Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
JULY 23, 2010 5:28PM

Sometimes, Joe Biden, government IS the answer

Rate: 24 Flag

According to pool reports, Joe Biden told a fundraising party in North Carolina last night that "the heavy lifting is over" in terms of getting new bills passed this year. He also added this interesting nugget to his speech:

"We stabilized the financial system,” Biden said. We were on the brink of a depression ... We avoided a total economic meltdown," he said. “There are 3 million [more] Americans working today than there were before we took office.
“Barack and I are realists," the vice president added. "Government is not the answer. But we also know we can plant seeds. These seeds that have been planted have generated whole new industries.”

Emphasis mine. That last paragraph might as well stand in for all the strategy of the Obama administration -- perhaps the strategy of all recent Democratic administrations -- as the Grand Statement of Pandering. Over and over and over again, Democratic politicians pander to the people that the right have fooled into believing that simply by existing, government is evil.

Never mind that it is, and largely remains, a representative government in which more people have a chance to have a vote than ever in our history. Never mind that many of the problems that face a nation are simply too big for a single, non-government entity to solve. Never mind that without government, the only thing that's certain is chaos. No, we must constantly hear Democrats -- who are supposed to be on the pro-government side of the aisle -- kowtowing to the idea that any time the government offers assistance, it's interfering.

I understand well the politics behind this maneuver, but I fail to see why we continue to pander to this mindset instead of working to change it. When the government provides unemployment funding for workers who've been without a job for six months, and that money allows them to go to the local grocery store to buy food for their kids, which in turn allows the local grocery to keep people employed so that they can feed their kids, why doesn't that do anything to cure the idea that the worst statement in the world is, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"?

It's because the best actions of government are often the most invisible, and the worst actions are the most frequently trumpeted. It's always easier to complain about the pot hole in the road than it is to say, daily, thank you, government, for giving us roads at all. So: Thank you, tax dollars, for making it possible for me to drive to and from work without worrying about washed-out dirt tracks. Thanks for the streetlights being on when I come home at night. Thanks for the public education that makes me able to read the stop signs you've put up. Thanks for the courts that will handle any traffic tickets given out by the police you employ. All of that, by the way, makes it possible for businesses -- yes, those sacred small businesses -- to flourish in my community.

Government is an answer to a very basic question: how can we live together and thrive? By having rules, and regulations, and certain public spaces that receive care. It's not the solution to everything -- Joe Biden isn't going to take the trash out at my house tonight or decide what we're having for dinner or where my (far future) kids should go to college or even what they should think about the constitution -- but it is the solution to many, many, many, many things. It is the organizing engine of modern society.

I'm tired of hearing it so sharply and constantly maligned. It's not perfect; it's not meant to be. But it's not the biggest problem we as a nation face by far, and it's ridiculous that anyone would think it's realistic to paint it that way. In a time when millions are crying out for help, it seems irresponsible to continue to insist that the most government can do is plant a seed. Government can also tend the tree and nurture its growth, and it should. It's what we, the people, formed it for.

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Excellent essay, Saturn. This deserves wider viewing.
Thanks, Kathy!

L&P -- there's a pattern of when I like Joe Biden and when I don't. When he's being blunt, I like him; when he's carefully toeing the party line, he really does come off as airheaded, as you've nailed.
We can, I think, be grateful he didn't end up in the #1 spot on that team, however. And that he's not Secretary of State. Veep is a perfect fit.
Preach it, sister!!

I'm absolutely fed up with this line of thought from what suffices for a left wing in America. This is the opposition to the free market privateers that hold sway over the other side? Gimme a break.

With every year, I believe more strongly the forces of the American right have as their wish the destruction of civilization altogether. They have to because anyone can see that would be the end result of their ultimate philosophies. You don't need a crystal ball to see it; just look at Somalia.

I saw a hilarious document on Hillbilly Report, a Socialist-Free Pledge intended for Tea Party proponents, that effectively details what you say here.

Strangely enough, it scarcely earns any signatures when presented at Tea Party events. Go figure...
"Get up, stand up!"
Riordan is correct. This piece needs exposure.
Kevin, I sense the pattern will continue until conservative politicians realize that they could put themselves out of a job, at which point they may start to see value in government again.

Thanks, Linnnn.
Dugg, Reddited, and posted to my Facebook profile. Great work.
Thanks, Leslie, I appreciate that.
What the T-Baggers want and Joe does not understand is fudalism with a bunch of Surfs working for $3.15 an hour and not complaining. Those stickers that say the Goverment can't do anything right are usually collecting Social Security.

A country that contains a population of 350 million plus need a strong central government that can at least keep US flowing in the same direction.

All these arguments about government is left over from the 1930s. Teaching more history as part of our lousy educational system would clear of lot of trash talk up.
Oh, HELLS to the yeah. You wanna be a patriot? Stick that little $2.99 yellow magnet on your bumper if you insist, but then suck it up, put on your big boy/big girl pants, pay your damned share of the "Homeowners' Association" fees, and be grateful for what you get in return.

Your grandchildren are going to be paying for most of it, so thank them while you're at it.

Rated and Facebooked.

(And how in the hell did you fall out of my Favorites!??)
Isn't Joe Biden the Veep to prevent people from assassinating Obama? Just like Bush had the guy who couldn't spell potato? And his son had CHENEY the evil Halliburton Lord of Darkness? You pick someone that NO one wants to have as president and you are safe for 4 years.
I couldn't agree more. Funny thing is that most of the Republicans were for the bank bailout. Bailouts for the rich, but no help for the average American it seems. I like big government. I like public parks, libraries, healthcare, assistance etc. I think we all need to pay more taxes. The rich definitely need to pay more, but the middle class (myself included) probably need to pay more. If we all chipped in, maybe China wouldn't own our asses in one hundred years.
How much Government is TOO much Government? Just even the slightest bit more than I CONSENT to.

How much sex is RAPE?
Good catch. These little propaganda things the Republicans spin up and the Democrats swallow blindly really bug me, too.

In fact, I think the word “Sometimes” in your heading is key. The Republicans want to deal with black and white—you're with us or you're against us. The truth is that good is good, bad is bad, government is a tool that can be used for either good or bad, and eternal vigilence is the price of liberty.
A gigantic con job is being perpetrated on the Merkan public with all this fixation on the evils of deficit spending. There are a variety of unpleasant facts associated with this.

1. Over 2/3 of all debt is private debt used to finance derivatives and other instruments of financial destruction.

2. Pete Peterson and the deficit hawks have been trying for decades to destroy Social Security so that the world could be made safer for billionaires.

3. Almost 3/4 of deficit spending in US Government history came from Bush I & II and Ronald Reagan.

4. The Republicruds and the filibuster rule (and Harry Reid) are responsible for most of the problems facing this government right now.
Gee, I wonder which party it was that created all of the social programs that are not sustainable. Some day your gravy train is gonna run out of money and they will be forced to cut programs. Then who are you going to blame? Bush?
The fundamental fact of government is coercion, by violence if necessary, and the purpose of the state which it creates is to institutionalize that coercion.

Many people believe that people are too evil and perhaps too stupid to live without this coercive framework. However, we are stuck with this fact: the people who are going to do the coercing are no better than the people whom they coerce. Often, in fact, they are the worst people in the community, since sociopaths are naturally attracted to positions where they can coerce others. Democracy and the liberal rights were supposed to check and counterbalance the sociopathic tendency, but it is pretty obvious from recent history that any problems they might present have been solved by the U.S. ruling class.

Joe Biden is an exemplar of the sociopathic tendency. He supports crimes against humanity like the ongoing military adventures in Asia, the Drug War at home, the theft of billions of dollars from working people to support corporations and banks and the rich people who own and run them. Coupled with all this is a Welfarist rhetoric which is supposed to quiesce the home front. The leadership disagrees, of course, on details such as how the payoffs are to be imparted, and to whom. This is not necessarily a bad thing for them because they can draw the people into fighting over the details while they take care of the big picture: war, imperialism, and the expansion of class domination.

It may be that this arrangement of things is inevitable. Many of you seem signed on to it, or at least resigned to it. But you should at least be conscious of what you're asking for when you ask for more government.
Saturn Smith,

The problem with this viewpoint is what you *don't* talk about. Who can object to families buying food?

By way of analogy, everyone likes the Pyramids, but I certainly don't accept the slave labor that was used to create them. Human beings are not simply beasts of burden, with the only thing of importance to decide being what to do with their labor and income. The fact of the matter is, you *do not have the moral right* to seize people's labor and assets and do whatever you wish with them, whether it's building giant monuments or forcibly removing money to provide unemployment "insurance".

You also ignore the worldwide disasters that this principle brought us in the 20th century, in the form of Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, and countless other brutal authoritarian governments, some of which still exist. Such dictators were the most fervent advocates of the principle that the individual does not matter, and society owns all. Well, as you can see, individuals in those societies didn't matter.

Our current economic and political malaise is merely a milder form of such collectivism, and is what happens when you deny individuals the right to live freely.

Stop trying to send us down the road to serfdom.
@ mtnrunnertwo

"The fact of the matter is, you *do not have the moral right* to seize people's labor and assets and do whatever you wish with them."

At the same time one could argue that you haven't the moral right to drive on the roads, enjoy the safe drinking water, the orderly rules, the protection and safety, the world class education, employment in a business which exists because of these factors or any of the other luxuries that those of us who've decided to band together and beat back the anarchy have provided and created.

There are plenty of failed states out there where government doesn't exist that you would be more then welcome to move to, but please, we have a good thing going here, try not ruin it for the rest of us.
Great post. Obama and Biden think they can continue to con their supporters. I don't believe they can.
Very interesting. It remids me of something that I wrote, a while ago. My point there was that as we learned that there was safety in numbers we started to make financial sacrifices in order to stay together. That caused taxes and that caused government and frankly that caused civilization. Thake a look it is here:
http://open.salon.com/blog/mzafrullah/2009/03/20/redistribution_of_wealth
Whad-dar-ya? Some sort of COMMIE, PINKO, FIDEL CASTRO SPIT SWAPER?
My little joke.....don't worry; you sound just like ME!
If I can get the right help, BTW, I should be able to rip the last Admin a New One; for, though I'd like to have done this while they were still in office (they have their ways of fucking with you to prevent this - like awarding me my Disability Pesion for a Mental Illness, and sicking the Austin Texas Klan, who've hated me since 1982, on me), that does not make OK the fact's that I allude to in my Very First Salon Blogspace Post.
Ever had John Ashcroft stroll past you in your Local Park - and give you the Evil Eye? I have! Read It and find out why, oh America; I NEED YOUR, and Barack Obamas', HELP!!!
People were, like, KILLED - by NAZI's; and I think Mr. Ashcroft knew in advance of the Skinhead killing Jessica Williams, and knows more about how he (et al) was allowed to cover it all up, than has ever been revealed.
It would be Nice to show these ignorant (but not stupid, or at least I hope not!) 'Anti-BIG Government' People just what their Hero was really all about; allowing the Austin Texas Klan, and David Dukes Pal - John Ashcroft - to send a Skinheaded LA Cops Son, to Portland, OR., to rape, murder, slash open, and then set on FIRE (with lighter fluid; a copy cat crime - and I can prove it; as I witnessed, for the KC Police, something similar, in Kansas City, in 1995) a Mentally Retarded Black Girl. They then said that I was growing Herbal - not for Medicine (read my George Will Letter, please), but for the Skinheads Gang (The "Thantos Street Familly" - before the crime, I'd never heard of them!); and that I'D ordered her murdered - for being a 'Narc'.
That almost got me Killed - by Black People, with the ATK going, "Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!" the whole time.
It was all 'Big(oted) Governments' fault - really!
Good column. Sometimes government is the answer. Sometimes it isn't. The hard part of governing is to determine when each applies. It doesn't really help for Biden to say flat out government is NOT the answer. What we need are practical people... on both sides of the aisle... not ideologues.
Not safe for work - lots of f-bombs.

"Hell, It Takes Even Eli Manning Six Years to Make a Hundred Million Dollars!"
http://www.monkeybusinessblog.com/mbb_weblog/2009/10/hell-it-takes-even-eli-manning-six-years-to-make-a-hundred-million-dollars.html
Bravo. You are absolutely 110% correct. Government is a great good and is responsible for more social advancements than corporations ever dreamed of in their wildest board meetings. Government of, by and for the people has a principle product and that product is liberty. Pretty good product, no?
I think this is an excellent bit of writing, Saturn. I agree. In the latest rush to distance oneself from the woes of Washington, we have forgotten that government already works in some important ways, government still can.

Sometimes Joe opens mouth and inserts foot.

Rated....
LuluandPhoebe are correct that the economy is NOT recovering. However, BIDEN is correct that GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER. It was the PROBLEM, and a problem which, while in many ways started by Bush, in other ways by Dems and RINOS over Bush's dead body, has been EXACERBATED by Obama and left Dems. Fortunately, I can see November from my house and the problems will largely go away with the New Republican Congress, and stocks will soar a la Nov. 1994. Arguably, this has been going on already since July 2009 when even Nathan Daschle was suggesting that 2010 might be a repeat of 1994. Ya think?
Jenn, you wrote near the end of your piece the following:

"I'm tired of hearing it so sharply and constantly maligned. It's not perfect; it's not meant to be. But it's not the biggest problem we as a nation face by far, and it's ridiculous that anyone would think it's realistic to paint it that way. "

I am one of those who "sharply and [somewhat] constantly malign" the government. And for the gentle sake of discussion, not argument, I would ask that you think about a couple of the things you've said here, and then let me know what you think.

1. You say it [the government] is not the biggest problem we face. What is?
2. You indicate it [the government] was not meant to be perfect, which sounds like a throw away line. I say that because, as you well know, the phrase "in order to form a more perfect union..." was not a concept the founding fathers took up carelessly. The intended government to be perfect, knowing it would not, but that the citizenry was to embrace the constant pursuit of that excellence. Right?
3. Finally, it's never "ridiculous" to think out loud, honing the issues, asking for input, putting the questions out for contemplation.

Anyway, here's my take on this fairly controversial subject. I agree with your title, Jenn, since government clearly IS the answer to some of our problems, but more clearly to me, and perhaps to Joe Biden, is the idea that the government "answer" is too often simply a drug that keeps us from the symptoms, not a cure for the problems themselves.

What do you think?
Don, I absolutely don't think the men who wrote the Constitution intended to create a perfect government -- as you've shown in your quote, they knew that was impossible. Instead, they wanted to create a better body -- more perfected, or "more perfect" -- and a cleaner union of the interests of individuals and the needs of a polity. What we have as our government today is the child of that idea.

I think misinformation is the biggest problem we face as a nation right now, not government interference. There are many times when I'd cheer for more government action on an issue, but I see those wishes -- and the probable good that would come from government intervention -- dashed by those who hold up false examples of the harm they really believe is being done by a phantom government not connected to their desires.

Is it ridiculous to think out loud? Sometimes, yes, it is -- for instance, if you're the vice president of the United States, and therefore a representative of an entire administration, and you're in front of a microphone, it can absolutely be a bad choice. Now -- is thinking out loud bad as a practice? Is reasonable discussion like this? No! I don't condemn the form just because it's sometimes used poorly. I wish I could be more often granted the same allowance from those who malign "government," in general; it's not the form that's bad, it's sometimes the way that it's practiced or, more dangerously, I think, perceived.
How I enjoy reading this one. Could be a relevant material to my collections. Nice and good luck.

custom waterfall
I sense the pattern will continue until conservative politicians realize that they could put themselves out of a job, at which point they may start to see value in government again.


http://forshop.us