Sgt. Mom

Sgt. Mom
Location
San Antonio, Texas,
Birthday
February 21
Bio
Retired military, novelist and mother, sucker for animals and homebody

MY RECENT POSTS

NOVEMBER 13, 2009 8:17AM

Memo:An Effective Response to Ungentlemanly Attentions

Rate: 34 Flag

From: Sgt. Mom

To: All In Group
Re: Effective Response to Ungentlemanly Attentions

1. It is occassionally brought to my attention that certain alleged gentlemen in public life have been behaving in an abusive and ungentlemanly manner, most particularly in their attentions to assorted female co-workers, subordinates, and passing strangers. Sgt. Mom spent 20 years in the military, a milieu almost overwhelmingly male, and has considerable experience in coping with those males of our species who fancy themselves as wolves, or give the impression they were raised by same. The thought has often occurred that the instinctive response of women who have been subjected to such disgraceful behavior may not always have been the most effective in preventing reoccurrence.

2. Standards of gentlemanly gallantry have shifted somewhat in recent decades, admittedly. A male acquaintance who was a mad fan of the early James Bond films watched them on video some thirty years later and confessed himself appalled at the misogyny, and demeaning behavior demonstrated toward women by his hero. What was saucy and flirtatious in 1960 appeared terribly boorish by 1990. Standards of polite behavior were not assisted during this same period by any number of people, male and female, which had such standards all confused with political and economic justice, and were experimenting with new ways of getting along in a mature and professional manner.

3. Most of the gentlemen of Sgt. Mom’s acquaintance made accommodation  WRT male-female relationships by internalizing the standard that if they wouldn’t say it to their mother, sister, daughter, girlfriend or wife in public, then they certainly won’t say it to any other woman in a professional or social setting. This is a satisfactory and generally workable standard. There are however, those men who persist in ungallant, unwelcome and offensive behavior, and without “blaming the victims” in any way, I am afraid we have been remiss in our customary response to abuse in the workplace.

4. Ladies, those of us who have spent any time in a traditionally male-dominated field are aware of certain home truths. Among these truths is that some guys are just clueless jerks who will never come to an understating of how offensive they have been, when the response is the usual girly-girl passive-aggression. Smiling weakly, and then running to the ladies room for a good cry will not do any good. Moaning to your girlfriends, or simmering over it for three or four years before complaining to the Social Actions Office, or Human Relations, the crusading columnist for the LA Times, or your touchy-feely Womyn’s Support Network will not do any good. Even getting a lawyer, and bringing charges years after the fact will really not do much good, although it may make you feel better  and make your lawyer a little richer. Is some guy saying something crude, offensive and demeaning to you? Nine out of ten, the offensive jerk has no clue - or if he does, he is your plain old garden-variety bully. The most effective way of responding to either version is to stand up straight, step up toe to toe, take off the genteel white gloves, squash down all your instinctive ladylike inhibitions…. And be just as crude, offensive and nasty in response. Don’t cry, don’t whine, just go straight for the jugular, or other vulnerable area; think of it as raising his consciousness, or establishing a good working understanding. If these actions are well and effectively performed, he will not grievously offend again, and if he does, you guarantee to serve up his balls on a silver plate, tastefully ornamented with a spring of parsley and perhaps a small tomato carved into the shape of a rose. The offender will be enlightened as to the error of his ways, and apologize abjectly;  you will shake hands and never mention it again.

In conclusion, I will remind you again; strong women do not take crap or look to others to fight for them; instead they dish it back with interest.

Sgt. Mom

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I love this possibly more than any post I have ever read on Open Salon.
Your advice is fantastic. This column should be sent to every women joining Open Salon. I was trying to say the same thing in my post on Missish Damsels in Distress, but it got lost in a debate on Jane Austen. Your advice is a 100 times better. I am going to write a post calling this to everyone's attention.
Thank you for this post. The advice was wonderful. Now if you could just explain how to grow the balls before you take off the white gloves I would be all set.
Great advice! Mary, thanks for sending me over here to read it. I'm e-mailing it to my daughter!
Absolutely! Any man who belittles or objectifies a woman should expect to have his balls served up to him... and preferably by the target of his bad behavior.

And if I may add to this, I would also say: Please don't expect someone else to "defend your honor" if you're not willing to stand up for yourself.
It depends, Janie - on what he said. You would have to come back with something snappy. The all-time classic ripost was in Aliens II, where a male Space Marine looked over a female Space Marine doing pull-ups and said, (IIRC) "Have you ever been mistaken for a man?" and she answers, "No... have you?"
Yes! Many years ago I worked in Show Biz, where the only proper response to a man's "F**k you!" was "Take a number and get in line." The sentiment is called "Give As Good As You Get". That's how you get the respect of the jerks you have to work with.

Only a few years ago, when I was working in the financial services biz in an almost completely male environment, a woman asked me how I did it. "I speak fluent Boy" I told her.

If you can't make 'em laugh, scare 'em a little!
Ma'm, yes ma'm. Rated with respect and attention.
I am transferring here the comments on the Mary Wollstonecraft repost. I have added instructions on the post beginning, directing all comments here. You can''t answer comments on two blogs, and dialogue needs to be in one place.

*applause* this is dead on. in my 20s, i had a lot of trouble standing up for myself in these kinds of situations (partially because i was in a culture/country where standing up for yourself as a foreign woman almost always worsened the situation), but now i won't take that kind of shit from anyone. i'm a small, friendly, easygoing southerngal in expat's clothing until you fuck with me...then my inner lion roars.

bravo...i will be forwarding this to a 20 year old friend who is being constantly harrassed on the metro here in paris!

merci!
mela mee

NOVEMBER 13, 2009 10:30 AM
"My, you look pretty," strikes greater fear in the hearts of human resources directors than "Oh, my aching back!” Personally, I was saddened when it became taboo to offer complements on appearance to co-workers. Everyone likes to hear that they look nice, that a particular color flatters them, or perhaps, that the new power suit was worth the cost. When people feel proud, it is reflected in their work and not every comment has a hidden agenda. Women aren’t completely innocent in this issue. I have found it interesting that those who run fastest to HR with a complaint are the very ones who can strip a guy naked with a glance. That being said, I have known men who got great pleasure from making inappropriate comments around women. They're the ones who need to have their "coglione" skewered.
Donna Carbone
NOVEMBER 13, 2009 10:35 AM

Sarge, you da woman! One thing I've always liked about ex career military women is their refusal to play victim. Another upside is that you don't have to worry about pc word censorship while having a civil conversation: they tend to actually like most men and do not view themselves through the lens of victimization.

Scott Abraham
NOVEMBER 13, 2009 10:40 AM
*applause* this is dead on. in my 20s, i had a lot of trouble standing up for myself in these kinds of situations (partially because i was in a culture/country where standing up for yourself as a foreign woman almost always worsened the situation), but now i won't take that kind of shit from anyone. i'm a small, friendly, easygoing southerngal in expat's clothing until you fuck with me...then my inner lion roars.

bravo...i will be forwarding this to a 20 year old friend who is being constantly harrassed on the metro here in paris!
Years ago, I had a fella at the radio station I worked at who kept harrassing me. I told him in no uncertain terms that 1.) no, 2.) he was married, 2.) he had two children at home, 3.) he was as old as my father, and 4.) no. He continued harrassing me, at one point coming into the control booth when I was reading a newscast and trying to give me a neck rub. I finished the story I was reading, went to commercial, killed the mic, picked up one of the zillion razor blades we had lying about (this was back in the days of tape-splicing), and told him that if he did not take his hands off me I would cut off his balls and hang them from the rearview mirror of the station truck.

He never bothered me again.
Drastic measures, Leeandra - but effective! Yeah, I remember editing audio tape with a razor-blade and a roll of editing tape - we used to wind up with boxes of Weck surgical blades, and when they got too dull to edit tape with, I would take them home to use in my hobby, of building scale miniature furniture. They cut 1/8 and 3/16 basswood very well, and I can guarantee they cut flesh quite efficiently. Got the scars on some of my fingers to prove it...
I am struggling mightily with my own misogyny when I see how few people have rated or commented on this. I linked to it on my own blog, reposted it on Mary Wollstonecraft, notified all MJK and MW favorites, facebooked it on my OS facebook account. I have always wondered if women are the enemy of women's liberation.
I got my balls from my mom and gave them to my daughters.. Once when a guy in a car pulled her over and exposed himself, she took a good look and said, "I am not impressed."

Their father used to take the two older girls to school on the subway. The 5 year old insisted on running around the subway pole. When Chris tried to stop her, she screamed loud enough to be heard by the whole car, "You take your hands off me." Poor Chris expected to be arrested. In 4th grade when the screamer was harassed by a boy in gym, she pushed him up against the wall and scornfully said, "loser."

The intense stare my two month old granddaughter directs at everyone, as if she is evaluating their souls, reassures me that a new generation is taking over.
Well said, Mom.

I've spent today flouncing about the workplace in a very girly long denim dress and Guatemalan shawl; have received at least 20 completely sincere compliments on my appearance from men and women alike and am grateful for every one. They've all been of the "fabulous dress/love the wrap/great look today" variety. I like to think most men have enough common sense not to say "Hey, that outfit makes your tits look great," even when it does. ;-) So let's give MOST men the credit they're due. For every wolf out there, there are 100 awesome puppydogs.
I am contemplating unfavoriting every single women who does not comment on this post. I moved heaven and earth to publicize it. Well, Missish Damsels in Distress did worse.
http://open.salon.com/blog/cassandra_woolf/2009/11/12/missish_damsels_in_distress_and_their_white_knights
Thanks, MJ - don't worry about it. I think of myself as an acquired taste, like that for very fine aged brandy, expensive dark chocolate, exquisite tailoring, and cigars made only in a tiny factory someplace.

But, your mom's response is priceless - exactly the right kind of response, even better than "Hey, do you have to pay a nuisance tax on that thing?"

And VR - Yes, now there are enough men who have been brought to see the light, and not act like wolves. They may be thinking it, but some no BS-woman brought them around to see the light. It's a damned good thing to be able to speak fluent "Boy." It saves a lot of trouble and heartache, all the way around.
My mom was far more of a feminist than any of her highly successful granddaughters who deluded themselves we live in a postfeminist society before they had children. I had more heated arguments with my daughters who are oblivious to sexism directed at Clinton and Palin than I had had since they were teens.

I have decided to go back to being Redstocking Grandma, though my profile states clearly I am MJK. If you search google for Redstocking Grandma, every hit is me. I would be crazy to renounce that. In a real sense RSG might be the real name of me as a grandma crone:)
I'm not one to take advice from films, even good ones, but I recall an absolutely priceless line from something I saw on TV years ago with Bernadette Peters (and possibly Clint Eastwood, although that really doesn't sound right). She was in a car, being taken across the country as an apprehended lawbreaker, if I recall correctly (don't ask me why she was left alone in the car, which I think was a convertible--I think she'd been cuffed to it). A man approached, opened his raincoat and said something like, "Whaddaya think of this?" She looked at him, her bored expression never changing, and said, "That looks like a p*nis, only smaller."

Almost enough to make me sorry I've never been able to use the line. Almost.
I have also found that the direct approach works best. It can be tough when you feel intimidated and outnumbered, but it is truly the only response that works.
That it is, EP. It is amazing what you can get away with, if you have a whiplash-smart command of repartee and sufficient assurance.
easier said than done, especially for our generation. great advice.
I try to be enlightened, really I do. But I still like the 1960's version of James Bond!
We all have our guilty secrets, P... mine is for Ben & Jerry's chocolate ice-cream...
Mine is regency romance novels. I discovered Georgette Heyer at 12 when I ran out of Jane Austen novels. They are the only romances I read.
My whiplash-smart command of repartee and sufficient assurance served me well until I was diagnosed as a manic depressive and forevermore it was seen as a manic symptom. A book needs to be written about assertive women and shrinks.
I've never come anywhere near a shrink to be diagnosed with anything ... oh, I error. When I was about to be assigned to a remote tour in Korea, my daughter seemed to have some emotional problems coping with the prospect. Went to a civilian mental health professional who specialized in that sort of thing - her diagnosis seemed to be that yes, daughter and I did have issues, but were managing them sufficiently well enough on our own, that there was no need for her services.
Which was reassuring. If I had wanted too, I have the impression that she would have taken us on a clients, and returned us basically back to the same point that we were at, anyway.

Not to disparage mental health professionals, or the problems that people have. It's just that, quite often, we really are capable of working through stuff without the help of professionals.
The one and only time that I have ever been harassed at work I was 20 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico doing an Environmental Inspection on an oil rig. To understand how MISERABLE that inspection was you have to understand that (a) I can't swim (b) I'm TERRIFIED of heights (c) I get seasick in a canoe and (d) oil rigs in the Gulf aren't exactly the most "solid" structures in the world. I felt like I was standing on the observation deck of the Eiffel tower most of the 4 days we were out there doing the inspection.

I had this fool decide that THE thing to do was grab my butt EVERY time he got within about 5 feet of me... After the first couple of times I pointedly asked him if h e wanted to draw back a bloody stump. After that he left me alone until the night before we were due to leave and then he tried it on again...

~Grins EVILLY~

I grabbed him by the proverbial short hairs, dragged him to the edge of the deck and politely informed him that he could either keep h is damn hands to himself OR I could throw his ass off the deck and he could feed the fish because I DAMM SURE was NOT going to yell and scream about him going over the side.

For some odd reason my boss decided that it was really NOT a good idea to send me out to do the inspections on rigs. I THINK it had something to do with the fact that I was NEVER doing another one without a scrimtar with me.
Excellent memo, Sgt Mom!
I give you 10,000 cool points for writing this. It is not only appropriate, but timely as well as timeless.
Brave and well done.

Rated.
This is excellent. I'm forwarding it to my daughters.
Mom, I liked this post; there are ideas in there that I wish my wife would incorporate into her work life - she is a victim of plain-old harassment, not sexual at all, but the concept of standing up to 'em is universal.

But I gotta take issue with your response to VR. Surely you don't mean to paint all of us with the same brush? For the record, I have never spoken "boy." Nobody needed to drag me kicking and screaming to see the light. It came naturally, in spite of all that testosterone.
I would like it if you would repost here the Mary Wollstonecraft interview with you . Not enough people saw it.
Great post, excellent advice, Sgt. Mom.

I wish I had your wisdom much earlier in my life, but I have acquired some of it on my own; and what hasn't killed me has made me stronger, I hope.

Luckily I did not come across many "clueless offensive jerks" in my career, however, discovering one in my second ex was a shock and a wake up call for me. Sometimes I thank him quietly for teaching me to become stronger and fight back in his own game for plotting against me with his "feminist" lover.

Rated (and shared with daughter and niece)
DOJ subpoenas popular news site for visitors' ip addresses, emails, credit card info and more:

http://joshfulton.blogspot.com/2009/11/doj-are-dirty-fascistic-bastards-they.html
Thanks for this...and I love your photo.
I so wish that those women who are putting up with horrific abuse would stand up for themselves. I'm getting mad at they way that they just sit there and, not only take on abuse, but help the abusers.

They are able bodied enablers who want someone to put their life at risk doing their job for them.

It is about time that we had advice that advocated stepping up in one's own defense. Great post. Redstocking Grandma recommended it, and I'm glad to have read it.
Actually - Zum - women who are being horrifically abused - in a domestic or even a social situation - that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, than someone taking a little bit of stick from the guys at work, or down at the corner local. In that case - why the heck don't you drop the inhibitions and stand up for yourself.
In the case of someone who will have the heck beaten out of her for responding verbally to such abuse... what I said here may not apply. Well, not unless she has something on her with a caliber that begins with '4' and legal counsel and a lot of disinterested witnesses...