Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
JANUARY 23, 2009 5:30PM

Jon Kyl: On Notice

Rate: 31 Flag

Every story must have a villain, and for eight years, there have been myriad candidates to choose from. Now that we have a new administration, I've been wondering who might fill the enormous void left by Dick Cheney and his closest friends -- and I've settled, at least for now, on Jon Kyl, the other Senator from Arizona and current Minority Whip. Kyl came onto my RADAR after calling President Obama's Inaugural address "low brow," but today's meeting with the president has further affirmed to me that this is a man I won't be inviting to dinner in the next few years.

Today, top congressional leaders met with President Obama to discuss the economic stimulus plan:

[Kyl] challenged the president and the Democratic leaders over the balance between the package’s spending and tax cuts, bringing up the traditional Republican notion that a tax credit for people who do not earn enough to pay income taxes is not a tax cut but a government check.

Obama noted that such workers pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, property taxes and sales taxes. The issue was widely debated during the presidential campaign, when Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, challenged Obama’s tax plan as “welfare.”

You may have already seen Obama's summary response to Kyl, but it's worth repeating. "Challenged by [Kyl] over the contents of the package, the new president, according to participants, replied, 'I Won.'"

Welcome to the new world, Jon Kyl. Just because Obama is interested in bipartisan discussion doesn't mean he's willing to compromise his party's values. There's meaning in victory, as Republicans proved to us again and again and again from 2001-now, and I'm extremely excited to see the president acknowledging that capital now. Sometimes, even in the "post-partisan" world, "I won" really means "you lost."

I respect Kyl and his colleagues for sticking to their increasingly unpopular guns on issues like this; really, I do. It is important that all sides are heard -- something that hasn't been the rule in D.C. for a while. Having said that, it's not always important that both sides are happy, particularly when they are wrong, as Kyl is in his "they don't pay taxes" assertion, and particularly when they've just faced massive rejection of their core philosophy by a majority of American voters.

This adherence to conservative principle seems to be coming a little late, since Kyl didn't appear too troubled by actual fiscal conservatism when he voted, twice, to authorize TARP, or when he claimed in October that President Bush has no responsibility for the current economic mess. It's also stunning to hear Kyl saying he's helped delay the confirmations of both Timothy Geithner and Eric Holder because he believes more information is needed and more time must be spent on these decisions. He was pretty quick in 2005 to support Alberto Gonzeles, partly on the strength of his endorsements, calling him a "compelling example of the American Dream" and " a credit to his people, his home state of Texas, and the nation he has served in so many ways."

See, the difference is that now Kyl has started paying attention again, because the guy who won isn't his guy any more. Apparently, it's the dawn of a new day for Republicans, a day where you have to show up for work, instead of just phoning it in. Only here's the thing: just as he's not willing to call a truce with Obama, I'm not willing to call a truce with him. Mr. Kyl, you and your friends in the Bush White House got us into these messes, so you'll excuse me if your newfound desire to stand on principle is less than inspiring. Welcome back to doing your job; I hope it sucks for at least the next four years.

Expect to hear more from Kyl. Being an Opposition Leader offers a tremendous platform for yelling and screaming (and also, thank goodness, for getting shot down by the president). It also, of course, offers a keen platform for running for president -- as Kyl's colleague from Arizona, Sen. John McCain, was so kind to point out last night when he mentioned Kyl as a possible 2012 contender.

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
""Challenged by [Kyl] over the contents of the package, the new president, according to participants, replied, 'I Won.'"

Just had to see that again. :-)
You just made my day. Our new guy has Chicaogan balls of stainless steel.
Yes, let them campaign on the same crap that was just rejected. By all means. Give us your "best".
Great as always, Saturn. Especially like, being heard is not the same as being happy.
You know where to cut between the wheat and the chaff girl.

rated
Saturn - spot on.

It would be funny if these guys weren't in charge of any decisions. Oh, wait, it still is kind of funny.

On the journalistic side, you can add Krauthammer & Gerson to the list of people who will be spouting nonsense from their ideological soap-boxes. I'm damn near cancelling my subscription to the Washington Post (& we get two papers every day) simply b/c they give Gerson space for his absolute drivel.

Krauthammer went off today on Obama's "mediocre" speech. If that doesn't beat all!
Someone should remind Kyl that there are many filthy rich people and big corporations who don't pay taxes either because they hide their profits off-shore. Someone should remind Kyl that he's being paid a helluva lot more than he's worth, and the he personally doesn't have to worry about health-care insurance or Social Security or being cheated out his pension -- a huge pension he'll receive after only six years of service.

Someone should remind Kyl of all this just before they take it all away and kick his ass out the door.
Verbal, o'Stephanie -- yeah! I loved his line, too. Our new president is cool. There's just no better way to say it.

Thanks, Susanne. Maybe it's because I have farmers in my family? ;)

Lps, I admit I have avoided Krauthammer because reading him takes years from my life in the blood-pressure spikes that ensue. The only conservative that the Post keeps around that I enjoy reading -- though I still heartily disagree -- is George Will.

Tom, from your typing fingers to the Arizona voters' eyes...
"...the new president, according to participants, replied, 'I Won.'"

Whoo-Hoo! I absofnlutely Love this!
Muy grandes cajones, has Barack Obama. I keep telling people. This guy set the table during his transition for bi-partisanship, but that was his Olive Branch. Now the chips are down and I think Barack is going to be a well seasoned player. There are always going to be a Newt Gingrich (to Clinton), or a Dick Cheney (to all the world), and this little puke will be no different. The proof will be in how Obama stands or wilts next to them.

My money is on the stern chinned, thin but strong, articulate and passionate new President.

Call me a dreamer. Call me naive. Just don't ever call me late for dinner. ;-)

Wonderful work from the OS Future Pulitzer Prize winner.
(rated)
Aw, Greg, your comments make my day. And also, speaking of dinner, make me hungry. ;)

Conniemack, that's an excellent way to put it -- I felt the same reading his comment. Woo hoo!
Another ass from my blood red state, joy.
I feel your pain, pretend farmer -- I'm originally from Kansas. So I promise not to hold him against the people of the state. Well, at least not all of the people.
One day in the not so distant future, we will all know who was right about how to stimulate the economy. Both the democrats and republicans will be proven wrong. They only disagree on how to spread the wealth. Got to you tube and listen to any of the Peter Schiff videos. He was one of the few who saw the collapse coming, and his predictions about what will happen after all the debt gets created is scary.

We won't be chatting about who "won". But how America lost.
I'm glad Obama put that asshat in his place. The GOP has been served notice: We hate you. You lost. You no longer call the shots. You no longer matter. Bye.
Kyl has been in my targets since the Lieberman-Kyl amendment, a couple of years ago.

These days are not good times to be a liberal in Arizona, considering that our two senators are Kyl and McCain, our governor is Jan Brewer, and both houses in the legislature are Republican controlled.
Those of us who live in Arizona have a particular obligation to call him out on his oft-repeated foolishness, as I did last week when he made the laughable claim that Obama's stimulus package will add to the federal deficit “without having any stimulative effect or creating any new jobs for laid off workers.” E-mail, text, complain to radio jockeys and newspaper editors. He's been allowed to go unchallenged for too long.
Another Zonie here, sorry that this poor excuse for a human being represents the state I live in.
Verbal, I'm with you. I really liked seeing that. Had to review it 2, 3 times. Still hard to accept something so great as real.
Well, there's welfare for the poor who don't know how to do an honest day's work and don't pay taxes, then there's corporate welfare for the rich. Guess which side this tool is on? Good on Obama for nailing him.

These guys have zero accountability, zero conscience, zero shame.
Great post. Kyl is on the Senate Finance Committee. Last week I watched about six hours of their hearing on SCHIP (state children's health insurance program). I have never watched such a contentious hearing, and I have to watch a lot of them. Kyl was just mean, mean, mean. I spoke with some of the staffers after the hearing (R and D). Let's just say the Rs were/are having a VERY hard time with this new reality. I think they really didn't think it could happen, the change in power and their inability to control committee votes anymore. It has not yet sunk in.

BTW - SCHIP goes to the Senate floor this week. And for a bill that should be as bipartisan as it gets, it is predicted to be a "bloodbath."
Excellent candidate!

I love these Republicans, who can criticize but not come up with concrete suggestions of their own. I have heard several say in the last couple of days, "It is easier out of power, than in power. Then you don't have to do anything but be critical of the present administration."
In a democracy, the role of "loyal opposition" is an important one. The Democrats played that role well for 8 years. Ideas have to be discussed in a healthy way, the other side has to be heard (this will be news to W). But it doesn't work when the opposition party uses name-calling, wedge issues, avoiding responsibility and pettiness.
I always wondered if Obama had the balls to stand up to the right wing nuts.

I guess the answer is yes.

I'd have been more of an ass if I were the President. I'd have said, look, we tried it your way for the past eight years. Ain't turned out so good, huh? So you'll excuse me if I want to go down a different road. Oh, and by the way, I won.
My guess is that Obama sees Kyl as more of a foil than a villian. The country is going to be very intolerant of obstructionism. Bush had Al Quaida, Obama will have the GOP.
“a tax credit for people who do not earn enough to pay income taxes is not a tax cut but a government check.”

I don't question that indeed this is the traditional republican line, I just don't understand why it is. The Republicans claim that it's important to remember that taxes are money belonging to the individual that is being yielded to the government, not money belonging to the government being given to the people. That's the whole basis for the desire for estate tax relief, capital gains tax relief, etc. But in this one case, they think that failing to take the money earned and owned by a low-income individual is a government tax giveaway. I think “they” [*] should be relentlessly held to account for the inconsistency involved in such a statement, not to mention the inhumanity of it (which seems not to matter a lot to them).

[*] They = the ones writing the playbook for the Republican party. I suspect there are many decent Republicans who aren't like this and don't want me calling them inhumane. They can avoid me thinking of them that way by standing up for less taking from the poor and especially less reference to such greedy taking as being any kind of government handout or check. A tax credit is not a check; it is declining to take because it recognizes that a citizen is already doing their part, sometimes by investing in America, sometimes by just putting up with the fact that America has not invested a whole hell of a lot in them.
***I'm damn near cancelling my subscription to the Washington Post (& we get two papers every day) simply b/c they give Gerson space for his absolute drivel.***

I subscribed to the Post for 30 years [1978-2008] and for a few years prior [1969-1972]. However, when Len Downie took over and started inviting all his right wing friends to populate the editorial page and editorial board, I cancelled. It was hard, being without the "hard copy" of a newspaper I'd become used to. I actually ended up re-subscribing, but yet another of the right-wingers rants or editorial positions drove me from the fold. They called, snail-mailed & e-mailed me for months, pleading with me to come back, and it satisfied me no end to tell them, each time, why there was NO CHANCE that I would do so.

It's a hard habit for us oldsters to break, but it's worth it. I encourage you.
Peter, I don't think Obama was talking about winning in quite the terms you're thinking of, but I'll make sure to check out the Schiff videos.

Icemilk, I think they do still matter, but it is nice to see them reminded of what the meaning of this election was.

Jon, Joseph, Nerdyjen, you do seem to have a grim situation in AZ. Keep up the good fight, though.

Emma, at least the no accountability problem seems to be getting better, with Obama et al, right?

Wakingupslowly -- SCHIP being a bloodbath makes me a little ill. What are they thinking?

GMGaston - Yeah, I'm afraid we're moving toward a "we're less responsible for what we say now!" situation with the out of power GOP. Never a good situation.

Faith -- yes! Loyal Opposition. I look forward to seeing how that plays out with this administration. Some seem to be embracing the role, which seems a good sign for democracy. And like WorkingClassDem says, he does seem to be more of a foil for the moment than an actual obstacle.

Tony, indeed, he does seem up to the fight, and though I enjoy your response more, I think he mya have made/kept more friends with his succinct reply.

Kent, I'm with you, and I do think there are a few that wouldn't want to be seen in the way you're describing, but may have no choice if party solidarity becomes important to re-election. SOme of this depends on who the next RNC chair is.

MauiMom, good on you for explaining your reasons when they call! The actual paper edition is a hard habit to break, though, I agree.
SCHIP - two issues. The House bill and the S F Committee bill allow for coverage of LEGAL immigrant children. Kyl and a few others say "legal immigrant" are code words for illegal immigrant. Yep. Also, the bill allows states to go higher than 300% FPL for coverage (few will) and though parents pay a lot for that coverage, the Rs are against it.

Olympia Snowe (R Maine) and Collins (R Maine) may be helpful, because we hear the Rs may filibuster.

I am so ready for SCHIP to be done!
After 8 long years of NO-BROW, I'd settle for low-brow. Altho the idea a torture-friendly hack lawyer from the wasteland of Arizona knows the difference instills a certain amount of cognitive dissonance.
Good point about the Republicans getting us into this mess. They don't have much to stand on really. It is especially hypocritical for them to say they are looking out for the taxpayers. Where were they the last 8 years--oh, right, they were for the wealthy taxpayers. Good post.
LOW BROW? Does Kyl come from some kind of silver spoon background? First we had many from both sides of the political spectrum - including the editors of the NY Times - who didn't like Clinton because he didn't come from an upper middle class background. It's different for African-Americans - at least for now. So people like Kyl have to say something negative. But LOW BROW? This from a party whose mantra for 8 yrs has been "tax cuts and 9/11?" Somehow it was ok to have a trillion dollar deficity if it involved tax cuts and war machines, but not for getting the country back on its feet and actually employing people? Give me a break. Good for Obama to say pointedly "I won."
The real problem with the stimulus package is that as it stands, the federal government has a net worth of minus thirty trilllion dollars, not including what amounts to the loss of guaranteeing the entire financial sector of the economy. Who knows the size of that loss, but it will be in the trillions.
Absent a credible path to entitlement reform, this stimulus will merely accelerate a federal government bankruptcy and a follow on hyperinflation.
The elites of both parties have led us to this juncture.
Mr. Obama should be credited in his speech by the way, with at least hinting at the fact that the real problem of the United States is that we have not dealt with such long term problems in the first place.
If you've decided to select Kyl to be your republican boogie man then you probably should start with a bio on the man:

U.S. Senator Jon Kyl (R-Arizona)
Republican Whip

Biography

Jon Kyl was elected to the U.S. Senate from Arizona in 1994 and re-elected in 2000 and 2006, after having served four terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. As the Republican Whip, he is the second-ranking member of the Senate Republican Leadership and responsible for building support on key issues.

He serves on the Senate’s Finance Committee, where he is the ranking Republican on the Subcommittee on Taxation and IRS Oversight, and on the Judiciary Committee, where he is the ranking Republican on the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security.

Among recent accomplishments and legislative efforts, Kyl has:

Led efforts to increase funding for border security and other immigration enforcement;


Served as the driving force behind the landmark Arizona Water Settlements Act;


Won passage of legislation to establish the Ecological Restoration Institute at Northern Arizona University, and to expand Arizona’s Petrified Forest National Park;


Won passage of a historic bill guaranteeing the rights of crime victims; and


Successfully fought for strong anti-terrorism tools for law enforcement, including the “Lone-Wolf Fix” to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Before his public service, Kyl practiced law at Jennings, Strouss & Salmon in Phoenix. In 1985 he served as chairman of the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce.

Born in Oakland, Nebraska, Kyl received both his bachelor’s and law degrees from the University of Arizona. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa and was editor-in-chief of the Arizona Law Review. He and his wife Caryll have two children, Kristine Kyl Gavin and John Kyl, and four grandchildren.
and as our new republican boogie man who we have selected to hate lets read a piece he wrote on martin luther king day:

Honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
By U.S. Senator Jon Kyl


In 1963, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. joined a quarter-million people on the National Mall for the March on Washington. After years of smaller demonstrations, this historic event began to galvanize a movement. People of all ages and races joined together to pursue a common goal of racial equality. Now, we reflect on the impact of Dr. King’s life and the mark that he left on American history.

Dr. King’s roots as a pastor shaped the principles that guided his leadership of the civil rights movement. His position at the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, in the 1950s and 1960s gave him a pulpit from which to gain the respect and confidence of the African-American community. He battled the injustice of segregation, but his commitment to nonviolence set him apart from his radical counterparts. He passionately promoted the ideals of peace, freedom, and racial unity. As racial tensions escalated in Montgomery, King’s prominent status gave him the unique opportunity to lead a community away from violence and toward peaceful civil disobedience.

Beginning with the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955, Dr. King and other community leaders organized nonviolent protests of segregation laws in many southern cities. These massive, peaceful demonstrations gained national attention and gave hope to many. The March on Washington stirred President Lyndon Johnson and congressional lawmakers to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Foreign audiences even drew inspiration from King and led peaceful independence movements in more than 100 countries.

At the Lincoln Memorial, an engraving marks the place on the steps where Dr. King delivered his “I Have a Dream” speech. From that stone, one can look across the National Mall toward the Capitol, where we will witness another historic event on January 20. The Inaugural swearing-in ceremonies of America’s first African-American president give us the opportunity to reflect on Dr. King’s dream.

In most respects, it has been fulfilled. Not only have all public vestiges of segregation ended, the attitudes of Americans have obviously changed. You can imagine how proud he would be this Inauguration day.

King’s legacy of service also endures in the way we commemorate a day in his honor. In 1994, Congress enacted legislation that recognized Martin Luther King, Jr., Day as a national day of service. Schools, families and religious organizations orchestrate and participate in volunteer projects across the country. These include distributing food at homeless shelters, cleaning parks, and constructing homes for impoverished families. Millions of Americans will follow Dr. King’s example and serve in their neighborhoods. It is important to recognize that building up America starts with our local communities.

As we remember Dr. King, let us be vigilant of the principles that he firmly held: a firm and confident belief in the Almighty and in the promise of freedom and equality in America’s founding documents. We should honor him by continuing to pursue his dream.
you see my dear our politics are way too screwed up these days. too many people engaging in partisan politics. "My guy is a hero and your guy is the antichrist is what prevails."

inho BUSH was a good man who did a lot of good as president.

Obama is also a good man who will try to do a lot of good as president.

Perhaps some day we can learn to appreciate all of those who have chosen to serve their country and put up with our bullshit.
Nobody said that Kyl wasn't a good man.

People have a problem with his position.

Obama should try to work with him, but if he isn't someone who can be worked with, then Kyl should be viewed as an obstacle to accomplishing a goal.

And if someone gets in the way, you run their ass over and you show no mercy.
The only republicans left in office are the most racist, including not just Kyl, but also John McCain. They are against the tax credit because the majority of the poor are people of color. And when allowed to vote, they vote Democratic. The denials of this that they offer are absurd when compared to all their actions. I can only hope that in the next eight yrs they are beaten down to nothing.
Ed, I did (I promise) read his bio and actually had read that Op-Ed before I wrote this piece. I take issue with his use of MLK Day to forward the idea that the laws of the United States should be based upon Christian tradition, but I think that's another post. I'm interested to know what particularly indicates that I'm attacking Kyl as a person, instead of for his political positions, or without sufficient knowledge of his professional biography -- because my intention is not to call him a bad person, but a bad leader.

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful comments on this post, btw!
And also, Matthew, while I agree overall that there's been a pattern of voting that has worked to restrict minority rights by the Republican party, I can't in good faith agree to brand them all racists. There are certainly decent public servants on both sides of the aisle who vote in the ways they do for any number of reasons, and just as I wouldn't want my party to be generalized based on the worst behaving members, nor do I think that all Republicans (or even a majority) are racist and motivated by evil ideas.