looked pained and wounded as if they were going before a tribunal to account for their sins as “what is this charge for?” echoed through the lobby. Bank of America knows exactly how much can be made by making it difficult to track down charges that are incoherent to the average citizen. I believe Bank of America, this company that wraps its image with the symbol of US patriotism, is the darkest stain of evil on our freedom and integrity.

I am neither rich nor excessively educated but I do have a fair amount of life experience and what I see is an excess of reliability on people who claim to be authorities on subjective matters, people who can measure devoutness, loyalty, patriotism, marketing, the stock market, and even credit default swaps. These are the people we follow, and when they prove to be to be false profits, or more accurately greedy liars, they rely on our sympathies to bail them out. These greed mongers seem to believe they have a claim on our human sensitivities. We are the chumps. Remember the recent Bank of America campaign “keep the change?” Well, now I understand the term “chump change.”

If Thomas Jefferson were here today giving us a speech, standing before us… speaking his objections to Hamiltonian motivations we could replace our first treasurer’s name in that speech with “AIG,” or “B of A,” or “corporate executives” and his message would still be applicable today. I’ve recently read a bit about the formation of America and our fiscal structure. The similarities from then to now are uncanny. I’m quite sure the more centrist, more liberal, or better educated of us could see and affirm Jefferson’s position. Hamilton, with Washington’s compromise, led us down this path and it’s been the same issues rippling through time. Exposing the greed without sanctions or regulations only allows them to slip back into the cracks to pop up elsewhere at another time. This time the greed is so apparent --yet some of the more loyal are adjusting their blinders… waiting for the time their loyalties will pay off. They don’t know it’ll be a long wait and they don’t care --their loyalty in a large part is their motivation. The “experts of subjective matters,” the people that control and hold our worldly assets, will keep brainwashing them that “money is evil and loyalty is divine!”

There must be more regulation. Why am I always being enrolled in some credit card sponsored insurance? How is it I get these free gifts, and they are added to my credit card bill three months later? Why is it they are able to adjust their rates and their penalty charges whenever they want… especially when they need a couple hundred million more in bonuses.

I am not naïve to believe this is an easily fixable problem, but I do believe it is my duty as a citizen to complain. Why must we, the middle-class majority, be the ones put in the box with no other escape, but to feed and service the greedy?