This is not what I' m talking about
While visiting my friend in Boulder, we got talking about Frequently Asked Questions. The most common question he gets is...do you really take copious amounts of LSD, while dancing around a bonfire with naked women? The answer is no, Rageboy hasn't had a drink or drug in over 25 years, isn't much for dancing, but naked women are always welcome. Bonfires optional
My FAQ is: Well, if you're like the 'guy' (and shuffle shuffle shuffling of feet, that has to involve some kind of equipment) why wouldn't the woman just be with an 'actual' guy?
The answer to that is a resounding: I don't know.
I found this from a poet named Chris, and she seems to know....
It's in the way they swagger into a room, sure of themselves,
that makes me stop mid-sentence
It's in the way they move through space, sure footing,
tilt of the head, maybe a smirk, that makes me look twice
It's in the way they look--strong, bold and fierce,
that makes me swoon
It's in the way they wear their jeans, their suits,
their ties that makes me stutter a step
It's in the way that they posture, rough house and
out butch each other, that makes me giggle
It's in the way that they are rough and sweet,
that makes me smile
It's in the way that they are both gallant...and in
private moments raunchy, sexy and hot, that makes me shudder
It's the Butch Mystique, which I would never pretend
to know, but that I understand and love.
You see, she doesnt know either, she understands. And I guess that's why a woman who doesn't identify as lesbian, or gay, or bisexual, might be attracted to me. They seem to understand something...and typically they get it immediately.
There's another question that some finally get around to asking...I know they're going to ask...so, I lead, "Just say. Just what?"
"Well," the reply slowly comes, "I don't mean to insult you, but how can you satisfy a woman, if you're the man?" Then they say something like..."I've seen porns with two women...," but...they want to say, "You're different."
You're not like this:
Apparently, what I represent doesn't fit much into the heterosexual porn scene. At any rate, I have affected a little shrug, like the answer is the most obvious thing in the world, and say, "Strap-on." Is that mean? That usually ends the question and answer period. "Oh!" Ahem ahem ahem. "Oooh......sorry I was just wondering."
Well, now ya know!
What I don't say to the curious set, is that strap-ons are still considered transgressive, even to a degree, in gay culture. That is why I almost never say that a strap-on is not a sex toy to me, it's an extension of my maleness. Only with the boldest of inquiries do I say I don't (I really don't, which some find odd) want a woman to 'perform' cunnilingus on me. Oral sex with a strap-on is amazing, but I have zero desire for oral stimulation without one. Giving it...well yesssssss.
I have been asked many times (small town), about penetration. I say, "Oh yes!" But they mean me. No, no no, nooo, I do not want to be penetrated. Not at all. Straight men are fascinated by this. When I ask them if they would like to be penetrated by a man, the response is always, "Bleehhh, noooo!" Yeah, well, me neither. Or by a woman with a strap-on. Unless it was Rebecca, when she wanted to know 'what it was like.' Other than that, no. That would be gay. Gay man gay, and as I've said before, I'm simply not a gay man. I have only been asked once, "Well, how do you 'get off'?
As any guy knows...some things take care of themselves.
As I undressed her, she kept looking at me and saying, "I can’t believe this is happening." I said, "You’re not the only one." Then I said it for the first time, "My sweetheart." She got into the tub, saying she hadn’t taken a bubble bath in forever…then she pulled herself up and whispered in my ear, "Are you a girl or a boy?" I whispered, "A boy." My heart was beating so fast, and I said, "I am so hard for you." She let out a little cry and I felt like I had never told the truth in my whole life until that moment. My mind was sort of racing because she saw my insides and she wanted me and she understood.
Robin Sneed, Flowergirls, A Mirroir
For Owl..You're in the arms of the angels.....
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I will say this, mostly for those who might read what you've said and apply it too generally to the butch-femme dynamic: how we "do it," and with what apparatus, and for what reasons, and with whom . . . soooooooo individual. There's no general rule, as far as I know - which is part of what makes sexuality so fascinating and sensual, I think.
It's a pity that a strap-on is considered a transgression - but there are far too many stigmas, even within the GLBTQI community.
I may have a drink and see if I return with more, uh, courage!
back later
(thumbified because it doesn't matter how you do it, only that you do it well.)
Sometimes the most satisfying thing is giving another pleasure, watching their response, listening and just taking it all in. That, to me is one of the most beautiful things about sex.
Damn, this makes me want to go write some more.
RATED!
My answer to "I don't mean to insult you, but how can you satisfy a woman, if you're the man?" typically involves what is probably a similar shrug, looking directly into the questioner's eyes, and with a slight almost wink: "I'm sure you'd love to know. But a gentleman never tells."
The company I work for does construction, so there's a lot of what my Grandmother would have called "rough talk." I hold my own among the construction workers - always with a superior smile. After all, I will NEVER suffer ED, and premature ejaculation NEVER compromises my performance!
Ralph...you are a good sport....xox
rated for keeping the mystery alive ; )
I won't pretend to be an A student here but I think I get at least some of what you're saying. I went to a woman's college and - even being a "straight" female, will honestly admit that there was something very exciting about the more butch students on campus. At the same time, there were women who weren't butch but definitely had..... something...... I found intriguing. I haven't been able to explain it then or since and yet I won't deny whatever feelings I was having.
Thank you for writing this.
I've noticed sometimes that a butch woman is sometimes far more female than a more effeminate woman. There is a lot about femaleness that goes beyond effeminacy. And there is definitely something something unutterably sexy about confidence, competence, and that slow look that a sweet butch offers up to a girl who blushes at the right moment...
um, I'm just gonna go get a glass of cold cold ice tea... y'all carry on, now.
back to drinking (metaphorically :) with owl!
I think you're absolutely right. There's also still, something more that I can't quite explain or even really understand.
I do appreciate the education. Maybe it's time now for a bubble bath and something sparkling?
@dicea - Damn, girl!
@RenLady - But of course!
@Sandra - You never cease to amaze! And if it's any consolation, I get all schoolboyish around gorgeous, smart women. Just ask my wife!
@Robin - It's your party, I'm just playing wingman!
And strap-ons...I have Blowfish bookmarked and someday will be purchasing said device.
Yeah, there is that... something more... that's why you go ahead and start talking with them. You may never find out what that something is, but it sure is fun to keep looking.
@ Owl,
Uh-huh, and if I ever end up somewhere at an OS party with you and Robin in the same place, Imma bring a can of pink spray paint and sit in the corner pretending to be Freaky Troll.
Sandra...yeah, I'd get pretty bashful around you too. For a minute. Then...become a little more direct....
Rated for all sorts of reasons.
Anyway...we all know where this has led me...
xox
It's complicated but I have wanted one for several years...perhaps I would have no use for it. I'm just not sure.
Because you are very open.
You are very attractive.
You are loving.
You are kind.
You write beautifully.
Need more?
!!!!!!
http://open.salon.com/blog/ladymiko/2009/06/29/pleasure_of_a_thousand_faces
That's what my boyfriend tells me. What?
;D
Rated.
looks up
looks down
smiles
blushes
Alright, I won't try to pass as Freaky, I'm not sure I could stay that excited about cake for that long anyhow.
At present I'm wearing an old pair of sweat pants and a baseball cap that has two little LEDs in the front of the brim.
*facepalm* right, this is why I was turned down for that phone sex job.
@Ladies - let me tell you. Although you've not met her, Robin's Scorpio-ness is at least as bold and smooth as her writing. Scorps are extremely, uh, sensual, to say the least.
Two ladies, actually. We've been together 10-ish years. Neither is on OS, or I'd've made sure to refer to them as "two insanely beautiful and brilliant ladies". Between the three of us we've got two houses, four lawns, two dogs, and five cats.
Honey, we're always in the market for someone else to help us pick up poop and get the groceries into the houses.
I've been pretty shy about posting about my family here on OS, but you and Owl and a few others have given me a good idea that the boring daily mechanics of some stranger's life can be compelling and interesting without being threatening. Someday, maybe I'll hike up the writing skills and the courage to talk about our little family and the greater weirder family of which we are only a small part.
Egads, that totally made me sound like some strange cultist. I swear, whatever you think, it's way more boring and far more fulfilling than that.
We have two plumbing projects in the near future, how are you with a wrench? We pay in cookies and puppy and kitty snuggles.
On a more serious note, I'll start thinking about how to describe our family. What we have we've built from the ground up and by doing everything the hard slow way. Honestly, knowing that you won't laugh or shun is a big bolster to putting out some actual personal thinky essay. Thank you.
You help me to understand more - each time.
Thank you. I yearn to understand.
We've got a new garbage disposal to install and a leaky tub drain to fix. I'm not pleased about having to learn another chapter in the book of "basic home maintenance" , but I don't suppose anyone ever is.
I won't ask for your help in the plumbing projects, but I am curious: what does the xox at the end of some of your comments mean, and how can I best respond to it in a way that most reflects your intent?
Like Sandra, I'm not wired lesbian, but I am wired curious and hedonist and open. (It's partly a Boomer thing, I think. And partly an upbringing that encouraged intellectual and physical exploration and acceptance of self).
That poem spoke to me. With strength, authority and tender regard. And, of course, heat.
Thanks very much for an educational piece, Robin. You are an amazing advocate and you seem to have this ability to verbalize concepts so that people get it without "dumbing down" what you're talking about. One your many stellar qualities. :-D
Thumbed (of course).
2. i'm extremely happy to be on the 'inside' of this, to already be in the know about what is being discussed, instead of trying to learn and understand. there are a LOT of things this girl doesn't understand, but what Robin speaks of, these things i get.
3. in my first post on OS i wrote about my confusion as an insider on this subject: "i dream of sexy butch women and wonder if i want to BE them, or just be RAVAGED by them." Robin (and Chris the poet) explain amazingly well why i will probably ultimately always turn to the option of being RAVAGED by these sexy butch creatures...with their sure footing, and their smirks, their roughness but sweetness....mmm....now i miss my ex.
thank you for writing this Robin. thank you for being this Robin.
rated for bravery, dialogue, progress, honesty.
treasured for accuracy.
I'm here for a bite to eat. You are a joy to read.
If... itchy?
Maybe I'll New Post a generic antidote for silly itches.
There were so many people You do enjoy on the Feed.
Let's go to Cappy's for a Spam Sandwich
All American
God and Country
Do I have a place here
in your heart?
4. Robin have you ever seen or heard of The Crash Pad? or it's director Shine 'Shiner' Houston? Or of Erocktavision, or Dana Dane? contemporary queer porn (yes, porn. beg pardon if that's not yer thang) with real lesbian and/or genderqueer women, by women for women. i only know of it through a dvd i snagged on netflix "Lesbian Sex and Sexuality" but it looks like good genuine stuff. i'm thinking it could probably answer a few people's FAQs :)
Amen to that, thank you Bill!
The poem . . . makes me weak in the knees - when a woman understands the vibe, and dances to it . . . it is the hottest thing.
Owl, how about you...ever heard of this?
Outstanding addition . . . gorgeous . . . "I felt like I had never told the truth in my whole life until that moment" . . . exactly.
BTW - When are you going to publish that thing and quit teasing us all with these snippets?
But, Frida....WOW. That scene...I wanted to be her. All for a dance with a beautiful woman. That's it...that's the thing.
Getting my novel published...um..okay...I actually will start working on that. I didn't want to let go of it...not the whole thing..you know...it's like letting go of her....
not that i'm trying to sell it. i just discovered it this week, and it seemed connected here. henceforth i shall keep my porn insight to myself ;)
Of course, if I was with a woman who wanted to watch porn, I would go there with her...
fake o's
i'm done.
thanks again for writing on this xo
But never mind that, I'm very happy to be included in the dialogue.
Me too *smiles* Very... *searches for phrase* thought provoking.
Thank you.
I'm not stone (though I totally understand your love of blow jobs, oooohh yeessssss!), or necessarily attached to one cock (though I have my faves), so when I get asked the how do you satisfy/equipment question, I'm like, What's not to love about having every size a woman wants, duh? She can either try my assortment, or if she already knows her ring size, she can pick out her very own brand new one (or two or three since she might like variety)! And of course that's just one option. I mean, do you want the entire list of how I satisfy? (And do you have enough money for several pitchers since this may take a while?)
Fab post! Loved the Lesbians poster. Too funny! And, yes, it's startling sometimes how many people think these are the only lesbians. But then, again, I have not run across many other butchies writing in (mainstream?) public forums, so it makes sense that people are tentative in their questions. Looks like Owl and I are up for helping you educate! Well done, and make sure you tell us when we can buy that novel! Hot DAMN, America is looking better all the time, indeed! (Now tell us something seXXXy, Owl!)
so here's the thing...in my humble opinion. We don't ask or talk about it because we "assume" it is all the same. As in...oh you are straight so I guess you do it like me. duh.. But, when you add in a new flavour (sexual persuasion), all bets are off and suddenly we are all...oh...erm...how do you do that? But it is not all the same in the same sex world. I can honestly say that each relationship is totally unique. Sure the basic mechanics are the same, but the rest is all up for grabs.
"you know someone is straight and you know they're thinking about that when they look at you. You just know it. And even weirder: okay, I never think about straights having sex. My fantasies run along my own lines...you know?"
so I never think about straights having sex either...except with me. ooops. ;) And I don't think I go far down the path of imagining how gays have sex because, well, that's their sex. not mine. Does that make sense?
still, robin, a great post. I think that when people stop wondering about gay sex and realize that sex is sex to a certain degree, then maybe...just maybe, we will get over some of this crap.
And Reddit too.
It is pretty amazing to be writing about this in a mainstream forum...I decided to just do it! It's my way of fighting the fight....and I'm glad you're up for educating, because we need more more more of it.
As for something sexy how about: Coyote's erotica?
Thank you for that.
"I think that when people stop wondering about gay sex and realize that sex is sex to a certain degree, then maybe...just maybe, we will get over some of this crap."
I wholeheartedly agree! There are far too many labels, including within the gay community, regarding who is doing what to whom using what apparatus. For example, for what it's worth, I have slept with men and had a nice time. And for me it was very "that was fun - oh you're staying? I'll be sleeping on the couch." It was a great way to pass some time.
It wasn't personal, but certain friction on certain parts will produce a physiological reaction which can be pleasurable.
When I kissed Raven . . . the earth moved, and I suddenly understood why poetry and song claimed people would die for love. The planets came into alignment. Even though I couldn't be sure we would be together for any length of time.
As Robin stated so eloquently above, "I felt like I had never told the truth in my whole life until that moment."
JK- you are way ahead of the curve! Namaste.
shit, shit, shit. Really????!!! shit well shit. damn robin, you ruined EVERYTHING.
crap. ~~sigh~~ back to regular fantasies then. ~~sigh~~
;)
Oh shit...in the straight world we call that marriage. ::gah:: apparently, I am getting this all wrong...so very very wrong.
Now I am beginning to believe the myth that all gays have great sex all the time. Tell me there is such a thing as bad sex in the gay world? go ahead, burst my bubble.
Keep posting Robin. I am sure I will get it right soon enough.
:)
JK - Are you telling me that "using men for pleasure than dismissing them to their own beds" is how straight marriage works? 'Cuz if that's the case, I would have thought (stereotypically, mind you) men would be on their knees all the time, begging to get married!
Of course, it's possible that you ARE the vixen . . . in which case, that might have been your experience. ;~)
you got me all confused when you introduced pizza into the mix. Next week, let's talk about sex among foodies. :) Did I tell you I had chicken mole on Sunday. Was like sex on a plate. mmmmm
Of course, it's possible that you ARE the vixen . . . in which case, that might have been your experience. ;~)"
Ah Owl, you and Robin have got me in a tizzy now. Actually, and I may be generalizing, but using men for pleasure (theirs and yours) and then giving them space to sleep alone or whatever ... it actually seems to work for many men. Kinda like giving them their own TV room. In fact, my husband has his own home and me mine. (men don't always realize how good this works up front, and even then, they are a little uncomfortable with the freedom it gives the woman...shhh, don't tell them)
I don't know about them being on their knees for marriage...but I get the being on their knees part though... ;)
ok...I am now off to bed. you' two are getting me into trouble.
My "having sex with a man" phase was primarily during my "trying to be a girl" phase, which may well have been a function of my "trying not to go to hell" phase of "trying to be normal." Due to the severity of hell, I tried it with several partners (one at a time - sheesh) of various ages/skill levels - almost scientifically. I also almost married a very sweet male friend of mine who turned out to be gay - I know - what a surprise!
As such, it was a little like using a vibrator - yeah, the orgasm was an orgasm (when one could be had - how do straight women do that with a man? I understand the fantasy aspect, as well as the faking it, but really? On a regular basis?) but it wasn't exactly chemistry-related. (Not to denigrate vibes or men - just that it wasn't chemistry, it was friction.)
When I kissed a girl, my world made sense - the rest of the world no longer did. I finally got to be the boy I'd always been - thank god/dess!
Oh Robin darling, please do NOT be gentle with me!
I am oh so honored to consider you a friend.
Bad sex - bad sex is any sexually associated contact that reduces intimacy between individuals.
I feel so lucky to have stumbled across such a great forum of thinkers and lovers.
What's wrong with "(not really even that) butch in the streets, femme in the sheets"?? ;)
"Of course, if I was with a woman who wanted to watch porn, I would go there with her..." - is there anything a butch wouldn't do for her girl? love it.
I'm never sorry for reading you, and that's a hell of a statement given your subject matter. Integrity, sensitivity, and courage.
Thanks for opening my mind a bit.
Around here, I think we're all Accidental Tourists...
And there's very little a butch won't do for a femme...but I do have a couple of NO's: rough is beautiful, but no asking me to actually hit, and no cutting play.
The term I've used to describe myself (as coined by one of my best friends) is "chude" - chick on the outside, dude on the inside. The inside wins, when it comes to energy.
spanking is fine?
I KNEW I was a girl but the thought of growing up to be like my mom was so disappointing. I still have some trouble feeling like a girl and even more trouble feeling like a "woman". I love men, though, and have never felt an emotional love-like connection with a woman, even though I have close female friends.
Yours is a great, dark, full heart, Robin Sneed.
There's a film...Unfaithful...Richard Gere and Diane Lane...where she is having an affair with a french guy...and she becomes angry with herself for what she's doing and in a very hot film scene, she starts slapping his chest...but still pulling him closer...I've had that happen. With my wife...and wow. But, no hitting back. That's just...unacceptable in every way I can imagine...
Dicea, god that is such a truthful and sussinct way to put it
"sometimes I get a feeling of female 'purity' in that sense" It's funny Robin, but I've only ever been with Karen as far as women go, and yes, it's something about purity. I'm sure that's a large part of the unhealthy side of our relationship. The part that keeps us from having sex anymore. I read s&m to get off, but I put Karen no where near that content in my mind, she does not belong there, she is untouchable in that aspect. (although I do spank her as much as I can get away with) I don't want her to be that way, I think if she did all of a sudden get all sexual on me, a quiet part of me would be fundamentally appalled.
I think that's been the first thing I've written on OS that hasn't been said to Karen first.
I'm working on a post about gender roles in a few lesbian relationships I know well. How times have changed!
And I have to ask, why would you be appalled? What fundamentally about that...gives you pause? Juliieeeee....are you a repressed butch s and m person? The unexpressed male...thinking he should somehow protect that purity...? Wow. You rock.
In my case, I am a tie wearer for instance. I love ties. There are butch women who don't. Anyway...just small stuff like that...
This! I can't tell you how many of my "homosexual" experiences have involved the most innocent, peaceful, intimate, quiet company with another female. Sometimes sensual, hair-brushing or holding hands, but hardly anything to get excited about in terms of taboo. And yet, even as sweet and harmless as those moments are, my partner or an observer at the moment might consider that to be inherently kinky or wrong.
Then again, when I've shared similar quiet intimate moments with a male, I've always felt a little perverse and wicked inside. Maybe it is daring to share a sweetness with another human being of our own choosing that makes that sharing so very sweet.
Thank you for keeping me thinking.
This is, to me, the funniest thing about the perception of us as purely and overtly sexual beings. How little they know!
Julie, when you go to cry just remember one thing: Each of us, however tough or clever or well written we might seem, has been sitting and crying and utterly heart broken at one time or another. When you're feeling most alone and sad and broken up inside, we're right there with you. Fighting over the last kleenex in the box.
It's funny, isn't it? We toss around our observations and lessons learned here almost easily, but every lesson we've learned has been learned the hard way, with pain and tears and suffering. Thank goodness we can gather here and share.
Man, do lessons ever come at a cost!
And yes, I agree, Life is a serious of the most luxurious high end lessons...
%;-)
I grin when I try to reconcile the twin images of queers as sex-fiends and queers as eternal emotion debaters.
And yet, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Thank you for your good humor and your perseverance.
I often wonder if anyone can actually understand and appreciate the depth of emotion or pain happening within another human.
Our Family lost one of our most uniting members this past autumn. I don't have the words to describe what this loss has meant or what I really feel about it. However painful it is for me, I cannot compare that pain to what is felt by another. Pain is not quantitative. It is absolute. It is a purely individual experience that nobody else can judge, take away, or cure.
I am so very proud, and selfishly pleased that you have been able to write and put your words out here. I'm tickled and giggling imagining you flirting with the coffee lady. I am happy that you are alive and here in this life.
A butch's feeeeeeeeeelings are never discussed, but they are always accepted, listened to, respected, and considered... then it's usually time for me to make her breakfast.
Wheras my wife can be close friends with straight women, and even pass for straight without even trying, I miss talking about real life with people that "get it." I try not to be threatening to straight women who are insecure about EVERYTHING, or to straight men who are threatened by my energy.
It takes a toll, toning it down.
This post, in particular, has punched some holes in my armor, in ways I wouldn't have expected. So thanks, all, for that.
One of my best friends and I periodically had what Raven called "chude chat." She could only stand listening to it for so long because it's so indirect (according to her). My friend lost a dear pet, who had finished it's time on earth. She came over to drink beer and smoke cigars.
Every time Raven walked in to join us for awhile, we were talking about mismatched socks, the weather, who was hot, whatever. My friend would say a few words about the cat, then we'd gravitate towards the other meaningless subjects.
Raven was so pissed at me for not making my friend talk about the cat, until I explain that we HAD talked about the cat. In little pieces, all night. Raven missed the subtext - with butches, it's in there.
And it sure does take a toll, toning it down...
Proviso: don't answer if you don't want to - I ask because I've been asked, often, and I'm curious about how other butches might answer.
If one could wave a magic wand, and give you the body of a man, would you want to be a man, and why?
My answer is no, I wouldn't - and believe me I've thought about it. It would be so much easier for my family of choice if I just transitioned. Theoretically, I could move more easily in the world. But I wouldn't do it because I like being a butch. I like who I am. When I realized that, about 7 years ago, it was a happy day.
I love Chude Chat! It's like a plant orbiting around a sun, it comes back to the same place over and over again, but maybe in a slightly different plane. It talks all around an issue before dealing with the issue. It handles all of the conditions and relations from a bit of a distance and maybe gets to the root of the issue most firmly.
And darn your sweet feathery hide for bringing up a full blog essay question like that! If I had a bucket of bourbon and ten hours to write, I'd do my best to answer your question in full.
In short, my answer would be Yes, in a heart beat... if, and only if, I could keep my teats and my voice as they are now.
Now, you gotta sneak a picture of the coffee lady for us!
(never underestimate how sexy a good understanding of geography, language, anthropology, and culture can be.)
*puzzled cackle* how on earth can people not know Ellen is butch?
Or is it a "Butches recognise other butches"
Cos they don'y always *cackles again*
Webbi xox *smiles*
I have trouble seeing Ellen as a "Butch". She's dykey, she's a bit androgynous, she's been through some phases that are more butch than others. And she's never gone really Femme.
A Butch makes me want to melt against her, a Femme makes me want to be big and protective and courteous, an androgen makes me want to break out my David Bowie LPs.
Webb....are you butch? xox
I could hear the intake of breath from across the street. Sure enough, the guys at the warehouse, one by one, ended up having to come over here and tell me how shocked they were that I, uh, got their attention in such a way. As in "have you ever worked for a 1-900 service?"
I just said, "you're welcome." Talk about making the boys sweat bullets!
Yes, Robin, it is the drive to show manners and by showing proper manners offering behavior that is not mannerly at all, at a specific request and with conscious attention and vigor.
Ask her out. Do it. The worst that can happen is that she's impressed by your bravery. The best that can happen... honey, I'll just leave that to your imagination (and the imaginations of everyone else who is following this comment thread).
Ask her.
It's that, for me, every single fucking time. Those damn jeans. I melt. And then I flirt. I then I am a mess.
Shit. I better shut up.
Very fine post and conversation kiddo. I dare say I've read plenty to learn from too.
Reading this, Robin?
I am kind of choking up here. This is so powerful.
namaste to all.
:D Rough is awesome, spanking is double fun and BITING is yummy too (nothing that breaks skin of course) Meow! Anyone here ever been nibbled on at the height of orgasm?
Hmmmm.
You're going to be fine. You are the courtly friend first . . . start there.
just stumbled upon this out there on the interwebs. to me it speaks to that power each has over the other, strong but equal, in my experience.
and maybe jealous. of the femme.
enjoy these first moments!
Led to a lot of soul searching, that question.
Robin.... I *look* femme (long hair, but that's it), but I've had more people tell me I'm butch than tongue could tell.
I don't quite know *how* I classify, but I do know I'm not comfortable being female usually. Pregnancy is the only exception to this, then I'm happy being female.
Owl.... "If one could wave a magic wand, and give you the body of a man, would you want to be a man, and why?"
Just for one day? Yes. In a heartbeat. I'm not particularly comfortable being in a female body, and I wonder if I'd feel better or worse in a male body.
xox
I agree - the early days were . . . what they were . . . absolutely shook the building down to the bare earth, and had to reset the foundation. Maturity in love brings a whole new enjoyment of the experience - and each moment. Blessings, Robin . . . Namaste.
My heart is full on your behalf - y por ella tambien.
Now *smiles* I'm happy your date went so well. Enjoy the now, as halfof said, as a good beginning to something that could (and hopefully will) keep getting better. xox
...she walks in beauty like the night...
I thought to myself, she's being born in this very moment....
Why is the universe doing this to me?
Perhaps you need the right butch to stand next to . . . hand in the small of your back . . .
what's in your mind may escape, but what's in
your heart will remain forever. There is no
instinct like that of the heart....Lord Byron.
True for all of us...I think. But even when you think it's safe, beware the hidden dagger.
Oh yeah - that was the other very hot main stream movie - "Bound" - I've been searching for that title for the last 3 days!
you sound like you are floating. so glad to hear your evening was charmed.
Namaste.
::blushing at my accidental, uh, whatever::
Here is what I mean by that - when Raven and I got together, it allowed my energy to flow the way it was meant to. I was finally (mostly) comfortable with my boy-ness. Part of it was simply her acceptance - she saw me for who I was - and it was conveyed through the simplest of gestures.
After almost 14 years, I often feel most myself when I'm in her presence.
The whole first part of this comment is precisely why I'm a doofus.
Apologies, all, for any misunderstanding.
I would not have reassignment surgery. I like being an underdog and a rebel, and I don't want to lose that. It is a big part of my identity. My partner probably would do the surgery if she could, and I don't know if I could handle that. Good thing it's not an option right now. How could I love this person so deeply and not be able to support her fully in such an effort? I have never thought about that before.
I'm really getting a much better understanding of transgender issues. I was never against it; I just didn't know anyone who had openly done it so I could learn by asking those most basic questions. (Thank you, Elena!) I think I get it now, or at least far more than I did, but in my world, I'd like to think I'd be devoted regardless of the sex of the person I love. Not so. I feel two dimensional and strangely guilty.
My self perception is changing, and that's a bit scary. Growing and learning again. I would still love the person who is my closest, dearest friend, but I don't think I could stay. Wow.
In another odd little twist, the penetration issue was raised. I do not like it at all but Angela does, very much.
We are such a complicated, diverse, and vibrant lot. Be courageous, Leslie, write, ask questions, and learn.
*takes a breath*
Robin...never thought of femme... *waves hand* ... style as armour.. not for myself, certainly.
Karma... you're getting back what you put out... and quoting Byron wholesale has to be a winner in anyone's book *trans: keep talkin'*
If there's one thing I've learnt through *my* interaction with transitioning TS' , is that... being the underdog and rebel *becomes* your entire existence, according to people who don't/can't/won't "get" how important a process it is to the person transitioning.
To me... you are who you are, and extra/fewer appendages simply means that *now* you're truly happy within yourself, outside of familial/social pressures.
If that makes sense.
Robin, if you re-phrase the question, I'll try to answer.
I'm still processing the idea that I'm sexy. I mean, Raven seems to think so, but she could be awfully biased . . . but it's not like she hasn't had other offers - a lot of other offers - and yet, she chooses me, so there's that.
Face it, Owl. You're too sexy for your pants! Raven could have chosen others...she didn't...Beck didn't...there's a reason....
::pointing:: Oh look over there, a house on fire!
julie spanks AND knits
hopeless mute crush on robin grows and grows like on that perfect annie lenox look girl at the club in the eighties who would never say a word to me, but always kissed my hand most gallantly.
dicea???!!!???
sandra is flirting in the nicest, most hetero way possible.
(gonna melt into the office chair any second)
owl - any drinks left? :)
Yeah - I'm better now, almost.
And welcome back, bah!
As with all things, if I solve the inner puzzle, the outer will be more clear.
Plus, the Giant. I know he can take care of himself, but still . . .
(Good point about Gary, by the way. I really dig that guy. Great role model.)
Of course, that's not the question is it?
(Drilling down to where it hurts to find the motherfucking goddamn answers.)
BahMMMblog, that's a lot of punctuation to stick next to one's name. What's the drahmah?
Owl, you're sexy. Trust me on this. That's no burden on you, but an observation and a statement of perception from a healthy perspective.
Robin, you so totally rock. Proud, dear, proud!
Here's the thing...I experienced that single...this isn't your fault...
Here's the kicker. You know the concept of going where you're called? I know we are where we're supposed to be. 'Cuz we've met some people who need us to be there - pouring light into dark cups. We've just started meeting a few GLB folks . . .
We, at least, know there's a whole wide world out there, they don't.
As a kid, I thought I was called to be a missionary. When I came out, my mom was upset that I would never answer that call. I laughed and said that maybe I'd become a gay missionary.
It ain't the jungle, but our people die for lack of vision.
We are either very right, or very crazy/masochistic/delusional. Maybe even all of the above.
Not much - how's everyone else in the room? ::leaning back against the wall, trying to look all casual::
And there is trauma in being the one to pour that light into dark cups....
I can't believe I'm saying this out loud, but I participated in an excorcism of the spirit of homosexuality from a friend of mine. There was no violence in it, except to the spirit, I think now. No holding her down, but still . . .
the sexually experimental are sort of...given a special place
of honor as the leaders toward a new understanding of the sex-
ual nature of the human ...
they are sort of textbooks of what is possible...for all of the boring
straight laced types too timid to experiment but secvretly wishing to...they lead the way by example...
for it is the philosphy of our town that sexual enjoument
is the spiritual path to better days for the whole town,
in that it...loosens the psychosomatic organism up.
allows him/her to get all the bugaboos in their makeup all
ironed out with the satisfaction of fulfilling fantsies
of many different hues
til the right way of life is
found for each of our citizenss, according to his/her
individual karmic configurations...i.e. tastes...
i would advise immigration from that awful town forthwith
especially if it has such odd
chursches...inour town thats where we have sexual artfestivals...
hm
oh...what metaphorically is penetration d'you tink?
jim
Who in this room has not made a few, sometimes many disturbing mistakes? I'm curious about that exorcism experience, frankly. Want to tell?
I am just awed by your courage.
Namaste ladies, you are all lovely and loveable.
This is a very traumatic experience...I'm horrified reading about you experiencing it...you must have felt like you were dying too...
@Leslie - I do, but the setup for it would be too long. In context, it made sense at the time, even though it's a whacked out way of thinking to most people. Without the context (and in retrospect), it is incredibly heartbreaking to me. I want to write about it at some point, but haven't found the words/time/je ne se qua. I wrote a series of posts awhile ago which kind of explains the general context of where I came from religiously - "Hook, Line, and Sinker" - in 3 parts, of course. I hope to edit them someday into something shorter or longer - we'll have to see which!
I'm pretty sure I didn't invite her, because by that time in my life (mid college?) I didn't witness to anyone unless they asked me about what I believed. I figured I could save more souls by not letting them know about Christ, that way they have to be let into heaven, since they didn't know (like babies, so to speak).
That was risking their blood on my hands, spiritually, but hey - at least they wouldn't have the nightmares and guilt.
You are justifying a horrible experience by trying to couch it within context.
When a therapist said that to me I wanted to slap him across the face. I told him so.
He told me that was unacceptable behaviour related to unimaginable behaviour.
He was correct...and I had to sit back and face it.
What's going on here? Is the pain about not saving her?
Dangling on the limb here....because I love you...
Yes - but that's not even remotely the half of it, in terms of the pain related to the whole church thing. That exact experience though - which it figures that I haven't thought about it in years - I not only couldn't save her, I ultimately couldn't save myself.
...she asked me are you a Christian child? And I said, Ma'am I am tonight...
This is communion to me Owl. Thank you. You have fulfilled your calling.
I already hate myself for saying this but:
If anything, she may have gotten off easy (specifically in regards to God-guilt/trauma - nothing else - that's a whole 'nother story too).
She didn't grow up with the escape-proof guilt and condemnation. Her family wasn't part of the church, and so she didn't lose her family by leaving it.
(I haven't lost my family, entirely - but I thought I would - a whole 'nother story)
I know it had to have sickeningly wrong and traumatic for her - and I regret all participation with it - I was such a brain-washed idiot, for awhile.
But I bet she doesn't have dreams featuring all the shit that periodically characterizes mine. And if she connects to the divine (and I pray that she does) I hope that it can be the most sustaining, real part of her life. I hope she finds peace - 'cuz fuck, man - I don't know how to do that.
I get little glimmers, now and again. I know how wrong the shit I was taught is - and I know damn good and well that it was HOW IT WAS TAUGHT - not how it was intended by God.
But . . . how do you undo the crazy?
(Wouldn't dare spank you - you might like it, and then what would the coffee girl do?)
YES!! here you are in all your wonderfulness!! I which I could meet that person and give them a piece of my mind.
also...
http://open.salon.com/blog/kalpanam/2009/07/02/gay_times_in_india
Times are changing everywhere. Just not fast enough.
...i better go before I start to gush and be all girlie. ;)
This is why I said that it is well within my nature to deal with the threat of death, it is at least somewhat true - I spent ages 7 to whenever training to die at a moments notice. But back in the day, I knew I'd be a martyr. Now . . . can't even be sure I won't burn.
Obviously I'm still working through a few things regarding god. But seriously - when Raven and I got together, and I realized it was serious, and that I was serious, I knew that I would go to hell for it.
Okay - I'm heading to the video room now.
And, I would not like you to spank me!! Get Elena....only Elena can spank me!
Nope, don't see it.
Any of the elders in your church have a direct line to god? nope.
It's *their* construct...and if you *are* going to go to hell (which I seriously doubt) make it worth it... love your fullest, and enjoy your life and relationships.
You are an incredible woman... don't lose sight of that.
The metaphorical thing makes sense - I've never thought of it that way.
I don't think there's any legitimate way to know who got off easier. How could anyone know? Theory of Relative Pain - kind of like dicea said somewhere, there's no way to compare it.
Bottom line is - mine is my responsibility.
___________
I have thought about the Episcopals actually. I think that the politics of an organized ministry would kill me (waaaaaaaay to constrained) or I might blow up the place.
______________
As for being created in G-d's image - my heart and my gut tell me that is true. And I will claim it for all living creatures, because I know it must be correct. I see it every day.
Yet the inevitable, completely counter-everything hook that is stuck in my guts - it's barbed. Remove it, and bleed out. (That's where "Hook, Line, and Sinker" came from.)
____________
@Webb - Blessings, sister, truly. That is never disrespectful to point that out - you are absolutely 100% bona-fide correct. I would kiss both your cheeks for your warmth and love and concern (and I'd give Robin a manly hug).
This is exactly the shit I'm in. Some days are better than others.
____________
I'm the only person I know who had to go to therapy because of war in the Middle East - the threat of the apocolypse. That was 3ish years ago.
I marched in Gay Pride Parades as a lay priest...for the Episcopal Church. Parade go-ers wept as we went by....such is the Love of Christ.
@Robin - That is amazing - and good to hear that they've come that far. I would love to hear more about how that impacted you. And I will think about it, too.
And . . . I keep coming back to this: "You are justifying a horrible experience by trying to couch it within context."
That being said, I can only hope that this much openness doesn't backfire and become something else - that I haven't been outed as a looney (not the Canadian coin) or worse. Typically, when I post, I consider the consequences of what feedback I may receive. In this case, I . . . uh . . . responded to what got accidentally tapped.
...with that (strap-on) you can remind a woman of every pain she has ever known....or you can give her incredible pleasure. I didn't know what that meant...but I've spent the rest of my life thinking about it.
-Stone Butch Blues, Leslie Feinberg
That song is perfect . . . for the post, and for the dialogue.
My gratitude for this forum, and to you, Robin, is beyond words. Thank you for your generosity here - in all ways. I am deeply honored, and have much to think about.
And - "Stone Butch Blues" changed my life. Great quote.
I'm really big on risking it all to be honest and open, but I've not been much harmed by it. I do it all the time, in person and on the
Internet. I use my real name. It is liberating for me.
Also kissed cheeks *smiles*
"I'm the only person I know who had to go to therapy because of war in the Middle East - the threat of the apocolypse. That was 3ish years ago." I didn't have a therapist, but if I'd had one, I would have been there too. I know my Bible, and erm... yeah. Three years ago it looked to me that the Apocalypse was on our collective doorstep.
You're not alone, not by a long way.