Orbital Matters

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith

Saturn Smith
Birthday
April 06
Title
Ms.
Company
The Solar System
Bio
Everything posted here, and more random thoughts, are also posted at my web site: http://kepkanation.com.

Editor’s Pick
JUNE 16, 2011 3:54PM

Democrats "win" as Weiner resigns: Party business as usual

Rate: 7 Flag

000D4BCB-0DFE-4BA2-8004-57EACA7A7207.jpgFormer House Representative Anthony Weiner

More and more, I find the differences between the parties in actually policy to be small, while the difference in the character of the two parties is large.

Democrats, who are willing to compromise on the House or Senate floor, "make up" for this perceived weakness (what many would call "pragmatism") with a desire to be absolute hard-liners about the personal ethics of their membership.

Republicans, on the other hand, hold a hard line of party-togetherness in legislative matters, but as a reward for often shucking the will of those who've elected them, their members get free passes on bad behavior.

Those on one side learn that it's more important to be faithful to one's partner than one's party, because only one might stand with them in a time of trouble; those on the other learn that it's more important to pledge blind allegiance to their party than their people, as the only shelter to be had is in the arms of the GOP. The problem with both systems is obvious: sometimes rotten men (and presumably women) get to keep their seats in these bodies, and sometimes they don't, and there seems to be little consistency in the method.

The natural source of blame for this is, then, the press, which does seem to cover different stories, uh, differently. The scandal surrounding Representative Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) was particularly media friendly -- there were pictures, there was Tweeting, there was a pregnant wife -- and so it attracted a frenzy of media attention.

Yet I don't think it's the media that's completely to blame in pushing Anthony Weiner from office -- well, honestly, I think it's Anthony Weiner who's to blame in creating the situation, but it's also the need to appear tough, pro-family-values, anti-weirdness, protect-the-children-omg that makes Democrats pounce at the merest mention of less-than-mainstream sexual behavior. This is still the issue that the Democrats should be strongest on and are, in fact, most insecure about: there's no such thing as an anti-family-values party, and yet when, in the 80s and 90s, Democrats allowed Republicans to define "family values" in a way that excludes an enormous number of functioning familial and sexual relationships in the United States, that was the moniker they inherited. So every time a Democrat stands up in favor of something as brazen (sarcasm) as the rights of gay people to marry, there's a tiny -- and often not-so-tiny -- voice that whispers across the newsmedia, saying, "Think of the children!"

Thus when the chance comes to show that, hey, pro-gay rights can also mean conservative-as-hell in the bedroom, Democrats pounce. Nancy Pelosi said as much in explaining her reasoning for calling Weiner out last week. It's still the best explanation I have for all of those who found Bill Clinton's behavior (not just his lie to the grand jury) to be an impeachable offense; it's the reason that Democrats don't, often, survive sex scandals -- even Mr. Weiner, who didn't have sex.

I care only vaguely about whether Anthony Weiner remained in Congress or not after his recent behavior. He's not my representative. I'd like the decisions about whether to stay in office to be left to those who could vote for him and, of course, to Mr. Weiner himself. I think it likely he could have "survived" in Congress after this behavior -- others have done so, despite terrifically bad judgment (see: Vitter, David; Frank, Barney; anyone with the Kennedy surname), but I'm not sure his party gave him the choice. How long would it have taken before he could be effective at his job again? Did he want to suffer another 18 months of this news as he prepared for a re-election campaign?

I doubt it. That's at the core, or should be at the core, of every consideration of resignation. It shouldn't be a question of shame or pressure from the party -- it should be an honest consideration of whether a person has passed a point after which they can no longer effectively complete the job to which they've been elected. Anthony Weiner seems to have passed that point earlier this week, in part because his party turned against him. If Democrats could ever see their way to spending half the energy on figuring out their members' ideologies as they do figuring out whether their members are behaving "appropriately" at home, these questions could likely be left to the home-district voters.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, though.

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I wonder why economic scandals, such as Rep. Charles Rangel not paying taxes, are tolerated by the Democrats, (although he was reprimanded, Mr. Rangel is still in the House) and sexual indiscretion is not.
Rangel may be a case of special circumstances, and even he faced some calls to resign. He just happens to have the political capital to fight those calls pretty strenuously -- and he still lost his chairmanship over the matter.
That's true, but both he and Rep William (cold cash) Jefferson remained in office until Jefferson lost an election before his conviction, losing chairs but not being forced to resign.
He got off very, very easy.
It may not be over yet. It's possible he committed a crime.

What Weiner's transgression proves, just as those of Foley, Craig, Edwards, Spitzer, et. al., is that sexual foolishness is really bipartisan. It's incredible that these guys never learn.
Sex scandal in DC -- one of the oldest institutions in the Republic. And 99% of the time, they don't amount to a hill of beans compared to the real issues that never get covered.
Interesting comparison of the two types of loyalty Saturn. I guess this is a recent phenomenon as these things were covered up in JFK's day and prior. Would Gary Hart have been the first prominent Dem to have had his career explode because of a sexual scandal? Or does Wayne Hays count?
He was lucky he wasn't lawfully executed by a military tribunal for treason, for sending a message at the behest of a foreign power.
Where to begin. The AW debacle is but the tip of a very corrupt, black, stinky iceberg which is politics, which seems to be broken with or without the Weiner scandal. We have the GOP who are just as happy as pigs in shit with the country and its population decaying, not addressing any of the real problems Americans are facing these days, and then you have the democrats who want to be as successful as the republicans. It's hopeless.

I feel lucky to be old enough to remember when news was as dry as toast, but it hasn't been that way for decades and people like Spitzer and Weiner (both very strong allies of progressives) of all people should have known that. We need more strong democrats in congress, not this craziness.
The first sex scandal involving a male leader probably was discussed in a cave by cavemen. The last one will probably be discussed millions of years from now during adjournment on discussions about what to do about the sun running out of fuel.

The guy may have allowed his dick and his ego to lead him astray in his personal life, but he was a voice for initiatives that this tired old country needs right now. He should not have been forced out.

Charlie Rangel either! Charlie may have done some shady stuff (cavemen leaders probably started that also)…but he has always been a steadfast voice for the working stiff.

The liberals have gotten good at eating their young…and it shows!
"but it's also the need to appear tough, pro-family-values, anti-weirdness, protect-the-children-omg that makes Democrats pounce at the merest mention of less-than-mainstream sexual behavior."

Don't you think that a week's blatant lying to the media, his colleagues, and everyone else in sight might have had something to do with what happened? How can it be that in this windy post, there's no mention of Weiner's galactic mendacity?
As a conservative I know I am not well liked here, but on this subject I am neutral. In the sense that I certainly don't think the Dems are the biggest offenders. Both are.
Money corruption makes me mad as hell and deserves jail time as far as I am concerned. Sexual stuff that is illegal, like if minors have been abused deserves the same.

Sex stuff between adults when sposess are involved just makes me
sad. I don't think these people are the scum of the earth because I am not a moral wing nut. It is just that those situations ending hurting everyone involved. Like Clinton. Who wins? No one. Hillary surely was hurt. I cant say what Monica feels but I doubt she thinks it was her proudest moment if she as any feeling for Hillary. And Bill is a guy with super status that couldn't resit
a sexual favor for a very young adult. Was it worth it for him
to betray his wife. These are not criminal offenses, but it isn't the behavior that I want from a politician. Is t so hard to resist
these temptations? Wouldn't Wiener feel better about himself he could hold his head high because he is the only person who knows that he declined to engage in that behavior. To be able to say to his wife "this happens and I haven't and never will let you down."

Liberal or conservative, why can't we have politicians who wont steal or cheat just because they want to do what they know is right.

It seems to me one can almost know who they are. Did anyone think Wiener was telling the truth? Or Clinton?

I never know who Gabby Gifford was until the situation happened.
Seeing videos of her prior to that, my first gut feeling just from her look and talk was a nice honest woman. Maybe we disagree but honest and likable. When Geitner went in front of Congress for approval, it was so obvious he is a little weasel. If I had a chance to meet Gifford, I would shake her hand and be happy talk with her if she would give me her time. If I met Geitner I'd tell him to go F himself. I am just now wondering why I cant think of more of them that I get a good feeling about. Maybe its because we only see then bad ones on TV all the time.

I admired Kennedy for balls of steel dealing with the missile crisis,
but does infidelity have to come with it. I not trying to pick on Dems. I know there are Reps. out there that are just as bad.
Watergate comes to mind. Vitter.
And while Barney Frank may have been at the center of the Fannie/Freddie thing, I have no doubt that some Reps became aware and jumped on to enrich themselves causing massive damage to the people. And knowing it had to blow up eventually. I hate them all for that kind of corruption.

Regardless of political view, why can't we have honest politicians. I would love the FBI to investigate all 535 of them
and if 500 of them have to go, it would be the great. Then the new 500 might understand that dishonesty wont be tolerated.

Regardless of party why do both sides elect people that are so obviously that kind that are likely to be in these situations?
Sometimes all it takes is one interview to know who they are.
They stick out like a sore thumb.
To Joseph Cole--We can't have honest politicians because bribery is legal. It's called lobbying. Democracy has been sold out. It's really that simple. Elected officials no longer answer to their constituents.
It's a reasonable analysis. In effect, the Democrats gave up on him because the Democrats decided they were going to give up on him and so because they had given up on him, he was going to be ineffective and they might as well give up on him... Circular nonsense that shows they don't think these things through.
See my related post Oh, the Hypocrisy.
All Weiner had to say was this - "I am going to resign - just as soon as Vitters resigns. Are we done now?"

I liked AW. I liked how he very nicely told people on Fox that they were assholes. Who is going to fill that void?

AW is an idiot, but who in Congress isn't?

latethink has it right on all counts.
I think you nailed it in the first two paragraphs. I find that I must be further left of the Democratic Party than I had realized.

I liked what a pain in the ass Weiner was from time to time. It served a worthy purpose.

And, I agree with Kent Pitman and latethink.
As a New Yorker, I was represented for 18 years by a guy named Al D'Amato, who was a bigger scumbag when he was asleep than Weiner ever was while awake. All he did was stick his hand in every public till, hijack a HUD program to get cheap housing for his friends and family, allow his brother to use his Senate office to solicit business contracts, and use his influence to try to get charged dropped against his Mafia don friends, and that's just the tip of the corruption iceberg. But hey, because he didn't take a picture of his penis, nobody hounded him from office. And we wonder why our government sucks?
Having read through the comments here and on other blogs, I've reconsidered somewhat. I do like Keiko's comment. Call out the worse jerks.
spread the word
breaking news!! in the NYT
WEINER VICTIM OF SETUP/ENTRAPMENT/FRAUD

Fake Identities Were Used on Twitter in Effort to Get Information on Weiner
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/nyregion/fake-identities-were-used-on-twitter-to-get-information-on-weiner.html?_r=1
ps there is a rumor that nancy pelosi considered the Xrated pic the LAST STRAW.
I wonder why she was so offended.
maybe because she hasnt had her own for decades?
:p
HAHAHAHAHA
ps hey keiko, I see you over there in your glass house not throwing stones, wink :p
great to see you have an actual genuine political opinion =)
Ralph Nader was fairly correct in asserting a complete lack of practical difference between the Republican and Democratic parties.

The one appreciable difference I can see is how much wimpier and ineffective Democrats are in effecting the principles for which they claim to stand. The only time they get tough, is against one another. Pathetic, again.
I'm pissed at the Democrats right now...but anyone who truly does not see any difference between the Democrats and the Republicans simply is not looking.
Of course, there are profound differences, and viva for them.

I hope Apisa stays pissed at the Dems although I harbor no hope that he'd ever vote for a conservative, just as I know that no Tea Partier, however right wing, would ever vote for Obama unless in a coma at the time. If you think the reference to the coma sufferer is unclear, take your pick.
Hey Gordon…

…good to see ya.

You are right, I doubt I will ever vote for an American conservative in any election. I feel American conservatism was wrong at the beginning…wrong in the middle…and wrong right now. (Revolutionary War Times; Civil War Times; Today)

But make no mistake about it, I am furious with the Democrats and liberals who are not recognizing that it is better to get done what CAN GET done…than to get nothing done in the name of sticking to principles.

Obama is more than likely going to be a one-term president, unless the Republicans manage to actually go with one of the losers they are currently championing. Obama’s one hope lies with the Tea Partiers. If they manage to do all the damage they can to the Republican Party (and the damage they can do is considerable) the guy has an outside chance at a second term. But even the Republican electorate ought not be stupid enough to allow that to happen.

In any case, I think Obama is too intelligent; too pragmatic; too decent for the likes of us. We don’t deserve him. We deserve much, much less…and that is what we will get if the Republicans take back the White House. That…we WILL deserve.
Thanks for the friendly greeting, Frank. It's been a while.