The Galavanting Scrivener

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sheller53

sheller53
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Birthday
January 31
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Adventurer, Writer, Puddle-Jumper
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The Great, Big, Wide World
Bio
I'm an adventurer who loves all things words, but am not against good cheese, chocolate, and wine, either. If I'm not trying to figure out a way to stay dry while biking in the rain, I'm usually trying to find a way to get above the rain clouds and into the mountains.

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OCTOBER 22, 2009 5:08PM

Etiquette Schmetiquette

Rate: 12 Flag

In the past few months of wedding planning, I've come across many a etiquette-centric quandary, and none so far-fetched as the formidable task of wedding-envelope addressing.  Don't get me wrong: I love a good tradition as much as any other bride-to-be out there, but when my fiancé and I recently started the task of addressing our wedding envolopes, we mutually decided that some traditions--etiquette-based and otherwise--have run their courses and need, respectfully, to be put to rest, even at the risk of rolling Emily Post over in her grave.

The following is one such tradition that I'm in favor of offing.  In addressing envolopes this morning, my fiancé and I had a wedding-envelope-addressing conundrum: one of his aunts is a doctor and her husband isn't.  I assumed that, according to what I thought was the proper etiquette, her name would automatically go first, followed by his name, since she held the title of "Doctor".  A quick trip to the website of Crane and Co. -- the Cadillac of stationary -- almost sent me to my grave.  Carefully read the following envelope-addressing rules, taken directly from Crane and Co.'s website:

In Which Man Is a Doctor   

Doctor and Mrs. Troy Clayton    

 

In Which Both Are Doctors

Doctor and Mrs. Troy Claytonor                                                                            

or                                                                         

The Doctors Claytonor, or

Doctor Christine Clayton
and Doctor Troy Clayton    

 

In Which Woman Is a Doctor 

Mr. and Mrs. Troy Clayton

or

Doctor Christine Clayton
and Mr. Troy Clayton

Source: http://www.crane.com/etiquette.aspx?C=WeddingEtiquette&S=Addressing_Envelopes&I=Married_Couples
   

I'm no bra-burning feminist, but I am a feminist in the Merriam-Webster-definition sense of being someone whose beliefs support the "theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes."  And if etiquette isn't a social phenomenon, I don't know what is.  In fact, Crane and Co. has an "essence of etiquette" explanation on its website, with the following indroductory words:

"Etiquette can be defined as the body of rules of social conduct that tells us what our society considers appropriate and acceptable behavior...The etiquette that we follow when sending a letter or invitation, like etiquette in other areas, revolves around three basic building blocks: Common sense, courtesy, and usage.  Etiquette's foundation is common sense."

Source: http://www.crane.com/etiquette.aspx?C=StationeryEtiquette&S=The+Essence+of+Etiquette

Why, if the husband is a doctor and the wife is not, the only etiquette-based adressing choice is  "Doctor and Mrs. [man's first name] [man's last name]," whereas if the woman is a doctor (or a judge, for that matter) and her husband is not, etiquette says that you may still choose to address the envelope, "Mr. and Mrs. [man's first name][man's last name]," not indicating the woman's hard-earned doctor status at all?  Where's the common sense in this (among other equally confusing etiquette-dictated addressing rules)?

Perhaps I'm overreacting a bit or my current flu-like state has pushed me over the top, but in any case, after my near heart attack, I proudly listed my fiancé's aunt's "Doctor" status and name first, followed by her husband's name.  Maybe one day my idealism will fade or die or get squished by a 16-wheeler-sized dose of reality, but until then, I'm going to live in a world where female doctors will be addressed as such when invited to weddings.  And my sincerest apologies to Emily Post...make that Mrs. Edwin Post...I mean Mrs. Emily Price Post.  Oh, I give up.

            

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Good job. Keep it up! You could perhaps use: "Dr. Cheryl Rachel Bloom, M.D. & Spouse." ---or, if you like the man, perhaps inlcude his first name: Dr. Cheryl Rachel Bloom, M.D. & Robert.
Etiquette never fails to amuse and entertain. My own doctor is married to the local rabbi, and she kept her maiden name; we solved the issue years ago by addressing envelopes to them (her first name) (her last name) and (his first name) (his last name) and family (no titles). Imagine how they do it with people like Bill and Hillary.

Even crazier, the inside of Christmas cards gets signed/printed (woman's first name) and (man's first name) (joint last name). I kicked against this one the first year I was married, then caved into convention.

I once worked for a doctor who was married to a doctor. Again, we always addressed envelopes first and last names only (she kept her maiden name), no titles, or Dr. and Mrs. (his first name) (his last name).

These conventions change over time, eventually.
Oh, give it a rest and go with tradition because there is no non-clumsy way to resolve this. Go with "Christine and Troy Clayton" and to hell with being overly formal. I doubt that your fiance calls his aunt "Doctor Aunt". Or call the aunt and tell her your quandry and ask how she would prefer to be addressed. I guess I'm just old. I would use Dr. Christine and Mr. Troy Clayton. My daughter is in the middle of planning a wedding and I guarantee you that this is one pickle that won't be going up her butt.
I'm impressed that you're actually sending your invitation through the mail -- I'm surprised that you're not emailing them.
To a certain extent I want to offer you the smelling salts and the fainting couch.
But, these conventions DO come up, and your solution is admirable, as is your attention to the etiquette.
I always like the wedding invitations that say: "Hey! We're Gettin' Hitched!" and then have the card you mail back saying :attending, :not attending. Or, in the words of my friend Johnny Wisconsin: Johnny Wisconsin will be getting shithoused at your wedding. (Not mine.) But he did, in a really fun way.

I hope you have a beautiful day! Have a lot of food left out after the whole thing for the Johnny Wisconsin's at your event.
As a calligrapher who addresses all kinds of invitations as a part-time job, please believe me when I tell you that-- based on my clients' preferences over the last few years--most of the "official" addressing etiquette has gone the way of wedding dresses with sleeves. While there might be a few who still prefer the "traditional" (i.e. sexist) mode, others eschew any kind of honorific--just names. Most people, though, settle for something in between.
Excellent post - a rant delivered with what etiquette should be, instead of the thing it purports to me. That is, direct,and with equality for all.
My son's med school (MPH) project in Congo involved a Dr. married to a Dr., so he solved it by calling the woman, "Mrs. Dr. Smith," whenever he talked about her or addressed her. Cool. Done.

IMHO, it'd be so much better if the women kept their maiden names (and identities, duh). Congrats on the wedding! Rated for confusing old traditions!
We addressed our invitations to J. Smith on one line and M. Smith on the second line (absolutely no titles) and varied whether we put the female first or the male first. We don't like a lot of the etiquette issues that titles bring up either. I didn't use to pay much attention to it until I was in the hospital at UCLA. There is a huge bronze plaque in one of the buildings, I think it's 100 Medical Plaza. Anyhow, it's listing all these women who donated hours of time to UCLA and most of them are "Mrs. John Smith". I thought, "Geez, if I donated MY time, I certainly wouldn't want the plaque to honor MY HUSBAND."

Do whatever you want. Experience shows that people will get offended at any number of things you do at your wedding so trying to please everyone won't work!!! Good luck!
These traditions really do change with time. My mother told me that after she got married, she received a letter addressed to "Mrs. Jane Smith"; ie her first name, followed by husband's last name... and was insulted because it *wasn't* "Mrs. John Smith". As if the letter writer didn't accept that she was really married. It's hard to imagine a bride today miffed because she'd been addressed by any part of her own name, but that's how my mother felt. At my kids' school, there was a married couple, both PhDs, both teachers, shared last name. The students couldn't use first names to disambiguate them (would have been too informal) so they got referred to as Dr. and Mrs. Dr. in everyday conversation. The Mr. Dr. has since retired, so I think Mrs. Dr. is now called just Dr.
Right on sista! That's what I would have done also. Etiquette is, in many cases, too outdated to be taken seriously or followed to the letter anymore. I wonder why no white gloves and party manners lady of recent years has attempted to update the standards of etiquette?
To me the sexist convention is Mrs John Smith. Mrs. Smith I get, but why Mrs. John Smith? I'd say go with Mrs/Dr Jane Smith and Mr. John Smith or Mr/Dr and Mrs/Dr Smith.

I use my maiden name, but I totally get someone who'd rather write Mr. and Mrs. than two last names, but if they're not economizing on writer's cramp, why not use my real name?

The other thing that pisses me off is that my oddball ethnic name is not always recognized as a woman's name. The standard is that if you don't know, use Mr.

A boss once told me this when I had a secretarial type position and I pointed out that this kind of thinking really offended me, whereas I never got offended by Dear Firstname Lastname with no title.

Now, I'm richer and I can tell you nothing rings more hollow than garbage about how valued I am as a customer and what personalized care the firm is offering if it is addressed to Mr. Me, particularly if the firm should have my sex in some database.