Rob St. Amant

Rob St. Amant
Birthday
December 31
Bio
My roots are in San Francisco and later Baltimore, where I went to high school and college. I stayed on the move, living for a while in Texas, several years in a small town in Germany, and then several more in Massachusetts, working on a Ph.D. in computer science. I'm now a professor at North Carolina State University, in Raleigh. My book, Computing for Ordinary Mortals, will appear this fall. www.amazon.com/author/robertstamant

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JANUARY 4, 2012 9:17PM

An infinity of holiday cheer

Rate: 7 Flag

This is a not-very-Christmas-y post I published a couple of weeks ago at does this make sense? I still like the ideas about infinity; I'm feeling more upbeat these days, though.


How do you understand infinity? An infinite amount of time, an infinitely large space, or an infinite number of objects... Infinity is a strange concept. It's more than just a very large number.

David Hilbert, a German mathematician, gives a marvelous example. Imagine the Grand Hotel, which has an infinite number of rooms. You arrive late one rainy night and ask for a room.

"The hotel is entirely full," says the clerk at the front desk.

"But you have an infinite number of rooms," you say.

"I'm sorry, but tonight we also have an infinite number of guests. All mathematicians. Room 1 is occupied, and Room 2, and Room 3... A guest is in every single room."

You sigh. "Is there nothing you can do?"

The clerk thinks for a moment. "There is. It will take some cooperation, but everyone should be accommodating. I'll ask the person in Room 1 to move to Room 2, and the person in Room 2 to move to Room 3, and so forth. That will open up Room 1 for you."

"Will that work?"

The clerk shrugs. "Everyone will need to move to the room next door, but as you know, we never run out of rooms."

 The concept of infinity doesn't match our everyday intuitions. For example, if we imagined that the infinite number of mathematicians in the Grand Hotel all had the ability to shrink themselves down to an infinitely small size, they'd all fit in one room--even a closet, a medicine cabinet, or a pill bottle.

My ruminations about infinity are sparked by articles you'll find online about the true meaning of Christmas. Some mention that Jesus came to Earth to save us from the "consequences of sin".  What are those consequences? Here's a traditional Christian view:

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Not all Christians see damnation as being an eternity of hellfire, but it's a common enough view. This is a consequence of one particular sin: an infinity of punishment. This outcome doesn't seem physically impossible, as with our mathematician examples, but it does bump up against some of our other intuitions, those we have about fairness and proportionality. In our human systems of justice, we prefer to have the punishment fit the crime. Minor violations of the law produce a slap on the wrist (fortunately, that's only a metaphor), while major violations lead to execution, sometimes called the ultimate punishment. Is it really the ultimate punishment, though, in principle? We can imagine worse--an infinity of punishment...

Scary. I suppose that's the point. If you design a belief system to seriously discourage some kinds of thoughts or behaviors, you don't want people thinking too hard about tradeoffs. So you put an infinite weight on one side of the scales.

But let's come back to the real world. What is the true meaning of Christmas? I like the idea that it's about joy, love, and peace. Goodwill toward men. I'd be happy if we could have those in infinite amounts. Lacking that, though, a modicum will do.

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Comments

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Agree with the sentiment, Rob, and glad to hear that you are in better spirits.
Thanks, emma! It's nice to see you here--though I'm not around very much. Best wishes for the new year to you.
I forget which book of Vonnegut's but one of his characters described how China solved over population, food shortages, energy consumption, etc all at once: they miniaturized their people--consumption when way down.

At some point in the infinite hotel some grumpy mathematician is going to say "screw you, I'm not moving" and then there will be fusion. Which might be beneficial.

And I remember eternal damnation emanating from the stern pinched gaze of our priest while we went through the stations of the cross while trying not to dwell on those mortal sin thoughts that passed through my brain like muons.

Happy forever Rob. xo
Rob, I believe in fairness and proportionality in all human activity.
About an afterlife, I can't say, but in my life experience I see the scales equalized in many ways... sometimes in subtle increments of grace.

I understand the fascination of the myriad conundrums facing scientists and physicists, and the probity of their efforts to understand these obdurate mysteries that inspire stories for the rest of us....Good to see you friend..
Perhaps the conundrum of "infinity" can be solved when we realize that infinity is more a concept than a fact. Similar to zero, possibly.

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As for eternal punishment, it's handed out by a God who, in the early books of the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, really seemed to enjoy mass slaughter. A God of infinite mercy who gets pissed off at His creation, so He floods the earth wiping out humanity except for one family. Who afterwards promises Noah that He'll never send a flood like that again. No, He just blasts Sodom & Gomorrah with fire and brimstone. An omnipotent God who, presumably with all that omnipotence, could snap His divine fingers and forgive all sins instead lets His only begotten Son hang on a cross for nine hours. Eternal punishment for spitting on the sidewalk? Yeah, I see it. Do not mess with your Creator.

An infinite number of hotel rooms? There would never be enough clean towels.
"How do you understand infinity?"
I like your pairing of it with God, they both have about the same credibility don't they?

I still would like infinite time though. Or at least I tell myself that.
Happy New Year, Barry! I'm a fan of Vonnegut, but I don't remember that passage. Back to the book shelf... I have memories of learning about hell from Catholic nuns, myself.

Hi, Gary! It's good to see you here, too. I've enjoyed the pictures you've posted, here and elsewhere, even though I've had little time for "enjoyment" of very much lately. :-)

skypixie, the ontological status of mathematical terms is an interesting philosophical issue. W. V. O. Quine has some interesting things to say about it, if I remember correctly, in his famous "Two Dogmas of Empiricism".

Stim, things do get strange when we combine omnipotence with other things we know about the universe. I've never been much convinced by "God works in mysterious ways," especially in theodicy.

Julie, I wish I had infinite time before tomorrow...
When I was extremely young, the concept of the universe being infinite in size disturbed me greatly. Still does. But early on I imagined there must be something like a brick wall at the end of it all. And I still don't like contemplating what's beyond that wall. I'd rather think we're all in Tommy Westphall's snowglobe. Happy 2012.
This reminded me of the old Steven Wright line, "You can't have everything...where would you put it?"

I hope you and your family had an infinitely joyous holiday.