Hell No, We Won't Go! Yet, I Kind of Wish You Would
I got thinking about protests this morning.
I like protests. I think protesting is about as free as a person can get. I like that I live in a place where I can get up, go stand in front of a building, and yell "I don't like what you're doing and I want you to stop because I think what you're doing is wrong and it's really pissing me off", and not be sent off to a gulag or have my spleen ripped out. I can even appreciate protesters who are for whatever I am anti (or vice-versa). I may not agree with you, but I defend your right to disagree. For instance, I am completely anti-monkey-dressed-as-humans. Monkeys dressed as humans completely freak me out. I think there are few things as disturbing as seeing a monkey in diaper, except for maybe seeing a monkey dressed as a cowboy. It just seems completely unnatural, if not somewhat cruel. Now, you may be pro-monkey-dressed-as-humans. You may get all kinds of joy out of seeing a monkey dressed like Prince Charles or Sarah Palin. Personally, I think you are out of your mind and should seek medical attention immediately, but hey, it's your right. If you want to go outside and yell, "I love monkeys dressed as humans" at the top of your voice, well, I think you're certifiably insane, but goddammit, I'll hold the door open for you. I think it's stuff like that that makes this place full of potential.
I do draw the line here, though:
Kids at a protest - I hate it. Makes no damned sense to me at all.
As I said, I don't care what your views on anything are. Feel free to speak you mind. If there is something that your are passionately for or against, protest until your head pops off. But, for the love of God, stop using your kids as your fucking agenda props. Frankly, if your precious little Tyler can't walk or read, I really don't give a shit what his opinions on the Stimulus Package are. If little Ashley can't even spell abortion, why the fuck should I care what she thinks about it? If you make your kid carry a sign, frankly, and please don't take this the wrong way, you're a selfish parent. If you are using your kid as nothing more than a prop to further your cause, you are nothing more than the Carrot Top of protesters, and I will refuse to take you or your opinions seriously. If I want the inside scoop on "Spongebob Squarepants" or Legos, then Tyler is my go-to man. Trust me, I can talk for hours about Spongebob and Legos. Me and Tyler will keep ourselves entertained the whole day, don't you worry. But if I want to discuss whether or not god hates gays (I'm pretty sure he doesn't, by the way), I'd rather do it with someone whose skull bones have completely fused. Of course, that automatically knocks out every member of the Westboro Baptist Church.
This goes for both sides. I'm pro-peace and pro-choice, and I've seen kids holding signs for "my side", and it pisses me off just as much as seeing them holding signs for "the other side". I've never seen a kid at a protest who looks happy to be there. They all look bored and curious why everyone around them is yelling. I see a kid at a protest, and I just want to grab the little bugger and go play with him in the dirt. Right after I punch his parents in the face. And yes, I get the irony of punching someone in the face, while claiming to be pro-peace.
I see these kids there, and I always imagine this scenario:
***************************
Mom: Joshua, hold that sign up straight.
Joshua: (who can't actually speak in complete sentences yet) Bubbles.
Mom: Joshua, hold still while I pin this fetus to your jacket
Joshua: (who still can't form sentences) Muffin Toast.
Mom: Joshua, we're going to pull you in the wagon so all those baby killers see you.
Joshua: (still not speaking in sentences) Glurb.
Sheldon the Wonder Horse: Hey, Joshua's Mom, you're a douchebag. <SMACK> C'mon Joshua, let's go see what Elmo's up to.
***********************
See here's the thing. Your kid will eventually grow up, and hey, he may not grow up with your beliefs. They may actually get to the point where they can think for themselves. It's possible that they may grow up and be Pro-Dolphin Rights. Then one day, they're looking through old pictures and come across a photo of them as a toddler with a "Fuck All Dolphins" t-shirt on. Trust me, that's going to cause a discussion at Thanksgiving .
So, protest all you want. It's your right. But leave your fucking kid at home. Let the kid be a kid and not be used as political statement. Let them grow up and form their own opinions. Stop putting your words in their mouth before they even know how to speak. I don't want to have to punch you in the face and scar the little monster.
I'm sure you'll do that just fine without my help.
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crazypants
AnandaPratt
jimmymac1025
Kathy Riordan
wakingupslowly
Joan Wilder
Salon.com
Comments
"Jathan, Mommy wants you to hold up your 'Faggots Rot IN Hell' sign the funeral is coming!"
It's tragic for them to take advantage of their children in this we, but we can hope they will grow and rebel against their parents and become liberal thinkers who are pro-choice.
I loved your title.... that took me back a few years... Bradley University, 1971!!!
It really pisses me off when suburban mommies stuff little Suzie into a tutu before she's out of diapers, or push Johnny into a sport when he still wants to climb trees and play in the mud (I'm totally with you on the mud thing, and the Legos), or--out of my rant, and back to your post--use them as cheap (and usually unsuccessful) attempts to play on the hearts of passersby as they push their beliefs on anyone who's looking and listening, however unwillingly.
Rated. Good balance of pissedoffedness and humor.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, although I have to admit to having my kids hold up my campaign signs at a rotary when I ran one time, and my daughter spent the entire day with me at the polls three years ago, but that, I rationalize, is a little different.
And do not get my started on the Westboro Baptist Church, the cretinous bastards.
Little kids shouldn't be a vehicle any more than they should drive one.
As far as the monkeys go. We had a monkey dress as a President for eight years and I didn't here much about that.
There should be a law about taking YOUNG kids to protests . .teens are one thing, they can choose to walk away, but the little one's cannot.
I'm all about the right to protest, but this is SHIT! Period!
What has all this to do with demonstrating? Well, put it this way. If something was organized that I care about--say, an antiwar march in D.C.--and the choice was to go and bring the kids or to not go, I would go. I know I'm going to generate a lot shitty responses on your thread for this, but before everybody gets their knickers in a twist, I'll have you consider--especially if you are childless--that theorizing about what should and shouldn't be done is nice, but the reality is that parents work with far more on their plate than the typical "what if" scenario allows.
So, in theory, I agree. The scenario you articulate should be avoided, but I would hesitate to judge when faced with a real situation.
And Sheldon, I have two words for you: Lancelot Link.
Every day you get better and better ... soon you're going to drop like a rock ... I know a good place for rehab ... don't sweat it, I'm here for you
Rated.
When treaties were discussed between Whites and Indigenous peoples, the natives insisted that the children be there to remind both parties that they were involved and affected by decisions made unto the seventh generation. They had a right to be there.
1) I made them. I feed them. I make the rules, and if I say so, they are holding that goddamned sign. End of story. Argue with me, pal, and I'm taking away the TV for the rest of the day! I also bought them T-shirts that say Viva la Evolution! although they have not really had much to say about their beliefs on that subject. Too bad. They can just suck it up and wear them.
2) Many people are unable to leave the children at home and go protesting. Babysitters aren't easy to come by, and neither is cash.
3) I think it's a good thing for kids to be aware of--that in our country we can express our ideas.
4) There is a magical age somewhere between 13 and 14 where they will automatically disagree with me. So up until that time, this is payback. They agree with what I think. They like my music. These years are MINE MINE MINE.
Having said that, I have never actually taken the kids to a demonstration. Whenever I am even a little concerned that there might be verbal or physical altercations, tear gas, or some other dangerous situation, then there's no way I'm taking them. Seems like a dumb thing to do.
What is it with this Friday? It's a day of great writing fer shure.
You have my support if you want to organize a protest of protests. Those kids are going to be serial killers, I just know it.
1. Marches: most definitely bring kids. It great FUN to be marching down the street yelling and screaming. I'm tempted to join marches even when I don't agree with the cause! Don't make the kid carry a sign though unless he made it himself.
2. Sit-ins where arrest is imminent- NO KIDS. Are you crazy?
3. Riot where store fronts are kicked in: Hard to say- on the one hand kids would really, really enjoy it.... but on the other hand they really shouldn't. Ah well- responsible parenting has to come first. No kids at riots.
4. Historical rallies and public spectacles: for example, Obama's inauguration. This one is iffy. The kids will be bored to tears, and will want to go pee-pee as soon as you find a reasonable place to stand or sit.... and the potta-potty is about 1/2 mile away. Too much hassle for me. Braver parents might want to do it just for the sake of being able to tell the kid "You were at Princess Diana's wedding procession" etc.
5. Protests where clowning, ritual humiliation and red-in-the-face screamfest is expected: anything involving ACT-UP, Earth-first, PETA, or anything involving tree-sitting, throwing paint on people's coats, screaming at pregnant women, spitting on soldiers, naked wimmin, disrupting funerals, etc, etc: ABSOLUTELY NO KIDS. This would be child abuse. Keep the public embarassment to yourself.
These were two young mothers in NYC in 1959 who refused to take part in citywide Civil Defense drills, believing that "duck and cover" was ludicrous and was more about keeping citizens in fear than actually protecting them from nuclear attack. The two women individually went out to public places with their babies and refused to take shelter when the air raid sirens went off. Both women were arrested and taken into custody with their children. Afterwards, they learned about each other from the newspaper accounts of their arrests, and with the help of Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement, organized a massive protest for the following year, mainly composed of mothers and their young children, who brought playpens and baby carriages and toys and tricycles to the event. This was important, as none of the cops wanted to manhandle a mother, and taking that many women and their babies into custody was simply impossible. This protest (and similar ones in other cities in the following months and years) forced the government's hand and put an end to "Operation Alert" pretty quickly--no mandatory air raid drills have been held since 1962, and the U.S. and U.S.S.R. were forced to begin work towards ending the Cold War.
Yes, the children were very pointedly used as props in this protest...but if they hadn't been, how much longer would it have taken?
you may or may not have seen this, but it's apropo and pretty funny (I won't steal bandwidth by embedding the image) http://laughingsquid.com/god-hates-signs-protest-of-the-westboro-baptist-church/
And I think, in your imagined scenario, you're confusing "children" with "severely retarded children". I'm not suggesting that young children have the mental capacity to understand the nuances of a credit derivitive swap... but most of them are capable of utlizing language beyond the scope of "blurb" and "muffin toast".
If you're going to make little Matilda Mae hold a sign about how Abortion Kills (presumably to make some sort of connection to the idea that fetuses become children like little Matilda Mae and look isn't she sweet and wouldn't it be a shame if she had been aborted) you should first make sure that little Matilda Mae isn't the sort of sneering pug-nosed brat that makes all people everywhere think, "You know, I never really LIKED children."
My husband says it's possible she just has the sun in her eyes, but darn it, that's an unappealing child.
Re-read your words again. You're sounding like ArrogantMom
I made them. I feed them. I make the rules, and if I say so, they are holding that goddamned sign. End of story. Argue with me, pal, and I'm taking away the TV for the rest of the day! I also bought them T-shirts that say Viva la Evolution! although they have not really had much to say about their beliefs on that subject. Too bad. They can just suck it up and wear them.
Those with that attitude will say "I'm being a strict parent, anything less will be overly permissive".
That's nonsense! This "believe what I believe, and if you don't like it too bad" isn't a sign of being a firm parent! That's a sign of being a parental bully!
About this "exposure to free expression of ideas", while taking kids to protests can be one way to do so, and even better way to do so is to buy books explaining multiple sides of the major issues of the day! I remember seeing such books in a high-school library, and they're a great way to expose kids to important issues!
Anyway, I'll be the judge of how to teach my children the lessons. Not that books are a bad way to go, but protests/demonstrations and the like are also a way to learn, and I don't get what's making you people so uppity. You're not against taking kids to church or teaching kids about sex or what's right and wrong. You'd probably applaud that I take my kids to the polls with me. So what's the BFD?
BTW, I have taken my kid to some pap smears. I don't have a personal assistant or a live-in nanny.
Rated. As always my online lmao friend who keeps things just fuzzy enough that it all makes sense.
I was one of those kids, many years ago, carrying anti-abortion signs. Kinda has a lot to do today with why I am an athiest ex-Catholic.
She is a quiet and calm child and was able to sit still for the 30-45 minutes it took each time.
Why did I do it? I don't use outside babysitters - I come from a child-centric country where that is not the culture.
I firmly believe that it is better for her to see how things work in the real world than it is to be at home with a stranger. Of course, she needs time to rest and play at home and to be read to and to run around. But it's also good to see how to talk to adults and how professionals work.
I think that bringing a child to any kind of social interaction depends on how much attention the child needs, and how much attention you or the group you are going with are able to provide. And how easy it is to find something else to do with them.
When I was ten, I started going to feminist demos (for the Equal Rights Amendment and legalizing abortion) with my mother, by my own choice. I carried signs and knew what they meant? Did my parents' liberalism influence me? Of course. Kids learn their parents' values. But nobody made me go to those (later) demos and my politics haven't changed substantially since then.
I was (and am) proud that my parents had the guts to stand up and fight for what they believed in, and that they gave me good examples.
I still go to demos. I don't have kids and don't plan on it but, if I did...well...I wouldn't give a three year old a sign (no matter what it said) but I'd sure as heck teach the kids my values and, when they were old enough to express opinions, if they wanted to go to demos with me, they'd be welcome.
if you re-read my earlier post, I didn't say "never take kids to a protest", I just mentioned there's better ways to expose kids to free expression of ideas (ie. books with multiple viewpoints)
I also didn't say "never teach your kids values". NEITHER DID SHELDON!
What Sheldon was objecting to was having kids hold signs expressing viewpoints on something they don't yet understand the complexities of! (ie,. foreign policy, economics, etc, etc)
Also, this paragraph from your earlier post
I made them. I feed them. I make the rules, and if I say so, they are holding that goddamned sign. End of story. Argue with me, pal, and I'm taking away the TV for the rest of the day! I also bought them T-shirts that say Viva la Evolution! although they have not really had much to say about their beliefs on that subject. Too bad. They can just suck it up and wear them.
This goes WAY BEYOND just the mere teaching of values! Real teaching of values comes with discussion of ideas. What you are expressing is "I am always right because I made you and feed you, so too bad!" That's not teaching values, that's using intimidation and guilt trips to squelch any slight disagreements!
That wrorks well before kids reach puberty, but after that, it will come with an extreme backlash!
do this one, if you would:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43103096@N00/3035715575/
i think this is an incredibly dismissive post. it makes me sad and angry that most people at the protests i've attended are 60 and up. my generation is conspicuously absent. protecting children from politics is not making vigilant citizens. that thing you said, about everyone growing up? totally true. we should really think about putting something in their sphere of experience besides dirt and elmo, nay horsie?
after all, that kid might actually turn to her mom one day and ask her why the hell they're out there. and wouldn't that be awesome to witness?
it's always the lame comedians, NEVER the funny ones, who resort to "you're missing your sense of humor"
Though I have to admit, it's harder to sense the tone of voice when it's on written word, whereas it's easier to sense the tone of voice from spoken word!
Back when my niece and nephew were six and four, they told me--all big eyes--"Bill Clinton is Satan."
At the time, I thought "what chance do these kids have of growing up to be thinking adults?"
My niece has surprised me by challenging her parents on everything from religion to politics (I know, what a shock a teenager challenging her parents--but I mean 'intellectually challenging' them.)
My nephew has gone the opposite--embracing the more whacked-out views of the religious right. So I guess 'indoctrination' is one-for-two for their parents.
Loved the post--keep 'em coming!
By the way -- who gets to decide what "being a kid" entails?
By the way -- who gets to decide what "being a kid" entails?
It takes no courage to haul kids to a protest where there isn't the slightest likelihood that the situation will turn violent. That says a lot about the subject of the protest in general and who the protesters are opposing: that the targets of their protests are non-violent and not about to impose their will by force, and that the protest is against something that the society has largely accepted and assimilated. Even if there is some discomfort in society at large about, in your example, abortions, police are not rushing out to attack protesters with clubs--unlike protests about unionization, the world economy, environmental degradation and ownership of natural resources. This tells me that these protests are pretty much a non-issue for most of society.
Thank you for this, Sheldon. Even if one a-hole protester parent reads this and gets the message then I think you've done well. Now what about parents who let their children watch adult cartoons and then file a lawsuit because little-baby-junior-son-of-a-bitch starts quoting Peter Griffin?
AngryMom said I "came here to name-call & insult"? Actually, I came here to read an interesting blog, and expressed disagreement with a post!
Have fun protesting the trolls!