Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
APRIL 18, 2009 6:25PM

It Is Not 1970 in the Midwest

Rate: 32 Flag

Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal yesterday declared the era of "bland affluence" over, because America is on its way back to 1970.  Noonan predicts a New York City so emptied by people with the desire to move to quieter, simpler towns that "By 2010 the mayor, in a variation on broken-window theory, will quietly enact a bright-light theory, demanding that developers leave the lights on whether there are tenants in the buildings or not, lest the world stand on a rise in New Jersey and get the impression no one's here and nobody cares."

She goes on to predict the death (figuratively) of all the fanciest stuff: tea-cup poodles, face-lifts, pristine storefronts, personal trainers, and single-family dwellings are about to be replaced with mainstream religion, multiple generations living in one home, slower living, gardening, "thicker and softer" bodies, and frayed carpet.

I am all for the death of personal trainers (which I mean figuratively, except in one case, and he knows who he is), but I think Noonan is taking this a little far.  She's trying to argue that America will go back to a time of reasonable consumption, but she's picked a representative decade that's a very poor model.  In fact, it would be hard to pick a decade since the 1930s in which conspicuous consumption wasn't a big part of the American M.O.

Noonan's nostalgia is not just for a time that doesn't exist, but for a place that doesn't exist.  Her piece was inspired by an article she read about a family who had moved onto a small farm (very small: 1/6th the size of my own family's small farm) in order to spend more time together and less time working just to pay the cable bills.  She also says she has a friend who has recently taken to searching the Internet for "small and farm-towns in which to live."  This, she says, represents a trend in Manhattan toward people seeking out simpler, more natural, slower -- read: country -- lifestyles.

Newsflash: It is not 1970 in Kansas.

The assumption that life is ever-so-much simpler and charming out in a farm town is a distinctly urban phenomenon.  People in small towns pay through the nose for high speed Internet and buy big, flat-screen TVs at about the same rate as those in the cities.  Costs of living are lower, but salaries are lower, too, and there's a travel cost -- an opportunity cost -- added to just about everything.  Maybe that would force a simplification of life for some; for most, it just means more driving -- which is where the "slower life" part of the equation would actually come in.

Past even that, I'm not sure what universe Noonan lives in -- though I suspect it has five burroughs -- where people in small towns are less conscious of "money, status, power" as markers of class than are people in cities.  Bland affluence and conspicous consumption struck the middle of the country just as hard and fast as it struck the Coasts1.  And we're about as likely to shake it off by moving to the big city as Noonan's crowd is to migrate out West.

It's irresponsible to be encouraging the idea that the complexities of our current financial problems as a country can be escaped by travelling (figuratively) back in time or (literally) out to the farm.  Deflation, which is everyone's worst nightmare right now, would happen a lot faster if everyone decided to try life off the city block for a while -- and then when they figured out what an enormous mistake they'd made, there would be no city to come back to, or at least no jobs there.

Everyone has problems.  It's troubling that Peggy Noonan thinks they have geographic solutions.

1In fact, none of my New York relatives get or want cable, whereas everyone I know in Kansas has at least one and usually three TVs and around 400 channels; even my grandparents have WiFi.  See, I can draw conclusions from tiny samples, too.

myspace counter

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
It's just the typical tripe from the right wing mouthpieces, who always extol the supposed virtues of the rural Midwest or South, but choose themselves to live in New York City. I laugh whenever I hear of Rush or Coulter talk like they live among the common folk of Nebraska or Kansas or Missouri or Georgia. Those are just about the last places they would choose to live. Rush, in fact, moved away from KC as soon as he made it big.

So Peggy, have you made an offer on a 2400 square foot home outside of Topeka? Heck, I can find you a great deal here in Northern Illinois, just 100 miles from Chicago!
She had a column due, didn't feel up to writing about torture, and pulled this out her ass. Like your footnote. monkey fingered.
I think she has it backwards. Most NYers don't have cars, go to museums and book readings, and are maybe not as consumed with things because they can't fit them in their small space.

Peggy Noonan is a dreamer who still idolizes Reagan. I wouldn't go for her predictions.
Yeah, the day I see Peggy Noonan living near Topeka will be the day I believe that "Friends" was a documentary of what it's like to live in NYC. Both seem equally plausible.

BBE, I think you're right -- the hazards of looming deadline and torture-writing fatigue. Probably also explains why it's so popular at the WSJ site at the moment.
Of course, if the cable company finds that its customer base shrinks by a factor of 10 because that many people are living in one place to save money, it's going to raise the rates by a substantial amount, claiming that more service is being provided, and that homes are effectively now movie theatres that should, if necessary, charge each person watching for enough to recover the cost of the service. Either that or the broadband company will say it's too expensive to provide the service to so few customers, and perhaps they'll go out of business. Some will, anyway, resulting in less competition, which will allow the rates to go up if not regulated. The problem with hypotheticals like the “everyone under one roof” thing is that they assume only that one fact will change and all other aspects of society will remain constant.

There is, of course, a motivation for people living more densely in order to optimize heating and cooling costs, or other factors... but that more dense living is, as you note, likely to be done in cities to minimize auto use, another major and somewhat-avoidable expense (if you're willing to live in a densely packed urban setting). Either way, luxury items will remain luxury items, and until our society finds another funding model, we're going to be asked to pay heavily for those no matter what we do.
You know, that is a piece of the puzzle I didn't think about Lea -- maybe it's Reaganostalgia at work, too.
Yeah. One of the points that's often missed in the greener-to-live-in-the-country debate is the efficiency loss in heating separate homes versus many homes stacked on top of each other, and the travel costs, etc. I think you're explaining the way that this could lead to deflation and monopoly better than I have, Kent.
" In fact, it would be hard to pick a decade since the 1930s in which conspicuous consumption wasn't a big part of the American M.O."

This is an irrelevant cavil, but I wonder if even that is true? Granted, CC could not be practiced during the depression by a great many people, but I'm not sure that means it was not a part of the M.O. For example, movie indulgences still celebrated wealth even as a few condemned bankers. (Oddly -- or not -- John Ford's "Stagecoach" is what comes to mind.)
Near where I live, and where I live is not that big of a place, is a small community. They have a place they call the "divorce house". It seems city dwellers wanting to get away from the hustle and bustle buy the house and plan to live the simple country lifestyle.
But they soon find that there is no Starbucks, no all night clubs, no black tie gatherings, the nearest movie theater is 30 miles away and the small town store doesn't have a gourmet isle. And when it snows they were stuck in the house for days before the roads were cleared. Worst of all they find that they don't really like each other.
In the city they were always preoccupied with going and doing and in the slow pace of rural America they find they only had each other. Within a few months they were getting on each others nerves and soon were filing for divorce. The house was sold as part of the settlement and then the next city couple, eager to live the rural lifestyle were moving in, and the cycle started all over again.
Noonan obviously has no idea what it takes to live the country lifestyle.
Beware the motives of a Reagan speechwriter.
Her's is not a a voice i tilt my head to. Exodus to the hinterlands? Highly unlikely in a anything close to a significant number. Even those who try it, if they were born and raised New Yorkers they will have so many practical and cultural hurdles to overcome that the numbers will be swiftly weeded out. City dwellers hardly know how to drive a car, if they are confronted with lawns, gardens, fuse boxes and percolating septic tanks in large numbers, it could get ugly.

The right wing mouthpieces who have earned (I know wrong choice of words) their measure of salt no longer reside with their people.

The absurd Palm Beach monstrosity that a childless Limbaugh resides in should leave little question in the minds of all but his most ardent followers of the true nature of his mission. His is the ultimate Medicine Show and he has horn swaggled them all. They are so obtuse (the listeners) that they have no clue. Hey, no one ever said the right wing nutters were at the front of the line when they were handing out brains. This is just more proof.
Gary, you know, you're probably right -- there was a fall off in overall luxury consumption during the 30s, but that probably served to make it more conspicuous. So not the bland affluence Noonan's talking about, but with the same class-ifying effect. Good catch.

Ocular, there's an awesome short story in there somewhere.

Indeed, Stacey. Words to live by.
Oh what planet is she living on? Urbanites have been moving into ex-urbs for a good decade now. Then someone's city kid gets accidentally shot by someone's hunting rifle, or gets addicted to oxycontin, and they all they move back.

Great points, Saturn, about urban life often being more minimalist in its consumption patterns. But life is going to get a hell of a lot more complicated before it starts getting simple again, I'm sure.
Ablonde, I agree -- highly unlikely. Which makes her certainty on the matter that much more puzzling and troubling.

And yeah, Juliet -- it gets more complicated no matter where people move, I think you're right.
It's always easier to romanticize the past or the future. Pick a golden little spot, let's call it On Golden Pond. The rest of their lives may be in chaos, the dad's frigid... but the water's fine and it's shot with a lot of golden color.

The present is tough, since we're all treading water in it.

We choose to remember what we want. I grew-up (aged) in the midwest. It was pretty idyllic unless you want to see reality.

You do not want to see me in shiny shirts and patent leather shoes... damn you Travolta... but I tend to remember much of the good.

I don't want to go back to the 70's... nor, do i think moving back to the midwest will solve our problems... just make new ones.
Saturn, I'm surprised you left out the funniest part of the Noonan piece: the example she gives is a guy who was a long-haul trucker. Long-haul truckers are not urbanites. They aren't usually even suburbanites. They live in rural and ex-urban areas, where land is cheap and 90-foot-long parking spaces feasible. Odds are, the guy in the article didn't move, he just made a career change.

But I take the article as a rebirth of the ’50s nostalgia the right had under Reagan. Back then, they reminisced about the good old days where families dined together, moms stayed at home, nobody was gay or had abortions and pedophiles didn't yet exist. Of course, almost nothing they yearned for ever existed. 20 years later, Noonan has just pushed her nostalgia forward 20 years (or back 20 years to when men were men like Clark Gable).
Besides just the expenses of living in a rural town--rent may be cheaper but food can be much higher--the notion that life is simpler and folks nicer has always confounded me.

I grew up in a western town on an Indian reservation, population 2500. Surrounding nature was breathtaking; the local folks were pretty narrow minded and racist. Gossip can really destroy a person in a small town, since you run into the same folks who are talking behind your back every day. People's pettiness can come to the foreground more rapidly and you are judged not just for your own actions, but the actions of your relatives as well. Activities to pass the time are fewer and less varied; people can resort to drink to pass the time, so alcoholism goes up.

As far as finding work goes, rural America has been hit by economic downturn longer and harder than cities. Many rural spots never enjoyed the economic upturn of the 1990s. In the eighties, my great uncle complained that he hadn't seen it as dry since the dustbowl days--the water table has continued to drop since then and rivers dried up to creeks with encroaching climate change.
If Peggy Noonan wants to go back to 1970- I'm all for it. Just make sure you change the tax rate to the 1970 tax rate too. The top marginal rate was >70% back then. How do you like that now, Peggy Noonan?
By the way, Saturn, an alternate point of view from the New York model would be the Arcosanti model. This long-running, underfunded project has made very little concrete progress toward its goal, though I still enjoy it as a day trip out of Phoenix sometimes when I'm passing through. There's something interesting about the concepts behind it that just makes one wish for its success.
Noonan has gotten older, but no wiser. She was as responsible as anyone for the fantasies Ronald Reagan fed the people. Neither she nor Reagan ever figured out Ozzie and Harriet was a TV show, not a chapter in American history. As head of America's foremost dysfunctional family, Reagan certainly should have known better.

Apparently, Noonan is still fantasizing about that shining city on a hill in that "kinder, gentler nation". Even if by some miracle she does, it won't be the same once she moves there -- and she won't remain there long. You can take the girl out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the girl.

Having moved from the madness of Orlando to a tiny town in the TN mountains that doesn't have a traffic light, I can tell you, this is not for everybody. I can also tell you that urban dwellers bring all their problems and attitudes with them when they move to such a place.
1970 is an interesting year for her to choose since it was within the Sixties (which ran until 1973), a time that was decidedly not good for conservatives. The rural myth is central, as others and you point out, to the right.
Two words. Crystal. Meth.

I came from 10 years of hell in rural America, and it' s not OZ, anymore.
She's the female David Brooks, always projecting their idea of their own values (born of their elite SES) on to just regular folks. Brooks just makes things up. Apparently, so does Peggy.

I think they both learned from "Dean" Broder.
It bothers me, too, when journalists declare a trend based on isolated examples.

A few months ago, I thought (hoped!) that people had changed their vehicle buying habits. Then the price of gas went back down, and Toyota is massively overstocked with Priuses. Sigh.
Interesting analysis on Noonans article. Thanks for this. We live in our home in Honolulu but also own 6 1/2 acres of riverfront property in Colorado and are forever trying to decide: do we stay here? or move there? with the thought in mind if we move there, we might regret it. So we wait for some defining factor to make the decision for us. Rated.
Loved this piece. And I’ll second BBE’s callout of your funny footnote. Hah!
Anyone surprised by this tripe hasn't been paying attention. She and so many 'journalists' turn out over seasoned crap now. It's as if they have lost the ability to honestly see the 'real world'. Especially now that Bush and his loyalty pledge crew are gone.

They, the Noonan's, got so adept at taking fast food crap (from the White House) and adding their own seasoning to it and selling it as factual and important 'real news'... I wouldn't mind going back to the 70's. At least the lying and 'fair and balanced' news wasn't filled with so much bullshit and theatrics back then. People, journalists, prided themselves for having the balls to see through the bullshit sheen of politics. Well, at least what I remember of it.

Journalistic integrity cost one president his career and cost the republican party a number of sacrificial lambs that were thrown out to slaughter. One can only imagine the meetings to determine who to throw to the wolves and how to contain the damage. Anyone that thought that the bottom had been reached in the Watergate Scandal would be sadly mistaken BUT the GOP lost a lot of people and a major scandal was revealed. Now? With so many loyal water carriers for the royalty of the Bush administration, the 'journalists' effectively ignored a scandal that would have made Watergate look like a squirt gun fight.

I am amazed that she still has a job. I'm amazed that the people haven't taken torches and pitchforks in hand and stormed the major news outlets (and their corporate masters) and demanded the truth. But that is the mark of the time of dis-infotainment that we live in. News now must be profitable. When has it been profitable to tell the truth?

In the time of teabaggers lining up to defend ultra-rich tax cuts, we have the media that THEY want, rather than the one that WE want...

Good article... Good comments...
On the other side, it is amazing how 'rich' we have it. We have an 80-foot aisle full of different kinds of potato chips. We have acres of beer and billions of different choices for so much that we didn't have in the 70's.

We also have so many different things that in the 70's people would consider 'luxuries' and now many consider 'necessities'.

And yet we are a society more connected than any other in the history of humans and yet we are more isolated and alone than ever before.

Ironic...
Just click those heals together on the magic slippers and you too can land anywhere. Most are not prepared for that type of existence let alone do it. Rush and Ann need to lose their way on a float trip somewhere, deliverance anyone.
Noonan's fairy tale ideals are as substantive as her "a thousand points of light" catch phrase. All born from the same conservative Never Never Land.
I am for the death of thinking that geography can be separated from consciousness. It used to be about finding water--populations always lived near sources of water, but now that we have "technology" to pump water from sources and create water systems, we are moving out all over the place--I have a feeling when the catastrophic global changes assert themselves (soon) things will move back again to small tribal units located near water sources.
Peggy Noonan Is An Idiot. Is and always has been.

Any further analysis is a waste of words, energy, time, electrons, bandwidth, etc. She is worth only ignoring.
Wow so the stick up peggy's ass turns out to be a cornstalk? Interesting. I'll be looking forward to her comin out here to these here parts and bleeding a hog and gelding a bull or two. She can help me pick slugs off the cabbages and put by some pickled beets in the sweltering heat of august. I'll get her a smackdown t-shirt and she can wear that and a pair of pajama bottoms out to the walmart to do er shopping. Lead the way peg. You ol country girl you.
I questioned that small sized farm in Michigan, too. It is very hard for any farmer to make a living, and I wondered if this story is even real, or realistic.
Great dissection of the classic idiocy of "I talked to one person and smelled a trend; talked to a second and confirmed it's true." And Noonan's not the only one who falls into this (left wingers do it, too) but her view does seem particularly clueless, and I can only wonder when was the last time she left the city to even seen other parts of the country....
Noonan's always been dull and out of touch. Perhaps the seventies were her 'glory days' -- back when she looked good dressed in paisley polyester with badly permed hair. I for one don't want to go back to a time when disco had yet to be the 'in' thing to do.
Rule of thumb: the clock is ALWAYS turned back to a time that never existed.
I'm catching up -- thanks everyone for the agreement on the ridiculousness of time-travel back to the "golden days" of never, and the group rejection of the notion that small town living is somehow a "cure" to what ails folks in the city.

Specular, yeah, I should've found a way to work the long-haul part in, as it really destroys her idea of city-flight.

Kent, I admit I've never heard about Arcosanti, so I'll have to read up. There are a lot of people (not Peggy Noonan) in active discussions about how to improve urban living -- Matt Yglesias often brings it up on his ThinkProgress blog.

Gonzoid, I agree there's certainly a problem with the continued promotion through the mainstream ranks of opinion writers like Noonan, though I hope she's not anywhere counted on to be a real reporter.
Saturn

Good post ... I delight anyone, including myself, ripping on Ronald Reagan's No. 1 Groupie ...

I have a piece-in-progress on this, but I can tell you, this is a reoccuring theme of Lil' Peggy ...

Check out

Friday, August 15, 2008
For Peggy Noonan, Next Stop, Willoughby!
http://puregarlic.blogspot.com/2008/08/for-peggy-noonan-next-stop-willoughby.html

Peace
JTD
I find this criticism to be overly simplistic. Is there any basis in having actually lived in both rural and urban settings? From what is the rebuttal of Noonan's OPINION based on anything but OPINION?

Facts exist to bolster that can cut both ways on this thing. To Wit:

1) Cities cost more to live in than rural areas. House prices alone bear this out. City dwellers need to earn more to live on. Internet-based telecommuting obviates the need to do this. Point to Noonan.

2) When we had the energy scare, I was opining that there would be a huge hit to suburban and rural housing prices as commuting expenses from the remote locations made the more densely packed locations more attractive in comparison. I am still not unconvinced (double negative) that this oil-price-based disruption did not contribute to a bursting real estate bubble. Point, while it lasted, to Saturn.

3) Recent stats show americans saving more and spending less. Bailing out of cities and expensive home prices and other attendent costs of living would jibe with this economizing measure. Point to Noonan.

There's plenty more and this is but a comment rather than a blog post.

Shifts are most assuredly taking place. In the fall of 2001 in the Berkshires, house prices skyrocketed. High flyers in New York simply said, "life's too short," and took off on the New York State Thruway, dropping anchor in spots scattered throughout rural Massachusetts, New York and Vermont.

I know this more anecdotally from my mother-in-law's travel in that area where she stopped at what she thought was a farm stand. A woman politely came out to great the gray panther and said, "If you are stopping to see if it is for sale, it is not." They then entered into a conversation about how many folks had stopped to ask, how much prices had increased, and on and on and on.

New York City's undergoing a similar meltdown today. To hear Noonan opine about this does not surprise me in the slightest and it makes perfect sense to me.

We are well served when we read the authoer of an op-ed to sometimes read those from folks we like to villify, because they have not risen to their position of editorial prominence by going off half cocked.

It's opinion. It's opinion with reasonable factual and anecdotal evidence to be thought provoking as opposed to easily dismissed.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go read Paul Krugman with an open mind.
Thanks, JTD. I'll check it out.

Sao, I think you're right -- small towns would take offense. And since they do get the WSJ delivered, I bet they already have.

Eh, GWool, I think we could in circles on this forever, since there are yet no significant economic statistics to prove either side (though since mine is closer to the status quo side, I have probably less to prove). Instead of getting into a circular citation fight, I'll just say -- I am absolutely willing to admit all of the anecdotal evidence that you and Ms. Noonan have offered as true. I'm just not convinced that it reflects a trend.

I appreciate the criticism you're offering -- that countering one person's opinion with another's is always going to raise serious she-said/she-said issues. And I appreciate the willingness to read with an open mind -- but I can't figure out if you're saying that this is not something I do, because of the above criticism, or if it's just an overall suggestion. Though I am familiar with Noonan's work and tend to disagree with her more often than not, I hope I still approach each of her columns with an open mind to agreement; if the above reads to you as anything more than a criticism of her current statements and methods, that certainly was not my intent.
Peggy Noonan drives me nuts.
Peggy Noonan is delirious with envy and hate, now that Obama won. She is making shit up. Peggy Noonan is most hateful and ignorant. When I listen to her, I always imagine a snake swallowing his tail.
God, I hate that fucking bitch.
You know, for someone who writes for the Wall Street Journal, Noonan is showing a complete and total lack of a clue on economics.

She thinks people will move out to the sticks?

Bullcrap.

People will continue to flock to the cities because THAT'S WHERE THE JOBS ARE!

If Noonan can't get that, she should be fired.

Idiocracy was on Comedy Central today. People like Noonan make me fear that movie is a documentary and we just don't know it yet!
There once was a time when you could drive West and go through wide expanse of open territory. You kept a water bottle behind the driver's seat just in case. That was a recent as the 1980's. Now one can drive coast to coast on an interstate and see a Best Buy at almost every exit. The South West is carpeted with lawns, subdivisions, and irrigation. If there is a major metropolitan exodus, they will find "The Truman Show" rather than the country that existed in 1970.
Just to add to your sample size - one of my co-workers, who owns/lives on an asparagus farm in rural Michigan and whose husband is a truck driver, owns nine televisions (one for every room) and six cell phones (they all get better reception in different places). Reasonable consumption in small town America?
I missed Peggy's column, but I will say this: Life seems much easier in the small city where I live than in the mega-city. It gives you time. However, the options are limited. You end up watching TV shows about people in New York City.
I would love to see Sean or Bill or Rush settle here in Elkhorn, Nebraska.

These guys have no idea how I (or we for that matter) live.

They don't speak for small town America. They repeat talking points that, for some reason, a lot of small town Americans feel obligated to believe in.
The rural way of life is great, but made possible by subsidies from the urban areas. Here in Oregon there is a tremendous amount of money that is taken from the larger cities and transferred to rural Oregon. This includes money for education, road construction and maintenance, welfare and Medicaid, and so on.
Peggy Noonan, never in doubt, but often wrong.
Funny. I have a distinct feeling that if you could go back to 1970 and ask the young Peggy Noonan what the nation should do, her answer would have been to go back to simpler times. Some unspecified, previous simpler time, but without all the flaws of that particular era. Back to Disneyland, essentially.
My sister went to college with Peggy Noonan - PN was the token conservative of the group. I suspect she's missing her youth. If she hasn't looked around recently, farmland has been getting eaten up at a rediculous rate for year to accomodate all of those city-folk who want to move to the country - then complain about the smell of manure.
Peggy Noon is channeling A Prairie Home Companion and Norman Rockwell - as a writer, her metaphors and comparisons, her observations and descriptions, are stained an insipid sepia. Her writing is like mediocre yellow cake with a really thick layer of fancied up frosting.

Steve A. is right, life can be a little less rushed -mostly attributable to fewer options. But people in small towns are as big of consumers and as aware of status, affluence, etc. as anyone else. People had the same tendency to be venal, racist, classist and "what's in it for me" too. Noonan idealizes a time that existed on television, circa Father Knows Best and My Three Sons. In her world, the men are all like Andy Griffith, or Archie Bunker (Noonan sees no difference between these men, by the way).
In a country where the number of obese Americans now surpasses the number of overweight Americans, one in five four-year-olds is obese and one of every three children born since 2000 is predicted to develop Type II diabetes, how much "thicker and softer" can we afford to get? And why would this be indicative of simpler, "better" times?
In a country in which the number of obese Americans now surpasses the number of overweight Americans, in which one in five four-year-olds is obese, and one of every three children born since 2000 is predicted to develop Type II diabetes, how much "thicker and softer" can our bodies get? And why would this be desirable or indicative of a simpler, more ideal world?
In a country in which the number of obese Americans now surpasses the number of overweight Americans, in which one in five four-year-olds is obese, and one of every three children born since 2000 is predicted to develop Type II diabetes, how much "thicker and softer" can our bodies get? And why would this be desirable or indicative of a simpler, more ideal world?
In a country in which the number of obese Americans now surpasses the number of overweight Americans, in which one in five four-year-olds is obese, and one of every three children born since 2000 is predicted to develop Type II diabetes, how much "thicker and softer" can our bodies get? And why would this be desirable or indicative of a simpler, more ideal world?
Eh, sorry about the four comments posted in a row. Will delete the extras as soon as they show up in my "manage comments" section.