Sex - and death - the elephants in the human race room.
Violence is alright, we can deal with that, all we have to do is tell our kids it's wrong. But Gods forbid we should have to explain sex and death to them before 'til later'.. let's put that business off as long as we possibly can.
"You'll feel differently when you have kids of your own."
As a childless woman I've heard this one time too many.
And I want to ask "Really?" I mean seriously, honest question, why? One doesn't have to have kids to understand what kids are about - if one does, then 'one' is living in an alternate universe where kids don't exist. Feeling differently is a simple matter of body chemistry and instinct, not intellect. Suggesting that one must experience kids - as a parent - to understand them is rather strange actually - it suggests that adoption does not and will not work, which is patently false. It doesn't take adoption or birthing them to assume responsibility for their well being either, or we wouldn't have non-parent teachers in the classroom, in day care centers or numerous other venues where adults are responsible for the well being of children. The only way an adult does not understand - or take responsibility for - children in this world is because they've chosen not to, not because they 'don't have them'. Show me the adult that won't try to save a child from recognizable physical danger and I'll show you a rarity - most won't stop to think "I do/don't have kids, why am I doing this?" they just do it. An instinctive act, not an intellectual one.
Tell the aunt that just lost her nephew that she didn't understand the pain his mother felt simply because she wasn't his mother. Tell the man who lost a close friend to suicide that he can't feel the pain of it because he wasn't a father, brother, son. Tell all of those here at Open Salon who responded to one of 'our own' in their time of emotional need that we're all just going through the motions, not really feeling, because we aren't them. It's called empathy, it helps us understand the other person, their position, walk a bit in their shoes. We all have this trait. Even if we don't all use it. And it lets the childless understand the child.
Sasha Gray (the woman referenced in TFC's post) is a volunteer with an organization that promotes reading among children, yet her participation has caused a bit of a kerfluffle among the parents of some of these children. It seems that due to her prior involvment in the so-called porn industry she has been deemed an inappropriate choice for reading to these children - perhaps even as a representative of the organization itself. I find myself wondering if her detractors would also find it the morally responsible thing to do, to turn away any monetary donations she might provide them with because of her prior associations? If she agreed to refrain from in-person involvement would that make it 'alright'?. If Larry Flynt (founder and owner of the porn publication Hustler) had founded and was supporting The Children's Miracle Network would that mean it's services are rendered innappropriate as well - if he made a practice of making personal appearances at fund raisers for instance? Somehow I suspect the money would change hands easily enough given enough of a low profile at it's genesis, if that genesis were deemed socially inappropriate. So can we say 'double standard'? Just one double standard among many in our contrived society.
Because, in my opinion, our socially accepted methods of handling sex and death aren't really about morality.
No, what I think it's really about is being a species that is afraid of facing - and living - life. Period.
We're born because of sex (even with IVF that sperm and egg didn't come from the cabbage patch). We are naturally fascinated with sex, it's in our genes, hard-wired, a fact of life, whether we're 'getting any' or not. Nor is this fascination confined to those of the opposite sex for each other, this fascination applies to all sexes of all species - and ages - whether opposite or not (possibly excepting single celled organisms and those reproducing asexually). In humans sexuality is no longer for reproduction alone, it's recreational as well. My reading tells me that researchers have found that in some few other species it serves the same function - dolphins for instance - do we suppose that dolphin parents keep this activity behind closed doors? Oh, no, sorry, I forgot, they're lower animals (although some of those same researchers would argue that particular point). I suppose that our pioneering ancestors who found themselves living in one and two room cabins, sleeping quarters often separated by no more than a blanket draped across a rope (if that), were lower animals as well. Children have both ears and eyes, constantly feeding information to their brains for processing as they mature ; no doubt that those pioneer children were curious about those sounds coming from the other side of the room, in the darkness or beyond that blanket. Seeing what was going on wasn't necessary. And yet our pioneer ancestors managed to produce families - large ones - without all of this angst over the sex that produced those childrens' next sibling. Most of those children already had an understanding of sex well before the appropriate 'til later'. They lived on farms with livestock that reproduced and died routinely. In spite of that here we are, going strong as a species, indeed supposedly having advanced as a whole.
With the exception of this business of sex and death. Not only have we not advanced, we've backslid.
Sex is no longer natural, it's secretive, forbidden, sometimes illegal.
And death - real life death - is to be avoided or at least staved off 'til later'. For children - many excused from human funerals, their first brush with death is often that of a beloved pet, supposedly that is 'easier' on the child than seeing Grandma Hetty in her casket lowered into the ground. By whose judgement is that pet's death 'easier'? Oh yes, that's right, the pet is just an animal, the child can't possibly love it as much as it does Grandma Hetty. Or so we like to tell our adult selves. Death, the unnavoidable conclusion of life, is relegated to some 'other place', not spoken of around the children for fear of damaging their tender little psyches - we can put it off 'til later'. Better for them. They wouldn't understand. Better for us.
Definitely. Because we can put off having to explain something we don't like to acknowledge as adults. We die. All religions aside we don't really know what happens after. It's scary and beyond our control. Death is something we don't even speak to other adults about unless it's unnavoidable. Like sex. Unless we can make a joke of it, locker room and hen party talk. Any other venue makes us uncomfortable. I don't see this as species advancement of any kind. We're actually attempting to postpone recognition and understanding of two of life's most major components. Waiting for some mythical 'til later' to arrive. Hopefully before the children discover sex for themselves, or Death comes knocking at our collective door. Newsflash ; children are adept at discovering self-pleasure - quite early - and Death abides by no one's time table save his own.
I was struck by one thought as I read about the parental reactions (as well as comments that followed) to Sasha Gray's reading for the children. Her prior profession has made her an innappropriate choice to read to children, which infers (yes it does) that she really shouldn't have children of her own. This moral judgement is close to another that agrees that anyone other than a heterosexual should not be teaching in the classroom.
Perilously close in fact. And far from anything resembling advancement of any kind or measure.
We still have some growing up to do as a species before we can lay claim to being any kind of 'advanced'.


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Great rant. I want to read it again ASAP.
You choose an interesting time to bring this up. I just got back from a funeral for my cousin's son. Turns out the message from my brother was a bit garbled and my wife misunderstood the name.
Any way, I've been thinking about sex and death. What struck me was Mothers (my cousin. Lunchlady ) weeping over lost children. The image that came to mind was a distillation from a long ago read of the Bardo Thodol- the Tibetan Book of the dead, about escaping a next life when you have died. As I remember it, the spirit is presented with images of copulation, ranging from rape to lust to love , and is drawn in by the pulse, the animal beat of desire. I couldn't help thinking of that in terms of what is available for a porn cruise of the Internet these days. Is anyone who flitters from lustful image to lustful image at the speed of electricity simply giving himself a preview of what will be presented to him at death? Can he avoid being drawn back down into the hell of physical existence? Only if the soul can turn away from the desire for earthly things can it pass through to "heaven" ( non- incarnation, Kind of like going before a parole board to see if you've developed any remorse) If one is drawn back to the scenes of earthly intercourse, one is drawn by the characteristics of ones soul to a compatible beginning in the womb of a teenager?, a whore? a loving mother? and the wild throbbing un-music of desire, gradually becomes the soft present persistent murmur of the beating heart of a mother. The pornography of the world. The writings of a Whore to Desire. ( Pornos = whore, graffiti= writing ) So we all come to be...... desire becomes pain, becomes love, becomes wisdom, becomes moving on....... again and again... That's entertainment.. the community theater of God.
I think it's interesting how all of my opinions were "supposed" to change after I had my daughter. They adapted somewhat, perhaps, but my core principles haven't wavered a bit. For one thing, why parent your child by pretending you're someone else? How will your child ever grow to know who you are?
Being a parent doesn't change what you value, what you think is right. It just changes your focus. It wouldn't change how you felt about Ms. Gray's reading to children unless you hadn't given the issue any thought to begin with, in which case that's more of a change from not thinking to thinking, not from one developed viewpoint to another.
Yes, parenthood is a life-altering experience. Yes, it can change you - I was nearly forty when I first became a parent and it's the first time in my life I felt like an adult, but that's me. It can make you ask different questions. But the only way it can turn you from a libertine to a puritan is if one of those stands is based on hypocrisy.
In a civilized society, Michele Bachmann is the morally corrupt one, not Sasha Gray. To prejudge Sasha Gray as having a bad influence on children is ugly, and unfortunately, American. Excellent post, Seer, wise as ever. R
Get it: WOOD SHOP!
Anywho, indignant girl, when you have kids of your own, you'll love it when someone disagrees on what (and who) your children should be exposed to and demands that you like it or lump it.
Wood shop! - I slay me.
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My point is, when teachers invite a guest speaker (or in this case, reader) into the classroom, typically it is someone who brings something to the table, talent or otherwise. Such as someone of some note that the kids would know and/or admire or could at least be told who they are and why they are there. This could be anyone from a parent or community leader to local or national celebrity they would be familiar with in some way.
Sasha Gray, while I applaud her apparent commitment to the cause of promoting good reading habits and despite whatever mainstream films she may have done, is "famous" for one reason and not one with which kids would be familiar. Different story if she were to have a child in that classroom; then I absolutely would see the point of her being there to read to the kids, as I would any parent volunteering their time to help out in the class.
Judge Ms. Gray for her past? No reason to. What should be evaluated is her contribution to the classroom experience for the kids other than an ability to read.
RP * excellent illustration of one of my points, thank you :).
Spumey * {{geez, how did I not see this coming?}} Yes I do get it, wood shop indeed. {{snort}} Fortunately I'm way past having kids that anyone will tell me how to raise or what they can or should be exposed to ;). Fortunate as well I suppose because my kids wouldn't have lacked exposure to all of the parts of life we experience and need to deal with - can't make everyone happy can we?
Thoth * 'morally corrupt culture of militant busy bodies' - ooh, I like that, can I borrow? Thanks for the visit my friend :).
Kosher * indeed, we are what we are - unless we're not :D. Kids *do* change you, just as any other life altering event must. Just that we make many of those changes more difficult with our strange notions about the natural order of things ;).
TFC * if you hadn't written first I'd never have thought about this myself - and you happened to hit one of my 'hot buttons' - but you did great yourself, we just came at it from different angles :).
Token * interesting - if scary - kind of Groundhog Day-esque - thought 8-O. But we don't know, do we? They may indeed have it right. 'That's entertainment.. the community theater of God'. Ooh, I like that too (and with some knowledge of the various mythological pantheons' residents I can very easily imagine their laughter ;).
Lisa K * 75% eh? {G} Appreciate your visit!
Fernsy * I know, that 'you have to be a parent' thing gets really old really fast doesn't it? Especially once you're of child baring age yourself :-/. Considering those doing porn-for-profit as suspect.. I don't know, maybe, for most of us (considering most porn, that I've seen anyway, is of the completely story-less sort, it seems kind of boring to me. It's no wonder those folks work out, can you imagine keeping up that kind of repetitious activity when out of shape?! And I wonder, do they have voice coaches? Especially the women, to learn the tricks of keeping from going 'laryngial' ;).
I commented this on TFC's post, and it more fully addresses the question of "Who should read to/ teach our children, so I thought I'd comment here as well:
You've said a lot of things I've wanted to point out to people by times. As a photographer who has always found "Figure Studies" a very useful way of giving attractive (to me) girls an opportunity to participate in something we both wanted an excuse to do, the subject of "pornography" fascinates me (But then many subjects do) The driving force behind the development of photography wasn't portraiture, it was porn. The same was true for the great painters (come on, you didn't think they made a living painting ceilings, did you?) No, nominally celibate priests and stolid burghers alike were not so much interested in supporting the arts, as having a "decent/deniable' focus for their appreciation of the lust inducing. Lust inducing symbols date back to the shamanic clay "Madonnas' of cave men.
I, as a photographer, never passed up an opportunity to produce what many would consider "pornography" - usually in pursuit of the seduction of the model(s)- who were delighted to have an artistic excuse ( back then it was good form to at least pretend to need one) for the experience. Never saw the need to distribute it. It had served it's purpose by the time the shoot was over.
That said, shaping children is a troublesome thing. I would personally object to having Obama read to my children (of which I chose to have none) For the matter of that, I don't want Newt Gingrich reading to them, either. I'd like to think that I retain the right to shape their minds without competing with a glamorous "Star" who will use the celebrity to fill their minds with nonsense.
But, the way of the world is that it happens all the time.
Should children whose parents want them to believe in creationism be required to have their children taught an understanding of evolution? Should parent's who want their children to believe in evolution be required to have their children taught an understanding of creationism?
When it comes down to it, the only way to be sure your kids are properly taught is to teach them yourself. And that means fielding any questions about such things as "pornography" that they may drag in from the outside world.
~R~
*And that means fielding any questions about such things as "pornography" that they may drag in from the outside world.*
Token, one of those misty childhood memories of mine (which usually means I wasn't ten years old yet ;) is of coming back home from across the street ; the family there had moved recently, their daughter had died of encephalitis, and the place was empty still.
Myself and a few neighborhood friends had been enjoying the unfettered freedom of an empty (of adults) 'playground' when we came across words hand-painted on the inside of the empty carport closet door. We could read of course, but as this was back in the early 60's, reading those words didn't mean we knew what they meant, let alone if they were 'good' words or 'bad' ;). They were just words.
My folks have always been 'kid magnets', I was essentially an 'only' once my brother left for the Navy, but with all of the kids that hung out at my house I didn't feel socially deprived. And my friends and I dashed across the street to my house to ask 'Mom' what 'f*ck you' meant. To this day all I remember her saying was that it was a slang word for an adult bodily function - she didn't even bother with explaining what slang was and we weren't by that point curious enough to ask - it was an adult thing, that was explanation enough :D.
She didn't get upset, she didn't ooze any kind of attitude, at least not one we kids could read (and we were pretty astute), she just pretty much tossed it off. Ho hum, no big deal. Which left little room for impact - we tried playing around with the words for a bit as we went back to the empty house, but since it was an adult thing we lost interest right quickly :D.
Which was, I think, what TFC was saying in her post - the less of a deal adults make of something the less interested kids will be. And for most kids the word adult, uttered matter-of-factly, indicates a yawn-worthy subject. Adult meant things like going to work, cleaning house, cooking meals, saying NO! - stuff that cut into time better spent flying down the street on our bikes and wandering the woods at the local park, or playing marbles out in the alley that ran between the homes on one street and the next (and dodging the neighborhood 'mean dog' as we ran by his yard where he was chained).
Playing marbles, did I just date myself or what?
:D
Thing is, think about what an eight or nine year old does when you bring up that 'cute little boy/girl' in their class at school, asking if they like them in that smarmy 'oh, little boy/girlfriend' way parents have?
Usually a pained "Oh Mom.." response, if not a resounding "ICK!".
Which is likely what you're going to get if you start talking about sexual body contact sports. Mommy loves Daddy is more than enough information to a grade schooler - what Mommy and Daddy did to make baby brother Bob is too much information - and considered boring too - so long as Mom and Dad don't get all weird and fishy eyed about it :D. Kids don't care about adult stuff.
Unless *we* first make it secret and exciting and interesting.
It could be I don't understand the circumstances of Ms. Gray coming to be reading to a class. As you describe in your example in reply to me, for Generic Elementary School in Anywhere, USA, I would fall in the list of choices below Sasha and you. Hopefully in my daughter's classroom, I would be a bit higher on the list.
20 years later I still like to look at women, clothed and unclothed, but anyone who appears to be under about fifty makes me feel kind of creepy, like I was looking at kiddy porn. And it must be my second childhood, because the imagination of "swapping body fluids" with attractive women still fascinates me, but I find any idea of making it real with anyone but my wife brings up an echo of childhood's "ICK!"
Most things kids learn are no big deal, if an adult doesn't make it a big deal. that's both good and bad. Waiting until kids are adults to try to teach them the things they need to be adults strikes me as kind of foolish. But I still reserve the right to tell kids that an adult is the wrong one to learn from. Funny thing is, some people say that about me. I'm everone's cantankerous and slightly dangerous and disreputable old uncle. And I'm content to be so for my family and my friends families. I often find myself talking to kids about things their parents don't talk to them about. That's why their parents let them spend time with me. Kids are too much trouble, other people's kids are no trouble at all.
I am sure Sasha is a fine person. Being a porn star doesn't make her a bad person. And no one is inferring that she shouldn't have children of her own - that is a stretch. But she is known by her former profession. For better or for worse she will always be associated with being a major porn star and I don't think that's the best association for an organization that promotes literacy. It's a simple fact of marketing, of advertising etc. Her twat will always precede her. Sorry for the language but it's true. That is not a judgment, it's a fact. Should they pursue Anthony Wiener as a spokesperson? How about Bernie Madoff? (if he outlives his sentence, ha). Their reputations will always be their calling cards and that's a distraction if you want to be taken seriously, like it or not. And it doesn't have to do with being uptight - it's the connection the mind immediately makes when it hears the name.
Kids are savvy. They're curious. They know how to use computers and how to Google things. What do you tell the child who goes home and Googles Sasha's name and he comes up with Sasha Grey Extreme Gangbang. Is that what's called a teachable moment?
As far as kids learning that sex is normal, healthy and fun, I agree. But I hope you don't believe pornography is the way to teach them that. Because a lot of it isn't healthy and doesn't portray what you'd call normal sexual relationships. I think you know what I mean. I've seen a little of Sasha's work and I wouldn't say it's the best introduction for kids - as far as promoting healthy sexual interactions and feeling good about themselves.
I don't think people are quite as in denial as you think they are as far as death or sex goes. Sex is so in-your-face it's already confusing for kids. They see it everywhere and hear it too, in music, in video games, on TV. Little girls esp. are sexualized at early ages by the fashion industry, toy companies, in movies, in music. We don't need to hurry it along by exposing them to porn prematurely.
I actually think we have further to go regardng death, although maybe I'm in the minority. I've preferred to talk to my kids about sex - at least you can laugh about sex and there's answers. Never shied away from it; took the lead, in fact. Since my 2 older kids found their dad dead in bed, that took care of death in a rather abrupt manner. Kind of forced into that discussion. Like in a gang bang kind of way, ha ha.
Sorry to be so verbose. The more I have to think about something the longer-winded I get so that is a huge compliment. I like to stir the pot a little. :)
We don't actually *think* about why we feel the way we do as a society about either sex or death - that is the problem. Putting either subject off 'til later' doesn't work - we've got clear evidence of that. Violence in the media (often purely gratuitous) is common to the point that we have a ratings system for it now, and teen pregnancy is also common in spite of the frankly bandaid nature of attempts to address it. We're not facing these realities as a society.
We slap a patch on 'it' here and there because we're afraid to get in there and talk about them first as adults, and second with our children.
For your scenario of the child that googles Sasha and finds such a movie title - you bet your socks it's a teaching moment - the real question here is this : *what are you going to do with it?*
Ever ask yourself (not you Margaret specifically, the all-inclusive you :) why a couple of centuries ago children were becoming beneficial members of society as 'young' as sixteen to twenty? They were starting up their own farms, working in the family business, beginning their own families after helping raise their younger siblings. Going to war. Today the only thing the young still commonly do - by design - is go to war.
Even when they can't pick up a beer they're going out to defend their country. We send them out to fight, sustain serious injuries, or die - but allow them none of the other adult responsibilities (or the 'perks' that come with them). Why is that do you think?
That's right, we don't *think* about it. We just keep putting it off 'til later'.
What I'd like to see 'us' think - really think - about, is how we got here from there? Where did we go off of the common-sense rails?
And how do we fix it? 'Cause it needs fixing, there's not a lot of what we have currently that's good or working. Maybe we'll never manage to fix our taste for violence, but I think fixing the problems with sex and death are at least possible - but we have to think - and then start talking - about them first.
I'm fuurily sure that most of us didn't get here from a gangbang.
BTW: Sasha is writing a children's book: "See You Next Tuesday". It's kind of like "Oh, The Places You'll Go and Get Syphilis. "
Haven't you ever heard of the Big Gangbang Theory?
There's one way into this world (birth) and one way out of this world (death) and I would far rather my children know and understand that the people they love WILL, inevitably, die. Sheltering them from that fact does not "help" them to cope with that reality... and children have *as much right* to say "Good-bye" to those they love as we adults do.
As for sex... again, don't look at me... I'm the mom who buys condoms because they are cheaper than coffins... and who talks to her children about sex because education provides them with choices... and the only thing keeping a child "in the dark" about sex accomplishes is making them more curious and more willing to do things which might get them killed.
Mhold {G} indeed..
Communication with good expectation of truth and without fear of reprisal may be the lynch pin - for everything. We've kind of gotten away from that as a society in general as well :-/.
Ms Rennis ma'am, thanks and thanks for the visit :).
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