Living the Rejected Fat Girl's Fantasy + Swift Tips *UPDATED
Me, near the beginning of Before, @200 pounds: (still searching for those hidden pics that will truly show the SIZE, since I can't show the PAIN)
[Found some... still looking...]
@200 pounds
@150 pounds 
An After pic, 120 pounds
Today (well, okay, a few months ago):
(Somehow lost my head while taking original OS Collage photos).
"I am overweight. I can feel a fear of actualy not having weight to blame for some of my failures. As well as a fear of succeeding." poster's comment
That's a universal story in three sentences. Being unhappy about your weight isn't usually about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear.
And of course, regardless of my title here, losing weight is a fat guy fantasy too. But culturally, let's face it, fat is mostly about the ladies.
I was a fat chick. I know. I also know that the road to healthy weight loss is typically paved with pain. It doesn't have to be. I'm going to tell you how I made it easier.
First I want to clarify some things. I'm gratified--hell, I'm overwhelmed--by the response to Saving Sally...Sally becomes a new Sally. I so appreciate the attagirls, applause... and wolf whistles.
I also heard the spoken--and unspoken--messages, "How can I do that?" and "She flaunted how easy it was, BUT. It's. NOT. easy at all."
No, it's not easy. I never meant to suggest it is. And remember, it took me a full year to reach my personal fighting weight. Am still there, almost 30 years later. Eating what I want, just less. Because I want less.
I'm sincerely sorry that my primary point got lost, at least about weight. Yes, I got dumped and I got revenge. Not by losing weight. By creating a strong, self-confident me. Weight loss was a necessary component to good health for me, but my goal was and is a healthy sense of self.
If I appeared to be gloating in that post, I was. Not about losing weight. About losing fear. Gaining emotional freedom. In my case I was a naturally slim person wrapped in protective layers of fat for some seriously wrong reasons.
We all have issues. Mine stemmed from abuse and other things I'm not going to share. You can draw your own conclusions about a smart girl turned accomplished professional woman who deliberately became and stayed overweight.
Right. I was hiding behind the pounds. Not everybody is, but I was. And I didn't have a valid medical or metabolic reason for those extra pounds. They needed to go because, along with other factors, they were very likely going to kill me.
Everyone is unique, yet part of a bigger picture. Metabolisms, psyches, family histories, DNA, situations, all play a role in determining our physical destiny. Look at your parents, aunts, uncles, cousins.
Some families are thin, some run to fat, some are tall, some are short. Dark hair, light eyes, whatever. Heredity counts for a lot. So does environment. And experiences, good or bad.
I believe anyone who's healthy and happy with his/her body should be left alone, by me and by society. BUT anyone who wants to change should first figure out what goals they can expect to reach, then strive for a solid comfort level within reasonable limits. Under. Medical. Supervision.
We are all our own worst critics. And if we're not, society is happy to jump in. So we must became our own best cheerleaders too.
Far from disparaging healthy, happy, full-figured men and women, I celebrate their self-confident ease in their own skin. But that wasn't me. I was clearly not healthy. I was definitely not happy. My self esteem was low. My sense of safe haven was non-existent. Long before Brad the Impaler came along.
Brad's unconscionable behavior surely rocked my boat, but it didn't send me into a tailspin. On the contrary. It stopped me cold. Made me look long and hard at myself. Helped me recognize it was time to grow up, face my fears. Stop hiding from myself. Start embracing life. And commanding respect.
I really and truly didn't wallow. I made a conscious choice to embrace an opportunity. Use a valuable life lesson. Take full advantage of it.
Then I made a plan. Know this: it wasn't just about weight. It was about the whole package, inside and out.
Know this too: I am not a doctor or a dietician ... certainly not yours. In addition to my business degrees I am also a certified personal trainer with an associate degree in Exercise Physiology. Still, I'm only telling you what I did. It worked for me.
Oh, this is worth repeating: If you want to lose weight, set reasonable goals that are right for YOU.
Here's what I did to get started:
1. Saw my doctor for a complete check-up so we could tailor an eating plan for maximum health benefit. Weight loss secondary. How many times could I cheat death after all?
2. Made an appointment with a therapist for counsel on the real underlying issues. (An online support group would have worked, but there was no online in the 1970's).
3. Joined a health club and got help creating a workout program suited to my medical issues, needs, interests and goals. Cardiac strength top of the list.
4. Asked my friends for cheerleading support. Which I got.
5. Did NOT discuss any of my plans with my family.
Here's the key to my success ... could be yours too:
1. Switch the attitude. Wake up every day looking forward to changing, exercising, losing weight, getting healthier. Do NOT whine at yourself, "Oh no, another day of diet and deprivation." Tell yourself, cool, another day to succeed.
2. Exercise in different ways as much as possible, including with weights. Not fanatically. But. Every. Day. Or at least 6 days a week. If you burn up more than you take in, you'll lose weight. Muscle burns calories, fat stores calories. Really, it is that simple.
Can't get to a gym? Crank up the music and dance for at least 45 minutes ... work up a full out sweat. And relive your disco days in privacy.
3. Eat less and more slowly. Not that hard. Use small plates, small utensils, eat with your non-dominant hand. Simple, but very effective. Even in restaurants.
If you're cooking, same thing applies. Keep a tiny spoon handy for the obligatory tasting.
4. Lay in supplies of healthy nibbles. Grapes, celery and carrot sticks, approved nuts, seeds, dried fruit, whatever you like. Prepackaged? Get ones with individual packets. Or portion them into baggies.
5. Do not deny yourself favorite foods. Purge the house of trigger foods and junk. Then, if you want a candy bar, go buy one and eat it, without guilt. A SMALL bag of Cheetos or chips. Not as a reward, just because you want it. (I'd often take a spoonful of peanut butter and lick it like an ice cream cone).
Bonus: Drink water. Drink water. Drink water. Drink water. Did I mention drink water? A glass/bottle of water before and during every meal. Carry water around and keep drinking. It's healthy, it fills you up, it gives you something to suck on.
Bottom Line: it's not about self control or steely resolve or iron will power. It's about using and fueling your engine well. And employing little tricks to fool it. If hunger overtakes you and you're not really hungry, find a replacement activity. Go for a walk. Call a friend. Come online. Have sex (alone or with a partner), both kill hunger.
And are more fun than eating too.
I promise you this is true: Happiness is the best revenge. (thanks Bill S.)
Thanks to Lisa Kern for the first part of the title. Thanks to Karin Rego for the idea to add some tips.
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Max Rivlin-Nadler
drlaura2
Kristina Lakes
mhold
L in the Southeast
Jane Brogan
Salon.com
Comments
For starters, what is this toning and firming and flattening junk? A person either builds muscle, or they don't. And then, there's all this nonsense about developing very specific, often worthless muscle groups. People need to strive for functional fitness, which usually means a strong, stable core.
A book my wife bought says it best - women need to lift like men, without fear of developing thick muscles like men.
I'm usually skeptical of people who say they work out without effect. I see folks like them all the time in the weight room, slowly pedaling on the stationary bike, or doing about 300 leg-squishes on the scissor machines.
He sang gustily that it was Time. Judgement Day. Everybody. Today! Gather around the chubby Friar. He sang merrily. The lyrics was advising Everybody to take the frowns off their face. The Friar insisted!
Everybody.
A Friar said:`Listen up. Wipe frown off the face. Something happened!
A Mystery.
The Exchange. Essence. Virtue. Virtue was assimilated. The Judge requested that there was to be no mental attitudes of Judging out fellow humans. The unhappy disposition was the offence. Happy. Merry.
No frowns.
Be Merry in heart.
Merriment is the medicine.
Healthy hearts, hearths, good cooking, and eat in moderation. Be Merry. Wake up each day to me happy. Merry. A Friar request that on Judgement Day! Wipe away misery. Frown. O, hush up. Hum merrily.
O, okay.
It's time?
Bathtub!
It's not.
I know you and others like you mean well when you write about this...just know you are pissing some off. I am one of them.
I congratulate you on doing what YOU wanted to do for yourself.
I am grateful you wrote this in a way that is not condescending, assuming of pathology in someone overweight, or outright insulting, which is often the tone here....
(As in...."I looked at everyone who came into my office today and lumped them by size...here is a pie chart of these fatties!")
You are so dear and so kind in your writing that I don't even feel my normal pissed....but man...there is this assumption that fatness equals MISERY and only misery and I am here to tell you, this simply is not true.
I know you wrote before that you wore that 70 pounds well, as it were....you really did, you know. I ain't saying that you "should" go back there, of course not. You look great now too.
Just saying.
You should be very proud of the work you did. You still look great.
Having taught about this very subject, let me state that women CANNOT "bulk up" unless they're on steroids!!! In fact, I know a woman who transformed her flabby, overweight body through weight lifting! She dropped the extra weight and became fabulously toned with beautiful muscle definition. Furthermore, her diligence paid off early in that within a few months, she could see amazing results! (She's in her late thirties.) Also, weight lifting strengthens bones more effectively than some other types of exercise. Women who fear weight lifting because they think they'll develop massive muscles are ignorant, just to be blunt about it!
Eating when you are sad or lonely instead of hitting someone in the face IS a valid medical problem. And it isn't always depression. Sometimes the wiring is off.
Wait ten years. They are just now figuring this out.
My two cents are that I try, in my own life, to emphasize what you seem to be doing; acceptance and happiness in your own body. Don't let anyone tell you that "u r doin it rong." Happiness is worth so much more than a good BMI reading.
Don't have the time or interest? Here's the Cliff Notes version:
This is a hot button subject and I knew there'd be some who'd hear other voices in place of mine. Not fair, to you or me. My POV is this:I believe anyone who's healthy and happy with his/her body should be left alone, by me and by society.
Far from disparaging healthy, happy, full-figured men and women, I celebrate their self-confident ease in their own skin. But that wasn't me. I was clearly not healthy. I was definitely not happy. My self esteem was low. My sense of safe haven was non-existent.
Remember this too: the post is about me. What worked for me. General, proven facts about the value of healthy eating and exercise. Everything else is personal commentary. Don't agree? Fine. Tell us your strategy. Or story. Or point of view.
I'll answer individual comments after I go get a new bottle of water and take a few deep breaths.
-what if the mentality is just.. oh god another day? how do you get past that bump with out the therapist bc either A. you cant afford them or B. they dont work for every one for some reason or another??
-and the water thing... for 2 years now all i drink is water with the occasional sweet tea.. but the wieght still isnt going any where..im not subsitituting the soda for something to eat.. if anything all the water gets me is water retension..
alright im done "complaining" i dont think my problem is not having a desire to lose wieght bc honestly i feel like a skinny person trapped in a fat suit most days.. its more of a distracted issue.. i cant stay focused on any kind of program.. and i dont have anyone one for support..
btw why didnt you talk about it with your family?
"2. Made an appointment with a therapist for counsel on the real underlying issues. (An online support group would have worked, but there was no online in the 1970's)."
I get that you may be speaking only for yourself, but this sounds like a general point, and I feel the need to say:
Online (or F2F) peer support groups can be wonderful and even life-saving, but they are not a substitute in any way, shape or form for work with a licensed psychotherapist.
There are many reasons for that, including that therapists don't just "support" their clients, they challenge them, but using sophisticated approaches that will help rather than alienate the client. They provide insight and techniques for change based on clinical training, not just "what worked for them" (which can be really helpful or completely off point) as peers do. They dig into causes and actions that flow from those causes (as you suggest you needed to do around your history and your weight). And that's just for starters.
Again, peer support is wonderful. But it isn't therapy. Not by a long shot.
hmm.
Ok then...will just avoid these kinds of posts in the future.
~~~Leonde, thank you! And bingo on your knowledge, especially about heart health.
~~~Allie, it's a bit of a catch-22 for me now. A woman past 50 begins to look even older when too skinny, so I could stand to gain a few pounds for cosmetic reasons. But my BMI is 20, solid normal.
~~~Arthur, as usual, you cheer me up.
~~~Persephone, my sweet, pleasepleaseplease read again, you and Jodi and Priddy especially made me rewrite for clarity. But even before, this was right there in plain view: Far from disparaging healthy, happy, full-figured men and women, I celebrate their self-confident ease in their own skin. But that wasn't me. I was clearly not healthy. I was definitely not happy. My self esteem was low. My sense of safe haven was non-existent. YOU are gorgeous. You know that. He knows that. I know that. Look at the quote I used. That person is in pain about weight. I was speaking to that, not to you. Are we okay?
~~~Jodi, Jodi, Jodi, my pal, my buddy, my muse, what I just said to Persephone. You guys made me rewrite my opening to apply to more than just the commenter, whose pain I was caught up in. Look at you, you're gorgeous. Look at Cartouche, so is she. Too different body types, BOTH killer. Mine is between the two. Are WE okay?
~~~Michael, go take a run then come home and have a LITE beer. heh
~~~Ann, I was on the way down in that pic, feeling good, but still 150 pounds on a 5'5" frame was too much for my vascular system. Plus, those ginormous "assets" gave me unhealthy calcium deposits on top of my shoulders. I don't have a lot of "really fat" pics of myself around, can't imagine why.
~~~Delia, if you want and need to lose weight and get better heart health, get doctor's approval, and I hope the tips help.
~~~Kaysong, I listened, realized I'd been responding only to the bolded comment and my own experience, then rewrote that part. Hope you agree with the new opening.
~~~Soap Box Amy, weights have to be part of a healthy program. Especially for women, strong muscles help strengthen our bones.
~~~AshKW, thank you for your understanding and support and for getting my point, as you say so well, "I try, in my own life, to emphasize what you seem to be doing; acceptance and happiness in your own body."
~~~Oh, Priddy, you have such very special circumstances, and you also have such solid knowledge. If I've angered you then I really failed. I was instead urging you to add your expertise to the discussion.
~~~Barbara anne, I don't know what to say to you. Except I focused HARD on saying, GREAT, another day to lose weight and get healthy. Really, I did. And as I saw the very first results, it got to be true. I didn't tell my family because I didn't want to raise expectations, get unwanted advice or feel under a microscope.
~~~Silkstone, my support came from a psychiatrist, a medical doctor. But again, not about the weight, about the REASON for the weight. For me, a big deal. I agree with you that anyone who knows his/her weight issues (could be bulimia as easily as overweight) come from emotional problems needs professional help. Peer support is the icing on the low-cal cake. :)
Thanks very much for the clarification...and I will just...yanno, avoid the weight posts. Gets my dander up.
I am thrilled you were able to do what so many cannot. I don't want you to think otherwise.
And a lot of the people I speak of are kids that were not taught to eat healthy, do not have mental health care, have not achieved full height....you are just grossly irresponsible.
Your advice also ignores recent genetic and socio-economic realities.
Your age is showing as much as your vanity. And no, "we" are not ok.
I have read your writing and supported and friended you since beta. I read this to see what the fuss was all about. And I got hit in the face with this. I should have just ignored it, but that isn't why you posted it, is it?
If you throw out reactionary statements, you should be obliged to deal with the reaction. Feel free to delete my comments.
She left for summer vacation and returned 30 pounds lighter. You could say that many would now judge her as "beautiful." Beautiful = thin.
Guys who previously didn't even notice her now wanted to date her and more. She had a very good memory and rebuffed them all. She asked me out and we dated and more for a semester. I asked once why did she ask me out, when she could have gone out with the cool kids? She said you were always my friend no matter what I looked like.
I understand why you did this and kudos to you.
I think the misunderstanding here comes from the fact that you didn't really get dumped because you were fat. You got dumped because he was a massive tool who had no intention of forging a permanent relationship with you to begin with. (As per your previous blog) Even *if* your weight was an issue for him, that was his problem, not yours.
Linking your revenge to your weight sends the message that you think you deserved to be dumped because you were "fat". Now you're "better" and no longer being dumped. That's not so nice for the "fat" girls around here who don't even remember what 150 looks like on the scale.
A "fat girl's fantasy" around my house is wishing I hadn't been given a drug that made me gain 100 pounds. 100 pounds isn't about carrot sticks and lots of water. It's pain, suffering and fear - a race against time before I die.
Thirty pounds is commendable. I know, I've lost fifty. But, I don't get to wear a sign around my neck that explains what happened to me. There's just the assumption by the world that I eat because I'm sad and boys don't like me.
I'm not sad and I have men coming out of my ears. (::biscuit!::) Furthermore, it's not about what I eat, it's about reversing damage that was done to my body by a drug. No one can do that but me. No one can live inside my own experience but me. Nor can I live in yours and understand completely.
You are a stronger person now because you demand better for yourself, not because you lost 30 pounds. And *saying* you're stronger because you're thinner translates into other people feeling as if you don't think they are as good as you are because they are fat.
Was that your intention? Of course not. But I would be less of a person/writer/friend if I didn't tell you the truth.
You have the right to tell your story in whatever way you want to tell it. I honor your commitment to yourself to be healthy. But, keep in mind that when you calmly explain to the world that you were rejected because you were fat and you think that was your fault, fat people might get hurt, no matter what the disclaimer.
Yeah, we're okay. We are ALL okay.
In my case I was a naturally slim person wrapped in protective layers of fat for some seriously wrong reasons.
This probably should have been the very first line of your post, in bold Times New Roman 36 point. Or maybe you should have said (as Freaky does): This post is all about ME,ME,ME,ME,ME!!!! Your mileage (and situation) may vary.
In any event, I do think I got your point. I will always stand by my statement (that you so kindly quoted) which is meant for everybody no matter what they think about themselves:
Happiness is indeed the best revenge.
Find yourself, love yourself. The only one who can make you happy is YOU.
Thumbed.
Thank you.
Yep, I thought it showed a sickness in our culture. I don't think your post comes from a place that intends to cause pain, because its your personal story. But there have been so many stories like this (on t.v. mostly trying to sell weightloss products) that seem to say "a long time ago, I was gross, disgusting and unloveable. Now, when I walk down the street, men crave my ass. Ain't life grand?"
But, on a more personal level, I don't think this is what you're trying to say, and I think from the things you write on OS that you're a great person. And I'd think so even if you hadn't lost the @#$% weight.
~~~Kaysong, thank you especially for acknowledging my effort. It helps to know I've corrected an offense made to you or anyone else.
~~~OE, here's the thing, I always had friends and boyfriends. I *pretended* self-confidence well. The big difference after the weight loss and, much more important, the psychotherapy to deal with the reason I was heavy was that my choices got better because I truly felt better about myself in every way.
~~~Jodi, thank you for your wonderful comment. I have to just remind you that it's not about 30 pounds but 75+, and that is a big difference. I only added the weight #'s in this post because Ann said I didn't look so fat in the "before" pic... which is really a "middle" pic. Oy. I am so sorry for what you went through. I know the drug and what it can do, not only to the body but to the mind. I just didn't go there on top of all else I was talking about in the post.
I'm desperate to try to make this clear and I don't know how because the pictures are now out there and somehow everyone is focused on 'Sally lost weight therefore she thinks she a better person.' I'm not better because I'm thinner. I'm better because I'm alive. Because my most horrendous psychological issues--which were WHY I gained and kept the weight--were addressed and overcome, which is then why I lost the weight. It wasn't my fault, but I can't/won't talk about that part. I'm not as courageous as you and Persephone and Elizabeth in that regard.
Also, I don't remember explaining I was rejected for being fat, in fact I said specifically he liked big women, just not me. My weight loss was about becoming sane and strong and healthy and safe. Not vanity, though that part was undeniably fun. Much more important: STAYIN ALIVE.
So glad we're okay.
~~~Zuma, Bill, Lena, bluesurly, Blue Eyes, THANK YOU. I'm fucking exhausted. And it ain't over yet. But Bill says I should reiterate this, so I will, for the record:
In my case I was a naturally slim person wrapped in protective layers of fat for some seriously wrong reasons.
I think the underlying problem is that society feels like it is OK to judge people who are overweight. We have generally gotten more and more restrictive about negative stereotypes – i.e. it’s not very socially acceptable to say, “Hispanics are this… Blacks are that…”
However, a few groups have been left out of this lockstep political correctness - smokers, white men, and southerners come to mind. I have been told, to my face, “Southerners are stupid.” Well, I am southern and tests seem to indicate I am not stupid. Still, hearing that grates me like a hunk of cheese (on grits!) Why is that comment still allowed? Who sets the rules? Mockery of fat people is also still permitted, in some cases, even encouraged. Why is this OK? What will make it not OK? It shows no sign of changing any time soon.
For the record, I do not think that is what you were doing. I think you were just trying to say, “This is what worked for me. This helped me” But when someone has been repeatedly and sometimes openly judged, teased, or berated… well, that makes it very tricky, even with the best intentions.
Rated for diving into the deep end
As a piece about YOU, and your experiences and feelings, I have no criticisms, and give you kudos for doing what you needed to do to feel healthy in body and spirit. I've written about my experiences with body image, and I know it's a difficult tightrope to walk given the cultural baggage attached to weight.
I found a bit of dissonance, though, in the addition of the tips. I realize that people asked you how you did it, but diet tips (particularly ones that start with attitude-adjustment) just don't fit with the character of a post about a personal journey.
We need to distinguish between body shape fat, and fat from eating the wrong foods and not exercising enough.
Does that mean that fat people ought to be made fun of? 'course not, any more than anyone does.
But, I'm tired of all the excuses for being fat. If you don't like to exercise and you like to eat, say so! Don't give me drivel about how exercising doesn't work for you.
(Folks with genuine medical problems are excluded from my mini-rant. That goes as a matter of saying)
~~~Squillo, thank you. My victory was much more than body and spirit, it was sanity. The weight loss is/was an indication that my sanity was saved. Nobody seems really to get that. As for the tips, I was asked, I didn't give diet tips, I don't believe in diets as pejorative deprivation torture. I said, for god's sake, if you want a candy bar, go eat one! Attitude, grabbing onto a different mind set, helped me. I wasn't suggesting "attitude adjustment" as a mean-spirited slam. I literally got up every morning and said, cool, another day I can get more positive. What's wrong with that?
~~~Jon, you're entitled to your opinion and a lot of people share it. But I believe from experience that being overweight isn't a choice for most. It's metabolic, inherited, illness, emotional, even cultural. So I never judge, no matter how many people think I am.
And I refuse to delete any comments here, no matter how angry. Anger comes from pain and that hurts me too.
Lack of exercise removes every reason for being fat and not fit, except for those who are medically unable to exercise.
I was fat, too, until I stopped making excuses for myself and hauled butt to to the weightroom. 'course that method won't work for everyone, but there are very few situations when exercising more isn't beneficial.
"I'm wearing this because Jon needs to feel better about himself."
But I'm a writer, not an artist.
I thought that you were quite clear that this was about how you did it for your reasons. I do not see anywhere where you say this is universally applicable, yada, yada, yada.
One thing I do know is that any post about how I did this or that and it worked for me, or, worse, I did this or that and you should too, is going to get blasted here on OS. Nobody here wants to be told how to do anything. And nobody here really wants to be told that they SHOULD do anything. Period.
Thanks, and sorry you got so much flak.
Monte
"then I saw that you created it to attack me."
Don't flatter yourself. The Haiga stands for itself and was a response to a whole set of things of which you are only a small subset. The comments section is about what it is about, and you want to make it about you, so here goes:
"Why with such a vengeance? ...Why are you so angry about one small post about Me?"
Because you posted an irresponsible, outdated, damaging post.
"NOT lip service, and you know that."
I know no such thing. I think it is.
"pain and survival? "
I didn't respond to the one about you and your feelings, your pain, or your survival. I responded to the one about fat and how to overcome it just.like.you.did. There were three posts. I ignored 2, the personal ones. Your Cosmo tips for getting the fat off post was not about that . Compartmentalize.
"Sandra often writes passionately about running and fitness and health, does that mean she's obsessed? Of course not. "
Of course she is. She runs ultra marathons. She doesn't castigate others for doing so. All serious runners are obsessed.
"You say this about me: She has obsessed and pored over calories and eating for 30 years to maintain this new divine image of herself. She has created a graven image and it is her scale. I will not bow down to it. How did you decide that is my reality? It most certainly is not."
You throw things out there. People interpret them. You don't like the reflection, tough.
"I'm not obsessed with weight or calories or "divine image." I care about my health. I'm a little person (in a family of slim people) who was carrying around a big person and it would kill me to do so again. I don't think about weight. I don't diet, I just try to stay healthy.
Something brought that part of my life to mind so I wrote about it. I showed before and after pictures, everybody loves to see those. I'm proud I took charge of my life and therefore my destiny. I have a right not to die. I have a right to be healthy at the right size for me. I have a right to feel good about myself. "
Good for you. I don't care about that. That is boilerplate human being shit.
"Why does all of this make me Satan???"
I never said that. Martyr, much?
Maybe I can be only half revolting...oh I hope I hope!
Some say it is becasue universal health insurance rates are higher due to obesity and its links to disease.
If that is your point, ban drinking. It causes obesity in many (beer belly).
Also, drinking causes liver disease, poor circulation and a cascading host of secondary disease including mental illness and addiction.
When are you going to start in on drunks?
Oh, right. People LIKE to drink. People don't like to be fat. Right.
remember the seinfeld episode where elaine gets all upset because another woman was asking about her Botticelli shoes?
and every time she rants on about it..the guys just stare at her dumbfounded?
they just didn't get it
i understand those looks now - i don't get this either
- well sort of but not really
this matters?
My point is that I agree with her. You exclude people with medical issues from your contempt...but I don't understand your contempt fat people. Yeah, ok, some make excuses. Can you blame them? Really? Think of the world they live in....to make no excuse at all makes them truly awful in so many people's eyes.
If contempt is too strong a word, fine...I recant.
Rated
But I think you are being a bit cruel here. If Sally were some thickheaded hateful trog, I could understand your wanting to take a very strong and angry tone to get it through their thick skull.
But Sally is about as kind as they come, and I really don't think this level of anger is going to "teach" her anything other than you have a temper.
I deeply understand your desire to get people to understand that their thought processes or tactics or motivations are coming from a place you don't share. I also understand and SHARE your desire to move people out of outdated modes of thinking regarding weight and fat and fat loss and body....
But I feel Sally got the brunt of something she didn't deserve. This is over the top mean.
I think I understand your story and the points you were making about your experiences. Apparently, you were successful in addressing the issues that were hurting you. You described some of how you did that, including the steps you followed to lose weight and get in healthier condition. I don't have any problem with you telling us how you got from point A to point B. Also, I don't blame you for not detailing the underlying issues, because you certainly don't owe anyone here that depth of personal disclosure. (It's not hard for me to fill in some blanks, because of things of which I have experience.)
*And* and I understand those who take your post as advice that *anyone* could/or should follow to achieve the same results. No, you don't say that you're giving such universal advice and, in fact, you offer disclaimers.
The problem has been demonstrated by some other posters who apparently think that fat people can be *weighed* and found justified or not justified. Only those weight can be medically justified are acceptable. All others can labelled as lazy...oh, everybody knows the rest of the things attached to that label.
The reality is that there are many reasons why someone may be fat. It is far, far more complicated than many people want to see. And in addition to those multiple reasons, people also vary widely as to their healthiness/fitness and their attitude about their weight.
This issue just becomes volatile because in our simple-minded society, everything is black/white, either/or and *everyone knows* that only skinny people are attractive or worthwhile. And conversely, fat people must not be worthy. This idiocy and cruelty becomes a heavy (pun intended) burden for every fat person.
I was being blunt.
I was mean in response to a direct attempt to make me feel guilty for speaking my mind.
I react badly to that. Reason and logic, not as much.
At 200 pounds, you were not at a healthy weight, even though I can't find your height. You definitely didn't "look fat", but then, I don't "look" sick.
Some people don't "look" their weight, but it's still there, nonetheless.
It's about burning more calories that we eat. 3,500 calories = one pound. And it takes a year.
We also could think about diabetes, hip knee and joint damage, and other health problems from obesity.
Other than that, it's an individual thing. Thanks for sneaking some truth out there.
And on top of that, statistically, "overweight" people live longer than "normal" weight people. (Which makes me wonder why it's called overweight, but hey, I don't write this shit.) It's only when weight reaches "obese" (BMI of 30 or higher) that it starts to have a negative influence on health.
You can look this up; I'm not just a crackpot expressing my own opinion. The longest lifespans are found in the 25-29 BMI range. "Normal weight" people live shorter lives. Then the obese (30-40 bmi) have some problems, and the severely obese (over 40) really have some problems, and the underweight (under 18.5) have a lot of health problems. But people who are just ordinary overweight do not have any increase in health problems.
So it kinda bugs me that you're framing this as Look how healthy I got, woo hoo! There's a real disconnect there between what a guy looking at a girly magazine calls fat and what the medical profession calls fat, and you were never what the medical profession calls fat.
Some people's nerves can be a touchy, but don't worry about us. Most of the reasonables here are just fine and not het up. We're cool!
For what it's worth, I read this and didn't feel at all offended. I've read the comments and am trying to understand the feelings behind them since they are from women I respect and adore.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I read this as coming from the point of view of a caring person trying to share what worked for her so that others could enjoy similar success. The "success" isn't only about weight loss, but a much deeper revelation.
In my opinion, if you're not happy with yourself, no matter how "normal" or "fine" you might appear to others, then Houston, there IS a problem and you owe it to yourself to try to fix it. Everyone deserves the chance to feel comfortable in their own skin. Some people may already feel comfortable but there's a ton of us still trying to find that perfect balance of self-acceptance.
Thanks for the empowerment. :)
Now, my turn...
~~~angus, I'm going to find you some posts from various women here that will help you understand us. This, however, is not one of them.
~~~Blue, you're a cutie as usual.
~~~Cat, throw some brandy in that tea, please.
~~~Suzn, you tried and that counts for a lot. I would like to say again that I was asked to post advice on what worked for me. It's not just about disclaimers, it's about responding to others. I listed some of the many reasons for obesity, specifically making no moral or other judgements, though some have been ascribed to me here. Clearly, this is a lose-lose subject. Oh, for cryin out loud... pun not intended.
~~~Mrs. Michaels, I'm here. I had to go take some Advil, eat a gallon of ice cream and wash it down with a pitcher of beer. Now I feel better. Go ahead, eat the pizza. I don't want you to have cold hands.
~~~Elizabeth, I've always found you to be a woman of character, decency, deep conviction and strong ideas. I have seen you disagree with others (and me) and defend your positions with passion, authority and courage. I have never known you to be deliberately cruel, certainly not to someone who has supported and encouraged you... and who you know is also a decent person.
You took umbrage at my post, made it personal, grabbed sections out of context, fit them to your purposes, attacked me viciously, with incredible malice. And encouraged others to denigrate me too. That's not the Elizabeth Priddy I thought I knew. I can't speak for others, but I don't use guilt as a weapon, I try and try again to make my own point clear.
I don't attack and call names. I'm sorry my post upset and/or offended you, but so much vitriolic anger can't possibly be simply about me. And I ask you to stop now. I will not engage with you further unless the debate is civil and respectful of all involved.
~~~icemilkcoffee, if anything helps you here, I'm glad. We can all use each other's support.
~~~zuma, thank you for your support. I've said in previous posts that I never looked as heavy as I was. And as noted over the top picture, I can't find the ones that really show me as medically obese. It's possible I got rid of them. I'll address your health questions with Allie too now..
~~~Allie, I reiterated in this post and described in detail in the first two that I have a history of clotting disorder and have in fact had three pulminary embolisms (emboli?), the first a NDE, the second a wake up call. Obesity, combined with other factors, could kill me. BMI is important, but it's not the whole ball of wax.
My statistics were (and are) bad. Family history of heart disease. I was on the pill. Desk job (sitting for long periods of time). Not exercising enough. Not eating properly. Coffee. Earlier on, cigarettes too. So when I talk about gaining good health and being proud of keeping it, that's not hyperbole, it's very, very real.
And because it's important to you, I am all these years later now 5'4", 120 pounds, BMI 20. My doctor and vascular surgeon are pleased. Therefore, so am I. And I do appreciate your obvious concern with appropriate understanding of legitimate weight control vs unrealistic sex appeal.
~~~new blog, karma, what else can I say?
~~~teendoc, you rock. Glad we're cool.
There is no context to apply it to. You seemed to be answering my comment here over there. I posted my remarks both places so that the discussion didn't need to happen in two places, as that is confusing.
I think it is unfortunate that you seem to interpret remarks differently than I read them. Remarks in these comments that you respond to as if they are supporting your position, are not. And my remarks are given way more air time than they deserved.
Since this is all over here now, I will delete our exchange in the Sumo Haiga post. It adds nothing to the greater project and the haiga in question is much more complicated and worthy than involving it in this exchange would indicate.
_____________
I came here innocently. I looked in wonder at this incredibly beautiful and multi-layered image and was about to comment on my awe... then I saw that you created it to attack me.
I feel kicked in the gut. Which I guess is what you felt reading the first paragraph of my post. So you're going after me. Why with such a vengeance? First you say I claim metabolic disorders are to blame. Then you say I don't take them into account. Why are you so angry about one small post about Me?
Someone had commented about pain and fear of being overweight (the bold quote at the top). It struck a cord with ME, I've heard it from others, I responded without realizing it was too broad a generalization. You and others called me on it and I tacked. Go look. I said I was Wrong and I changed that one part of a whole post that also said I celebrate everybody who's happy and healthy no matter what size or shape or color or anything else they are or want to be. NOT lip service, and you know that.
Why would you be so cruel to attach such horrible motives to my personal story of pain and survival? Where does it say that my past personal struggle with self-esteem and other unspeakable issues is an indictment of YOU ... or anyone else?
I wrote three posts around a seminal turning point in my life. I literally died and didn't get the message. I got sicker and didn't get the message. Finally, ridiculously--but not really for a 20-something--it took a man's bad behavior to make me see I was killing myself. So I did something about it.
Sandra often writes passionately about running and fitness and health, does that mean she's obsessed? Of course not.
You say this about me: She has obsessed and pored over calories and eating for 30 years to maintain this new divine image of herself. She has created a graven image and it is her scale. I will not bow down to it. How did you decide that is my reality? It most certainly is not.
I'm not obsessed with weight or calories or "divine image." I care about my health. I'm a little person (in a family of slim people) who was carrying around a big person and it would kill me to do so again. I don't think about weight. I don't diet, I just try to stay healthy.
Something brought that part of my life to mind so I wrote about it. I showed before and after pictures, everybody loves to see those. I'm proud I took charge of my life and therefore my destiny. I have a right not to die. I have a right to be healthy at the right size for me. I have a right to feel good about myself.
People asked questions, I answered. People asked for tips, I told them what worked for me. I stressed, over and over, HEALTH.
Why does all of this make me Satan???
But that is all in a day's blogging. So, ok.
"This is a direct response to Sally Swift's post that indicates that she thinks all fat people are either metabolically ill or mentally disturbed and eating out of irrational fear or depression.
I think she is obsessed with her weight and thinks everyone else should be, too.
I think she is completely irresponsible for posting this example of an outdated medically uninformed mentality."
Priddy is vomiting all her personal appearance issues onto Swift because Swift had some self discipline and did what was right for her. Priddy is completely full of crap and a vicious bitch. Look how she keeps coming back here to attack Swift.
I also came to deposit her comment in full so that it would not be lost when I deleted it.
Note that I left the remarks you quoted so that the rest of the post would make sense and that nothing was altered at all unless it was omitted completely.
The haiga was a direct response, tempered with a lot of other information. Art is more complicated than simple sniping.
Your opinion is noted. Thank you.
Sally, so you hit a nerve? Well, that's not a bad thing. Anything that encourages debate and honest conversation is a good thing, in my humble opinion. I got thrown into boiling water with a recent post as well, and I finally realized that everyone filters what they read through their own experiences. Don't let this keep you from sharing yourself honestly with the world.
I loved this post.
Yes, I do have a problem with you posting pictures of yourself at a 25 BMI, which is perfectly normal, and saying, "OMG I was such a fat cow! Look at what a fat cow I used to be!"
Because no one needs to think that someone with a 25 BMI is a fat cow. That's a very bad thing about American culture which I would hope you don't want to contribute to. I'm sorry you thought you looked terrible back then - but you didn't. And no one who looks like you looked back then needs to be "inspired" to try to make every tendon in their body visible in the belief that that's the only socially acceptable body type. I understand what you're saying about your particular history, but as a rule, people who can count every rib are less healthy, not more healthy.
There's a reason you're getting jumped on, and disclaimers about how you admire fat people are a little undercut by the implication that anyone who looks as you looked in your photos is a fat ass.
Taking care to resolve these issues resulted in a smaller size.
YOU had issues in which you were using your weight to cover.
Brad was just a douche.
Since this post is about you, and all OS posts are about the person who writes them, I wonder why are so many people are defensive.
This is Sally's story so let's try not to get in a tizzy people.
Congratulations on your success. It's too bad that, for some, another's success is perceived to be an indictment of others. Woman can be particularly sensitive this way.
Now, I'm off to spin. I find working out very relaxing when I'm not risking my life out here.
Perhaps those who are feeling tense should find an enjoyable outlet for such stress.
For strong support without the cost of a therapist, may I suggest Overeaters Anonymous. I know, "not another 12-step program", but it works when all other methods have failed. However, you have to willing, open-minded and honest. Trust me. Check it out. www.oa.org can help you find a group in your area.
Thinly Rated.
Too bad people can't edit their comments here, given that most of the negative comments were made when the post was a little less clear.
The fun part is that people coming in late are baffled and indignant...blah blah...I guess that's the nature of the beast.
At this point nothing negative can be said that won't hurt someone...people who take exception to the ideas that are no longer a part of this post have been insulted all over OS.....Sally has been hurt too, and badly. A shame.
I had hoped it could be talked about without so much emotion. I and others tried to be just about as gentle as we could...but no matter...we all got lumped together ...neurotic, lying to ourselves fatties we are, I guess. We were certainly set strait.
Much in the style that Sally was "set straight"...which I didn't like either.
Nobody won.....and it never should have been a battle in the first place.
Disappointing.
But seriously, I appreciate what you've written here. You offer some solid, useful tips for coping with anxiety and fear without resorting to comfort foods. I'm certainly with you on the water, water, water, water advice. Your advice about using your non-dominant hand for eating was new to me; I'll try it.
That does sound fun...sounds like an experiment up Nanatay's alley.
BUT, I think one of the great strengths of the OS format is that even the most ostensibly benign of posts and comments can spark discussion and debate--that sometimes gets um... a little overheated.
There are few things more frustrating than wanting to be profoundly understood and feeling like everyone is hearing you speak Martian. Sally felt that...I felt that...we all got a taste.
Gar.
Not surprised you saw no fat people in Cuba. I am sure there are some tucked away somewhere tho. We get around.
BBE, a pithy defense of me, which I'll gladly accept, though I don't like bashing anyone, even in my own defense. I'm frankly sorry this has caused so much strum and drang but if Elizabeth removed upsetting comments from her blog, it's her right and better they not be out there when cooler heads prevail. I removed no comments here because while some are angry, none are over-the-top cruel.
ikhw, right, deep breaths. My posts are almost always personal, but the last time I got this kind of yin and yang angst was a post about sex almost a year ago. I guess I should add body image to the list of sex, politics and religion as hot buttons. Oh right, the one suggesting a strategy for advancing gay rights upset some, but mostly they made a comment and then ignored me, a solid plan if ever there was one. I'm glad you loved this post and I promise I will NOT shut up. I have too many more stories to tell.
Allie, I don't run marathons. And forgive me, but my doctors told me to lose weight to help prevent recurrence of blood clots. Are you a physician? You seem so certain in your determination to change my past, present and future health regimens.
I'd also ask you please not to put false words or opinions in my mouth or rather, on this page. I told MY story, I showed pictures of MY progress, I stressed health above all else. I made NO value judgements and I don't care for the word "disclaimer" which implies wiggling out from under something to get away from something else. I speak honestly and with admiration for all who are comfortable and happy in their own bodies, especially because I was not happy in mine for a long time (and more, because it almost killed me). You seem not to want to hear that part.
The reason I'm getting jumped on has more to do with the jumper's issues than with mine. I'm sorry about that, but I can only deal with me. Finally, you say I imply "that anyone who looks as you looked in your photos is a fat ass." Please do NOT ever ascribe this remark or feeling to me, it's unkind and untrue.
annette, I'm with you on "be encouraged that you inspired people to talk" ... now if I could only get some to listen. :)
Hipployta, THANK YOU! Bullet points that parse my post down to its pure essence. And a big kiss for your comment #2, hope you sweat into joy.
ghost writer, thank you and thank you for summing up what appears to be an issue for Some. I can't speak for anyone but myself.
Steve, as always, thank you. Short and sweet.
Trudge, anybody who wants to take advantage of your suggestion should feel free. I've heard good things about oa.org but have never tried it myself. As I always though, I urge doctor clearance.
Perseph, I'll do my best to let people in on the (actually only two) changes I made.
1. The current second picture of me @160 pounds was first at the top and apparently gave the impression I thought I looked enormous. Ann and you set me straight, so I added the top picture of the @200 pound me, noting I can't find others and I know even it doesn't look that big.
2. I started with the same quote. My original first sentence was: That's a universal story in three sentences. Weighing too much without a valid medical/metabolic reason isn't about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear. I got hammered for that, realized it was far too broad a generalization, changed it to this, seen above: Being unhappy about your weight isn't usually about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear.
Everything else is the same. Especially you. I can't say this any better than Lea did, "Persephone, you have never been mean here. You disagreed gracefully, and that's noted and appreciated in a forum like this where emotions can run so high." Perseph, you know I'm sorry if you got hurt. And baby, nobody, but nobody puts you in a corner!
Lea, compliments like that from you make me feel 10 feet tall. Oops, maybe better not use body metaphors eh. I was going to say "took a weight off my mind" but we can't seem to escape the puns.
Rich, that first collage was fun. Somebody at Physical Therapy took those pics soon after my rotator cuff surgery and cut my head off. I'm glad you got something from the tips.
Beth, I'm SO glad you appreciate this and agree. You guys are great. My shoulders just relaxed. I hadn't realized they were up near my ears...
Squillo, you're so right. I didn't have a clue this would become a boxing match, especially since two other parts of the story proceeded it. Go know.
JK Brady, I like how you think. I've talked about people in France having low body fat and low cholesterol even though they eat enormously fattening foods. It's said it's the red wine. Well, hell, what a good ideal.
Sorry you're not happy with your sexy, bubbly, charming self, but here are the tips you asked for ... and if they don't work, read all the comments here, many will take away your appetite. ;) Quick! Somebody get Karin an iron!
Odette and Persephone, you've got each other covered, don't need me, right?
It was enlightening to see how so many of us held our biases close to our hearts/minds on the first read and them needed to re-read to pick up the real message of the post.
Oh, and Lea is nice, but actually I'm not. ;)
Sally--I'm fine here. I liked your post by the way. Common sense tips for keeping healthy.
But 50 fingerings and front page for the weekend is the best revenge.
Rated!
1. I weigh about 80 pounds more now than when I was married.
2. I wish I weighed a lot less now.
3. I felt a great sense of accomplishment when I gave birth without meds.
Now, if you're wondering about #3, it has to do with that notion of feeling proud of an accomplishment. It doesn't mean that anyone else who chose a different path (and that would be me for Baby #2) is bad. But I was and remain proud of myself for that achievement. (I think it's OK that Sally is proud of herself for this. She should be.)
Those are my facts.
~~~Odette, I had a feeling you'd be cool with this, but thanks for saying so. Means a lot to me.
~~~Karin, you go girl! I hope everybody reads your comment, not the parts about me, but the very important information about weight and health and disease prevention. Hell, I was in grave danger from blod clots.. one of the major contributors to which is obesity. Losing weight saved my life. Thank you for putting out information that might save somebody else.
~~~Cassandra, thank you for your kind comment and for understanding and being willing to see the whole picture. Speaking of which, this might have gotten lost in the many comments, but here again is ALL I changed in the post, as I said in response to Persephone:
1. The current second picture of me @160 pounds was first at the top and apparently gave the impression I thought I looked enormous. Ann and you set me straight, so I added the top picture of the @200 pound me, noting I can't find others and I know even it doesn't look that big.
2. I started with the same quote as above. My original first sentence was: "That's a universal story in three sentences. Weighing too much without a valid medical/metabolic reason isn't about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear."
I got hammered for that, realized it was far too broad a generalization, changed it to this, seen above: "Being unhappy about your weight isn't usually about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear."
Everything else in the post is the same.
~~~Marcela, I am SO glad when anybody comes away with a smile or a positive feeling from anything I write. After all that's gone on here, you've made MY day!
I spent the last hour reading Sally's post and comments instead of going to the rec center as planned.
Lainey, I'm so sorry! Hope you're at the rec center and won't read this for another couple hours, if ever.
But I've also gone through similar things as you, Sally, where I ate to kill my pain and stopped being active and saw it result in a much larger me. I didn't like that, not because I hate fat people (I happen to think Beth Ditto is hot), but because it made me feel unhealthy. I was winded all the time. I had aches and pains. I didn't dream these things up, they were there. Most of all I didn't feel like ME. Which is what I heard you say also. When I lost weight (and I was lucky to be able to, I think not everyone can or even wants to) I felt better. Did a little of that feeling come from being more acceptable to people who don't like fat people? Maybe. I'll own that. But I didn't lose the weight for them. I lost it for me. I agree with fat acceptance bloggers who say we need to change society's attitudes on size, but sometimes I feel judged for wanting to lose weight. Like somehow I hate myself or hate fat people because I want to lose weight. I didn't lose weight because of self-hatred- I never would have been able to sustain any kind of loss under those circumstances. Self-hatred kept me eating junk food and not being active. Self-love inspired me to try to eat right and exercise. Weight loss (and gain- for me) ended up being a side effect. Which is also what I heard you saying in your post, Sally.
This is all very interesting. (sorry for adding a long comment to an already long discussion- this weight thing has just been on my mind lately )
a treat and have changed my eating habits. I still eat what I want
as well. In addition, I joined a gym in January. Doing swimming
and resistance training. I swear, I don't think I have ever felt
better or more energized. I still get the (I'm 60) aches and
pains but I no longer feel like I'm dragging my body around.
FYI: You can lose weight by fidgeting alone! All that energy
spent fidgeting burns up calories!
1. The current second picture of me @160 pounds was first at the top and apparently gave the impression I thought I looked enormous. Ann and you set me straight, so I added the top picture of the @200 pound me, noting I can't find others and I know even it doesn't look that big.
2. I started with the same quote as above. My original first sentence was: "That's a universal story in three sentences. Weighing too much without a valid medical/metabolic reason isn't about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear."
I got hammered for that, realized it was far too broad a generalization, changed it to this, seen above: "Being unhappy about your weight isn't usually about self-control, it's almost always about fear. Unhappiness. More fear."
Everything else in the post is the same.
~~~JustJuli, seems we're much alike. I certainly agree that self-love is the best way to change yourself for the better in any way.
~~~Dakini, you are an inspiration!!! (So why isn't anybody yelling at you? ;) I'm just kidding, okay? I took a beating and I'm still ticking....
~~~JK, what kind things you say about me. You're not a wimp. Believe me, for all I reveal, there's a LOT that I don't,
~~~new blog, I don't know if it's the same for men (though I think it is) but women LOSE bone density as we age, and the only way to fight that besides medications is using weights, which is what I do.
~~~Sao Kay, thank you SO MUCH. It's nice to know you read and understood and Heard me. I fear too many did not and that I hurt people without meaning to... but you, Juli and Dakini just added a lot to my day.
Jesus H. Christ, as someone else said. I normally avoid these kinds of posts because it always becomes a flame war. Anybody who says they are happy to have lost weight and kept it off is attacked. I know, because I have lost weight and kept it off. Mine was through incredible stress, but I have maintained it as a healthy lifestyle.
Why does that make me or Sally bad people? Why do people who are overweight take that as some sort of rallying cry for attacking anybody who isn't comfortable being heavy? If we're not allowed to say anything at all that might be taken as an insult no matter how unintentional or benign, that why doesn't the same courtesy extend to people who have fought and won a battle that was important to THEM?
Goddammit. I expected more from OS. I really did.
I am not at all surprised that you can find NO pictures of yourself at over 200 pounds. That rings true FOR ME and for the family members and friends I've known who have struggled with obesity.
I am making no judgments about others here or elsewhere, just saying that my mom and several of her friends struggled with overweight issues and would avoid going out in public and had pretty low self-esteem. They would never have their pictures taken when at their heaviest.
After various weight-loss strategies (including bariatic (sp?) surgery) these women have become more outgoing, more confident, and more attractive because they feel more attractive and pay more attention to wearing clothes that fit and taking care of their hair and such.
Do all overweight women fit this profile? Of course not. Again, I'm not judging, just observing that your experience resonates with what I've known.
Personally, I've struggled with extra pounds, but not obesity. I've done Weight Watchers in the past and your tips are consistent with the program and echo what worked for me. I haven't maintained it, which I attribute to slacking off on exercise and some new medicines I'm taking, but I do know that I feel better about myself when I am closer to my goal weight and a healthy BMI.
Whether this is just a reflection of body image obsession or cultural norms, I don't know.
I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and to respond to all the comments here with patience and thoughtfulness.
This is my first time visiting a weight post so I didn't realize that these turn into flame wars as bad those involving shipping (that's an anime/tv reference).
I thought I was on Politco or HuffPo or somewhere other than OS, which is supposed to be a personal blog community, based on these comments.
I, for one, am sure as hell not editing my posts to address the issues of others. My posts are about ME: my opinions, my reflections, my issues, and occasionally my pictures.
On that note I think my next post will be on my fitness regime out here in Afghanistan with pictures. All my rolling (sparring) partners for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu will look fabulous on here.
Stay strong and happy Sally. This post is about you. Others can post about themselves if they so choose. Don't be hurt and others shouldn't let themselves be hurt by you talking about your past and issues.
This is OS....and somehow I thought we were a family.
Everyone is saying the other person is touchy about this issue and telling people to get over it, then they're getting all touchy about it if that person doesn't get all untouchy about it, then that person gets touchy and then says another touchy comment and then the first person gets touchy about the touchy touchy comment, then the other person gets touchy about the touchy touchy touchy comment.
This maybe a key to an EP - I'm going to use it.
My comment stands. And I applaud Sally for not deleting any of them. I HATE that.
It was pointed out to me that I didn't see the original post and that perhaps if I had, my reaction would be different. Maybe so.
peace
the problem is long term maintenance,
and the mental effort is comparable to being as obsessed as a born again christian, or active scientologist.
we were a family" Well, families fight!!!!!! It's what makes us all so
very charming.
The anger says a lot more about the angry than about Sally. Very enlightening!
It's not about being "happy," it's about being healthy. I wonder how many of those angry happy fatties could run a mile or do five push-ups? I wonder how many have weight-related health issues they might not even be aware of?
As a former big, fat fattie, myself, my experience is that being obese is almost always about unhappiness and fear. Paradoxically, perhaps, we often can't feel it and don't know it was there until one day, after we have completely changed our lives, we notice its absence. I've heard that expressed anecdotally so many times I now think it's the rule, rather than the exception.
What a hottie. No wonder Frank snared you.
And Emma, there's no "original post," just an added picture and an edit to opening sentence, which was received with appreciation by the few who took issue with it. Everything else is exactly as shown. The anger is still coming from others for reasons outside my ability to understand.
~~~Cindy, glad you got unconfused, believe me, I get the adhd issues. I do think Emma's exasperation is justified, certainly from my POV. This has clearly gotten too personal, out of hand and off topic. Please send around a notice when you post, I'll get in line to read with interest.
~~~M B, thank you!!
~~~Freaky, this is a key to an ulcer. I'd rather eat cake.
~~~Hugh, when you say that for long term maintenance, "the mental effort is comparable to being as obsessed as a born again christian, or active scientologist" you offend me and I'd think most people who worked hard to achieve a lifestyle far from obsession, rather one that's healthy and fun. Please don't confuse us with a Hollywood or tabloid version of obsessed under-eaters. Those people are ill, need help and are not me or any who've spoken here of achieving and keeping health and weight.
~~~Dakini, I was with you about families fighting until you got to "charming" ... ;)
~~~Dr.Spud, thank you for totally understanding my REAL accomplishment.
~~~Dana, thank you too for fixing on the unhappiness and fear, which was my issue. I must admit to being more than a little overcome by those shouting at me about their issues without appearing to have noticed Mine. Here on my own post. I urge anyone who has a different issue or POV to write a post about it and if I have something to say, I will comment as I always do, perhaps with passion, but without malice.
This is in response to Hipployta, who took the time and offered the kindness to comment and give me a pat on the back. ME, a woman safe in her own home her in America, free to be writing about losing weight and fear 30 years ago. Mine and all the rest of the comments here pale next to yours, Hipployta. Our petty concerns pale next to your actual REALITY.
We all need to take a deep breath and use it to thank Hipployta and her fellow military men and women for their service, courage, sacrifice and dedication on our behalf. And in Hipployta's case, for her interest and participation in OS from the other side of the world in harm's way. We need to let her know we are a family. One that keeps her and her comrades in our hearts and prayers. All the rest is just noise.
Hipployta, I love your intelligent understanding, fighting spirit and wicked humor. You are my sister, if you'll have me.
"One of your friends has been giving you some really good advice regarding your health, and it's time to stop feeling so defensive about it. They want the best for you! So if they're suggesting that you go to the gym, eat healthier food or put a stop a bad habit, it's not because they want to tell you how to live your life. It's because they want you to live a long and capable life. Take that chip off your shoulder and take some of what they say to heart."
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Sally, dear, are you speaking to me through the stars???
:)
Sally, you're okay in my book and I think I got your point. Everyone else, sorry that you didn't.
Interestingly I just got back from a week in Paris, where I lived for two years (2001-2003) and where I have spent a lot of time and the first thing I noticed--because it is so obvious--when we landed in Dulles is how much larger Americans are, especially the women, than they are in Paris. Please, please do not try and convince me that all Americans are fat because of medical conditions. I mean, get real. And I am not talking about 20 0r 30 pounds. I am talking about 50 plus pounds and obesity, morbid obesity.
I live in the South and have for most of my life and people keep getting fatter and fatter. I also see what they eat and how huge the portions are comparied to those in Europe and how we drive everywhere. And how we snack and snack and snack.
Look, if people wish to eat like that and sit around, that's fine, but please don't tell me that MOST Americans have are fat by heredity or medical condition. That covers a very small number. Please, please look at the way we live and the way we eeat and what we eat. And then compare that to other countries and even how we used to eat and how we used to live. I think we need to be honest and stop attacking people who choose to make the choice Sally did.
The comments were astonishing and I think her very very brave for leaving them up and even for engaging some of the meanest ones.
You want to be fat? Fine. But don't attack those of us who choose not to be.
I feel for those who have any kind of difficult of life threatening medical condition of any kind with side affects of any kind, seen or unseen. I think most of us have no idea what goes on the lives of others. But the nastiness over those who truly choose to take charge of their weight rather than make excuses about it blows my mind and always has.
You say you're fat and happy, not unhappy. Well, then, rather than getting angry at Sally, perhaps you should take the advice of none other than Rosanne Barr (no skinny bitch, she), when she said, "So you're fat. If you say you're happy being fat, then just be fat and shut up!"
and it appeared that the people who raised objections to the initial post (and that made some very valid points, by the way) had graciously left the field and left the last words to sally and her supporters...
dana, the way i see it...this fire was very nearly extinguished and then you came along with a can of gas..i can't imagine what motivated you to do this
i thought most had made peace with this whole thing
Also, as one who was overweight, even obese, for many years, I guess I feel ownership of the fatty label enough that I have standing to comment, to joke, to make light, to preach or lecture a little, to cry, to support, to pontificate, and to otherwise engage in the discussion of this huge (no pun intended) issue for so many Americans, especially women.
I mean no offense or gas tossing, just levity. That, and support for Sally, who never seems to have an unkind word, including this post (though I did not see the original).
Mea culpa.
Dana
S.
Way more than is indicated was changed.
She is lying about it.
no one else seems to have noticed that part of your success plan included not discussing your plan with your family. But I am noticing that.
For the record, my version of living the rejected fat girl's revenge story has been accepting myself as I am and refusing to change myself in order to win any man or woman's love. And I'm disturbed not by your post, but by the comments of some posters on your thread that seem to judge a woman's self love, self acceptance, attractiveness, and even "health" solely by a number on a scale (which is classic given the current political climate). My absolute most risky health-wise period in life was when I worked as an aerobics instructor who was also bulimic. And I sure did get a lot of compliments back then on my body. I weigh a lot more now, I get virtually not a one compliment on my body, but I do walk and exercise regularly, and am in a much better place, physically and spiritually than I was then.
But I'm sorry if your family did not support you in your plan to start loving yourself better. You have my sympathy, and my congratulations on a life that you seem happy and contented with.
A few people come to this post, leave the most polite criticisms they can, (really...start from the top..) and cover Sally in love and compliments to make sure they she knows they mean no ill will....
One person leaves some pretty fecking angry stuff, has been called on it, and has taken her criticism too. She did some stuff I didn't like and fanned the flames some more as well...not good.
And then the fucking peanut gallery chimes in and says things far fucking uglier than the original criticisms.....stoking the fires, fanning the flames....racheting up the fucking DRAMA. All the while making DAMN sure that anyone who isn't thin is insulted as much as possible in their effort to back up Sally...
That will teach us! You fucking bet! THANK YOU!
I'm gonna shut the fuck up now. And I am never gonna read another post on body or how to get thin on this nasty fucking board again.
Sally, like I said in the beginning...Congrats, I am glad it made you happy. Genuinely. Really. And when you tweaked that sentence to say that those feelings of fear were about you rather than all fat people, I was glad to understand your original intent. Happy, Simple..done.
That's simple....but no, thats not enough! Not when there is righteous indignation, personal insults, and mean spirited humor to be added by people who are coming in late to the game!
Not when there are dark motivations assumed, denial assured, bullshit to be flung!
Christ, what a ridiculous clusterfuck.
Everyone else can kiss my big freckled arse.
~~~bobbot, thank you for recognizing that I'm not indicting anyone and never was. And that this post is about me, my story, with the tips included as requested in the comments on the preceding post and in PM's.
~~~Lisa, your articulate comment speaks for itself. Interesting you mention Paris (hope you had a great trip), I commented somewhere in the forest above that people in France, though eating high fat foods, are much thinner than Americans. Partly the red wine, experts say. You're correct to add portion size.
~~~This is the part of your comment which speaks to why, I believe, this post has become such a lightening rod: "I feel for those who have any kind of difficult of life threatening medical condition of any kind with side affects of any kind, seen or unseen. I think most of us have no idea what goes on the lives of others."
~~~Dana, I have a twisted sense of humor too (I know too well that when you've been heavy and unhappy about it for years, you develop humor as a defense). I very much appreciate your support. I know you to be a good person too, and I don't believe you have a mean bone in your body. But I'm glad you apologized. It seems even with the best of intentions, nobody is able to speak on this subject without offending somebody.
~~~angus, you're correct, two valid complaints were made and I addressed them. Please see my comment below.
~~~Deven, I'm very sorry if you were offended. I would never want to see you hurt. I would never want to see you muted. Never. I have to believe you know that.
~~~Sheri, glad you enjoyed. I want to get to know your blog now.
~~~BBE, I haven't read Elizabeth's post because I was fairly certain it would upset me. I guess I have as much right as anybody not to be upset.
~~~Elizabeth and EVERYBODY ELSE, THERE IS NO OTHER POST. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST. I have repeatedly said I added one larger-sized picture of me to the top and changed the opening sentence under the bolded quote. I have repeatedly typed the original opening sentence in comments to anyone who asked what had offended first readers. I won't be baited into repeating it again, especially because I don't like that I offended people with it in the first place and have apologized I think enough.
And, Elizabeth, I most definitely do not appreciate being called a liar. Here or anywhere. Clearly this post offended you in a major way for which I have tried to apologize to no avail and I am determined to remain civil. But I will get nowhere continuing to try to appease you. This is my blog, my post, my story and I will not defend it further to anyone.
~~~princessy, I've replied to this already but happy to say again, that at the time I didn't tell my family because I didn't want to raise expectations, get unwanted advice or feel under a microscope. I was in my 20's, not a time most people want their families in their business. I certainly do now and really always have... just was skittish, that's all.
~~~Persephone, you're the voice I would like to use but well, you're braver, it's just not my outside voice. I so agree that this could and should have been far far far more simple. Who knew? Certainly not I. Again, I hope WE'RE okay.
One great thing is that women of size - your size in that picture - can now look fantastic because fashionable clothes are being made to fit most bodies. I appreciate that I never have to look like you - although I should blog about bra shopping and the inherent pain and grief sometime.
I kind of think the title of the post was the ire producer - I read it and thought: : "What rejected fat girl, bitch?"
Also glad you exchanged the happy birthday chorus line t-shirt for one with a collage of OS'ers . Although I don't think it flatters you. Not having a head is also not flattering!
I love your pictorials , and I'm glad that you have fulfilled your goals.
I am not passive aggressive. I think you are revising history. Three of the most gentle souls I have ever known in real or online life were just as offended as me but are a lot less blunt.
Maybe we all imagined it at the same time. Or maybe you changed more than your comments reflect. It is not a matter that can be reconciled, as the record of it is gone.
I wish I had copied it to a regular file. But then I would be accused of altering it before reposting it.
And the reason that I am not allowing comments in Revised v Updated is because this is getting plenty of air time here and I just don't want this in my blog.
I have made about 10 comments here among about 150 or so, so I am not your problem. If I were the only one that took issue with what you said, I would even question my own recollection, but that is not the case. Two of mine were simply returning your remarks that had no appropriate permanent home in my blog.
Reread your comments without the blinders of only seeing the support and look at what people are actually saying.
It is not nice. I am not nice. I was called a vicious bitch. And that was cool with you.
So, ok.
Also, though...When the big snowball fight comes. I will be on the vicious bitch side.
Because You are having a Lousy Posting Experience, for which I am sorry I ever got involved.....
And whereas we fatties are told daily we are fundamentally wrong from all sides, and in all ways.......that is, when we aren't being told to shut up, cover up, or change right the fuck now, you lazy, gruesome slobs.....
And I can throw.
And our fort is way rad.
BASTA!
I WAS a rejected girl. I have been a rejected woman. I've had healthier relationships with guys who love me not despite or because - it's a package, and I dare say we all are more than our BMI or whatevers.
I took offense at the title, and then got sort of taken in by the flames hours later!
There are many wonderful people blogging about weight issues, morbid obesity, their own take on things RIGHT NOW! So many great stories - just like yours, sally.
(OMG that dress will haunt me!)
Very well said.
Rated.
I really understand both sides because I went from sedentary and unfit in college (and did face some brutal comments from some of the men I briefly dated) to finding a healthier lifestyle for myself and exercising and getting crossing the line from overweight to average (never EVER thought of myself as a slim person in hiding, however). Those days were a lot of fun, "fat girl's revenge" was a very shallow part of the fun, but was never my sole motivation for getting active. My motivation at the age of 20 was realizing that climbing the four steps onto the bus was leaving me winded. Who is winded from climbing four steps onto a bus at the age of 20? I had no other health problems to blame.
My decade of fitness ended during the years I started working at a law firm full time, got married, and have been pregnant or nursing almost non stop for the past four years. Talk about yo-yo ! My last pregnancy pushed me over 200 and I am only 5'3". Talk about being winded on the staircase!!! Nursing followed by weight watchers helped take that off only to get me pregnant again.
Walking is the sole form of exercise I do for the time being but I do intend to have a more sane work life balance that will afford me my own personal gym time again soon.
Oh, that is my story of success and defeat and finally ceding my body (temporarily) to the forces of reproduction and economics.
Thankfully it is an ongoing saga! But I completely understand why women feel judged whenever a woman puts her success story out there for others to read. I have been on both sides of it. It is the same competition that you see between working vs. stay at home mothers.
No woman can say-- hey I did this great thing that made my feel better, made my life better, and I think it helped make me a better person-- without implicitly judging all the women who took a different path in their lives.
We should try to take ourselves out of it. Maintaining a healthy attitude and approach to food and fitness for 20 or 30 years and counting is a great accomplishment.
The title was suggested by a friend and commenter and seconded by others in the previous post... did you by any chance read the first two? No flame wars there, and perhaps you'd appreciate this one more in context of those. If you read them you will see I was rejected in a particularly horrible way. But actually, not for being fat. I just recognized that the fat was helping me attract bad men and keeping me from trusting good ones. Not to mention it was literally killing me.
1. "Sally Needs" ... To Tell You About Her First Time (In Love)
2. Saving Sally...Sally becomes a new Sally
~~~Persephone, I don't know if I have the strength for any more snowball fights. I can't stand confrontation and fighting. I never ever ever made derogatory remarks about anyone's size or shape or lifestyle. Who am I to judge? Nobody, that's who. You stuck it out on my behalf and got bashed for your effort, for which I am truly, truly sorry. Please, please, don't lump me in with the judgementals. You know I am not one of them.
~~~Elizabeth, I see people supporting me AND bashing me in the comments. Most who complained did so in the beginning about my opening sentence and lack of relevant picture and then thanked me for acknowledging my mistake and correcting it. Only you did not. Commenters here seem to be bashing each other, which troubles me, but they're handling things among themselves, as adults.
Okay, I just now found the bitch comment. I do think BBE should not have called you a vicious bitch and I told him I don't like bashing. I defended your right to remove comments and have your say. So it wasn't cool with me and I said so. You, on the other hand, have been quite sanguine about attacking me. Even seem to revel in it. Called me a liar over and over. Made a post bashing and trashing me. And you're cool with that.
~~~Patrick, thank you, you quoted the heart of my piece and my accomplishment.
~~~aka, I've asked myself the same question for three days.
~~~Jennifer, you have a fascinating story, I am very sorry for your many ups and downs. Clearly you are not alone in that, especially after having children and being a working mother. My hat's off to you for the hard work you do. As for me, I didn't THINK of myself as a thin person in hiding, that's what I finally found out I was.
I understand why some may feel judged but I don't think it's fair to put that on me... or to assume I'm explicitly or implicitly judging others by telling my own story. Many recovering alcoholics and drug abusers have told their stories and no one accused them of judging those still struggling with addiction. Same with abused children and women.
I am not comparing obesity with addiction or abuse, I am pointing out that stories of personal success in any area of life are about the person telling them, NO ONE ELSE.
I greatly appreciate those who have read, appreciated my personal story and struggle and told me so. I also learn from those who tell me their stories and opinions too. We can all learn from each other. If we listen with open minds.
I did not read this before and do remember seeing a post before in which you had some language that losing weight was revenge/lead to a happy life. To be honest I just quit reading after I read that language. Perhaps that is what people are responding to emotionally? Being thin really does not equate with happiness.
I was always thin until my metabolism changed in my mid-thirties and then I lost 25 pounds to make my then husband happy. He was so happy I ended up ooops pregnant when I was 41. So I was definitely not thin at 41/42 being pregnant and post pregnant.
Once Tyler started walking right before she turned one I realized I had to lose that 25 pounds again that came with the pregnancy since is was no longer "baby" weight. So I was thin for a few years until cancer treatment and steroids. Gained the 25 pounds again.
Students wrote observation essays in class the other day and one estimated my height, size, weight etc. (she was not being mean as describing people was part of the assignment) and she pegged me two sizes larger than I really am. OUCH. So now I realize I have to lose those 25 pounds again. It has been four months since I had treatment or post treatment complications so I have no excuse.
So I have lost or will lose 75 pounds over a six year period -- just the same 25 pounds three times.
To be honest I wish I did not have to. Dieting never works for me unless it is just grilled chicken/fish and vegetables and more of the same. And then there is no wine and that sucks. But it works. And bike riding and using a weighted hula hoop to reduce my weight size will work.
I just don't want to do it.
But I would like to look better to others and maybe someday have a lovelife again. And men don't like heavier women. I don't think this is fair because I have dated men of all body types.
This is long. I'm sorry. It is just that what most people want or hope for is being accepted/loved for who they are and not meeting an ideal that is boring or hard to maintain.
There were some nasty mean pictures in the National Enquirer this week and one was of a very heavy woman who happens to be happily married to a handsome dashing actor. The captions made fun of her and all I could think was good for her and him. I'm glad they love and have each other. I want that fat or thin. I think we all deserve that.
I did admit to feeling triumphant about my accomplishment, but the emphasis was on my loss of FEAR, not weight. A bonus, I agree, but the reason I don't have trouble keeping it off is that it's not in my genes. I was working hard to keep weight on. I know that doesn't resonate with people who have to work to take weight off, but it's my truth and I put it out there along with the whole story of being dumped and almost dying, having no clue how many would take my joy in my recovery as a personal attack.
I'm so sorry for your medical problems. I didn't know about them and I have no idea what size you are, so I hope you can at least believe I wasn't targeting you or anyone else. I've read posts by people here celebrating their happiness in their own larger bodies. I believed them and said in both posts that I celebrate anyone who's happy and healthy, no matter what they look like. I detest bashing of any kind... it's the person inside who counts.
This is a long reply. The bottom line is I hope you can get and stay healthy, no matter what size. Health comes first. Mental health too, in the sense of feeling good about yourself. Then the rest can and should follow. I hope it does. I wish you health and happiness and comfort and peace.
You are doing an amazing job here, and I really, truly respect you for it. When I said, in my comments, that others were blogging I hoped that it would prompt people to look at some other blog posts about weight, morbid obesity, losing/gaining.
You were da bomb in the 1970's - you're still da bomb! Talking about The Dress was my way of changing the tone, i guess. I wanted to add a little levity.
I'm just so glad that I never have to wear that dress. The 80's are back, and I'm sort of a wreck -it wasn't good the first time!
I really get that you could have died - almost did die - and I can't imagine what it must have been like.
You're a wonderful writer, and an outstanding moderator of your own blog! I'm glad you're here.
We should do a blog tag team on bra shopping - maybe an open call! boob appreciation day.
The title. Rejected Fat Girl's Fantasy still causes me to react, and is why I didn't read your post, at first. Until it was sort of impossible NOT to read it.
As an accepted fat woman, I was very suspicious of what you were trying to say. Especially about fantasies and revenge.
Your post, in it's myriad forms, is clearly not about rejected fat girls or their fantasies. It's almost a disservice to what you are saying, so well and so clearly, to have the title be so offputting.
That's mho etc. - I look forward to reading more about Sally Swift.
Thanks very much for your compliments and constructive critique. It got lost in the shuffle, but it's at the end of the post and I've mentioned in comments that the title and the request for Tips were given to me: Thanks to Lisa Kern for the first part of the title. Thanks to Karin Rego for the idea to add some tips.
I put myself out there vulnerably, no matter the title (I WAS the title), and some people put themselves in here angrily, possibly in part because of it. In hindsight, maybe not the best idea, but really, who knew?
In the end, I stand by my continuing goal to be the strongest, healthiest, happiest me I can be. And I wish the same for you and everybody else. The rest is just noise.
L'Chaim!
Great series by the way.