Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
DECEMBER 21, 2009 12:36PM

Today in STFU: John McCain on Ted Kennedy

Rate: 28 Flag
JohnMcCain

The Health Care votes are dragging onward, and with them comes both awesome tweeting about Tom Harkin's tie (does anyone have a picture?) and the opportunity for every Senator to get his stupidity on. The lack of sleep seems to have hit John McCain particularly hard, as the Senator was heard to say this on "Good Morning America":

STEPHANOPOULOS: Vicki Kennedy is now saying this is exactly the kind of compromise that Ted Kennedy would support, the kind of compromise that you worked with him on the past?

McCAIN: I think Senator Kennedy would appreciate the outcome. I don’t think he would appreciate it on a party line vote. I worked with him on many issues across party lines. There has never been a major reform accomplished in the history of this country that wasn’t bipartisan.

This gets at the heart of every debate we've recently had over the division in the House and Senate. Is it the fault of the majority party when the minority party doesn't join in, or does the minority party share the blame in being unwilling to compromise?

Yet that's not the case here. To complain of this over and over again, when the facts show that the majority party has been willing -- perhaps over-willing -- to compromise seems not only sad, but like a denial of reality.

TedKennedyIt's doubly sad to see John McCain invoking the memory of his friend Ted Kennedy to make this point. Ted Kennedy wanted bipartisan health care reform, sure -- because he wanted to make the other side understand the importance, the urgency, of providing affordable health care to every American. He wasn't looking for compromise just to add some names to the bill; he was looking for a change of heart. He was looking for at least the willingness to compromise or to rationally discuss the problem.

To say that he'd be disappointed at the partisan nature of this bill is no doubt accurate. I doubt, however, that he'd be disappointed that the bill's content could find no Republican support, however; I think he'd be disappointed in the unwillingness of Republicans to find something worth supporting in health care reform.

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So frustrating to hear all of this, isn't it? Thanks for the comment.
I'm researching McCain's claim that we've never had major changes on a party line vote... unless you're already doing that:)
I'm not, Roger, but I'd love to hear your results (or send me a link if you're posting them, and I'll add it here, too). I think it's a false claim no matter what the technical results. A bill that gets only one or two people from "across the aisle" isn't bi-partisan except in appearance. And to say there's never been major change on a party-line vote ignores the (many) times when a major proposal has been voted down on partisan lines.
Saturn, there was a short comment on the Diane Rhem show today hosted by Michel Martin by one of the guests that said that what McCain said is patently untrue. The guest said she looked it up and found that the Republicans have always voted against major legislation that involved social/moral/ethical issues. There have been a few moderates down through the decades that went against their party.

My guess is that the record will show that the Republicans have generally voted lockstep against the interests of the common man.

I think it was Carrie Budoff Brown the Health Care reporter for The Politico made that statement, but I can't remember precisely. The piece is online for listening via RA or WM here: http://wamu.org/programs/dr/
Well said. Given how polarized the two parties are these days I think we're all in for a lot more frustration in the future.
I watched McCain speaking in the Senate last night. As you say, he seemed punch drunk, and utterly divorced from reality. If the best the Republicans can muster in the face of a bill that has been gutted of any real reform is more foot dragging, they've become basically irrelevant.
Good grief! I don't think McCain has any real idea of what Kennedy would have thought and never did. The fact that they worked together politically from time to time doesn't equate to his having developed any understanding at all.

What really creeps me out is Sen. Coburn asking folks to pray that someone doesn't make it, knowing that Sen. Byrd has been quite ill and its difficult to get around DC in all the snow even for the healthiest folks. Creepy, they've just gone to the dark side altogether and it really torques it when they pretend they are oppositional out of some kind of Christian charity. Sure they are.
It is creepy. He said, "What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can’t make the vote tonight. That’s what they ought to pray." The power of negative prayer, hm?
I wonder if McCain remembers that he hasn't done anything towards compromise all year long.
if you had 'citizen initiative,' you'd have single-payer health care. and a lot more besides, maybe even peace and a debt-free economy. but it's so much easier to complain about the politicians...
Considering his pronouncements this year, I don't think McCain's gotten much sleep since Nov., '08.
Yes, of course Mr. McCain, the republicans all leaped on establishing Social Security didn't they.
They are the party of "NO"...and John McCain is the leader of "NO."

This is a step...admittedly a very small step...in the right direction...and I am almost happy that none of the Republicans decided to help in this matter. Now more than ever, they are showing themselves to be obstructionists...valuable (perhaps, at times) as a loyal opposition, but not even close to being leaders.
Two party politics at its worst - again.
I think this is a pretty well-read crowd as far as health care reform goes, Will, but if your question is in earnest, here's a few pieces from today that clarify the bill somewhat:

New York Times, "Democrats Clinch Deal for Deciding Vote on Health Bill."
The New Republic's Johnathan Cohn, "Don't Kill the Bill," which has a handy graph.
Actual text of the bill.
When the GOP was the majority, and major legislation was passed, it was almost always passed with Democratic support. That goes for the Patriot Act, telecom immunity, No Child Left Behind, Bush tax cuts, the Iraq war, you name it. When the Dems are in the majority, there is no Republican support, with the possible exception of Snowe and Collins. I think recent history shows the Democratic Party was far more willing to work with Bush than the GOP has been to work with Obama so far.
I had this little fantasy scenario going the other day. I puttered around on it in my head in court... in the car... before falling asleep. I couldn't decide who the "star" should be. Barney Frank? Al Franken? I decided, No, it had to be someone with more gravitas to Both sides, to All sides. I still can't decide who it should be.

But this person will make one of those Frank Capra speeches before the Senate or the House, basically saying Shame on You. And, to be effective, he or she would have to say Shame on Me while you're at it. They would point out the feet of clay, the beholdin' to Big Pharma, maybe throw in a few slag shots at the Banks while they're at it. And they would speak in a voice that all could hear, would hear, and want to listen, want to know.

We're all in this together, no matter what those paranoid whack Repugs believe, distribute, pollute or disseminate. We gotta figure out how to survive. Teddy KNEW this. He had a voice. And he bellowed to the rafters.

God save us.
First mistake was Obama's going directly to the middle ground and urging the Repugnants to compromise. Duh!! Compromise doesn't start at the middle ground, Barack, that's where you're supposed to end up. Now we're going to end up in the worst of all world's: Health Insurance Hell.

Despite Obama's grand but foolish gesture of goodwill, the R's have proven themselves worse than ever as the party of NO -- as in we don't care what you propose, we're against it. This was typified by Jim Demented's crack about making sure healthcare reform was Obama's Waterloo. It may not be Obama's, but it sure as hell will be a disaster for the rest of us. Too bad that disaster won't be visited upon Demented and his ilk.

Whatever happened to the "loyal" opposition?
Ack! Thanks for the link fix, Will. I agree, there's a morass of partisan reporting on this, and it's hard to know where to turn.

Jane, I do think this represents reform, though not the bold reform I would've hoped for.

Tom, Procopius -- Party of No, indeed. I think you've got a great point about who's been willing to compromise (for better or worse), Procopius.
It is really time to end the 60 vote rule--I understand that it is arbitrary. The republicans have shown that they will vote NO on everything for the next four years. Holding their breath. Kicking their feet.
McCain has become churlish lately. He knows they lost on this one. Rated.
I don't care what McCain thinks about Ted Kennedy. Nor do I care if Ted would have liked this current bill. I also do not care one bit about bi-partisanship.

All I care about is stopping this unconstitutional Marxist socialist agenda.

The Republican has become the party of No because the majority party keeps asking: socialism?
John McCain the biggest fraud, myth and fake of the last thirty years.
And let's all applaud the cumstain for Sarah Palin....
I'm everlastingly sick of the hypocrisy of the Reps doing everything possible to derail anything this Admin does and then saying the problem is lack of bipartisanship!!! Obama could bring them all breakfast in bed and they'd complain that he was trying to raise their cholesterol....

I hope that this is backfiring on them but I fear it isn't...at least not with their diehard base. hopefully it is at least with those ever-increasing and critical "independents". We won't know till the midterms, though.
Hey, Saturn! Two Eugeneans on the front page in one day. Not bad.
Maybe he'd recognize that today's Republican party is not just opposed to any government action that would help the ordinary citizen ie. those of us who do the work that generates the wealth of this country as of yore but these days the Republican party is controlled by genuine fascists.
Ther is no compromising with fascists as Neville Chamberlain would attest. So open Medicare to all and use the majority to pass it. That is how the ?Republicans? got us into a war in Iraq and almost destroyed the economy of the whole world. GROW A PAIR NOW !!
the most disappointing thing of all is that anyone is willing to call what's going to be passed reform.
What Lonnie just said.

REFORM should be thrown into the toilet. We do not have a viable health care system to fix. We need to start from scratch and the insurance companies should start exploring other markets because making money on health care is over. They are done. OUT.

We REQUIRE and DESERVE no less than cradle to grave comprehensive health care for all citizens of the United States of America. Emergency services will never be denied to anyone, be they citizens or not.

HEALTH CARE will be defined by an emphasis on prevention to promote health and wellness. Proper exercise and nutrition will be a component of all children and promoted to parents and society at large.

REGULAR checkups and maintenance services will be provided, including PROPER DENTAL CARE. All citizens will be have dental cleaning every six months and requisite care as necessary.

MENTAL HEALTH care will be deemed as important as any other health care, and citizens will meet with a professional each year for head check ups unless they require treatment more often.

BIRTH CONTROL and ABORTION SERVICES will be fully covered and paid for.

WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE - yes well I have lots of plans about how this should go, prevention is a big part, but a wholistic approach to each woman's health profile is tantamount. Lets try analyzing the risk of cancers for women with wide open eyes, and if we put all women in the country into the same swimming pool we are going to connect the dots a fuck lot faster.

Lots of other stuff on my list. But that's a start. Seems so obvious that this is the right thing to do. But idiots abound.

Build a HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, don't try to reform one that doesn't really exist.
There was nothing inaccurate or disrespectful in McCain's comment. In a snake pit of political corruption and vote-buying, McCain stands above the fray. His anti-pork record is unmatched.

This post is not worthy of you. Have you thought for a moment of where this country would be had it elected someone with rudimentary qualifications for the job?
All I can say is that the Republicans added foot dragging to their knuckle dragging.
For McCain (or any other Republican) to act as if they didnt have their say is beyond comprehension to any sentient being, but the sentience of their voting constiuency has long been in question, with the caveat that I understand why the uber-rich support them.
Didn't he also do this recently with something Dean said—declaring himself to be in total agreement with Dean, when really he was just misinterpreting him? It's almost like he's lonely and in need of imaginary friends.