Rob St. Amant

Rob St. Amant
Birthday
December 31
Bio
My roots are in San Francisco and later Baltimore, where I went to high school and college. I stayed on the move, living for a while in Texas, several years in a small town in Germany, and then several more in Massachusetts, working on a Ph.D. in computer science. I'm now a professor at North Carolina State University, in Raleigh. My book, Computing for Ordinary Mortals, will appear this fall. www.amazon.com/author/robertstamant

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AUGUST 20, 2010 9:10PM

Let me offer an analogy

Rate: 33 Flag

The Laura Schlessinger controversy has gotten me thinking about analogies. I find that when I try to make my views clear, especially to someone I disagree with, analogies come in handy.

For example, here's the opening to Schlessinger's recent radio conversation:

SCHLESSINGER: Jade, welcome to the program.
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Laura.
SCHLESSINGER: Hi.
CALLER: I'm having an issue with my husband where I'm starting to grow very resentful of him. I'm black, and he's white. We've been around some of his friends and family members who start making racist comments as if I'm not there or if I'm not black. And my husband ignores those comments, and it hurts my feelings. And he acts like --
SCHLESSINGER: Well, can you give me an example of a racist comment? 'Cause sometimes people are hypersensitive. So tell me what's -- give me two good examples of racist comments.

It seemed to me that Schlessinger began in a confrontational tone. A friend disagreed, so I offered this  analogous conversation: 

CALLER: Hi, Dr. L.

L: Hi.

CALLER: I'm having an issue at work, with my male boss. I've been around when he's started making sexist comments as if I'm not there or if I'm not a woman--

L: Well, can you give me an example of a sexist comment? 'Cause sometimes people are hypersensitive. Give me two good examples of sexist comments.

I wouldn't expect helpful insights or advice after this. Similarly, when my friend later said, "Schlessinger wasn't calling anyone a 'nigger' when she used the word," I imagined her having said this:

Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO, listen to a black comic, and all you hear is motherfucker, motherfucker, motherfucker. I don't get it. If anybody without enough melanin calls a black person a motherfucker, it's a horrible thing; but when black people say it to each other, it's sometimes affectionate. It's very confusing.

Does the analogy make it less confusing? Perhaps. I might add that one of my friends regularly pops his head in my office and opens a conversation with a cheery, "Hey, motherfucker!" My analogy doesn't get at the historical use of an insult, but it suggests that subtle social issues may be at play, and that in-group/out-group distinctions are relevant.


Analogies help make a particular perspective vivid, but they're not always useful in an argument. Let's take a different controversy, about the Park51 project, which some describe as the Ground Zero Mosque. Newt Gingrich says,

Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington. We would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor. There's no reason for us to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center.

One equivalence Newt draws is between Nazis and Muslims. It's easy to dismiss this analogy: Muslims aren't Nazis. Analogies along these lines can also backfire. For example, you can find arguments against Park51, saying that it would be the equivalent of an American cultural center based in Hiroshima. It happens that Time magazine has its archives online, going back as far as 1957:

Not long after Iranian-born Fazl Fotouhi, 46, took over as director of the American Cultural Center in Hiroshima, Japan...

"Not long after" was 1954, coincidentally just nine years after the deaths of thousands. If, as some argue (such as the Anti-Defamation League), that causing victims more pain is simply wrong... well, we've done it before, but presumably in good faith.


I'll end with an analogy relevant to one continuing controversy, which I've written about before: efforts to improve the U.S. health system. Sometimes you'll hear people say, "The U.S. medical system is the best in the world.  Why else would people come from all over the world to get treatment here?" I'll answer,

In the same way, the Italian automobile industry is the best in the world.  Some people go to Italy specifically to buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini; no other country's cars come close.

With apologies to Germany. I haven't made an argument, of course, but I hope I've made my point clear. 

 

 

 

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Comments

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I am usually wary of giving opinions on, well politics, because I am an American but then again, I am not.
But Mr. Gringich's sweeping comment regarding everyone who is Muslim as a terrorist is a scary thing indeed.
Thoughtful, good post.
Hmmm. Well, I guess since we're good friends, I'll just pop in here to your virtual office and say 'Great analogy motherfucker!'

(sorry Rob, that hurt me more than it did you! I'm going to go bite a bar of soap right this minute)
Rob, in your sensitive and respectful manner, you explain the use of a very effective tool of diplomacy. I am finding that analogy, in tandem with a calm demeanor works very well. I found Dr Laura's beginning statements to be obviously biased, and she lost the caller right away.
Thanks for the comments. vanessa, I agree: Gingrich and his friends really have pulled out all the stops. I don't know how they can live with themselves.

Thanks, Bernadine.

Gabby, I have to confess that I don't talk that way, which probably reflects on my manly credentials. Oh, well.

Thanks, Gary. I think it's useful (or maybe this is just an issue of temperament) to think about how we talk about things, in the service of persuasion and coming to agreement. (By the way, I really liked your last post, though I didn't have anything to contribute in the way of a comment.)
Rob, so much to think about here, and the way you approach this is unique. I'll be chewing on this (metaphorically, of course) for some time.
good examples, analogies can enlighten or mislead, but often are the best way to bring someone to that "ah-ha" moment
Excellent post, Rob. Just the kind I like. I'm reading a book by a cognitive scientist about the way people think and what they remember, and stories and analogies are powerful because they bring material from the intellectual realm to the particular. But apparently our brains aren't well equipped to transfer the information from one example to another as easily as we might think. I can't remember the gobbledy gook explanation he gave for that, but it jives with something I read about two years ago about math instruction: As it turns out, and contrary to the thinking of the last couple decades, students learn concepts better when they remain abstract. When they are turned into word problems--measuring how long a school bus takes to go different routes and distances, for example--apparently students don't grasp the larger point as well as if they were just given the mathematical, theoretical, or formulaic explanation.

I no longer remember why I am telling you all this.

Nice post.
PS: You do realize, don't you, that at first glance your title seems to say, "Let me offer an apology." I rushed over to find out what grave disservice you perpetrated on us all.
I love when you get all "let's think about this a little more deeply, sahll we?"
oh, sorry - meant to add, you're an awesome motherfucker!
Great catch on the American Cultural Centre in Hiroshima Rob. Of course American Exceptionalism probably doesn't allow for precedents, or analogies.
But Rob, we wouldn't expect a sociopath with HIV to use a condom. A dung beetle wouldn't make its home in a bed of flowers. How can we ever hope that Newt would be above the basest level of discourse?
Yeah, Gingrich is an opportunistic twit. There are subtle substantive conversations about many issues that never even take place because some professional ass dirties up the arena before the real debate can even begin!
(R)ated for trying here.
Great post.

Unfortunately, it's totally irreleant. (sorry, I'm missing the key between u and w - new keyboard is on the way ... I use a Mac, so I can't just run down to the local store...) People either see how awful Dr. L. was by themseles or they refudiate any analogy or counter-argument or appeal to decency. (In their minds, Muslims are TOO like Nazis....or they're wilfully stirring up the know-nothings for fun and profit...)

Stim has it with the reference to dung beetles.
Good arguments. Unfortunately I don't think most people know what analogies are anymore. Parables don't work either.
Thanks for the comments.

Jeanette, it surprises me how common analogies are in politics. Another interesting example is the debate over stimulus spending. People who should know better (and probably do) argue that a family with financial difficulties should run up big credit card bills, but this is a terrible analogy: sometimes it is appropriate (if borrowing, for example, will contribute toward getting a better job), and a country of 300 million actually is very different from a family of four.

Thanks, Roy. I agree: it's the "aha" part that makes analogies useful.

Hey, Lainey. You'll have to tell me the name of the book you're reading. It sounds interesting and possibly familiar. There are arguments that nearly everything we understand has a foundation in metaphors and analogies with our everyday bodily experiences, but you're right that we can have surprising difficulty generalizing over examples, even so.

what grave disservice you perpetrated on us all.

I'd have thought my presence here was enough. :-)

Why, thanks, Sandra! I haven't been around much lately; it's good to see you here.
Abrawang, I think I came across that little tidbit about the American cultural center in Hiroshima a few months ago, before the Park51 controversy. (I can't remember why I went looking for it.) It surprised me, too. I have the same thought, that the natural American reaction would be, "But we're the good guys!"

I know, kateasley. Debate about health care has nothing on arguments about the best cars in the world--I have to pick my fights carefully.

Good one, Stim. I like the way Steve Benen typically refers to Newt: "disgraced former House leader Newt Gingrich..." That establishes the context right from the start.

And you're exactly right, Fred: He and others often prevent useful conversation from happening.

LC, I'd be happy to nominate myself as the leader of a new religion of clarity. I'd be doing it for the potential cash contributions, but of course that would be clear from the start. :-)

Hi, Myriad. Based on the signs I see at tea party gatherings, I think you're right: Newt's equivalence between Nazis and Muslims isn't ridiculous to everyone. (As a disgraced former House leader and history professor, though, he should know better.)

Also, good luck on getting a new keyboard. If I were Dr. L., I would start discussing "valves" and "vivacity" and "uvulas", and accuse you of being hypersensitive if you didn't join in, but I'm not that kind of person. :-)

Eric! I haven't seen you around OS lately. Thanks for visiting. I agree--often people treat analogies as if they're the real thing. I'm reminded of that line, "The map is not the territory," which I like despite its association with pseudoscience. You raise a good point that even very familiar parables don't work. I vaguely remember a story about a minister retelling the story of the Good Samaritan in the past ten years, as the Good Muslim... That should be right on target, but I don't think it would work very well. Even "turn the other cheek" doesn't seem to carry much weight.
Very good post! I like the last one (because I wrote many posts about this topic).
I read that the AP is now requiring its reporters to say "the mosque near ground zero" or "the mosque two blocks from ground zero" rather than the inflammatory "ground zero mosque." Sarah Palin's response: she twittered "ground zero mosque" in all caps, with a space between each letter. So, here's an analogy: Sarah Palin is a cocktail frank in the buffet of politicians.
Your car analogy is the one I will be using from now on. Spot on.
Thanks again....you sweet-minded Mo-Fo....
mm-hmmm. Excellent thoughts.
Thanks, Kanuk. I've appreciated your posts on the health system, though I've had nothing to add lately other than sound bites.

Thanks for visiting, Lea and sweetfeet (and Gary, again). Jerry, I've read the same thing about the phrase "the Ground Zero Mosque", which is a bit inflammatory in our culture today. Good for the AP.
You've put a toe into the wonderfully murky world of nuance. More is needed!
Hi, Nikki,

If anyone understands nuance in these situations, it's you. (I'm still reading your book, by the way; I'm just not that fast...)
You're always thoughtful. How do you do that? Dr. Laura even opened her can of whoopass on America's public libraries years ago. Dumb thing to do on a book tour, but that's Dr. Laura all over. See, the Young Adult Services Division has a committee that would suggest websites that were useful for librarians to know about and possibly link up with--back in the 1990s. One site that they suggested was "Ask Alice" which was run by the medical school at Columbia University. Ask Alice focussed on answering sex questions submitted to the site--fully and factually. According to Dr. Laura, this was the equivalent of librarians sponsoring child molestation. Yeah. Really. B****h. D**b B****h. That's her.
Thanks for commenting, nolalibrarian. I hadn't heard about that incident--wow. (I've just read some of the articles that are still online.) That's one thing I really dislike about some people on the radio, making relatively casual judgments that what someone else has done is evil. Not just wrong, or misguided, but evil.
Dr Laura is always nasty. It's why people listen to that kind of thing. Juge Judy, Dr Phil. To hear someone chewed out. Warped.