Out of My Mind

The Musings of a Woman Who Thinks Too Much

Nelle Engoron

Nelle Engoron
Location
California,
Birthday
May 01
Bio
My Season 5 "Mad Men" commentary is on Salon.com rather than here (see my last blog post). *****My e-book, "Mad Men Unmasked: Decoding Season 4," is now available on Amazon! ***** I'm a writer/editor/consultant who lives in the SF Bay Area. I write about all kinds of things, but am particularly intrigued by movies, relationships, gender issues and "Mad Men." (Scroll down the left sidebar for links to what I've published elsewhere as well as a selection of my blog posts.) I'm writing a novel about religious and romantic obsession and have completed a memoir, "Seeking," about my (successful) quest for love, which included personal ad dates with 200 men. Email me at "Nelle@NelleEngorondotcom" Amazon author page at: amazon.com/author/nelleengoron

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AUGUST 8, 2009 12:30PM

California Dreaming: Haunted by the Manson Family

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Sharon Tate

 A pregnant Sharon Tate, not long before she died.

 

40 years ago today, a horrific crime occurred that continues to have reverberations beyond the personal tragedy that it brought to the victims and their families.

Writers such as Joan Didion have identified the night of August 8, 1969 as the moment the 60’s died – when the spirit of the era, far from continuing to blossom and grow in the next decade, came crashing down in a symbolic execution.  

August 8th was the night that a small group of the usually peace-and-love-seeking hippies, led by one of the era’s famously charismatic leaders, and fueled by the celebrated stimulants of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll, set out not to end a war or shake up established institutions but to commit two nights of senseless slaughter that shocked America.

Afterward, many would no longer see hippies, psychotropic drugs, communes and charismatic leaders as exciting manifestations of a new and more enlightened age, but instead as potential destroyers of innocent lives.  The worm was in the apple, and cynicism, fear and suspicion had returned after a few years of enthusiastic belief that the world could be changed for the better.  Now it was not just the middle-aged parents who saw danger, but also the children about to step into that bright new world.

I was 11 years old on August 6th, 1969, when my family moved into our new house in San Clemente, then a sleepy little beach town 70 miles south of where Sharon Tate and six others were about to die.  We had just relocated from the East Coast, and were still in shock at how different life was in California.  It wasn’t just the beautiful weather (no more choking summer heat and humidity), or the nearby Pacific that we could swim in every day as if on permanent vacation, or the utterly alien architecture (houses on stilts set on lots that seemed the size of a blanket compared to our East Coast neighborhoods), or the lack of trees and grassy yards, but the completely different culture.

In many ways, the late 60’s never seemed to reach the East Coast, with life still resembling an episode of Mad Men even in mid-1969.  Yet here in California, the 60’s were not only in full bloom, but about to drop off the vine.  We’d moved 3,000 miles but we’d also changed eras, moving years ahead in cultural time, into a nearly alien place.

Just how alien became clear only a few days after we moved in, when we were greeted by this screaming headline from the Los Angeles Times thrown into our driveway that morning:

 

'RITUALISTIC SLAYINGS'
Sharon Tate, Four Others Murdered

Film star Sharon Tate, another woman and three men were found slain Saturday, their bodies scattered around a Benedict Canyon estate in what police said resembled a ritualistic mass murder.



I don’t recall my parents’ reaction, but my 16-year-old sister and I both wondered, “What kind of place are we living in?”  

Apparently it was a place where bizarre and brutal murders occurred with such regularity that another happened the following night at the LaBianca home:

SECOND RITUAL KILLINGS HERE
Los Feliz Couple Found Slain; Link to 5-Way Murder Seen
Second Suspect Hunted in Five Murders in Benedict Canyon

A Los Feliz couple were found slain Sunday night under bizarre circumstances that police said may connect the crime with the weird ritual murder of actress Sharon Tate and four others in Benedict Canyon.


This correct connection was soon disdained by cops who were sure the Tate murders were a Hollywood drug deal gone bad, and who thus made no progress in solving the crime until they lucked into a jailhouse confession that Susan Atkins made to a bunk-mate.

While the months between the crimes and the Atkins confession had filled most Southern Californians with a constant and lurking fear that unknown killers might strike anywhere at any moment, the arrests and resolution of the mystery only brought fresh horror.

I’d always imagined murderers as dark hulking men like the criminals who appeared on TV or in movies.  But aside from Tex Watson, all of the killers were female. (While the instigator of the murders, Manson did not physically kill any of the seven victims.)  After months of imagining the maniacs who could have committed such heinous murders, they turned out to be young, long-haired women who resembled my teenage sister.  

manson girls

 

Like most children, I’d always been warned to avoid sinister male strangers, but this was a danger that was almost impossible to comprehend:  Girls like the ones I saw every day might come one night to kill me.

After that shock came a worse one, in the details of the crime. Atkins’ grand jury testimony (which she later recanted) was printed in the L.A. Times and her matter-of-fact account of how the victims were slain was unbearably grisly and yet too mesmerizing not to read.  As she recounted her killing of Tate, who begged to be allowed to live long enough to have her soon-to-be born child, Atkins mentioned being tempted to cut the baby out of Tate’s womb and take it to raise, since the Manson “family” held children to be innocent and even sacred beings.

Reading this in the Times, my pounding heart seemed to stop for a moment.  I was a child!  So they wouldn’t kill me if they came to our house.  It was a small comfort, but I grasped at it.  I had to grasp at something, because for months now I had lain in my bed, scared to fall asleep lest killers creep into my ground floor bedroom window and stab me dozens of times.  Knowing the crime had been solved and that the murderers were in prison did no good – most of Manson’s “family” was still at liberty, not having been involved in the killings (one, Squeaky Fromme, would famously go on to try to kill President Ford, and, ironically enough, is being released from prison this very week).   

The danger was still out there, but now it had faces, frighteningly familiar ones hiding behind innocent facades, and their actions seemed more inexplicable and thus terrifying than ever.  These people killed for reasons that were utterly obscure, paranoid and capricious, and therefore the only logical conclusion was that we were all at risk, all the time.  

The long, nearly circus-like trial (the “trial of the century” of its time) brought no relief, instead putting the murders in daily headlines and conversation for months and prompting new worries (my mother was convinced that Manson would hypnotize the jury into finding them all innocent, and her oft-voiced opinion – which I was too young to question -- ratcheted up my anxiety).

Finally, a year and a half after the murders, the trial was over, the news turned to other subjects and so did the conversation of the adults around me.  I wish I could say that my childish terror died then, but something had sunk into my psyche that I’ve never been able to shake entirely.  For 40 years, I’ve continued to be haunted by the Manson family.

I can’t stay in a new place, especially an isolated house, without feeling that a band of strangers might break in at any time and murder everyone. When I lived alone, I chose apartments that felt secure to me, but still maintained an unconscious vigilance that made me a notoriously light sleeper.  Only since living with K. have I begun to relax that vigilance, no longer waking if he gets in and out of bed at night, or if the cat jumps on me.

My greatest fear has always been to wake up and find a stranger standing over me.  Of course, this is the worst fear of many women, especially those of us who’ve lived alone.  But it’s not just thieves or rapists I imagine breaking in, but crazy killers who will torment and terrify me before I die, as they did Sharon Tate, who had to witness everyone else being killed before she was slain.

As crazy and irrational as these fears of mine are, what happened to her and the other victims was literally unimaginable, beyond anyone's worst nightmares.  Sharon Tate was happily pregnant and thought that her home was a safe place that she would soon bring her newborn baby back to. She went to sleep utterly unaware that the unthinkable was about to happen, that she would wake to find a killer hovering over her, in the guise of a seemingly harmless young woman.

Sometimes I can’t help but imagine what it was like to be in that house on Cielo Drive that night, of what it would be like to go from a peaceful evening with friends to having violent strangers burst in and commit unspeakable acts.  One minute you are living your life, and the next minute it is taken from you, in a manner that you couldn’t possibly have foreseen or prevented.

But while the specter of the Manson family haunts me, I long ago realized that they are just a symbol that my mind latches onto.  What I really fear is something far less exotic:  The simple fact that I can only control so much of my life, much less my death.  I realized that at eleven years old, as I read the L.A. Times one summer morning.

It’s a realization that can be put to good use, if I let it, reminding me to value every moment, and to focus on what is truly important in life.

And what is truly important?  Always the same answer comes back:  Love.  The killers in our minds can only defeat us if we do not love.


I write this as I sit on my deck, on a beautiful August day in California, the state that I still love.

 

 

 

 


Dedicated to the memory of those who died 40 years ago:  

Steven Parent,
Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, Wojciech Frykowski,  Sharon Tate, Leno LaBianca, Rosemary LaBianca.

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I love when personal memoir and historical events intertwine to create a story like this. It's not surprising that those events made such an indelible impact on you. Eleven is an age that, especially for a girl, is so "in between" in so many ways, and trying to deal with such a horrific aspect of the "adult" world has to be extremely difficult.

After Manson, there was Altamont, and then Kent State, and the whole dream was really over.
This was an incredible read, Silk. I remember being mesmerized by the whole thing too (I was 9) but nowhere near California. "Helter Skelter" was a must read that followed. You tap into everything with this though:

"And what is truly important? Always the same answer comes back: Love. The killers in our minds can only defeat us if we do not love."

How very true. Thank you for honoring the memory of all those who were murdered 40 years ago (I think that astounds me more than anything...so many years ago.....!)
Thank, Jeanette!! I also love when memoir and history combine. I'm not sure I've really combined both here effectively. I feel like I'd do better if I worked on this over a longer period of time and digested it more. But I wanted to post it today so went with what i had.

This post actually feels very exposing to me -- I have never really spelled out how much this event affected me before. My sister and I have talked about it now and then, but it's always seemed like a crazy irrational fear I had from childhood and I've felt embarassed about it.

But writing this post was cathartic and also enlightening -- as often happens, writing led to me understanding things better. e.g., the part about how disturbing it was that young women were the killers. Before sitting down to write this, I'd kind of forgotten how shocking that was when it came out. We're used to thinking of the "Manson girls" now and also more women have committed public crimes (although mostly of the domestic variety). But it really was utterly shocking at the time -- that these ordinary young women from "good families" (as the media always says) were swayed to not just kill, but kill so viciously. I realized as I wrote this that that was a significant part of what shook me, upending everything I'd so far learned about human nature as a child.

As I figure out the elements of why this event sunk in so deeply, it doesn't seem so strange that it left its mark on me.
Cartouche, you slipped in as I was writing that response to Jeanette. Thanks! You know, it's funny because I've talked to people around my age who lived in other parts of the country and they really didn't register this crime much. Which surprised me as it was such a huge national story. But absolutely the closer you were to it, the more it affected you. People in So Cal really did think mysterious killers were on the loose -- well, actually mysterious killers were on the loose! and no one knew where they might strike next.
I was living alone with a small son when the murders occurred and I remember those events so well. You've taken this awful time and tied it into your life so beautifully, in great memoir form. Really well done, Silk.
I remember in great detail August 8, 1969. That same year the greatest example of the hippy movement also happened. I was fourteen years old and felt a part of me become confused on my hippy ways and what transpired. I became obsessed with the entire situation for a long time because of what you said, it really did take a wonderful moment in history and paint it black.
Thanks
Rated
This was really well done. I was also in CA, and the mother of a 2 yr. old. Frightening times, and yes, many things died along with the victims...I think we all were victimized by the trauma and horrific nature of the crimes.
This is really wonderful, on every level. I'm so glad I read it, I'm so glad you wrote it! I am Reddit'ing and Digg'ing it!

The murders had a profound effect on me as well. I remember nothing about the trial itself, but read the book by Vincent Bugliosi. Like you, I have been haunted ever since. For decades I harbored the fear that strangers would come into my house and kill everyone. I had night terrors until I was a freshman in college, where I finally found some surcease because my dorm room was simply too small for such fears to come to life.

I would have happily slept in a prison cell for most of my high school years, so real did these fears become in the dark lonely watches of the night. I'd lie there listening to the sounds of the house - was that the sound of whispered voices?There - what was that? Was that the sound of silverware shifting as they opened the drawer and selected knives? Was that the hushed sound of their feet on the shag carpeting in the hall? Did a shadow just flit by my door?

I always slept with my door open. I couldn't bear the thought of sitting up in bed and watching the door knob turn - I wanted to see who/what was coming. My nightmares were always the same - that the killers would slip past my room and I'd hear them killing my parents and sister -- and I'd hear my brother, downstairs, screaming in pain. Then a man would enter my room, a man with long hair and a beard. I'd sit up in bed, my back against the wall and he'd stab me in the stomach with a knife I recognized from the kitchen. He'd be really casual about it, and smiling.

I am a light sleeper - I wake repeatedly during the night, and almost always think, if only fleetingly, of this old nightmare/fear.

Great essay.
This always strikes an uneasy chord with me, one of those that travels down your spine, and I almost shudder.

I was eight years old then...living with my rather large family in Chatsworth, in the San Fernando Valley. My brother and his friends used to go horseback riding at Spahn Ranch, no doubt running into Manson and his harem over and over again. We lived maybe ten miles from there.

Afterwards I remember reading about how they practiced by going into people's houses while they were there, and still awake, and creeepy-crawling (I think that's the name they gave it) around the house without being detected. Our home could have easily been one of those they practiced on, but we'll never know.

Charles Manson is a true sociopath, but he has something....charisma, or whatever you want to call it - that thing that makes you listen to what he says, even when you know it's all a self-serving, chaotic mess. He's a scary, scary individual.
a powerful connection of personal memoir to public memory

I read "Helter Skelter", as I'd read accounts of the Nazi war crimes when I was a teenager, to try to incorporate into my map of the world an understanding of pure evil, it's still a mystery to me where it comes from, but there seems to be a lot of it out there
A memoir that I couldn't stop reading. Living on the west coast of Canada, this story was huge news. I was, and am, fascinated by true crime stories and have read as much as I've been able to find about this case. And yes, I was a hippie, but at no time did I ever identify with the Manson cult. It did make me more aware that not all hippies were peace and freedom loving. Not by a long shot.
Wow, the richness of people's responses here overwhelms me! I had no idea how people would react to this post, and it's gratifying to get responses like yours, although I'm sorry to hear so many other people have been as "haunted" as I have! Still, it makes me feel less alone and "strange."

Lea, thanks! I wonder where you were living? Did you feel more vulnerable since you were a single mom?

Mical, your "paint it black" reference is great! (Wish I'd thought of that. Writer's envy.) Absolutely what that crime did, as well as other incidents in that era like Altamont (which I think came later).

Buffy, another Californian. And I think you live or did live in So Cal, too? The epicenter of fear....

Sandra, your lengthy comment absolutely knocked me out. There are times I feel like you are my doppelganger (and just so you don't think I'm too weird, there are lots of times when I know how different we are). Your description of what you felt, thought and did is very close to my experience. I also had the horrible fear specifically of being stabbed in the stomach and I used to sleep with both my hands on it for just that reason. I don't know what I thought this would do, but in early adolescence, I couldn't fall asleep without doing that. Your descriptions of what you thought you heard in your house are dead-on for my own fears as a teenager after those murders. And who knew shag carpeting could be so evil?? Well, yes, it always seemed evil, but somehow it's implicated in a way that makes no sense. It's all part of the swirling mass of anxiety and fear from that era.

I have actually chosen never to read Bugliosi's book. I felt like I was haunted enough by the crime in the first place (from reading the newspaper and watching the TV news while it was all going on) and I also had a friend who read Helter Skelter in high school when it came out and said she couldn't sleep for weeks afterward, and I knew that would be me, too, so I've never picked it up. But I did watch the TV miniseries they made of it, which was probably just as creepy and haunting. Steve Railsback was a very effective Manson (so much so it ruined his budding career).

Charity, your experience is beyond creepy! my god. You know, I didn't know about the "creepy crawly" thing until just a few years ago, and thank god I didn't. I had the same thought you did, wondering how many homes they broke into and that those people were not murdered by some grace of god. I did hear they always rearrranged some things in the house (e.g. turned stuff upside down) to mess with the heads of the residents when they woke up the next AM, so if nothing like that ever happened, perhaps they didn't visit you. I wondered how it would be, though, when it came out that they did that and people thought back and realized in that era someone did do that to their house and belatedly realized they'd been visited by the Manson family.

Roy, I know what you mean about trying to understand evil acts. As I read and watch a fair bit of stuff about the Holocaust, and for basically that reason. I have a lot of reactions to that material, including profound grief and horror, but I don't tend to feel afraid, whereas the whole Manson thing provokes fear. I assume because it happened so close to where we lived and it was plausible that something similar could happen to our family, whereas the Holocaust was about history and felt distant and somehow "safe" even though my father's side of the family is Jewish and suffered persecution for it. (A tale for another post sometime.)
Emma, you slipped in while I was answering all those other comments - thanks. It's very interesting to hear how this affected people beyond California, and even the US!
You and I must have been twins separated at birth (somehow perhaps a decade or more apart!). I read Helter Skelter when I was 21 and the well written recount (I think it is still the #1 bestselling crime book) was graphic and terrifying. Reading that book about that terrible night and the night for the LaBiancas, was nightmarish. Your excellent post described so well the terror that took over me when reading that book. When I hear about the Manson murders even now, it brings back that rush of feeling and years of thinking about those murders. I love that you bring us, as your readers, back to the reality of what is really important in our lives, and that is Love. I'm glad you ended with that...it will help keep the dark thoughts at bay.
One thing I remember vividly from the book - before killing the LaBiancas, the Manson Family would sneak in their house at night, while they were out (but sometimes, while they were *still there*) and play a game they called Creepy Crawly. They'd prowl around the dark house and move objects, or remove minor ones, and then sneak back out.

Clearly they were rehearsing the murder...but it was especially hideous to contemplate that they were having *fun* doing this, and were reveling in their power over a couple whose impending deaths they already knew about it. It is simultaneously terrifying and sad. And forever after reading about that, I often awake at night to a sound, just some sound, and immediately think about people playing Creepy Crawly, long-haired people with knives clenched in their teeth.

it seems we are having, with this post and comment thread, a mutual effect on one another!
FDR's "nothing to fear" speech is always in season. Courage is essential, though difficult. I wish I could buy it online. It's often hard to accept that we can only control so much, which is very little. Until the unknown catches us at unawares, let's love. It's the best antidote to fear and to everything else that brings us down. Excellent post.
Steve, what an excellent coda for this essay - this is the sort of post-and-response that I most love about OS.
What a great, evocative post.
There's been some interesting stuff in the print media this year - including the girl who testified against them (she got immunity). She has been living a pretty dark and isolated life, but agreed to be interviewed for the "anniversary".
It's so chilling. I was a little bit obsessed by the Manson murders, but then my friend was murdered and all that stuff became way too real. That's a post I need to write! Thanks for giving OS a chance to collectively remember what it seems to be impossible to forget, Silkstone.
MaryT, I think we have to be triplets since Sandra feels the same! I'm glad you liked the ending. I wasn't sure about it, but it is the logical turn of the circle from these morbid thoughts.

Steve chimed in with a similar thought. Oh, yes, Steve, if only I could buy courage online somewhere. I've always related to the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz. Thanks for your nice words.
And agree with Sandra - it's great when we can have something like a conversation here in comments, esp on weighty stuff like this.

Sandra, Charity mentioned their creepy-crawling in people's houses in comments as well. They actually went into the LaBianca house itself before the murders? I had never heard that - only that Manson chose the house because he'd once been to a party next door.

The Tate house of course had more of a connection, since record producer Terry Melcher had lived there and Manson thought Melcher had dissed him on his musical ambitions. I knew that but was stunned some years ago when I read Candace Bergen's (excellent) autobio, "Knock Wood" that at the time she was living with Melcher, and so if they hadn't moved out, it would have been her rather than Tate who died.
Aim, you slipped in - thanks! I can see how knowing an actual murder victim would change your perspective on all this. I'm sorry you lost someone close to you in that brutal way.
Silkstone: some beautiful writing here that reminds me of why I have the same nightmares that you do and what they can teach me.

denese
Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme just got paroled. She wasn't directly involved with the "Tate" or "LaBianca" murders, but she became the unofficial leader of the Manson Family after Manson was incarcerated. She was jailed for trying to kill former President Gerald Ford. I do not understand how a parole board could release someone with her history.
I grew up in Northern California. I was only 6 when these occurred, so I don't remember them, but they are so much apart of my cultural history, with all the events that followed. Well written, I enjoyed it. Except I shouldn't have read it right before bed!
Excellent memoir and meditation on how something like this affects the psychology of the rest of our lives. Altho Charlie wasn't the first thrill-kill cult, he woke us up to the spooky notion (and possibilities) inherit in motiveless murders, suburban sadism, and home invasion. Worse, these victims did not live alone. There is not, actually, safety in numbers.

I see a straight (if dotted) line between Manson and 9/11--stupid mystics and their wholesale slaughter of people unknown to them, on the basis of a laughable, reptillian eschatology. Bin Ladin gets out of the Koran what Manson got out of the White Album: the same message, the same call to shed blood, out of white noise.
You are one damn amazing writer Silk. This event happened two years before I was born but impacted many afterwards. My mother worked as a telephone operator in Canada and one night had to try and place a call to Charles Manson from some "fan". Of course the call never made it to Manson and she's not sure if the message, "I think you're wonderful Charles" was ever relayed from the guard to Manson.

Anyway, a great blending of history and personal essay that was a joy to read. Rated again and again.
Denese, thanks! and making sense of our nightmares is always a good thing. Those dark thoughts always mean something.

Willie, I'm really shocked that Fromme is getting released, too! I can't believe you can try to kill a President and ever see freedom again. And she doesn't sound like she's necessarily "normalized" in the 30 years she's been in prison. It will be very interesting to see what she does after being released.

Sweetfeet, hope I didn't disturb your sleep too much! I confess I had trouble falling asleep last nite, myself. Writing and this and discussing it here stirred things up a bit.

Scoubi - interesting connections! I just read something yesterday that I never had before -- which is that Manson was influenced by Scientology! ( this in an article related to the anniversary of the killings) His former followers said he had 3 sources for what he told them: the Bible, Scientology, and the Beatles. I didn't even know Scientology was around back then!

GJI, you flatter me. I love that. Seriously, that's very creepy about the phone calls. Some of the anniversary articles I've read have noted that Manson is a cult figure that a lot of kids seem to admire (wear on t-shirts etc) and that it's assumed they don't really get what he did -- not just instigating murders but his control of many young people and ruining their lives as a result.
This made me feel like I was in California in the 1960's! Well done! I only became acquainted with Charles Manson on television (I'm 27), and he was older with his infamous tattoo on his forehead. Every time I see him on TV, I'm torn whether or not to watch it. I usually do, and I can't figure out if it is curiosity or if I think I will be able to see something in him that will protect me from people like him. The railroad killer was the one that haunted my childhood near coal mines in Kentucky. Living in fear like that as a child is a very scary thing indeed.
wow! I am breathless!
Silk, this is an extraordinary piece, powerfully personal yet set in a historical context. I'm glad to see that you've gotten such meaningful feedback. I was 15 and living in Germany and I remember the Tate murders well. Shocking and horrifying. As someone who ponders existential matters more than I probably should, I agree that the only way to integrate these childhood traumas is to surrender to our essential lack of control and--as you say--live, and love, in the moment. Random violence or acts of nature occur for no reason. And they might happen to us today or not for decades or never. Carpe diem. Easier said than done, but I don't really see any other way to cope with uncertainty and powerlessness. Keep writing! Your stories are profound and universal.
Nice that this post still is attracting some comments!

Natalie, the railroad killer is very intriguing sounding! I wonder if you might write about that some time (I can testify that writing about this stuff is cathartic!)

Love1lee, thanks! that's a great compliment to get.

Deborah, i really appreciate your encouragement. You know how it is -- you write stuff here, esp personal stuff like this, and you have no idea how anyone's going to take it. It's like opening up your journal and wondering if people are going to be bored or embarrassed for you, or something like that. So it truly means everything to me when people tell me they enjoy my writing here, and that it resonates with them in some way.

And now I'm off to carpe my diem!
I read thisw over the weekend on my Kindle (on which I can't comment or rate). I was chilled. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your very personal side of the whole Manson story ... so often stories like that just take on a life of their own and the impact they have on countless souls is forgotten. Incredible piece. Thank you.
I was still young when the Manson family became infamous. Being young and on the east coast, it was just a blurb on the news. Many years later, after having developed a fascination with serial killers like David Berkowitz and Zodiac, I started down the rocky path of the Manson family murders. I had hoped by reading about it that I would understand what gave Charlie the power he had over Susan Atkins, Linda Kasabian, Tex Watson, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel. What I learned was that there really was evil in the world, that vampires and werewolves and goblins were no match for the real monsters whose psychopathology was totally beyond comprehension.
Charlie's total domination over the family to the point where he could overcome their inhibitions so completely as to command them to commit murder marked the end of an era of innocence. Oddly enough, though it has been a very long time since I stopped reading about these kinds of crimes, I find Manson's story comes back to me so easily. I don't fear Charlie, as he is the devil you know. My greatest fear is the devil we don't know about, the one whose bootheels are clacking down the road right now.

Marvelously written, Silkstone. The best revenge we can ever have against the monsters is to love and to hope.
Great to get some more comments on this piece - -thanks to you both!

Bill, I have a real complicated relationship with the idea of "evil" (which could fill at least an entire blog post) but basically I tend to not use that word about people, because I think it makes them something other than human, when I think the real horror is that these are ordinary human beings who somehow have become so disturbed that they can do things to others that are unimaginable to most of us.

I think labeling people as "evil" or "monsters" can cause us to overlook dangers not just in others but in ourselves. I think there's potential for violence in far more people than we like to think. It sounds like this is a point you are making, too, at the end of your comment, about the Charlies we don't yet know about. There are always more, and it's impossible to say where they'll appear or why. That's the true terror, to me.
I think there's potential for violence in far more people than we like to think. It sounds like this is a point you are making, too, at the end of your comment

Yes, exactly. I guess it would have been better if I had left out those words, but people have this caricature of evil in their heads - the horned devil with cloven feet and a pitchfork - that I wanted to dispel. Evil can be the guy in front of you getting coffee, or the lady with three kids in tow. You just never know where it is.

Anyway, don't mean to detract from your post. You immersed me in your past, and it brought back a little of my own. For that, you deserve more than just an EP, you deserve congratulations. :-D
Thanks, Bill, for responding! I thought we probably were more in agreement than not - and your clarifying your view confirms that. And you didn't detract from my post at all! I appreciated your comments and insight. And thanks for your kind words.
I listened to John Waters on Fresh Air the other night - being interviewed about his upcoming (?) book of essays, one of which is about his friendship with Leslie Van Houten. It's an interesting interview. L. Van Houten is up for parole.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111585116 -

I think people should be paroled based on the rules that apply to everyone else. It seems wrong to imprison someone way over the amount of time served for less sensational murders. She's served 40 years, is by all means of objective analysis rehabilitated, and she served her time.
She has consistently refused interview requests, doesn't open "fan mail", and has refused to talk about it publicly because she doesn't want to be seen as anything but a murderer.
I guess I think she has paid her price to society.
I'll check back to see how everyone else thinks!
It's an interesting interview, as John Waters admits that he fanned the flames of cult status for the Manson gang, and he apologizes somewhat, in a squirmy way.
A journalist on KNX radio (LA's CBS affiliate) recently recounted how a friend had been at the La Bianca house the night before the murders, and had left a purse or something there. She planned to go and pick it up, but he and his wife persuaded her to come to dinner with them instead. Fortunately they were having a good time, and she didn't go round there that night. He later reported on the trial, and the thought his friend might have been another victim was obviously very much on his mind.
Aim, I read some but not all of Waters' blogs this past week. I was glad he took responsibility for helping glamorize (or de-horricize) the Manson family and the murders. Rather late, but OK. That anyone who has a brain in their head (and Waters has plenty) could think the murders were funny or entertaining or to be celebrated as a rebellious act or whatever is beyond my comprehension. But at least he's grown up and apologized.

I don't agree with paroling Van Houten or any of the others, though. In fact, they all were sentenced to death and then it was changed to life because the death penalty was abolished in Calif after their trial for many years. So you could better argue that once the death penalty was re-established, their executions should have gone forward. (I don't support capital punishment, but just talking legally and about making their punishments "fair" to what they were sentenced to.)

They were never, ever intended to be paroled! If the "life without possibility of parole" had been a sentencing option at the time, that's what they all would have gotten, and this argument would not exist. But at that time the equivalent sentence was to be put to death.

I don't think it's about whether they might kill again (I can't believe any of the women would; Manson's a wild card) but whether they "deserve" parole. IMO, they don't. It was not an ordinary murder, and they were not ordinary defendants and they weren't given any sort of sentence that was to include the possibility of parole.

GeeBee, that's a very chilling story!! I have heard about the folks who were supposed to be at the Tate house that nite (her sister etc) but not at the LaBiancas. It makes me think of Ron Goldman, who had the bad luck to show up the nite OJ wanted to kill his ex-wife. Life can turn on a dime.
I guess I agree AND disagree! For me, it's more the argument that L. Van Houten deserves a chance at parole based on the standard of justice that exists. Many people get paroled based on time served. I think she deserves to be judged by an equal standard, not based on the sensastional aspects of her crime.
It's probably better NOT to grant her parole because she would be hunted upon release - not in retribution, but by all the sick and morbid people who want to feel a part of the Manson "family".

And I agree that they got lucky escaping the death penalty, so the rule of law could be "hey, feel lucky it's not retroactive."
I'm confused, I guess, and I appreciate being able to express it here and have great responses.
I don't care what happens to her - just as long as the rules are applied to everyone equally.
I would be interested in reading her writings about the 40 years she has spent in suffering. I don't need to know anything more about the murders. She seems like the one "member" who might have something pertinent to say about regret and sorrow and abject pain over her vile actions.
Thanks for discussing, Silkstone!
Aim, you're welcome! I'm happy to discuss it openly and with give and take, too.

I think the argument that "other murderers have been paroled for less time served" is very tricky. I'm not aware of other people involved in MASS murders who have been paroled. It's possible, but I think that most paroled murderers killed one person, and even then not all murders are equal depending on the circumstances. There are no real comparables for this.

I know Van Houten only stabbed one person, but she was willingly involved in a larger scheme, and talks openly about how happy (at the time) she was to be included and regretful she didn't get to go to the Tate house the first nite. Atkins and Krenwinkel have even less to argue for them, having killed multiple people. Most importantly, you have the example of Linda Kasabian, who was at the Tate house and not only refused to participate but tried initially to distract them and stop the killing, so horrified was she by what was unfolding. Not even all members of "the family" were willing to do what these women did not just willingly, but with absolute glee. (And they continued to be happy about their actions for years afterward in prison, by their own admission.)

I also think that, again, they have not served out their sentences -- they were sentenced to give up their lives for their crimes. When execution was no longer legal, then the only way to give up their lives was to spend them behind bars, no parole. So that's what they're doing.

Their arguments for "compassionate release" are enormously offensive when you consider how "compassionately" they treated their victims, who were not only murdered, but terrified beforehand, watched their friends and loved ones killed, and were themselves mutilated both before and after death. It was not just a murder -- it was a massacre. And the circumstances of a murder do matter very much in sentencing, to this day. Torturing people increases the severity of the crime, as do other acts. There's no question in my mind that's what they did.