Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
MAY 18, 2009 6:00PM

What Exactly Is Donald Trump Worth?

Rate: 19 Flag

Donald Trump -- Wall Street Journal ImageIt's so rare that the Wall Street Journal actually makes me laugh that I have no choice but to share this:

Yes, it's The Donald.  Done by the WSJ.  Best pencil sketch ever?  I think so.

It accompanies a story that's getting some play this morning.  Apparently, Trump is suing a guy who wrote a book that says Trump's personal fortune is valued at "only" $150-$250 million.  Trump himself has claimed he's worth somewhere in the billions.  He's suing the publisher for damages, saying that he lost out on business deals and suffered reputational harm from the claim.

So today, depositions that Trump gave in the case have been released, where under oath Trump had to testify about how, exactly, he believes he's worth billions when things like math show he's probably not.  It turns out it's because he sees "worth" and "ownership" to be mostly mental labels that he can use however he'd like.  So his 30 percent stake in building project is actually closer to 50 percent in his mind, because he's being paid to manage the site, for instance.  This also works really nicely with figuring out profits:

In the deposition, Mr. Trump is asked about the Bedminster, N.J. golf course, which financial statements showed had a net loss of $4.6 million in 2005. Has he ever done a financial analysis of his investment there?

"Yes, I've done mental projections," he said, figuring he'd eventually make $120 million. He never put them down on paper. "You don't really have to," he said.
Mr. Ceresney, asks: "Have you discounted in your mind for the risk that you won't sell [memberships] at the prices you are anticipating?"

"I think I will, but it's possible I won't. But I think I will," Mr. Trump said.

Ah, the power of positive thinking. If it's good enough for Donald Trump, it's good enough for the whole financial system, right?  Well, so far, yes.  CEOs of major companies and banks are still getting paid enormous amounts to do their jobs -- and despite changing rules, shareholders have so far protested fewer pay packages this year than last.

I meant to talk about this last week, but the Obama administration is actually working on finding a way to overhaul executive compensation at financial institutions.  As Andrew Leonard at Salon points out, just the mention of an effort has many people up in arms, picturing Tim Geithner and team blacking out the zeros on certain executives' pay, but the actual implementation is likely to be much more complex and nuanced.  The WSJ:

Among ideas being discussed are Fed rules that would curb banks' ability to pay employees in a way that would threaten the "safety and soundness" of the bank -- such as paying loan officers for the volume of business they do, not the quality. The administration is also discussing issuing "best practices" to guide firms in structuring pay.

At the same time, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy

Tightening the existing rules -- and there are existing rules -- is a great first step.  But there's a culture of executive pay that must also be treated, and it's exactly what Donald Trump represents.  Most of the people getting umpteen-million in bonus pay every year deeply believe that they deserve it.  They're told they deserve it in many ways: by the fact that their colleagues make that, by the amount of profit they're able to generate for their investors, even just by the legends of business greats like Trump himself that float throughout our culture.

I'm not sure how to treat that ill, except perhaps through more frank discussions of money in our society.  If more people were asked to account for how, exactly, they decide what they're worth each year -- if CEO's and CFO's and SOB's were deposed like Trump was before their investors and shareholders, asked to account for what it is, exactly, that makes them worth $19 million or $30 million or even $1 million to the company, we might more quickly see cuts in pay -- either through shareholder votes, or even, perhaps, through some kind of shame-induced realization.

But what, exactly, would shame Donald Trump?  If there's nothing, then will all changes have to come by force of law?

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The Donald feeds on ego. His deluded worth is his Viagra.
If that's true, I'm not sure there's anything anyone could do to reduce his incentive to exaggerate or to pursue higher income!
This is no surprise. The Donald exists because of the delusions of the last twenty five to thirty years that paper money can make one wealthy.
This all traces back to Enron and the whole concept of mark-to-market accounting. Enron failed, but its practices live on. Amazing. Good to see "The Donald" keeping alive the concept of "black box" profits and valuations.

Oh, and you left out a tag: is comb over one word or two?
Trump is an asshole. He got bailed out by his dad - twice, if memory serves - and built the most god awful nouveau-riche tower ever. He has no talent as an exec and no taste as a builder.
If shame is on a continuum and some are on one end feeling it all the time and others are on the opposite then it should be no surprise that there are the financial equivalent of serial killers for whom all changes will only come by law. The question is if you intend to do the right thing anyway what is the imposition of living under a reasonable law? Since I don't intend to kill anyone it doesn't bother me to live with that no murdering rule. (usually)
When asked to behave in a manner that doesn't force retirees back to the job hunt in their 70's if your answer is that it isn't fair that your ability to make money is being limited you should be forced to walk from the stock exchange to trinity church while being pelted with used adult diapers and made to make your absolution to the gathering unemployed.
I feel for "The Donald"...I completely understand how his creative accounting works. The real differrence is his mental net worth and the real world of accounting is the FMV (Fair Market Value) and real time "Goodwill" of his HAIR! Nothing else really matters.
Rated & Cheers!
An interesting walk through a very thorny garden of issues.
Saturn, I really like you but I'm afraid that no matter how hard I try I can't summon the interest in The Donald's wealth. Really, he's the definition of a narcissist, and how can we in good conscience give this guy any more attention than he already has?

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Saturn: I read the story and couldn't believe the Journal, which is trying to be a livelier paper, didn't write a more amusing and skeptical story. Talk about happy horseshit. "I'm worth whatever I say I'm worth." For my money, that worth can only be measured in pennies. But the irony, as you note, is that Trump is suing the poor bastard who wrote the book for damages resulting from the book's failure to read -- and accept as fact -- the fantasies residing in Trump's brain. Therein lies the only truth Trump recognizes. The shame of it is he's still rich enough to sue the author and his publisher for non-compliance with his fantasies. Talk about thought crime!
Well, the fix was in on that celebrity apprentice, is all I can say. The Donald is worth less to me than he ever was. Worth less. That's it!
Trump is a bit too much the straw man for my tastes, Saturn. He's been the clown of CEOs for so long, it's hard to take him seriously as representing anything. Somebody like Carly Fiorina is a more interesting example. In retrospect, she was dreadful CEO, but she was also a risk-taker at a company that had become too safe for it's own good. How do you compensate somebody like that? And what of the magnificent successes, people like Steve Jobs?

I welcome rules to deal with executive pay and trying to come up with metrics to return some sense to pay (perhaps capping pay at the average employee salary, although I could see work-arounds and pitfalls to that approach). But this is another very difficult task the administration is taking on.
the loss of his hair? oh wait ... he's in denial about that, too

I laughed heartily at the math comment. Thanks.
Specular, Fiorina is a fascinating example, you're right. (Also: better hair). There's got to be a way to balance the middle ground of CEOs so that outliers like Jobs would be appropriately rewarded (perhaps through shareholder votes) while those who don't perform or only perform in an average way wouldn't get huge bonuses despite.
"I think, therefore I *am* rich". I'm going to try this one on today and see how it works.I'm surprised The Donald hasn't started an "organized religion". Maybe he aspires to their level of thievery.
If alternative energy is the next big thing then Trump is worth trillions because his BS has the potential of producing the largest reserve of methane gas in the world.

Why do people even listen to him? He reminds me of the side show barker directing everyone's attention to the next big attraction when in really its just flimsy cardboard covered in cheap paint and twinkle lights.
"I've done mental projections" Hahahaha- what an ass clown! At least Bernie Madoff followed the formality of hiring a sham accountant to do his math. The Donald didn't even need to do that! The judge was way too easy on this joker.
Donald Trump has invented an organized religion. It's embodied in the Apprentice shows.
It's called Sociopathic Personality Disorder. These people not only can't turn the guilt, shame or remorse switch to the "on" position, they have no such switch to begin with!

They are so used to defining reality to suit themselves that they are shocked and confused as heck when confronted with the truth. Worse, they surround themselves with people whom they bully and intimidate into reinforcing their increasingly expanded and bizarre world of lies.

The fact that he stubbornly wears that bizarre hairdo, despite constant ridicule, offers of help, and the mirror indicates the depth of his problem.
If I had to guess, I'd say that he's worth tuppence-ha'penny.
"What Exactly Is Donald Trump Worth?"

On what scale? Are we measuring in dollars or bullshit?
Trump is worth exactly nothing. He is in debt past his eyeballs. He literally owns nothing but that hideous toupee. I have my doubts about that too. Can anyone name a profitable Trump venture? Even the Apprentice is owned by NBC.
This is a megalomaniac who has gone bankrupt more than once, and thinks nothing of firing long-term employees on a moment's notice, even on Christmas Eve. Such a prince among men.

What's the saying? If you owe a million dollars, the bank can't wait to lend you more money. If you owe a $1,000, you're shit out of luck.
The first time Trump went bankrupt they said he owed to much and could cause serious problems with a couple of banks. He was the first "to big to fail". I recalled he needed millions to maintain his life style at that time and with the threat of bankruptcy a real possibility that he could do so they bailed him out.

He is still in debt up to his toupee but manages to sell himself as a successful CEO when in reality he is a disaster as a businessman. With some much money to play with he should have been pushing Bill Gates as the richest man in America if he were anywhere near as good as he has deluded himself to believe he is.
I, REPUBLICAN Defendeth the High Priest Donaldo

While Donaldo Weareth the Imperial Rugeth, insideth is hidden the Knowledge of Kings given by the LORD.

St. Donaldo (someday, we pray) will indeedeth recovereth his silver with, by the GRACE of our LORD, a blessed new show from the Bards at NBC.

I, REPUBLICAN Sayeth ... so it must be 21% true
Well, all of Wall Street thinks like Donald, if they did not, there would not be a Wall Street.

These idiots feed on each other and make the rest of us schmucks believe them and give them out money and they steal it all