Starting from Here

Roy Jimenez

Roy Jimenez
Location
Sonoma, California, USA
Birthday
July 01

MARCH 15, 2009 3:57AM

Greek to Me

Rate: 37 Flag

I discovered Greek mythology when I was eight.

School was a one-room building with a wood-burning stove and no plumbing, one teacher, eight grades, about a dozen students in any given year.  There was an entry hall where the firewood was stacked and where in winter we hung our coats, mittens, scarves, and caps and lined up our galoshes against the wall.  This was the fifties, but some of our textbooks predated the war, including the small thick brown volume illustrated with black and white reproductions of classical paintings and vintage photographs that was mine for the fourth grade, my first history book.

In this book I encountered Rome and Carthage, the Magna Carta, Marco Polo, the discovery and exploration of the New World, the battles of Lexington and Bunker Hill, Napoleon, the Civil War, the League of Nations.  It was history as a series of stories aimed at young readers, so I suppose it's not surprising that it included both King Canute and Alfred the Great, Remus and Romulus as well as Julius Caesar, Old Testament tales like Joseph and the Pharaoh, David and Goliath, but most glorious of all, the Greeks with their myths and their gods.

I'd already read the stories of Pandora and the Golden Fleece in books at home, but now I discovered the Trojan War and the wanderings of Odysseus, the legends of Theseus and Prometheus, the Olympian gods with their intrigues, jealousies and rivalries.  It was the most thrilling stuff I'd ever come across, and I wanted more.

The newest books in the school were a set of the World Book encyclopedia, and I had the good luck in the fourth grade to sit next to the bookshelf where they sat.  I usually finished my lessons with time to spare before reviewing them with Mrs. Hartson, and used that time to hunt through the World Book for anything to do with myths.  I quickly learned the use of an index and methodically worked through every sub-reference under "Mythology", looking up the entries in the "see also" list at the end of each article, following every branch until it looped back on itself or petered out.  I found Greek stories that weren't in my history book, as well as different versions of stories I already knew, tales from Norse and Asian mythologies, folklore and legends.  My determination to extract every shred of information related to myths led to some unexpected places, like a branch I followed from Valhalla and Valkyries, through Brunhilda to Wagner's Ring Cycle and plot synopses of famous operas.  Mythology opened a new window to the world for me.

My mother disapproved of violent comic books.  I think she must have been one of those parents who got alarmed by The Seduction of the Innocents, and I wasn't allowed to read anything stronger than Scrooge McDuck.  So instead of Superman and Batman, my superheroes were Perseus, Jason and Thor, who succeeded to the place of honor reserved by the many Jacks and other plucky lads whose adventures I had heard over and over again, sitting beside my grandmother on her bed as she read to me from the Red, Green, Blue and Yellow Fairy Books of Andrew Lang.

But even when I was big enough to pick out my own comics, I kept my interest in tales of gods, titans and legendary heroes.  As I grew up I discovered T. H. White's Arthurian epic The Once and Future King, Mary Renault's magnificent retelling of the life of Theseus in The King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea, had my mind opened up by James Fraser's The Golden Bough and Joseph Campbell's The Hero with 1,000 Faces.

I got another perspective on Greek mythology in a graduate seminar on Greek and Roman theatre at Berkeley in the '70s.  It was an opportunity to experience these stories as interpreted by the greatest poets of Athens at the height of her civilization, in whose hands the raw material of gods, heros and legends was crafted into artistic and philosophic explorations into the nature and meaning of existence.

In the works of Euripides in particular, the Olympian gods are sometimes emblems of extreme human passions, and in other cases metaphors for the pitiless power of natural forces.  In one of his plays, Ion, Apollo is depicted as having raped a young women, and later lying through the Delphic oracle to cover up his crime.  It's an astonishing depiction of a deity, especially when you consider that the Greek tragedies were presented as the centerpieces of an annual religious festival sponsored by the city-state, and that the pronouncements of the oracle at Delphi were regularly consulted on matters of state and considered in both religious and political orthodoxy to be the infallible word of a god.

When you consider the Greek myths in the context of the society from whom we inherited them, as part of a religious system, it's apparent that the meanings attached to them by the people who actually lived in that society varied over a wide range of belief from naive credulity to spiritual awe and inspiration, informed skepticism and outright cynicism -- not very different, in fact, from the range of belief in the myths and traditional stories that comprise much of the literature of the dominant religions in our own times.

A couple of differences between the religious ideas of the Greeks of twenty-six hundred years ago and current belief strike me as particularly significant.

First, I'm not aware of any set of codified, authoritative sacred texts which were considered to be immutable truth, the way contemporary fundamentalists view the Koran, for example, or the Bible.  Artistic reinterpretation not just of ancient stories but also of the natures and characters of the gods themselves was not only tolerated, but encouraged, supported and honored as a vital element of religious practice in classical Athens, the society that laid the foundations of art, philosophy and science for all of Western civilization.

Second, the Greek creation myth traces the genesis of all gods, demigods, titans, humans, animals back to a single divine ancestress, Gaia the All-Mother, the Earth.  Even her consort, Ouranos the sky god, is first her son.  This explanation of the origin of our living world is a simple precise metaphor that expresses in poetic terms what we in the twenty-first century know to be true from the last six hundred years of scientific discovery.  We all come from the Earth and to her we return, like a drop of rain flowing to the ocean.

Looking back five and a half decades after my introduction to the Greeks, I have to say I think they got some things right.

You could do a lot worse.

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My god, this is wonderful. You write for a living, don't you? Maybe you teach. You know your material and actually held my interest on a subject that I know almost nothing about and didn't think I cared about. Of course, it's preferable to reinvent our gods, change their stories as our cultural needs change and our insight into society and human nature deepens. Thanks for the brand new thought.
As I grew up I discovered T. H. White's Arthurian epic The Once and Future King, Mary Renault's magnificent retelling of the life of Theseus in The King Must Die. I had my experience with these exact books in my early twenties, and have never forgotten them. I was always entertained by the myths myself and anyone who read McSrooge comics is a kindred spirit. Great writing as usual....
Excellent, Roy! What a great point. Blind religion is dangerous to the nth degree. The fact the the Greeks encouraged open thinking, Makes perfect sense. How little we've learned in the last 2600 years.
This is a great piece, Roy; it's personal, informative, thoughtful, and above all well-written. Just wonderful.
lovely essay. A few years ago, CBC Radio did a series on the 5 most important books you must read. Among them was Homer's The Odessy. I read it for the first time and completely enjoyed it. When I studied art history, the time spent on ancient Greece was among my favourite.

In 2006, I was fortunate to spend 3 weeks travelling/sailing in Greece. The people there have this sense of pride that is quite amazing. When faced with outsiders who are looking for the closest MacDonalds or a North American style coffee, there attitude seems to say 'hey, we've been doing this longer than anyone, so if you don't like our calamari, our wine or our coffee, too bad....go back where you came from.' I loved it.
Beautiful esssay. I have often found that the mythos of the Greek and Roman religions offer a handle, an insight on human behavior that the Judeo Christian tradition lacks.

One of the things the ancients understood about humans was how easily duped we can be, enthusiastically joining a legion or burning down a city or tossing our lives away for love and desire. Not "good" but "capricious", the divinities took great pleasure in manipulating us through labyrinthine adventures, occasionally bestowing insight, but more typically condemning us to serve as a melancholy lesson to our fellows, even as stars in the sky.

To the ancients we are only the blind, swept away by cosmic games and natural forces far beyond our control or understanding, struggling against the odds for the fleeting heroic moment. Perhaps the Judeo-Christian tradition is only a wrapper, like a pretty tissue disguising a mystery, torn away to reveal ignorance, terror and hubris underneath. And yet monotheism does offer one thing that the earlier myths lack: redemption.
Excellent piece. I always enjoyed reading Mythology. Blind faith is a dangerous thing, but isn't that what all religions are based on the blind faith in something or someone. Something we can't see or touch but we all have the faith in some kind of Higher Power then ourselves.
Thank you for this great post..
Enjoyed this.

In grade school we had bible stories, but also Greek mythology. Guess which we enjoyed more. My friends and I used to play Greek mythological characters - I don't remember ever playing biblical characters. There was an old rocking chair in the basement of my childhood home, and my friends and I used that as a chariot. (Sorry, M'sieu - or perhaps you like being roughly ridden...tho the by-pre-adolescents is a bit touchy.)

The changes in Greek mythology are interesting too - esp. with respect to gender. It was Bacchus, if I've got it right, who once was torn to pieces by screaming females and taken under the earth to be resurrected in the spring, long before passive Persephone got kidnapped and raped by Hades... Anyway, that whole aspect is a bit of an 'obby 'orse for me.

Next month a friend (my high priest, actually, and a bit of a Bacchus type) and I are going to Greece, first stop Delphi. Let's see if any prophecies come thru! I'll have blogging material anyway.

We're going to try to visit a (currently) farm near Rome which was the Sacred Grove that inspired Frazer to do his Golden Bough.

And, just for the hell of it, the remains of Crowley's Abbey of Thelema in Sicily, in between Greco-Roman sites and lots of red wine (did I mention Bacchus?)

Was at Troy in the spring - but my real interests go before that, to the (supposed) peaceful Goddess cultures of the Stone Age. But the Greeks were unsurpassed at chronicling the human psyche in all its messiness (yet rather more coherently, at least in classical times, than some - I'm thinking of you, Mabinogen - the tales, not the OS poster...)
This is great and I particularly like the first point of your conclusion that the Greeks invited questioning and other interpretations of their sacred texts. Imagine that-- it is so based on reason ;0)
Roy, as always you approach your subject beautifully. I love the akkadian/sumerian cycles, too.
Great post. Growing up Greek, even though it was in Egypt, Greek myths and stories are so part of our story. As a child we would have religious study and Greek history, starting in first grade from the mythology. I found the ancient Greek stories more pleasant and more human. I can still see the first grade book with the image of Icarus .
I always found it appealing that the Greek deities were not just fallible, but prone to bad habits, lust, rages, fear and cowardice. Just like man. Those stories were more enlightening than any about some being who was so perfect as to be unapproachable.
Each society creates its myths to help explain our place in the world. The Greeks must have done something right, for their mythology has persisted an awfully long time. Even when we don't believe in their deity, the behavior of those anthropomorphized gods and goddesses helps us understand our own failings and passions.

I like your tidbit about sitting next to the World Books. I used to spend a lot of my free time as a child browsing the World Books in our home. I think children today, who do their browsing on the computer, are missing out when they don't have the chance to accidentally come across something interesting in an encyclopedia that you actually hold in your hand and sift through the pages.
I have been waiting and waiting for a new post from you!

As a teacher of World History...I love teaching about the Greeks. Gorgeous mythos. Brutal, passionate, intriguing, deep. If you can find it, the poet Ted Hughes has a stunning audio reading of the Metamophoses of Ovid (I know, I know...he's a damn Roman...but was retelling the Greek tales). He (Ted, not Ovid...tee,hee) has a deeply resonant voice and is well suited to telling the tales. It's erotic and violent and soothing at the same time...very visual if sound can be that...synaesthesia, maybe...there's a great Greek word!

And Hesiod's Theogony is available free...on the interwebs. Cool, huh?

I have to say Aristophanes is my favorite playwright, and he has little to say of the gods, but much to say of human nature...Clouds is a particular favorite, but maybe Lysistrata is even better.

Thanks for this...I loved the image of the school and your love of learning nurtured there. I was in love with the set of Britannica that my parents went into serious hock to buy, myself. I adored encyclopaedias! Good stuff Roy.
Sweet! I was drawn to Egyptian Mythology from the age of 8 . . . then in the later years of High school, I discovered the works of Joseph Campbell . . .awesome would be an understatment. lol

Rated . . . .:)
Sirenita, you're so kind, no, actually I don't write for a living, in fact, this blog is the first writing I've done since leaving school for the last time over thirty years ago, with the exception of an occasional letter to the editor. I have been teaching part-time for the last three years, but as a theatre artist, so what I teach is acting, and I direct students in plays

I sold my business last summer, and while thrashing around wondering what to do, discovered OS as a venue for trying out writing and getting some feedback

I'm glad you enjoyed this essay
hi, doc, I'm glad you came by.

I discovered T.H. White when he lectured at my college during my freshman year, I attended his speech and was totally fascinated, a few weeks later Time magazine published his death notice, as I recall he had died on a cruise ship returning to England from his American lecture tour, they mentioned TOAFK as his best known work, I promptly went out and bought a copy and have reread it several times, including once out loud with my wife, one of the greatest books I know

As for Mary Renault, I discovered The King Must Die in the same box of paperbacks from which I obtained my copy of Leaves of Grass, as I described in my favorite poem post. I've read every one of her Greek history novels, with The Persian Boy, The Mask of Apollo and Fire from Heaven my top favorites

And Scrooge McDuck, the best damn comics ever!
Michael R and Rob, thank you so much for showing up and for your kind comments, I admire both of you immensely for your own writing skills
JK, I spent a little time in Greece in my wandering years, 1972 to be precise, I found them to be the most hospitable people in any European country I visited, I might blog one of these days about the time a British traveling companion and I were hosted, fed, wined and honored with a dance party just for showing up in a little village miles off the nearest paved highway
This hit a particular note with me. I first discovered Edith Hamilton's Greek Mythology when I was in elementary school. I couldn't wait to write reports about the Muses in 4th Grade, much to the dismay of my teacher who had never heard of them nor seemed to care about their impact on our own language and culture.

By later elementary or junior high I had found a book of Bulfinch's Mythology. At first, it was the ornate gold-embossed hard cover which caught my attention. (Opening it again I was shocked to discover that I had proudly written my name on the inside cover). Besides giving additional detail on the Greek Myths, this also helped me become acquainted with the Mabinogen and the old Welsh, Irish and British myths as well as Egyptian legends. Isis and Hecate, Rhiannon and Puyll and so many others became part of my world. At a time in my life when so many things have been lost and so much of me has been reinvented countless times, it shouldn't surprise me that I always know where to find this book.

Thank you for writing this.
I understand.
Rated and enjoyed.

I still have my old D'Aulaires' Book of Greek Myths. My daughter went through a phase five years ago where she read it through, and emptied the library of anything mythological, as well.

Have you read Watership Down? I love Richard Adams' myths of El-ahrairah, the prince with a thousand enemies.
Oh yes, you must blog on that trip. Someday I'll blog on our trip to these little islands that were only accessible by boat. Amazing people, great food, wonderful history.

thanks for this.
Sirenita recommended that I come over here and read this, and now I have I see what she was talking about. Rated for a cool look at mythology and for mentioning T. H. White, Mary Renault and Joseph Campbell, than which there is none higher.

And rated again if I could for Cindy mentioning El-Ahrairah! How cool is that!?!
I commented last night, twice. Argh.

Flow of consciousness, upon reading and remembering some similar childhood interest in mythology, World Book, reading everything I could see, finally led me to remembering my favorite cartoon, Hercules, and its theme song:

Hercules, hero of song and story!
Hercules, winner of ancient glory!
Fighting for the right, fighting with his might;
With the strength of ten, ordinary men!
Hercules, people are safe when near him!
Hercules, only the evil fear him!
Softness in his eyes, iron in his thighs;
Virtue in his heart, fire in every part of
The Mighty Hercules!

That, I thought, was something to aspire to be. Well, I was a kid, I might have left out the thunder thighs.

I was wondering, did you read The White Goddess by Robert Graves? He had some interesting theories. I read it just after Hero With a Thousand Faces. Hero I enjoyed, White Goddess I endured, but still think was useful but voluminous beyond my interest.

Your writing here was wonderful, I was right there with you. Since most early information was not transmitted in written form, it is hard to know what religious beliefs folks carried and then dropped. It's possible that there was some dogmatic, codified religion that wasn't written. That doesn't mean there weren't those who were meant to remember and transmit those ideas and rules. There are things about the past that we will never know.

By the way, there was a comment by Emma Peel that disappeared. She mentioned Edith Hamilton's Mythology and said she's had her used copy so long that she paid 10 cents for it! I have it sitting next to Hero.
Hi Roy, I saw your response to my comment last night! It's too bad OS had a snafu. I rated this again (or tried to, just in case the first one didn't take.)
Guess my rating disappeared because I was able to make the # go up. My comment still seem to be here (unless I'm reading a cache and not the real thing...)
I loved studying Greek mythology when I was in school, and I'm enjoying all over again as my children learn it. Thanks for this well-written piece, Roy.

By the way, I just have to give a shout-out to Cindy Ross for mentioning Watership Down, one of my very favorite books of all time. :)
Very interesting read Roy. Kudos
Rated
I loved Greek mythology as a kid (still do in fact) and it was a central part of my early reading programs. From there it seemed natural to move to Arthurian legend and Robin Hood; then my adventures first to the near-here, with the Little House series, then to outer space with Asimov and Bradbury. But the early Greek myths were one of my first loves, to the point I even wrote a myth, myself (starring Certes).

loved this read, thanks for the ride!
I, too, went to a one-room school, similar to the one you described, but there were no marvelous old books like you had.

This was a fascinating post. It inspires me to do some reading on Greek mythology.
Such interesting timing this has, not to mention the beautiful structure and arc of something so very crucial to civilized people -- and the not-so-civilized, I suppose. My god, this is a keeper, Roy. I got my exposure (and this is why the interesting timing) to mythology from Fahey, who had a masters in it and mythologized everything to me in conversation, lived that kind of immediast mystery and of course I followed. And here we are. I am in awe of every aspect of this piece and its author. Sets the mind on fire all over again...
they did indeed. amazing all the times and placed you could visit from the little one room school house.
Quelle plaisir, M Chariot, de vous recevoir dans mon salon

my much longer response was eaten twice last night, as I writing when the server was shut down for maintenance, I rewrote it when the server came up and it was among those lost in the flood

one point I don't want to lose is that while the Christian flavor of monotheism promises redemption, that doesn't necessarily mean that it actually delivers, the promise may be no more than an element of the core myth.

Also, I'd argue that in the Mahabharata, the great sacred text of Hinduism which is surely a polytheistic belief system, Yudhisthira's passage of the final ordeals that gain him admittance into paradise are also a passage of redemption for his sins and those of his family, and point the way to redemption for all believers
fireeyes, I'm glad you liked this piece, I think we can have faith that's not blind, but that's informed by intuition, reason, doubt, experience, a sense of beauty, a faith that can grow and change with the seasons of our lives
Myriad, my response to you was also lost in the fire, but I want to wish you a great trip to Greece and Italy. I was in Delphi and loved it, there was a small temple across the main road and down the hill from the main temple complex that I particularly loved, a beautiful meditative setting
Dorinda, Cat, Stellaa, Ardee, thanks for coming, I had more to say to each of you, but those comments were swept away
Yes, Procopius, the World Book was a wonderful resource for self-guided education, but we amy be among the last to get our book-learning from actual books
yekdeli, thanks for waiting, there was more to my original response, but I have to reiterate that Aristophanes is a lot of fun, but Euripides' plays have a wider of range of tone and theme than any of the other writings that survive from this period, check out his "Orestes", it's punk nihilism 26 centuries ahead of time
miko, thanks for coming by

RenLady, I first read the stories from the Mabinogen in Evangeline Walton's retellings, terrific stories, especially Prince of Pwyll, and you're welcome and thanks for understanding

Cindy, I loved Watership Down, have to reread it soon

nanate, yours was the last comment to survive the night, you got me to reminisce about how I discovered White and Renault, but it's too much to go over it all again
Susanne, I'm so glad you came back, I never saw your earlier comments

I do know The White Goddess, but was never able to actually plow through the whole thing, dipped in and out of it

Thanks for letting me know that emma was here, I never saw it
Cindy and Myriad, so kind of you to come back, I guess your original comments were early enough to have been saved before the disaster
Lisa, Blue, glad you liked it

sandra, yes, I had the Howard Pyle Robin Hood on my bookshelf from early childhood and have read more versions of the Arthur cycle than I can remember, also graduated to science fiction, which I still love, Heinlein was one of my early favorites

I'd love to read your original Greek myth

thanks for riding
Suzn, I'd like to read your reminiscences of the one-room school, maybe there's a blog post in there?

and read more myths! :~)
Calhoun, my good friend, I'm glad you came by and liked the piece, very interesting synchronicity re: Fahey, what a fascinating guy he must have been

Capn, you can set sail from a little room like that and reach any port in the world
This is great writing and you have put so much thought into it. I had a Humanities teacher in high school who introduced us to mythology. Brunhilda was quite the woman, and not many women have been responsible for instigating war in the honor of her sister and then reigning as Queen. I always thought this was a great story.

Your post makes me want to read more mythology, so interesting. Thanks for a very informative post, Roy!
Just got to this - enjoyed it! I loved studying mythology in high school, and I still reflect back on it more often than I'd expected. (I also still have Edith Hamilton's basic book on Greek mythology around here somewhere.) I found it captivating in a way that history wasn't to me at the same age (it is more so, now). You make me want to go and read more.
How marvelous to meet someone from such a similar background. I attended a one-room school house with 26 kids K-6 in one room with one teacher. There was a cloak-room before the classroom with an indoor toilet over a deep-pit.

Because of these conditions, I was one of the guinea pigs for what was called "programmed learning" in those days, which essentially meant you taught yourself. It was an innocent age I can't imagine existing much of anywhere in 21st Century America.
Thanks, J Pamela, silkstone, I'm glad you both enjoyed it and that I've inspired you and others to read more mythology

Tom, so you're another alumnus of the one-room school. By the time I reached what would now be the middle school grades, I was resentful of what I imagined I was missing from watching the teen-oriented serials on the Mickey Mouse Club, but I now know that the personal attention and freedom to explore that I enjoyed would have been impossible in the crowded and regimented classrooms that are more typical today. Western # 2 (the designation of my school) closed in 1960, one year after I'd moved on to high school
Roy,

Nicely written, as usual. You write, “This explanation of the origin of our living world is a simple precise metaphor that expresses in poetic terms what we in the twenty-first century know to be true from the last six hundred years of scientific discovery.”

This reminded me of a brief discussion that came up in a religion class I took a few years back. The instructor made a comment about the “more advanced” religions as opposed to the older religions, and I offered an objection along the lines of the fact that I think some of the older religions actually offer better poetic expressions than the so-called “advanced” religions, and that the belief systems of the more advanced religions seem less helpful or honest. I won’t go into how that discussion unfolded, but as usual, I was mostly alone in expressing this perspective. The instructor did, however, change his terminology regarding use of the word “advanced”.
;~)

RATED
that's a great story, Rick, I'm often bemused by the assumption that monotheism is somehow an advance over polytheism. I'd argue that monotheism represents a closing of the mind, encourages suppression of individual religious freedom and fosters religious intolerance to a degree that's impossible in a polytheistic world view

thanks for checking in
I'm so glad I came back to read the comments so I could enjoy Msr. Chariot's perspectives again. Great post, Roy.
I wrote a long and what I hoped was eloquent comment about this post the night so much was wiped out. I won't re-write it except to say that I too love Greek mythology, and that I am in awe of your writing.
Thanks again, sandra, M Chariot was one of many who left thoughtful comments on this thread, it's been really rewarding to get such great feedback

emma, ma chere, I'm sure you were eloquent and I'm sorry I missed it, some things were just not meant to be :~(
Great piece! I love mythology too but my education came from "The Big Golden Book of Odysseus" (when I was like, 7 years old), followed by the Ray Harryhousen movies like "Jason and the Argonauts" and "Clash of the Titans" (featuring Medusa). So, like, I don't think I could engage you in any meaningful discussion.

However! I do write a horoscope parody based on some of the Roman Goddesses so that, for example, Diana: the Hunter, becomes Diana: the Bargain-Hunter. Lame, I know.

Anyhoo. You're a great writer and this piece was marvelous.
ok, dickens, first of all, I also got a big kick out of the Harryhausen movies, Jason and the Argonauts totally kicks ass, also the Sinbads

second, the horoscope parody sounds great, Diana the Bargain-Hunter, indeed

gals you enjoyed this piece, thanks stopping by and leaving a footprint
You are a master and a scholar!
From the your opening sentence ending with 'when I was eight'; you had me thinking of the beginning of David Copperfield.... and I knew you were taking me on a adventure.

Reading this post makes me want you as under- Secretary of Eduction; because our children need a person of your wisdom and intellect to help our schools of tomorrow.

Excellent read
-rated
thanks, gaston, for the vote of confidence, I'm glad you enjoyed the post