"Mom, what's a pagan?", my son asked when I walked in the door from work yesterday. I thought he was studying something in history. Trying to give my best off-the-cuff definition of a pagan, I explained that it was a broad term used to describe people who were non-Christians.

When I asked him why he wanted to know, he explained that someone on the bus asked him what religion he was. Since we do not attend church on Sunday, he did not know what to answer. He told the boy that he did not go to church and did not have a defined religion. Instantly, this boy labeled my son a pagan.
We live in a rural part of New Jersey. Most people in town attend either the Presbyterian church or one of the Baptist churches. All in all, it's a very Protestant area. There is a Catholic church in town, although it is less popular than a larger Catholic church several towns away, and much less popular than the Protestant churches.
My son was baptized in the Catholic church, but we did not attend after that. I was raised Catholic in a rather liberal southern Catholic church. The bishop at the time allowed the priests to speak their minds and have a lot of freedom in how Mass was conducted. I have never found a similar experience in another Catholic diocese. After moving to New Jersey, I rarely went to Mass.
In my neighborhood is a small Baptist church. For a few months, I tried to go there because it was convenient and the people seemed nice. I thought it would be nice for my son to have some Sunday school, like what I had when I was a kid. The Baptist church was more than I bargained for. I became upset when I heard the pastor frequently speak about politics during his sermon. He said that God knew who we were voting for and we were responsible in the voting booth for making sure that God's law became man's law. The final straw came one rainy Sunday. I had to walk out when the pastor claimed that victims of the Indian tsunami went to hell because they were mostly Muslims. When the words came out of his mouth, I felt a rage rise in me that lifted me out of the pew. I thought of all the Indian and Indonesian fathers and mothers crying after the tsunami on the television news. Crying for their lost families and crying because their hearts were broken. I felt indignant that this pastor could slight the victims of a disaster beyond their control. Who was he to say that God did not love and care for these people? It was then that I realized exactly how intolerant and spiteful some religions could be. I slammed the door behind me and haven't been back to church since then.
So my son is confused how to label himself in a community full of church goers. I believe in God but I have a hard time finding God in organized religion. When I was young, I went to church every Sunday. Granny got us up and made sure my sister and I were in the pew every Sunday. My son has not really had that same experience on a regular basis.
I told my son that just because we don't attend church doesn't make us pagans. We had a discussion of the three major monotheistic religions and other religions, as well. I told him that we believe in God, we just don't belong to any church. It's difficult to explain the purpose of religion to a thirteen-year-old. It has to be hard for him to be a non-churchgoing kid who wants to fit in at school, in a town full of churchgoers. I feel a similarly indignant that children at my son's school want to label him as a pagan because he does not belong to one of the local churches. Not going to church does not equal pagan.
Being proud of one's religion is one thing, but it should not extend to teaching one's children to seek out and put down people who do not adhere to the beliefs of that one particular church. I told my son that he should tell this kid that it's none of his business what religion we are. If he persists, ask what religion he is. When the boy answers "Christian", respond that he doesn't act like one. Christ didn't make a point of seeking out and belittling people for not going to church every Sunday. Christ made a point of hanging out with the un-cool people, the tax collectors, fishermen and prostitutes. He led by example and not by coercion, from what I've read. He seemed more concerned that we give up materialism and vanity in order to better help the sick and the poor. To me, all religions have validity and I believe people have to find their own personal path to follow. It is no one's place to judge or condemn.
Today, my son and I took a walk in the falling snow. I want him to see that God is everywhere and not confined to a building. He never needs a priest or a pastor to be near to God. He doesn't need his peers' approval or a label to be near to God.

There is beauty and grace all around us.




I have often worried that I am raising a heathen by not taking my son to church. After this, I think not going to church is the better choice if going to church produces children who attack others for their beliefs.


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Comments
Heathen is also a word being reclaimed these days. It originally meant someone who lived out on the heaths - i.e., another roob. It's used these days by people reclaiming the Nordic religions - you know, Thor and all that.
We modern Pagans with a capital p would say with you, "There is beauty and grace all around you." Some of us might call it God, or Goddess (or Gods/Goddesses plural), or Spirit....or Nature...or Life...or nothing at all.
But I don't recommend small town people adopt those terms, pagan and heathen, that once meant, well, small town people...cuz it sounds like your small-town people have some small-mind issues (tho I'm sure they're lovely in many ways).
And you know I was raised in a Catholic town, went to religious instruction and Sunday school. We sure didn't talk politics. What is going on? It's just insane. I'm not Catholic anymore, but when I was it was all about learning your catechism and singing and seeing your friends at church. Then it turned to not having abortions and it was all downhill from there.
And you know, just what is wrong with being a pagan? I love some pagan holidays. They can call you anything they want, you don't have to answer.
So we taught her early (she may have been 5 or 6) to say she was an "Inter-galactic Periodontist" (the last bit a family joke, take too long to explain). We never knew if anyone asked her till one day at some kiddie party a mom asked Mrs. C. where this Inter-galactic something church was, sounded very New Agey and she was interested in finding out more!! True story.
WOOF
I don't know if you've seen pretend_farmer's latest post, but she would kill (figuratively, of course) for those chickens!
said. Blessed Be.
If your child gets stuck in that position again, tell him to answer, "Jedi". Bet he gets his friend to convert :)
It is important to be true to yourself. I would have walked out of that church too. I had to explain to my baptist minister in WI why he can't use the term wetback from the pulpit.
Teaching your child qualities like kindness, love for all and justice will stand him in good stead. When he is curious enough, he will explore religious/spiritual questions. Or not. Either way, we all make that choice. You're wrestling with the questions yourself. Take credit for that, Scruffus, DO NOT pick up guilt, but love your son and if you're really interested, with a seeker's heart, start seeking. The Universe will respond. It's all about what resonates with you. BTW, I am a long time Protestant, and spent the weekend with a bunch of Pagans, neo-Pagans, Witches and earth-based spiritualists. I can't tell you what those words mean, but we had a blast. I might even go back!
I felt indignant that this pastor could slight the victims of a disaster beyond their control. Who was he to say that God did not love and care for these people? It was then that I realized exactly how intolerant and spiteful some religions could be. I slammed the door behind me and haven't been back to church since then.
Religion is another reason I cannot find peace in the south. So much intolerance yet they believe they are good Christians. Although I don't like to judge, I do hold them to following the Golden Rule as well as the first two commandments. If they thumb their nose that these, the are decidedly NOT Christians regardless of what they want to believe about themselves...
Pagan is not the right definition for your son, however. We have to think up something that others will understand, as "spiritual" seems not to set right with those that follow Christian doctrine...it seems not to be good enough to be good and love God. A label is needed?! I don't think so, but we surely spend enough time trying to find one to describe our beliefs. Good luck!
I was raised in the Church of England - and attended Baptist and United services too. Family politics could get interesting.
I think kids need to know they are loved and part of a community - but giving up what defines ones beliefs is the same as succumbing to a cult.
Standing apart from the crowd makes one a target : that's human nature. Being called to set an example of what your faith has done for you is wearing...but that seems to be what life has given you.
Rolfe Schmidt has a WordPress blog about homeschooling; but sometimes religion gets into the mix. His take on why people ought to give 'Brotherly Love' pride of place over dissent that proves nothing and is anything but loving is well worth a read.
"How many souls did you save"
Dad was a priest. He would decry human behaviour where people would not have the decency to tell others frankly what they thought : the only ones capable of changing offensive actions.
That minister sure sounds like a target to anyone who doesn't mind letting go a zinger.
But I know : you have to live in the community. So be a Christian. Forgive him his ignorance : and tell him so.
Just a thought from a known scamp.
I was raised with no religion and still got yelled at and brow-beaten by the local "Christians" because they assumed I was some sort of Pagan -and funnily enough, I actually am now.
I try very hard not to judge the people who try to use their religion to beat down others and assert their superiority.
I guess a lot of people assume that if they are right, that must mean everyone else is wrong, although why anyone would want the job of going around and checking to make sure everyone agrees with them is beyond me.
rather than live as if there's no God and later find out that there is one...
It's good that you found God in the snow. Some people find angels, but they're usually man-made. Some people find God in church, too. Not me. I go for the music when the music's good, and leave early if it isn't. This makes me a church-goer, I guess. However, like you, I claim no religion. But unlike you, I assume no God.
If you think, "not going to church is the better choice if going to church produces children who attack others for their beliefs," you're in for trouble. Boyhood produces children who attack each other for anything, and has since the time of Christ, Abraham, Gilgamesh and before. It's how boys grow, sharpening the competitive instincts. Don't fret too much or you'll raise a sissy. But worse - much, much worse - in closing him off to church, any of the "three major monotheistic religions," or any other sophisticated discourse, because you somehow think a walk through the snow will suffice, you close him off to thousands of years of walks through the snow...and sand, and cliffs, and rocks, and caves, and surf, and everywhere else greater thinkers, writers, scholars, and shaman have walked.
You say a pastor slighted Islamic tsunami victims, which made you "realized exactly how intolerant and spiteful some religions could be," and so you "slammed the door" behind you and haven't looked back! Well...W. Bush slighted Islamic war victims for 6 years. It was then that I realized just how intolerant and spiteful some forms of government could be. So I slammed the door on American Democracy!
...and told my son to self-govern with the chickens in the snow.
Does that follow? Of course not. For one, I have no son. And for two, that pastor is just one pastor - not an entire faith; and Bush is one moron - not an entire political ideal.
It's good that you found God in the snow. Some people find angels, but they're usually man-made. Some people find God in church, too. Not me. I go for the music when the music's good, and leave early if it isn't. This makes me a church-goer, I guess. However, like you, I claim no religion. But unlike you, I assume no God.
If you think "not going to church is the better choice if going to church produces children who attack others for their beliefs," you're in for trouble. Boyhood produces children who attack each other for anything, and has since the time of Christ, Abraham, Gilgamesh and before. It's how boys grow, sharpening the competitive instincts. Don't fret too much or you'll raise a sissy. But worse - much, much worse - in closing him off to church, or any of the "three major monotheistic religions," or any other sophisticated discourse, because you somehow think a walk through the snow will suffice, you close him off to thousands of years of walks through the snow...and sand, and cliffs, and rocks, and caves, and surf, and everywhere else greater thinkers, writers, scholars, and shaman have walked.
You say a pastor slighted Islamic tsunami victims, which made you "realized exactly how intolerant and spiteful some religions could be," and so you "slammed the door" behind you on religion and haven't looked back! Well...W. Bush slighted Islamic war victims for 6 years. It was then that I realized just how intolerant and spiteful some forms of government could be. So I slammed the door on American Democracy and haven't looked back!
...and told my son to self-govern with the chickens in the snow.
Does that follow? Of course not. For one, I have no son. And for two, that pastor is just one pastor - not an entire faith; and Bush is one moron - not an entire political ideal.
Anyway, I'd bet pennies to pesos that while you were going on about grace and beauty and God and chickens and snow, your son was thinking on snowballs, snowmen, and snow wars with his homeboys. By what authority do I write this? Well...I'm a son who was once a boy who didn't go to church. Thankfully, for the sake of my rhetorical development, I never bought into the "God is everywhere" talks I had to endure while thinking about healthy mischief - thoughts that are ever more sound to me, even now, than everything you've written here.
The Church isn't the religion, it's a building. Going to a building and giving Pastor Jim my dollars in the tray and then I get to sing 'Take it to the Mountain!' does not make me religious, nor does it make me a good person. The actions do!(okay, punching the VP of Marketing did feel good, but according to Pastor Jim, it was wrong!! :( ;) )
Rated.
I have to get to work. I will respond more later, but I do appreciate all of your comments. What Roy Jiminez said.
Love the chickens, mine never get to play in the snow.
When I was about your son's age, I witnessed a kid tell another kid that his grandma was in hell because she wasn't a Baptist. It put me off Baptists for sure! But it's not necessarily fair to blame the church for the flaws of its members. Christians aren't supposed to tell other people they're going to hell. In fact, we're specifically forbidden to do that - "take the speck out of your own eye before you try to take the beam out of another's eye."
I hope, whatever you teach him, you teach your son to respond to ignorance with grace. When people act like mean old idiots, it's tempting to answer in kind - but then the level of discourse goes down and down and never up. For it to go up requires grace - someone has to be the first to be nicer than the other person deserves.
Best of luck to you!
Thanks, Americain. I try to do my best. Issues like religion can be thorny.
Thank you, Allie. I try to teach my son to be a good person above all.
I am a recovering christian. I have decided that since so many of the major religions state that god lives inside of you, in some form, we are all "god". I have found humanism/rationalism to much more satisfactory than organized religion.
Good luck.
Larry Lawson made my point a little more charitably I was going to but let me just add, this is why we need to tax the churches. When they become political organizations they violate their tax-exempt status.
"I told him that we believe in God"? Maybe you should have told him that YOU believe in God.
Thanks, Stellaa, for the very true words.
That's a good idea, franjef. I'll keep it in mind.
That's cool, Cap'n Parrotdead. My son's question reminded me that people outside of this house are judgmental about religion and that wasn't something I had actively considered in raising my son. I feel pulled to honor the traditions I was raised in but feel left out in today's churches. I guess I need to think more about what I want because I don't know. I feel like a religious hybrid but how do I explain it to a 13 year old who has never been immersed in a particular church?
Hopefully I'm not repeating too much from other comments but paganism IS a religion! And most of the Christian holidays fall where they do because they were originally Pagan holidays.
Maybe you could start a pagan church in your front room?
Note to Larry Lawson: You said, "All religions attack folks of other, or no, religious belief." I respectfully disagree with this statement. You might not be familiar with the Quaker religion, but I assure you that we are probably the most tolerant you will find. No one is attacked because of their religious belief (or lack thereof) because Quakers believe that there are many paths to truth. Everyone has That of God within him/her and therefore, every person is valued.
Great post, Scruffus, with beautiful photos.
If I have to come up with a label for myself - which I don't like to do - I consider myself a Pagan with Christian underpinnings. I'd like to call myself a Witch, straight up - but you can imagine how that goes over in small towns.
Bottom line: I wish we could teach our children as well as ourselves about spirituality and drop the damn labels.
By the way, kudos for you for walking out of that church. I hope that door slamming of yours echoed for some time!
Here's a link on one def of Paganism:
http://www.paganfederation.org/paganism.htm
You know, I am still waiting for the day that someone says God caused the destruction of the Twin Towers in the Wall Street area due to usury.
"If thou lend money to any of My people, even to the poor with thee, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall ye lay upon him interest. (Exodus, 22:240"
Somehow I'm guessing it will be a long wait.
I think often times people don't realize that there are more meanings to a religion and it is a personal issue. No earthly vessel has a heaven or hell to put you in, so they can not tell you where you will spend eternity. I agree with the comment that asks what does religion have to do with God? I think too often people mistake the two and it's not about a specific religion. I know many religions who feel like their religion is the best and it may be, but until they learn how to catch more flies with honey than vinegar, we will never come to that realization.
I think first, always remember how important it is for most kids that age to fit in, they really hate the idea of being different from the group, most of them. Finding identity and so on ...
What jumps out at me though is the use of a derogatory term by another young person, 100% proof they heard from an adult in their practicing religion.
These "modern" (NOT!) derivatives of Pauline nonsense, I mean Christianity, are so absurd when viewed objectively, and fail so miserably in emulating their supposed Savior, and, even more horribly in failing to protect their own children; they've truly institutionalized the blind eye.
Further, why buy into it? Why insist on using the Jesus example for everything as if he was a real person and not a construct?
Turn the other cheek? I don't think so!
Auwe
Ha ha, odetteroulette, it was quite the scene without me saying anything. It was noticed. Thanks for liking my pictures.
Sciencechick, you're right, Christian holidays often fall on traditionally pagan holidays. I heard they did it to try to lure more converts.
Thank you, Lisa, that's fascinating about the Quakers. There's a Quaker church nearby and my husband works for a company run by Quakers. They seem to be lovely people.
Thanks, Beth Mann. It is hard to figure out all this stuff when most of society demands you label yourself. I don't feel like I fit into any category. Because of my upbringing, I feel mostly Catholic, but that doesn't apply in the strict sense because I ignore a lot of the church's official doctrine. I like your idea of saying hell with the labels.
Mandy, I agree with you about not needing a building or label. Thanks for reading my post and commenting.
Cassaundra Blythe, thanks for the link to the author. I appreciate your comments clarifying what it means to be Pagan. I look forward to reading more.
Thank you, ApacheSavage, for sharing your experience.
Thanks, J L Davis, for reading and commenting. I have to research more about all this because I thought they were all close to the same. It's something I never had to confront or think about until now. I'm glad you and others have pointed out that it's not all the same.
Lisa Sinervo, yeah, it's interesting to see what causes are attributed to disasters.
Thanks, Olga Little, for your assessment of the situation. You're right that people forget that religion and God are two separate things. That seems to be the crux of the matter.
John Newton, my husband would agree with you. Thanks for reading and commenting.
Oahusurfer, I appreciate very much your kind words. Identity is truly the overwhelming force in a lot of these grade school interactions. My son just wants to fit in and other kids are trying to figure out where they belong, as well. They are using religion as a tag to form groups or exclude others from the group.
Thanks for the beautiful photos of NJ. Nobody every thinks of "beautiful" and NJ in the same breath---but rural NJ is tops!!!
`
I read as far as the first comment:`Yea for Myriad! YEA! Now, I read the other comments. Pagan use to be a Beautiful word with no UGH
stigma.
Earth folk.
In tune with Nature's,
harmonies and rhythm.
The city slickers scrubbed and went to be dirtied in the city. DOOM!
Of course, there need to be cities. I'll read more slowly and moon gaze for a moment. Go off the porch for a gaze and leal. huh. Yes!
`
I've a signed copy of DRAWING DOWN THE MOON, by Margo Adler. She is the granddaughter of the renowned psychiatrist Alfred Adler and now a reporter for National Public Radio. What a great way to start the day.
Beautiful. Beautiful.
O hope. Healthy day.
NO miss moonbeam.
Be a bit moon dazed.
In some respects, The United States seems to be the land that time forgot...
Two comrades:'Gerry Martin from Silver Spring, Md., and Leroy Lawson from Georgetown, DC.! Those two infantry 'grunts' who same-same, bless their dear souls,
and though departed, they hauled,
and dragged me, and others to safety!
Compassion in motion. However, tho
they are no-longer here. Two veterans
who flopped me, Etc., on a Red Cross
flight-from a bloody `Nam battlefield?
Sadly! O put gun to the skull,`um dead!
May`Gerry Martin & Leroy Lawson rest.
Peace. Requiem.
And I am serious.
' Open Salon's front page. apologies.
Thank you, merwoman! The chickens belong to my neighbor. Sometimes they get out. Once I saw a chicken attempting to get in a car with one of the Baptists.
Arthur James, thank you for your extensive comments. The second one reminds me of my favorite poem that goes "Dulce et decorum est.."
Norwonk, thanks for reading and commenting, yes, it wasn't something I thought about either until my son was getting picked on for not having a particular religion. Our Puritan heritage is alive and well.
Ghost writer, that's funny. I think Crusty was a pastor there. Ha ha...
That's a great idea, Cap'n Parrotdead. I will. He seemed annoyed at first that I wrote about this. Thirteen year old boys don't like attention drawn to their problems. He will appreciate everyone's support, I'm sure. Thank you.