OK, everyone. I'm going to collect my thoughts and come up with something more, ah, cogent to say, less piecemeal. I have enjoyed greatly the company, the comments, most of the controversy, and I'll be checking in as the night goes on, too.
Hooray! You know, I'm feeling happier after this than I thought I would.
6:15: I'm trying to catch up with comments; going to check the headlines on the big news sites and see what's being said. What are you guys watching? Anyone have a thrilling take away so far?
Both WaPo and NYT going with "Obama promises to deliver on health care." Wall Street Journal offers this subhead: "Health Overhaul Cost Cut to $900 Billion; Obama Warns GOP, Offers Malpractice Deal"
6:10: I have to say, apparently the Republicans are at a significant audio/visual disadvantage tonight, as Boustany's voice was tinny and difficult to understand at some times, and he sounded, well, pretty nervous. Did he lose a bet?
This is, uh, a terrible speech. Really. Shorter Boustany: We can fix health care without doing evil.
Great! We're all agreed.
6:08: 1). All individuals should have access to coverage.
2). Individuals should be able to join together to get coverage.
3). We can provide assistance to those who can't afford a doctor.
4). More wellness care/prevention.
Hey, I have some good news for you, Boustany -- you're on board with the president here. Time to leave your echo chamber and go home.
6:07: "Replacing your family's health care with government-run health care" would be bad. Uh -- did you listen to the speech before this?
No rest for the weary: Response from Boustany.
"I'm a heart surgeon with more than 20 years of experience... we agree much needs to be done to lower the cost of health care for all Americans."
"Afford is an important word." Now we know his frame, too.
So there we have it. Half lecture, half town hall, with a nice splash of good, old-fashioned preaching at the end, replete with an amen from the crowd.
6:02 "I still believe we can replace acrimony with civility... Here and now we will meet history's test."
The danger of too much government is matched by the perils of too little. Yup. "When facts and reason are thrown overboard and timidity" takes over, when we can no longer have a reasonable discussion -- a nice description of the last few months.
5:59: If Joe Biden cries, everyone in the nation must take a drink.
5:57: I do not like that he said Chuck Grassley's name out loud.
Hello, Kennedy boys.
"The character of our country." I adore the reference to historical battles, anger past and present.
Also, please, is Orrin Hatch next to Olympia Snowe as the "sit down" enforcer? If so, will he write a song about it?
5:52: "If you misrepresent what's in this plan, we will call you out."
PLEASE, GOD. Mean that. I'd like to see the White House get a spine, and maybe a blimp with a big neon sign.
"I will continue to seek common ground in the coming weeks... my door is always open. But know this: I will not waste time with those who have decided it's better to play politics with this plan than to improve it." Was that a Republican raising his hand to admit that's what he's up to?
I think that the arguments about cutting waste and practicing better medicine are valid but also very, very difficult to make -- it's very much a, "so if it's that easy, why haven't we done it before?" kind of argument. No one talks exactly about what's stopping companies from doing this right now, which is the hardest part.
I don't think this argument is well made yet, I really don't. And until it is, the "this pays for itself" argument doesn't seem sound.
5:48: Ah ha, there it is. Nice reminder that those who scare about Medicare have often voted to kill it.
Speaking to Seniors. In this section, more than any other, there needs to be a deeply reassuring tone, and I'm not sure he's hit it completely. "Not a dollar of the Medicare trustfund will be used to pay for this plan." The only thing this plan would eliminate is waste, fraud, and insurance company subsidies.
HA!! Nice reminder -- walked in the door to find this ugly, Republican debt.
HEY ERIC CANTOR! Knock off your TEXT MESSAGING during the PRESIDENTIAL ADDRESS.
5:45: I like the framing of this debate as "providing a choice."
"No bureaucrat gets between you and the health care you need."
The public option is a means to the end of achieving better health care, regulation of insurance.
Uh, what are those guys holding up in the back?
5:40: Public option -- no one would be forced to choose it; only an option for those who don't have it; only 5 percent would sign up.
Like any insurance company, public company would be premium dependent -- oh, nice, that's a great comparison between private and public universities, and one of the best explanations that I've heard.
Why is Feingold looking very unhappy?
"My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there's choice and competition." OK, everyone's standing. "Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75% of the insurance market is controlled by 5 or fewer companies." And just 1 in Alabama. Nice facts. I do so love facts.
"I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business -- I just want to hold them accountable." Yes!
5:35: Also, is that the first time a president has ever used "jacking up" in a speech? I understand it's the automotive metaphor, but -- still.
I'm sorry, did a member of Congress just heckle the President of the United States? *
DUDE. Death Panels HEAD ON. "It is a lie, plain and simple."
Oh, go ahead and sit on your hands, Republicans.
Thanks, Jodi, for posting the link to the White House text of the proposal: Jodi Kasten: The plan has been released by the White House.
See it HERE.
Now we get into the compulsory part -- irresponsible for people not to participate, therefore everyone has to carry basic insurance. I think the auto insurance comparison is apt. Businesses and individuals can get hardship waivers -- uh, and 95 percent will be eligible. So: poor people working for small companies... ?
Part 2: Quality, affordable choices for those without insurance. Companies get to compete for currently uninsured people. Ah, nice, bringing in the fact that everyone in that room, deciding on the plan, is insured in just this way.
The exchange goes live in four years -- that should be a fun campaign.
Immediate coverage to be offered for the next 4 years, until the exchange comes online.
5:30: "No one should go broke because they get sick."
Details. Point 1: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the plan or the doctor you have." GOOD. Repeat it, and then let's all get T-shirts, because SERIOUSLY. No one seems to get this.
Against the law to deny coverage for a pre-existing condition. Hoorah! Against the law to drop coverage or water it down when it's most needed. Double hoorah! Arbitrary caps -- eliminated.
5:27: "Some have dug into unyielding idelogical camps... The time for bickering is over. The time for games is past. Now is the time for action."
I like that, but -- let's see it.
Here's the plan:
1. Security and Stability to those who have insurance
2. Insurance for those who don't.
3. Slow costs for businesses and government.
"The Senate Finance Committee announced today that it will move forward." No specific mention of Baucus... I'm intrigued.
"Build on what works and fix what doesn't." Janet Napolitano, I share your lack of enthusiasm for that vague statement.
Cheers from the left for mentions of the Canadian system. And not just at home.
5:25: Small businesses are forcing their employees to pay more for insurance... because of higher cost of health care. Still talking to the currently insured which, really, is the audience here.
5:20: Americans "willing and able to pay" are denied coverage -- again, a key point in the argument against "hey hippie, get a job," which is often the summary of right wing arguments.
"Those who do have insurance have never had less security than they do today" -- YES. Good point. The 180,000,000 insured Americans very much need this sales job. This is a good time for an anecdote -- ah, yes.
5:19: "not the first president, but determined to be the last" taking up health care, starting with Theodore Roosevelt. Never hurts to mention a GOP favorite.
Hey, John Dingell. That's actually an interesting historical tidbit.
5:17: Kickoff. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Bringing up the economic crisis as a credibility builder? This seems a bit risky -- but I suppose now is the moment to celebrate the Fed saying the recession is over... Oh, focus on John Kerry. What, is he looking for a job?
This sets up a very interesting context for the speech, but not unexpected -- he's been selling health care as part of a national economic solution since the campaign. I do think it's shrewd. I'm just not sure a lot of people buy it.
5:14: Did any parents of congresspeople keep their children home today?
Would love to know what Biden said. "I gotcher back, man," is my vote, though I give a second to, "Easy on the standing ovation lines, huh?"
5:10: "Madam Speaker, the President of the United States." You know, that just doesn't get old. The Madam part in particular.
Aw, John Boehner just looks delighted to be here. Is someone sad to be (potentially) missing the rebroadcast of "Glee"?
Thank you, LPS, for clearing it up: in case of massive, uh, horror, Steven Chu is the next president of the United States. UNLESS Robert Byrd isn't in attendance, which also seems likely. Oh, there's Geithner.
Pretty sure Sebelius is having a heart-to-heart with Olympia Snowe. Is that possible?
I've seen LaHood, Napolitano, and Solis. Is Geithner the missing cabinet member? There's Larry Summers and Christina Romer. Also haven't seen Steven Chu.
Agreed: lpsrocks: ok, because it must be said: Michelle looks Pretty in Pink. | Also, Kathleen Sebelius.
5:03: What a night to be Hillary Clinton. Do you think she feels de ja vu? Also, who's the missing cabinet member, had anyone spotted the missing member yet? I see Clinton, Holder, Gates, Sebelius, Locke...
Those folks next to Michelle Obama? Here's a little list. They include Senator Kennedy's wife and a personal physician friend of the Obamas', along with many people who've had their own terrible health care struggles.
4:59: Final thought: Who to watch. This lady right here, Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine. When she claps, feel a thrill:
She's the one next to Judd Gregg.
4:55: While we're still in run-up time, I'd like to join the chorus in saying that Lawrence O'Donnell deserves his own MSNBC show. I find him much more reasonable -- and easy to listen to -- than nearly any of his counterparts. The O'Donnell/Maddow pairing tonight might be the bifecta of broadcaster perfection. Yes, I'm going to keep using the term bifecta over and over and over.
4:51: OK. I'm ensconced at the house of friends who have both cable and wifi (the... bifecta?), and I've settled in to watch the speech and its coverage on MSNBC. Here's how this works: I will be listening and typic frantic comments and observations as the speech goes on. I'll also try and keep an eye on the comments as they come up and through and will refer to them as we go whenever possible. Respond to me, respond to each other, respond just to the speech -- the idea is, at the end of the night, to have a collection of first-round thoughts that we can all review tomorrow, when we're wondering "how did I feel before the punditry took over?"
I should add -- refresh early, refresh often. F5 will do it on almost any browser.
The New York Times (among others) has posted excerpts of the president's speech. Trying to find advance text on Boustany -- anybody seen it?
UPDATE (3:30 PST): Sarah Palin has posted a pre-buttal to President Obama's speech. On Facebook. Yup. It calls for Medicare vouchers. No more total coverage for you, American seniors! The DNC went ballistic, and rightly so. Woo. Here's the best part from Palin:
One last thing: after President Obama's speech tonight, listen for which pundits use the words "false", "scary", and "risky" in describing the proposals I put forward. That's how you'll be able to tell who the White House counted as "allies" worthy of receiving its talking points.
I'd just like to say that I find Mrs. Palin's comments false, scary, and risky. May I please now have my copy of the White House talking points and my Ally of Obama cape?
* Live blogging starts at, ah, let's call it ten 'til 5.*
* Apparently, the answer to that was yes, and Congressman Wilson of South Carolina was the one who shouted "It's a lie!"

Salon.com
Comments
R
I'll be watching - but I'm busy trying to channel some good vibes to Professor O to keep it simple, keep it on target, and use those tiny words and make sure it is just like the school speech, but with big teeth.
I'm sick to the point of nausea of the outright lies,teabagers, birthers and the rest of the deceitful static that has been thrown up by the "disloyal opposition" with too little response from the Democrats. The Democrats need to speak up for the truth and the change we voted for. If they don't this country is history. Why vote if your vote counts for nothing.
Worse than Jindal, they've asked Rep Charles Bustany of Louisiana. Apparently, he is a surgeon, but I figure he will further embarrass my home state and spout the party line re: costs. He is also a Birther. blegh.
I'm very intrigued by the Boustany choice, LPS. He seems like... well, like he might be a little crazy, but I've read very little so far.
What you need to know is the "public option"... It's not that important anymore. If you thought the White House found it to be crucial to reform in June, now in September they really don't care if it is in the legislation or not.
Lack of a "public option" will not be a dealbreaker.
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/09/advance-copy-excerpts-of-obama-speech-on-healthcare/
http://apps.facebook.com/whitehouselive/
Yes, Ms. Palin, you are a dangerous, scary, and lying megalomaniac.
Some of their recent posts are:
Twenty-six lies about HR 3200
RNC's Bill of Rights for Seniors
Debunking the DNC's claim that Republicans voted to abolish Medicare...
This site has been my savior....
denese
I'm more than ever thankful though that Sarah Palin is no longer an elected official in this country. Especially that she's not the VP.
Mr. President, please, please please.... KICK BUTT, TONIGHT!
Be the tough Bad Ass President I voted for!
The Conference Committee for both houses will meet, and agree to a bill that has a public option. At this point, the bills sent back to the House and Senate are considered budgetary bills, and are therefore not subject to a fillibuster, but can be passed by a simple majority vote.
Let's hope that this is the way it will go. It wouldn't hurt to call/email/visit your Congo/Sen and tell him/her that this is what you want to happen if the Senate says no, which it probably will.
also Tween: "yo,yo,yo Mr. Obama...you have to come out & talk to us"
attempting to identify curly-haired lady in hot pink blazer/black skirt.
WORD!
BRING BACK THE PUBLIC OPTION!
BULLSHIT lie.
a great point
Remember the Bush playbook - we were winning the war for years & the SURGE worked.
He also needs to walk the fine line between being too corporate-friendly and too progressive/socialist, too.
Problem for everyone.
Almost sounds like a Democrat.
Keeping things as they are is WRONG.
Horrors in other countries?
Like what?
70 million people with no ability to seek care?
Oh wait... that's US.
(hopefully)
See it HERE.
I don't give a CRAP about how everyone can keep making money off of other people's illnesses. I care about how people keep breathing. All people.
1st part. Look forward to seeing this part.
He just gave McCain some credit. Smart move, despite it all.
want to study for years, of investors want to build a hospital for no profit to keep you alive. Are you building a hospital? Why do you think someone else is going to do it for you?
One is too many.
One SINGLE grandmother, mother, father, brother, sister or perfect stranger dying because they couldn't see a doctor or be treated is too many for me.
America is just as able as all the other countries that have universal health care. I believe in my country.
did someone just yell Liar???
I want a doc that knows he will lose my business if I don't like his service.
The repubs look dear in the head lights!!!
I am hoping it was an idiot Staffer or press person. There are more people in the building than just the Senators & Representatives.
OR, Biden is throwing his voice?
OR, the @msnbc camera/mic staff have Tourette's?
Great. (Plus - so many women dressed in red or pink - wanna be seen at home, I guess.)
The public option will NOT be subsidized.
And now he is going to tell me he can celan up medicare waste. Bullshit. Will never happen.
Two of my cousins are doctors in another province- they are very well paid, I can assure you.
Of course every dang one of the proposed bills has language that explicitly says "No illegal immigrants will receive health care coverage from anything in this proposal."
They bills have always said it, and always will.... but try to tell the crazies that.
YAYYYY!
I hope it works. He's making the GOP goats.
I WANT to but insurance, not a damn car or iphone.
You dont getit . I WANT to pay for the best I can get.
Spinning again. In the last 10 minutes medicare has magically be reformed. It is a guaranteed fact. Wasted money found. IT is form the mouth of Obama so it is true. Right.
He will accept what he gets. Fortunately he is not dictator Obama.
I am sorry you are sick. You should not have to worry about shopping for healthcare or paying for it out of pocket during this time. THAT should be the last thing on your mind.
BTW how much did it cost for one of Saddams sons to shoot somebody in the head for no reason. Not much. Bullets a re cheap.
The war has NOTHING to do with this.
Really saying good stuff.
Anger and fear do not provide hope, change or progress.
They breed more anger and fear.
Be brave enough to hope and work for something better.
We all have it in us, we just have to shed our cynicism and do the hard work.
I care about you.
Will you care about me?
lots of good stuff
5:59: If Joe Biden cries, everyone in the nation must take a drink.
And let me repeat...NEVER once did we consider money during that difficult time. NEVER once did we have to deal with an insurance company. NEVER once did we feel that his CHOSEN doctor didn't have his best interests at heart.
I truly hope you have as good an experience as my family did. Namaste
I dont wnat your doc. Nobody knows who has the best. And Obama cant know that there wont be some loss of service. You are equating with everyone being covered with everyone getting exactly what yo uand I have now. I dispute that.
It will average out to be something less than it is now if run by gov.
I believe it will remain great without PO and I am wiling to pax taxes for the poor to those evil insurance companies. That will be better for all in terms of actual quality of service. Great docs who get paid for being great. Im not against helping. I will pya for your insurance before I get put in PO.
Get it. I WILL PAY for you to be serviced by the private market. NOT the gov.
Good luck with your health and Godspeed.
He should have borrowed some of Boehner's bronzing creme.
Thanks Saturn, and all. I'm off to watch Top Chef and get my bearings. I hope this turns out well.
BTW, I suggested to one of my liberal friends here in Austin years ago that people should get to together to for their own insured "group" and negotiate for the same rates as insured people.
His response.
I alos siggesed that a law be passed that a doc or hospital cannot charge an uninsured person any more that they would charge an insured person. That alone would be a HUGE savings.
Example. I get a blood test. Lab fee, $200. Insurd rate, $20.
My copay $5. Now yes I get to pay five cause im sinsured. But wouldn't it be a HUGE savings. for the uninsured to only pay the same 20 the la get anyway instead of the 200.
It that not a reasonable reform. ANd I have 2 doctor friends that saod they would not appose that. They make the same money on 90% of patients.. They wont mind if 10% get to pay the same contracted rate.
Now seriously and respectfully, is that not a reasonable idea. My liberal friend just says NO, hell no. Is not single payer so forget it.
Im not saying it is the whole fix, Im saying its 2 ideas that have merit that could keep it pout of the gov hands.
I thought that too. wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide collar.
Wow! Do they know no shame?
This can change our country radically for the better if we will come together and work for the common good. Gathering to see that not everyone believes we are doomed is the best thing we can do.
What if we had given up because women's suffrage, racial equality, universal primary education, government subsidized loans for college, medicare, medicaid and oh, yeah... every single government program paid for by taxing the public and redistributing money to things that make the country better - was just too HARD?
We can do this.
I'm going to go tuck my children into bed and enjoy some hope.
Much love to everyone.
Joseph Cole, I think you have no understanding at all of what the term "non profit" means. I work for a private, non profit organization, and I can assure you that all of our employees get paid, many quite handsomely.
I began yelling at the tv. When the repubs held up those stupid papers and looked so snarky and ill mannered, smirking like kids at an assembly making fun of the Principal I wanted to reach through the tv and slap them.
You can disagree - you can have different politics, but do not disrespect the person speaking when they have the floor.
Professor O did a fabulous job. Small sentences. Emphasis in all the right places and that shout out to the village idiot, Palin was perfect.
We've done that here, with our major hospitals - negotiated that they charge the going insurance rate for uninsured people. We didn't have to legislate it, but perhaps we should, as any new hospital president could undo it.
He laid it out pretty succinctly and I hope it can be done. He was speaking to the Blue Dogs and a few Repubs who might be open to doing what is needed.
by medicare for a 4 hour triple bypass + 90 days of follow up visits.
I bet you would have guess hat it was a lot more right.
That is not a lot for 4 hours of a highly skilled person that you hope really is highly skilled. And he as to pay lots of overhead out of that. My cousin pays 200K a year in mal practice insurance.
That is true not rhetoric.
BTW I think cops and the other should be paid more. And we shuld pay more to get better cops. Most all are good. Be we all know the stories of the bad one. Well lets pay them a loot more and weed out the punks with an axe to grind.
Well I dont want a doc being unhappy and feeling financially stressed and worried about being sued.
My cousin was sued. He had zero culpability
but still had to be hassled. Why . He was the only doc that signed he name clearly so the patients lawyer named him first before not even knowing who he was. So his insurance go up.
Why cant you all see it that docs that are the best and happy are the doc you want.
That that happen to you in your job?
Other countries can do it. You guys can do it. (And those other countries have happy doctors, too, christ.)
Okay, I'm going away now...
The concept of "non profit" does not determine how much a doctor can be paid. I already addressed that, and one other commenter addressed that.
Let me put if differently. Profit and pay can be de-linked. They are regularly now. There are institutions which pay HUGE salaries but dont necessarily pull a profit. This is not small business microeconomics. This is LARGE business microeconomics. It does not impact what a doctor can be paid. There was a country once called the United States of America that had all doctors as non profit before the Reagan administration. Do you think doctors only started making money since 1981? Dont argue what you dont know Joseph. The proposal is valid.
It just makes me sad. I had hope ... even through august. But the more I've learned the unhappier I've gotten. And this took the cake.
He has the spin pulpit and no one gets to ask a question. He has said so many times that I can keep ,y insurance and he is smart enough o know that a PO could drive my employer to drop me and he wont even admit it. This is just like lying.
Are you not aware that he will fine employers for no covering people. If the "fine" which is really the cost of putting me on PO is less then insurance, my employer will drop me. Cant you see that?
Did you really think it was free?
The problem, for the uninsured and for some of the insured as well, is gaining ACCESSS to these doctors and the care they provide at a price that won't cost them a month's rent. Or worse, their life savings, if they've got something serious.
Doctors are frustrated with our existing system, too. They may want to try experimental new procedures they believe will help their payments, only to have the patient's insurance provider say "nein!" When the insurance companies won't pay for a potentially helpful procedure and the patient can't afford it out of pocket, the doctor's hands are pretty effectively tied.
Nobody should go broke because they get sick. And an insurance company should not be able to fleece them because they are, either.
Speaking of doctors, maybe you should go see yours. Maybe he can get your head out of your butt. Not everyone here is as nice as Jodi.
If it was the latter then he deserved to be called a liar. You know damn well if we went to single payer or some PO illegals will get health care. If he is adamant that we wont then were is the wording in the law to specifically call that out. Lets not be stupid to no know the intentions of Obama, Pelosi and all the other liberals in the gov. You know damn well the intention and what will happen.
Please educate yourself sir. You can start here and when you are done there, please go here.
The econmics of your system do not work. That is simple math. I have been nothing but polite to you. But you have tired me out. You are unwilling to consider that EVERY OTHER DEMOCRATIC MODERN COUNTRY IN THE WORLD treats healthcare as a BASIC human right.
You are obviously happy to continue to live in a Banana Republic. I am glad you like being owned by a bunch of corporate theives. I'll be sure to buy stock.
Enjoy your life sir. I know I will enjoy mine.
Yeah, that brain tumor ad - I've seen it at least twice this evening since the speech.
Hate ads.
Holmes has become the darling of conservatives and the stop-public-health-care movement in the United States. She's testified before Congress, been on Fox TV as well as CNN, and her story is retold on hundreds of right wing blogs. She's now doing a nasty TV ad for Patients United Now, a Republican-led group opposed to Obama's reforms. You can see the ad at www.patientsunitednow.com. The group is spending almost $2 million on it to target politicians in Washington.
For a person living with cancer, the idea that someone's care could be unreasonably delayed is truly scary. It also doesn't reflect the experience I've had or the experiences that have been shared with me by so many other patients. Even CNN interviewed Doug Wright, a more typical patient in Toronto who is receiving very speedy treatment for his cancer.
Still, I found Holmes tale both compelling and troubling. So I decided to check a little further. On the Mayo Clinic's website, Shona Holmes is a success story. But it's somewhat different story than all the headlines might have implied. Holmes' "brain tumour" was actually a Rathke's Cleft Cyst on her pituitary gland. To quote an American source, the John Wayne Cancer Center, "Rathke's Cleft Cysts are not true tumors or neoplasms; instead they are benign cysts."
There's no doubt Holmes had a problem that needed treatment, and she was given appointments with the appropriate specialists in Ontario. She chose not to wait the few months to see them. But it's a far cry from the life-or-death picture portrayed by Holmes on the TV ads or by McConnell in his attacks.
...oh, and now she wants our system to pay for this...
BTW - great job, Saturn and all. Wish I had caught this when the speech was airing.
http://open.salon.com/blog/tony_wang/2009/09/09/pissed_off_at_joe_wilson_heres_what_to_do
Folks, do what I suggest in that blog post and you will get your payback.
absurd and has nothing to do with anything I have said.
This is typical response from liberals like you.
Brilliant.
Why don't you respond to something I have said.
Like the possibility that PO will undercut what private insurance can offer employers, thus leading everyone to be dropped by employers. Explain to me why Obama can promise that.
Of course you don't care because you want the PO for everyone
Why cant you address the fact that covering everyone does not logically imply it has to be done by the gov. I prefer to use tax money to buy private insurance for those that cant afford. That is a point of view. I would rather deal with an insurance company than the gov. It is a valid desire. Of course to you is is just stupidity.
I don't beilive that PI can be self sustaining or that medicare cleanup cann pay for "most" of it as Obama says. Just my feeleing
but what do you care because it it ends up not being sustaining so what , right.
I have a dear woman friend that is a ex military doc. Her dad is a vet and she treated vets herself. She knows what she had to do and how her dad is treated. She is liberal and hates this idea. She has told me the stories. Why do we believe PO for all would be better than we treat our injured vets. Why believe her private practice wont turn back into he days treating the vets.
You don;t want to consider any of these points. You just want what you want. You all seem to confuse the idea of everyone covered with exactly how everyone will be covered. I want everyone covered and I want to be insured that well wont all be equalized to the level of medicare or VA care. Of course htat is better then having nothing. I dont want anyone to have nothing including myself. I want everyone to have much better than medicare and VA and I believe it is possible without gov and unlikely with gov.
I will say it again. I will pay the taxes to cover people in a non gov administered way. I i ask you if you want medicare or for me to buy you a very good coverage policy like I have with IBM, which would you chose?
You believe you are dont someone right by supporting a PO for them. I think you are short changing them. You can give them better. Please tell me where this is wrong.
Please tell me why you are opposed to getting everyone on a good private policy. The ICs can be regulated more. There can be over sight to make sure they don't screw people over. There can be no cancellation rules and pre existing rules.
But why put the gov in charge.
They cant deliver a letter without losing massive amounts of money each month.
Let the gov regulate. I'm OK to stop the greed and abuse and to cover everyone. I don't want to deal with the gov. Apparently you do. So we disagree but to you that makes me totally stupid, ignorant, greedy, closed minded and i'm sure a lot worse in your mind.
Everything is suggested is reasonable. Yet in your mind just useless arguments that does not make everyone assured of a government bet all safety net.
Howa about a rational respectful response to valid points I make.
The American system is currently so complicated, and corporate interests so entrenched (particularly at the level of bribing congress) that a full-scale government-paid set-up probably won't happen, even tho it works so well here in Canada. (Note - we have government PAID, not government OPERATED.)
A PO would only put all the insurance companies out of business if they cannot do a better job. As it is, they are unregulated and can do anything they like. A PO would make them at least toe some lines. O made a good comparison with public colleges offering an alternative that doesn't put fancy expensive colleges out of business.
You bring up the post office - it offers cheap subsidized delivery for people who would like to mail a letter for a few cents rather than the $ courier companies charge, but all the courier companies seem to be thriving.
The vet thing - we do hear bad things, and perhaps you have some personal experience as related. However, read some of the people on OS and their personal accounts of their unmet health needs.
What I and a couple of people have been saying is that there are government-paid health-care systems in other countries that people are happy with. I have been alive through the entirety of our system, from its inception.
You say you're willing to pay more taxes to cover the uninsured - but that's not what we hear from Republicans generally... As I understand it, you already pay for the uninsured, who are looked after, to what extent they are, in a helter-skelter way thru emergency rooms. You pay more, and get poorer coverage, on the average. That means, some people get top-of-the-line and lots of people get denied the basics.
Please note - we in Canada pay slightly less per capita for health care than Americans do.....and this is for universal coverage AND better outcomes.
You are as dismissive of our arguments as we are of yours. That's part of the problem of the noise level that has happened in this thing.
Perhaps you should put your thoughts (not feelings alone) together in a post , edit it, drop the you-liberals references, and see if you (a) convince anyone (there are some neutral people here) or (b) get some responses that let you look at this a bit differently.
P.S. - I hope your job at IBM is secure. You're just one lay-off away from having that very good coverage you mention. (This tying of coverage to employment, and thru insurance companies, is something that looks awful to me - we Canadians can move freely in the job market or across the country w.o. considerations of losing health coverage.)
Perhaps you have valid points, but you didn't make them in a clear way in your rather incoherent comments (all our comments, made hastily, were less than stellar).
What he fails to realize is that lots of employers provide employees with benefits that are far greater than the bare minimum.
His employer, for example, provides tuition reimbursement. No law requires that. There's a 401k match. Again, this is a cost that they bear which no law requires. Some people get pensions, and there is no law requiring companies to pay pensions. Hell, he gets health insurance, and there's no law that says IBM has to provide that.
Wise employers understand that while having a good benefits package costs them money, it is worth it. Having motivated and happy employees means that they take care of the customer and that drives revenues, profits, and stock returns.
You are making a mistake. You believe that good insurance = good medicine. Not so, not in anyway, not even close, never. The two have nothing to do with one another. Best medical care/hospitals in the USA comes from the university medical centers supported by grants paid for by government and your tax dollars. I'll take UCLA over Kaiser every time. Good medicine comes from good education, not good insurance. Insurance, good or bad, does not determine the quality of the medical care you receive. Insurance is for the benefit of the shareholders, not the patients. If you want to know the true role of insurance then I suggest you read what Wendell Potter, a former senior executive at various health insurance companies had to say to Congress:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/potter_testimony.html
The VA? My mom is a vet. She had cancer. She was seen and operated on within 2 weeks of her first visit to the VA. Chemo and 2 types of radiation therapy were started as soon as she recovered from her surgery. She has never, in the last 12 years, paid for a single MRI, CATscan, surgery or procedure. Her medicines cost pennies when mine, the exact same meds, cost dollars more in the USA - usually 300X as much. My mother's VA happens to be the Palo Alto VA. All her doctors are from Stanford. She calls up and says she needs to see a doctor and she sees one within two weeks. Every time. I dream of this kind of service. (I'm not even telling you what she went through in the private sector before she turned to the VA. Suffice it to say if she had done the private route, she'd be dead today. This is a verifiable fact, not an exaggeration.) My mother makes on average $400K/year and she will never, ever, chose a private option over the VA.
Also thanks for not deleting the comments from the anti-health-care-for-alls. we actually don't know anyone in that crowd so have no experience with what kinds of things they say. We all have experience with insurance companies and so we all know the problems with them, which the Repubs have been unwilling to address. We'd rather see the doctors, nurses, hospital workers and lab techs who are helping people and saving lives get the millions of dollars that are now going to the CEOs of the insurance companies (not for saving lives, but for denying benefits).
MILLIONS of $$$ for denying benefits that people have paid premiums for, MILLIONS for cancelling policies on sick people, MILLIONS for refusing to insure those with pre-existing conditions.
The insurance companies provide nothing!! for the money they take but grief and heartache.
Thanks Myriad and JK, we hope we can join civilized countries in taking care of people like you all do.
~rocco and rusty