Out of My Mind

The Musings of a Woman Who Thinks Too Much

Nelle Engoron

Nelle Engoron
Location
California,
Birthday
May 01
Bio
My Season 5 "Mad Men" commentary is on Salon.com rather than here (see my last blog post). *****My e-book, "Mad Men Unmasked: Decoding Season 4," is now available on Amazon! ***** I'm a writer/editor/consultant who lives in the SF Bay Area. I write about all kinds of things, but am particularly intrigued by movies, relationships, gender issues and "Mad Men." (Scroll down the left sidebar for links to what I've published elsewhere as well as a selection of my blog posts.) I'm writing a novel about religious and romantic obsession and have completed a memoir, "Seeking," about my (successful) quest for love, which included personal ad dates with 200 men. Email me at "Nelle@NelleEngorondotcom" Amazon author page at: amazon.com/author/nelleengoron

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DECEMBER 10, 2009 1:22PM

You Might Be A Lesbian -- And Not Know It!

Rate: 72 Flag

 

shh

(Photo by me)

 

The answer to Freud’s famous question, “What do women want?” increasingly seems to be:  Not even women know.

Last week, actress Meredith Baxter, best known as über-mom Elyse Keaton on the 1980’s sitcom “Family Ties,” came out on “The Today Show,” telling Matt Lauer that after three marriages and five children (now all adults) she finally realized she was a lesbian after she fell in love with a woman. In a statement that I've heard from other women who’ve discovered their true sexuality in mid-life, Baxter said that being with her partner, Nancy Locke, made the difficulties she'd always experienced with men suddenly become clear.  “I thought I was just a bad picker,” she told Lauer in explaining how she’d made sense of her failed heterosexual relationships.

And indeed she was. For 30-plus years, she was picking partners of the entirely wrong gender.

As a straight woman whose own sexual desires have been achingly clear since adolescence, I find this phenomenon downright puzzling. How can someone reach midlife without knowing that they're attracted to a different gender than the one they've been shagging all that time?

Mind you, I'm not talking about feeling the need to be closeted in a society that still heaps discrimination and even hatred on homosexuality -- that's perfectly understandable. But some people are apparently so distanced from their own sexual desire that they don't even suspect what it is until some lovely lesbian comes along and ignites their libido.

I say "lesbian" because the people who experience these kinds of later-in-life epiphanies almost always seem to be women. While the number of men who are closeted or fighting their same-sex desires may be legion, most gay men seem to have not only figured out but acted on their desires by a fairly young age. Resist it they may, deny it some must, but feel it and act on it, they do, even if only intermittently and furtively. It's the women who seem to be clueless as to what they want.

But it may not just be the lesbians who have that problem. As Baxter was coming out last week, a New York Times Magazine article was coincidentally describing "Women Who Want to Want” -- women who wish to experience sexual desire but don’t, and the scientists who are searching for an answer to their quest. Not surprisingly, the pharmaceutical industry is panting to find a drug that would spark female desire, since it would be a multi-billion dollar goldmine (even if women didn't want the drug, men would be slipping it into their yogurt).

However, what the (mostly female) researchers are finding is that for women, desire does not generally precede but instead follows sexual behavior. Women often don’t feel much desire until sexual activity begins, and many may never feel it in the abstract. Like the old saying that “when you don't know what to write, you should just start writing,” for women it seems to be true that if you aren’t in the mood for sex, the best remedy is to just start having it. Desire tends to proceed from action for women, rather than from mere thought or visual stimuli as it does for men. For both genders, desire and arousal may be so closely linked as to be nearly inseparable, but, unlike men, most women need actual physical stimulation to register either. (As other research has shown, even when their genitals say they’re aroused, women often will report feeling no desire at all.)

Which may explain why women like Baxter can't even imagine wanting sex with a woman until they actually try it, or at least are in the presence of a woman who really turns the key in their lock. Over the years, I’ve encountered other women who’ve had that same nearly instantaneous discovery of their true sexuality after a lifetime with no clue that they were attracted to their own gender.

Famous examples of this phenomenon include the actress Cynthia Nixon, who also fell in love with a woman after leading an otherwise heterosexual life, and of course Anne Heche, although she subsequently reneged on her “conversion.”  To be fair, Heche resisted defining herself as a lesbian, instead saying she fell in love with a person, Ellen DeGeneres, who happened to be a woman. The fact that her previous and subsequent relationships have been with men suggests that she was accurately describing her desires. It also raises the interesting question of whether women's sexuality is more fluid than men's, or at least more tied to relationship than gender, since I've witnessed other instances of "I'm straight but I fell in love with a person who just happened to be my same gender" -- but they've all occurred with women.  Straight men don't suddenly fall in love with another man and make an "exception" to their sexual preference for him.

But it’s not just famous people who have epiphanies about their sexuality. A female friend of mine attributed her lifelong sexual difficulties to having been molested, and struggled with the issue when single as well as throughout a 20-year marriage before suddenly and unexpectedly falling in love with a lesbian in her 40’s. Echoing Thelma’s immortal line, “I finally know what all the fuss is about,” she excitedly reported having gone from disinterest in sex to having a baker’s dozen of orgasms the first weekend with her new lover.

A male friend had a similar experience with his wife, who to his frustration (and self-recrimination) never enjoyed sex until she unexpectedly became involved with a woman a few years after their divorce. She too had attributed her problems to having been molested, only to have them evaporate once she started having sex with women.

These two anecdotes point to one possible reason that women may be distanced from their desires:  Women are far more likely to have experienced sexual assault than men are, and often at a young age. And the perpetrators of sexual assault (on both genders) are generally men. That can trigger an understandable mistrust and discomfort with the very gender that girls are raised to think they should be attracted to, as well as conflicted feelings about the act of sex itself. When sexual difficulties occur, they have an all-too-ready explanation: They think it’s their history, when in fact it may be geography. If the body touching theirs had a different topography, perhaps they would respond differently.

For every woman like Baxter, there are probably several who haven’t yet put their finger on the problem, much less on another woman. Years ago, a male friend brought a woman to a party I was throwing who I would have sworn was a lesbian – except that I knew they were in love and about to move in together. I brushed off my feeling until several of the other guests casually asked me, “So, who’s the lesbian with Sam?” – including a lesbian friend who asked me if she was available. I thought perhaps she was bisexual, but delicate questioning afterward revealed that the possibility hadn’t ever crossed either her or Sam’s mind. I still have no idea whether we were all stereotyping or whether we sensed something she didn’t yet know about herself, but over the years, I’ve met a number of other ostensibly straight (usually married) women who triggered the same question, and late-in-life realizations like Baxter's make me wonder how many women may be walking around unaware of their own desires.

With men, the issue seems somewhat different. I once worked with an executive who everyone pegged as gay, except that he’d been married for 25 years and had several children. After the last one left home, he revealed that for many years he’d had a male lover in nearby San Francisco who he was leaving his shocked wife for. “Secret life” scenarios like this occur not infrequently, but they always seem to involve men. By contrast, women often hide their desires not from their families or communities, but from themselves. And if women don’t know what they really want, how are they ever going to get it?

In her interview with Lauer, Baxter makes a confession that any woman who feels dissatisfied with her partner may wish to consider: “I was involved with people who made me think they were the problem -- because there were problems with the people I chose. So it never occurred to me to think, ‘Oh, it’s me.’”

Which raises an interesting question that could be applied to any one of us:  What don’t I know about myself that may be keeping me from having what I really want?  

Beyond what others can see that we fail to, there are the internal truths that only we can perceive about ourselves, if we’re willing to do so. We all at times push away thoughts and desires because they challenge our comfortable existence and would require us to define or declare ourselves differently, or to do the hard work of decisively pursuing our dreams.  When it comes to intimate relationships, if you aren’t happy, it’s all too easy to blame your partner – after all, they’re human and offer any number of failings for you to pin the donkey’s tail on.  Like Meredith Baxter, we may continue to indulge this blame for decades without ever considering our own actions.  Yet all too often the problem lies within us – and even when it doesn’t, the solution does.

All it takes is honestly answering two questions: “What do I really want?” and “What am I willing to do to get that?” and then acting on them.

 

 

 

(I wrote at some length about the second NYT article I linked above in my post "What Makes Women Hot?  Uh, Everything, It Seems."  The Advocate has a good interview with Baxter here.)

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this reminds me of adrienne rich's idea of mandatory heterosexuality....

great essay. it's a lot to think about.
Great analysis on women and their sexuality and what the heck is going on. My own sister is gay even though she is sexually attracted to men. But she chooses women for the emotional connections. Ach. To each their own.
Really great piece, Silky. I was puzzled by Baxter too. How do you not know? But, then you lay it out in regards to how women are aroused. If some women aren't aroused until the exact moment, she wouldn't have looked at another woman and felt an attraction towards her. Interesting take.
Very well written essay, but I beg to differ on a few points. There is a 'rainbow' of homosexuality, not just plain lesbians and gays. There are different degrees of it. Some people fall in love with the same sex, or are sexually attracted to a woman (in this case) simply because they may be a) bisexual b) there just attracted.

My spouse (I'm Canadian) has two adult children and was married for 20 years. He was emotionless and disinterested in the family. She then found a woman (not me) who gave a damn about what she was about and who she was. She fell in love. The sex followed.

In our case, the sex came first. We couldn't keep our hands off each other, and the love came later.

There are too many variations on a theme to postulate why and how - there are probably hundreds.
Freud never asked that question. I believe it was Reich, and he definitely thought that he knew the answer. I will have to check on whether I am a lesbian and get back to you. Rated.
Madcelt, beat me to it! :) LOL

This is one reason why I think we need to get away from labels and boxes. People are what they are. :)

Great piece.
@BOKO - Was will das Weib?
Translation: What does a woman want? (Freud)
"All it takes is honestly answering two questions: “What do I really want?” and “What am I willing to do to get that?” and then acting on them."

These two questions would resolve issues not just about our sexual natures, but virtually every other personal issue about which we are unhappy, dissatisfied or confused. A clearheaded and thorough look at the problem of human cluelessness.
Dolores, thanks! I think I read that Rich essay eons ago. probably bears re-reading.

Deborah, I have a female friend who is bisexual and I think equally attracted to both genders but has for a long time preferred relationships with women for emotional reasons. I also had a bi boyfriend once who said he could happily have sex with both genders but only fell in love with women. So that kind of split isn't unusual!

Julie, thanks! I think the research about women's sexual response makes all this more comprehensible...at least for me it does.

Madcelt, as my response to Deborah above may indicate, I have (and have had) many friends, relatives and co-workers all over the sexual spectrum. So I'm well aware there aren't just 2 or 3 flavors of sexuality! For this essay, I kept it simple and I also respected how people self-identified: Baxter didn't say she was bi, she said she was a lesbian. etc.

Boko, hopefully Grif is right. I always have heard it attributed to Freud.

Lady, I'm not fond of labels, either. Hopefully we are getting slowly away from them, both sexually and racially.
Monsieur, thank you. Yes, I think those 2 questions point the way to personal happiness because they require taking responsibility for it and acting vs wishing (or complaining or blaming). I did want to suggest that more general application, so thanks for picking up on it.
I have come to the conclusion in mid-life (I'll be 50 next year) that people of both genders are capable of all kinds of difficult-to-understand behavior, much of which is rooted in a failure to know one's self. I like Heche's idea that one can fall in love with a person, irrespective of the person's gender.

Great post.
Well we know what men want, right? r
Chaucer got it right in The Wife of Bath's Tale in his Canterbury Tales: "Women want to be able to choose for themselves."
I'd know. That's largely because I know myself and am a failure at self-deception, if I wasn't I'd be able to trick myself into thinking rice cakes taste like chocolate cake.

At times I think we need to remove gender/sex from sexuality, at least when you are looking on sex-within-a-relationship context. In that case it becomes about the emotion/attraction, not the genitalia. I know a lot of women who dabble at being lesbians, but aren't actually lesbians or even bisexual for that matter. They are just sexual dilettantes.
I am this woman. I've given up trying to explain to people why/how I didn't know. I'll just say that this sentence, and I've heard and read the same before, strikes me: "As a straight woman whose own sexual desires have been achingly clear since adolescence, I find this phenomenon downright puzzling."

I can't imagine knowing, in an achingly clear way, or any other way, since adolescence. I believe the experience exists, and I trust those of you who have it, but, it puzzles me as much as my life experience puzzles you.
Something else for Jim to worry about...

This is a fascinating subject, though, and I think it illustrates just how little we really know about attraction, desire and sexuality.
Thoughtful, thought-provoking, and well said. I love the last line: "All it takes is honestly answering two questions: 'What do I really want?' and 'What am I willing to do to get that?' and then acting on them." As Monsieur pointed out, those are good questions to ask ourselves, and not only in regard to sexuality. Rated.
Great, thought-provoking piece. The whole desire thing, as you lay it out, is fascinating and has opened my mind to a whole new perception. Women do seem to be more fluid with their sexuality but maybe that is because for some reason lesbians are not judged as harshly as gay men. A lot to think about here--I'm going back to read all the links now!
I have a friend who had a boyfriend in high school, fell in love with a woman in college, had a second lesbian relationship after breaking up with her first girlfriend, then went back to dating men. When we were discussing it, she said she never really felt like a lesbian but felt forced to self-identify as one after getting involved with her first girlfriend, who was very into identity politics. Her second relationship with a woman was almost sexless and yet she stuck it out for five years because having chosen a "team," she felt she had to commit to it for life. Today she's happily married to a man and has a child.

Just putting that story out there to say that there may be a lot of social factors come into play in these "conversion" stories. There's a lot of research that indicates women have a fluid sexual response and even "straight" women will get turned on by lesbian porn. I don't think it's a good idea to put people into narrowly defined boxes.
excellent writing; very interesting subject!
What a rich and fascinating post. I totally understand Baxter and I'm glad she's finally happy.

"By contrast, women often hide their desires not from their families or communities, but from themselves."

I can't speak for the majority of women, but I know that my role as a female was well-defined and I knew that I didn't fit it. I was also told that as a Christian, I was not allowed to have any impure sexual thoughts. So I've spent most of my adult life trying to figure out what I like and what I don't like.

I also think (and many may disagree) that many women are bisexual. They can be attracted to both sexes. So, I totally understand why women many realize that they like women late in life if they had never "tried it" before.

Rated for self-realization. It is a good thing. Oh, and really fantastic writing here.
Speaking only for myself...

...I KNOW I am not a lesbian!
Thanks for the thoughtful piece. I understand how it's puzzling, but I think the whole realizing late in life that you want a different gender stems from the issue of not knowing what you want in a deeper sense. I think that people who are out of touch with what they want in general will often experience that same confusion when it comes to their sexuality--since sexuality is often a sort of microcosm of a person's larger desires.
Is it possible that a factor in women discovering their gay preference later in life is that they are post-menopausal? By no means am I suggesting this is the ONLY reason. Just one factor along the spectrum of experiences. This would help explain why this later in life discovery is not as prominent in men.
I just cut to the chase and look at the shoes...
I have known many gay men and women, who could finally get in touch with their orientation, in later years. Apparently, they typically have pushed away any thoughts than come along regarding those feelings, and simply go into denial toward themselves. Also, being a famous actress, I can well imagine the denial ran large, in an effort to present her image to the world.

I am happy for Meredith, that at last she is living truthfully and happily. xox
"What do I really want?" and "What am I willing to do to get it?" are excellent, pointed/pointing questions and they also have fluid answers. At one time the answer to the first question was Children, and any Sacrifice was the answer. Now the answer to the first question is Freedom, but the second question is complicated by children (grown, but still dependent on parenting). Maybe some people have One Answer (one hometown, one dream, one career, one committed relationship) and others of us are always looking for What do I want Now?

Thought-provoking post. Thanks. (Also, great picture -- is there a story? Is she a Deity?)
wow, I just took a look at my comment, and it very poorly structured! Sorry! xox
Lonnie, thanks! Yes, midlife is humbling, isn't it? you realize so much of what you thought was certain is far from it.

OE, I always think of Elayne Boosler's line about what men want in relationships: "To be really really close...to someone who leaves them alone."

Geezer, yes! Like that old story about sovereignty. Still true.

Surly, yes, I've heard grumblings from lesbians about sexual dilettantes like that. it's not fun to be someone's "experiment" -- unless you're just experimenting, too.

Bike, thanks!

Wakingup, I really appreciated your comment! It's great to hear the other side. I wouldn't have imagined that it would be so hard to understand what clarity feels like. That helps me understand.

Jeanette, ha! And I think you're right that we actually know very little. The NYT pieces I linked above are really fascinating for showing how women's sexuality is really only starting to be explored, and what answers are emerging almost generate more puzzlement, not less.

Susan, thanks!

Karin, I've heard that theory before. I think in some ways, it is easier for women to be fluid in their sexuality. I think both men and women, though, have suffered terribly at the hands of homophobia. But definitely it feels like that line in behavior can be more hazy for women and they're not judged so harshly as men are for oozing over it a bit.

AR, I've known women like you describe. Did you know there's a term "LUG" which means "Lesbian until graduation"? It describes women who are with other women in college and then "move on" to men, marriage, etc. Interestingly, it seems like the old British public school system used to promote a lot of GUG's on the male side, at least from tales I've read of men who were in them in the earlier parts of the 20th ce.

Connie, thanks!

Gwendolyn, Thanks! I'm not sure if most women are bisexual although I think a lot more are than straight people tend to assume. I think there are so many reasons we may not feel or act in regards to sex as we could and religion is a biggie. My own theory is that we've never really seen completely free female sexuality (even now, even in the US or other western countries) and so we really don't know what it would be like.

Frank, I never doubted that.

Caroline, I think you're right about it being part of a larger pattern. A lot of people are very detached from their feelings.

Icarus, that's interesting. Can you say more about why you think that might be? are you thinking it has to do with no longer having the reproductive urge?

Leepin, I'm afraid you might guess wrong with me. I'm straighter than my shoes would suggest.

Robin, I've known an awful lot of gay men, but not one who had a tale like Baxter's or the other women I've known who had a sudden and complete realization in midlife about their sexuality. The men all said they knew they were gay, often even before puberty, and had also acted on it to some degree in their lives, even if they also married women, had kids, etc. It was about being closeted, and also to some degree in denial (thinking they could "overcome" their desires) but they knew they had those desires - -and the women didn't. I really think there's some kind of gender split there, and the reasons for it may be varied and complex, from biology to social conditioning around sex.
This was a fascinating read and makes so much sense. I couldn't understand why Meredith Baxter didn't realize she preferred women, but your excellent analysis has answered my questions. P. S. I will definitely buy your book when it comes out.
Good post. Lots to think about and ponder, but here's what I've got so far:

I think a lot of it has to do with the roles that are designated to women from a very early age. The may differ to some degree but all of them involve "men" and "babies". I also think, as MadCelt mentioned, that it has a lot to do with where you fall on the Kensey Scale. If you are a 6 -8 you might be better able to self-delude to the point that you don't act upon your needs. However, for a couple of 10+'ers like my spouse and I it was pretty easy (she knew for sure at puberty and I "just felt really weird" till I met her during my first year of college.)
I think, in many cases, it's not so much a question of women (in mid-life) "discovering" that they're lesbians, but feeling free to act on the the same-sex attractions that they've had (along with attractions to men) all along. I suspect that some of this might have to do with women developing closer same-sex friendships in mid-life, because that's a stage of life when mens' and womens' experiences tend to diverge more. I know that, for the last few years, my woman friends have become more and more important to me, because they have similar mid-life issues and experiences. They get me in a way that men just don't, anymore. But of course I've also always known I was bisexual, so the attraction that's inherenent in some (no, not all) of those friendships has not come as a surprise. And yes, there is one special woman in my life now...after the last 15 years exclusively with men.
i've worked in show business for fourty years. What I see is a acceptance that people stay with the people they get along with and have common interests with. Sexuality in that community has been replaceded with loving support and tolerance.

A person on the road with someone develops a relationship that can be very close so compatability is the driving factor. In the case of MBB if she wasn't married to someone in the business the common bond and understanding wouldn't not there. You could say there's no one to talk to about the focus of your life.

For the moment her best match is a woman, that might change. The key is the rainbow must include straight and gay relationships because everyone is capable of anything based on compatibility.

Sex is not a major factor, emotional fulfilment is. To discuss sex rather than relationship reduces humanity from caring, to who you like to fuck and should blondes fuck blondes. Hardly what the focus of a relationship should be and very much like racism.
"Desire tends to proceed from action for women, rather than from mere thought or visual stimuli as it does for men."

Huh?!? I'm sorry but that has to be the single most bizarre assertion about female sexuality I have ever encountered. It is belied by my own experience, the experience of women around me and the experience of women communicated in literature, the media, etc.

What are often elaborate romantic daydreams/fantasies if not a form of "thought" that both reflects and leads to desire? What about the need for romance and intimacy most women need before intercourse? The last thing in the world I want is a man or women to just start f@#king me (and I use that word because that is pretty much what you say women need).

I am sure what you write may reflect very specific experiences, such as the effect of sexual abuse you narrow in on. But you provide no evidence whatsoever on your description as a general phenomenon.
Bull. I am not a lesbian and I know it.
Lisa, thanks! Can I pre-bill you? ;)

Safebet, I agree that where you fall in the spectrum of sexual preference probably plays a large role and being in the middle could lead to more confusion.

Eva, "acting on a same-sex attraction they've had all along" is not what I'm discussing here, though. I'm discussing women like Baxter (and ones I've known) who say they had no desire for women until getting involved with one. I don't think that she or other women are being coy or deceptive when they say this -- and there's no reason for them to do so (and if you listen to and read the 2 Baxter interviews I linked, I think you'll get how frank she is being about that). I think that's the aspect that is fascinating here, not delaying acting on desires one has had for a long time, which isn't that strange.

Wschanz, actually at least one of Baxter's husbands (the "Birney" in her former hyphenated name) was an actor. And certainly shared professions can lead to divorce as well, as the many show biz break ups we hear about prove! But I think you make a good point that for all of us, partnering is about a lot more than sex, and companionship is a big chunk of it for most of us. But most of us do partner with the gender we like to have sex with, too!

Ms. Anthropia, I'm not talking about my own personal experience. I'm paraphrasing what the two articles I linked above describe has been discovered with some fairly intensive research in recent years on women's sexual response. It happens that much of what they say also seems true to me -- less for myself (I have had a very active fantasy life, myself) than for most women I've known and talked to about this. I suggest that you read both of those articles (esp the 2nd) if you want to see the "evidence". But just to correct what you're suggesting my paraphrase said, I said physical contact, not intercourse, seems to be necessary for most women to feel desire. We're talking foreplay, not someone jumping on you as you suggest. In other words, if you ask a woman if she wants to have sex, she might not feel desire for it. But caress her neck, nibble on her ears, stroke her hair, kiss her tenderly....she may feel she does. Surely that makes sense?
thats all great but where does tiger woods fit in this continuum??
:p
There may be a generational aspect to this as well. I had an aunt who everyone in the family was convinced was a lesbian. However, in her time and place, there was no respectable option for being a lesbian. So she had intense friendships with women and was phobic about the idea of sex with men. Had she been born 60 years later and in another country, she might have had a framework to consider that she was not a straight woman who hated sex, but a woman who needed another woman. Very thought-provoking piece.
Yet another insightful post Silkstone. You have the knack.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Kinsey. I'd read some of his stuff way back when but it got jumbled up with tons of other stuff I'd read since. The movie was a great refresher. There's a lot of truth in his 6+ point scale and it's not hard to imagine how someone in the mixed ranges might think of themselves as hetero for decades. After all, even in these relatively liberated times, it's not like the societal incentives for identifying as gay approach the benefits of hetero identification.

Gore Vidal has also written (eloquently as always) on the prevalence, acknowledged or not, of some element of sexual ambiguity in one's orientation.

Back on Kinsey though, my favorite segment was the one where person after person would say, "I like X, is that normal?". The point being of course that sexual normality has as much to do with real sexual attitudes as the frictionless surface has to do with the world we live in. It probably a less useful concept too.
I think men don't tend to exhibit these behaviors as much as women do because of social conditioning. It's more acceptable for a woman to love another woman - men find it hot! because, you know, the women are doing it for the men, of course - than it is for a man to love another man - which men tend to find threatening, just like they find trans women threatening (or lesbians, after all - when the lesbian isn't attractive to them, or when it's clear the lesbian has no interest in their sexual arousal).

Okay, okay. I'm painting with too broad a brush, and plenty of men are quite open to lots of different people and things. But still, I think it's social pressure and social conditioning that allows women to explore their feelings of sexual attraction to other women, but doesn't allow men to. And it's a shame, really. If straight men weren't so oppressed by macho culture, some of them might find that they're much happier with other men than with women, whether that means they're gay, bisexual, or just open to falling in love with a person, rather than a gender.
Silkstone

This is a wonderful post, not only well-written but also thoughtful and sensitive.

Your timing is eerie though. Recently I've been giving serious thought to my feelings for women. I've known for a number of years that I am attracted to men and women and that I enjoy sex with both. But I always assumed that I would only really be comfortable if I were in a long-term emotionally committed relationship with a man. Recently I've come to doubt that assumption.

As for lables; I don't feel straight, gay or bisexual. I just feel like me.
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hi. good editorial but you're missing a big part of this puzzle re: why women "shut down" sexually when with men...
men are generally (not all, but most) are selfish, boorish, and boringly one dimensional when it comes to the sex act itself. when society dictates who "normal" women should be attracted to and then they actually become involved in a relationship with men (who generally learn most of their sexual cues from male-dominated, boringly one dimensional porn - in western society anyways), you'll get women who are not overly interested in sex.
yes, all men are not like this, but if you combine this with the other issues you mentioned, it makes for a society of women who are many times, just shutting down and letting him have his "way" in the sex act itself...not overly exciting for women. and hence, leads to a life of just letting it happen, just to get it over with and move on to their own daily "to do" list.
but with women, the situation is completely different - we are not interested so much in the "end point" but have sex in a fluid, non-demanding way that emphasizes observing what our lover wants and then actually doing it (rather than ignoring it or refusing to do it, as all of my male lovers have done).
now, that doesn't mean that i cannot love a man or that men are incapable of satisfying a woman sexually; it's just that there are so few who actually do simply because it gives the women they love real pleasure (i've certainly not met any up to this point - age 42).
i know this is a contentious idea, especially for men (and some women), but it's definitely my experience as well as many women i've known over the years (and i've lived in places from coast to coast in the u.s.). and if it's so seemingly common, then maybe there is something to it, but like many uncomfortable truths, it remains the big elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss.
just a thought....
CS
Excellent piece Silkstone!
You bring up some very good facts and also use your own life experiences of human observation.

Speaking for myself, I had two marriages, one child and boyfriends over the years. At 36 I took some golf lessons and fell for my instructor. It was like "Oh shit, why do I feel like this every time I see her?" Nothing ever happened except that I felt like a missing piece of my puzzle finally fit and I was the last to know (much like the lady at the party with Sam I imagine.)

So without ever having a physical experience I just knew. Then I felt like I had the keys to the kingdom but still couldn't find the door!

It has been quite a journey and along the way I have lost family (both of my sisters) and friends.

I hope that Meredith continues to live her live honestly and openly. The path is not always clear but well worth the discovery.
I know a number of women who married and even had kids and then later in life fell in love with women. I don't even try and explain it. I think women, like men, try to do what is "acceptable" even if it doesn't feel right. Until they can no longer sacrifice themselves. The only problem is that sometimes innocent bystanders get hurt. Nice piece.
This is a fascinating and well-considered analysis. I know a young woman who was brutally raped. She is a lesbian, and I always wondered if that event had any bearing on her sexual orientation, and wondered, as well, if it was silly to think such a thing since we are all told that you are born homosexual or heterosexual -- the nature vs. nurture thing. To think otherwise carries some potentially politically incorrect consequences. After all, if one's emotional experiences and psychological makeup play an important role in sexual orientation, then perhaps those evangelicals who attempt to "convert" homosexuals to a heterosexual lifestyle aren't so ridiculous as we think. If you aren't necessarily born that way, then life experiences can influence or determine your orientation.

What your essay suggests is that human sexuality, at least among women, is much more complex than the simple maxim "I was born that way" would imply. That's something to think about.
An incredibly intelligent, comprehensive piece. Truly.
Beautifully and clearly written. It's given me lots to think about.
The wonderful thing about living to middle age is that all those things you once stressed over don't matter anymore -- the person you are has a greater opportunity to emerge.

Great article -- sucked me in, pissed me off and left me feeling pretty good about myself.
Very thoughtful post.

I thought of another aspect you might consider. Women are raised to attract and service men. What they may want out of the arrangment was never seriously considered until rather recently. Fred's "What Does a Woman Want?" proceeds from the fact that to his way of thinking (which was that of every middle-and-upper-class male of his time) teh notion that women whould "want" anything was off the charts. Woen were supposed to be wives and mothers -- or whores. In both insyances it was the man who counted, not them. Feminism, in all its historical manifestations, was a declaration of desire as much as it was of rights. But finding one's true desires is no simple taks for men -- no matter where they might be on the Kinsey scale.
@ bikepsychobabble;

Really?
Did you get a phone#?

I just had to.lol
I am a forty-something woman who has identified as lesbian since high school. I've never slept with a man, never had a romantic relationship with a man beyond a few dates. The last of those dates was sometime in the mid-eighties.

I have had a series of relationships with women of varying intensity and duration, including three long-term, living together simulated marriages. They all failed. I've thought that I must be a bad picker, a not very good girlfriend, or possibly carrying around a voodoo curse.

It's never occurred to me... could it be possible... that I am really straight?!?
vzn, this is the only sex that Tiger hasn't been involved in recently.

Tomreed, I had that same thought and was kind of playing with it in my title -- shades of Jeff Foxworthy. Cho's a good choice to run with it!

Sirenita, great observation! I think every family has an aunt or other older relative like that. (Well, at least they did in our generation) I had an uncle who never married who I wondered about later on, but I think most gay men in those generations went ahead and married anyway, but some women like your aunt didn't, especially once women could work and support themselves. Which was better than marrying and hating your husband!

Abra, thanks! I enjoy writing these sorts of pieces, and it's always a pleasure to have people enjoy reading them. I'm not that familiar with Kinsey so enjoyed the movie for its overview of his work and life. I know there are many criticisms of his work and research methods but overall he did a great service in getting sexual research rolling in a non-judgmental way. And the famous scale, while arbitrary, is a very useful symbol to suggest the spectrum of sexual desire, which was fairly radical at the time, I believe.

Gourmet Goddess, other people have suggested that it's easier for women to slide towards same sex relationships and as I said in a comment above, I think there's some truth to that. But given that, it makes it even odder in a way that women would not feel this desire until later in life, doesn't it? And the counterpoint is that I've always heard that a higher percentage of men are gay than the percentage of women who are lesbians. I don't have any stats to back that up but I recall hearing that any number of times over the years. That would suggest that it may be less acceptable for women to be out -- although it could also suggest other things, such as their sexuality is more fluid and/or they go with "the norm" often, including to have the socially acceptable marriage with kids.

Ishtar, thanks! And I'm glad to hear that you are following your desires. I have a friend who is mostly with women now, but had many serious relationships with men in the past, and she resists being labeled as well. And interestingly, she's found that lesbians are as likely to want to label her as straight people. But who really wants to be a label, anyway??

Cocoa, I can't agree with what you say here. I haven't slept with the majority of men in the US but see no evidence that they are as you describe. From my own experience and what I've heard from many women friends over the years, most men are actually quite eager to please women sexually, even if they need some input on how to do that. I do agree that there is a general gender split in that women may be more process oriented and men more goal oriented, and it shows up in sex. But I've been with enough men who were process oriented about sex to know that's far from absolute, either!

Ladyfarmer, thanks! And thank you for sharing your personal experience. Your comment first made me laugh (that it was your golf instructor) and then tear up (at your losing family). I can't comprehend why so many families still shun their gay relatives. I mean, Jesus, almost without exception people stand behind their family members who have murdered someone but you love your own gender and you get ostracized?? It just blows my mind. And I'm so sorry you have gone through that -- I can only imagine how intensely painful it must be. I'm glad that you have found your way to living your life the way that feels true to you, and I hope some day your family respects and accepts that.

Lisa, I think you're dead-on that most people do what's socially acceptable, especially when they're younger (but many for their entire lives). It can definitely take until mid-life to throw off those expectations and start living the way you want.

Procopius, thanks! But I think the complicating factor to your theory is the estimate that 1 in 3 women will experience sexual assault in their lives. Yet far fewer than a third of women are lesbians. and honestly, I think the 1 in 3 stat is low -- virtually every woman I've ever been friends with has experienced at least attempted sexual assault (include molestation as a child) and many actually were assaulted. I think it's more common than not in women's experience. Yet most women are straight.

Beth, Aim and Ted: thanks!

Skel, ha! I consider that a great compliment (your response). thanks.

JKB, that's very interesting... I think many of us go through something similar with careers, too. And other things in our lives. That's why I like that people took my ending questions to be more general, which was my unstated intent. It always bears asking what we want and if we want it enough to do what it takes to get there.

David, thanks. And can I just say that I loved your calling Freud "Fred". I personally am going to think of him as Fred from now on. Seriously, you bring up a great point! Yes, it was a very radical notion in Freud's time to even raise the question of women's desire, in any form. We have to give old Fred credit for that.
Aspasia, sorry, I missed answering your comment earlier because it slipped in while I was composing one of those long responses. The pic is of some artwork I saw in a museum in Brussels. I actually don't know the story of what it is. Looking thru all my digital pix, I just thought it was a cool one to put with this post. I also liked your comment, which ties to what David said, that it was a radical notion until fairly recently for women to even consider what their desires for their lives were - -and I think many women still struggle with that, esp (as you note) if they have children.
Here's my theory of sexuality: We are all sexual beings. Now imagine a bell-shaped curve. A few of us are absolutely heterosexual, and could not be excited by a same-sex partner. A few of us are homosexual, and could not be excited by an opposite sex partner. But the vast majority under the big bell hump are ambivalent. Just want to get laid. And the fact that 90 pct or more choose heterosexuality is all cultural. In the absence of such heavy cultural pressure, most of us would screw anybody we could get. And the big cultural pressure is absolutely understandable as a highly adaptive species survival matter.
Goldstar, anything's possible! Maybe you could give it a whirl with a few guys and see what you think?
Way to compartmentalize.

Meredith Baxter's experience is not really all that far from someone who, after the breakup, in all sincerity tells their former partner that they never really loved them, or after having fallen deeply in love, declares that they have never loved anyone before, despite clear evidence to the contrary. At most this suggests that she has been suppressing her bisexual tendencies, or has not met the right woman to fall in love with before. Having a single homosexual relationship does not make one completely gay, any more than having multiple marriages and failed relationships does.

You may not think you are speaking to your own experience, but you are certainly not speaking to mine. I have spoken to dozens of men who have had the same feelings and voiced the same opinion - that when they were younger and married, they had no same sex desires, but now they no longer desire women. I can't say I have ever heard one declare himself retroactively gay, though. For most of them, it is more of a feeling of having somehow changed from being straight to being gay.
For me it came down to a simple fact; when I spent my time and energy trying to please everyone but myself I was with men. When I realized that it was up to me to please myself I fell in love with a woman and have never looked back. I was conditioned to constantly make sure I was "good enough" and the way I knew that we are is by accumulating all sorts of external "proof", the ginormous rock on my finger, the big splashy wedding, the two kids and two cars and house in the 'burbs. I had all of it and was absolutely miserable, because I was going down a path chosen for me by everyone except me. When I fell for my first girlfriend it was as though the black and white world I was living in was suddenly being broadcast in technicolor. I was Wonder Woman, She-re and Xena all rolled into one. After the initial rush of invincibility wore off and life became more settled, and I realized that relationships are hard no matter who you're with, I still felt like more of an equal partner than I ever did in my marriage or previous dating life. And for me, it wasn't so much about sex as that feeling of being the boss of my own life and being able to say that in all aspects, I prefer the company of women.
Wow Holy multiple typos Batman...geez sorry about that.
I have a friend who realized late in life that she was a lesbian. I also wondered how she could not know. She said she always had "crushes" on women when she was growing up, but just assumed it was about the emotional connection with this person, or looking up to that particular teacher. It probably never occurred to her to think about having sex with that person.

Maybe in the future, when gay marriage is common, everyone will be doing a lot more thinking about what they want, sexually, from another person.
This was an excellent piece, well-deserving of the EP and coverspace.

For me, this was one sentence, one concept, that stood out stark and bold:
Yet all too often the problem lies within us – and even when it doesn’t, the solution does.

Amen to that.

Highly rated.
A wonderful examination of one, actually several aspects of sexuality. I would agree with the two questions, just keep asking yourself every so often, because things change.
Unless you ARE aware and conscious, you’re just walking around in limbo, floating along, victim to circumstance. Ancient people--and some not so ancient--somehow understood that life was full of experience and that to be masters of anything--you had to KNOW your SELF.
http://open.salon.com/blog/z_zazhinne/2009/12/11/to_be_really_well_know_your_self_from_the_art_of_wellness

This is the lesson of ancient myths and legends, the “secret” that is learned from fairy tales and adventure stories, the cosmic truth of Jedi masters, and the magic we crave through Harry Potter books. To know anything, one really has to know oneself....
"a higher percentage of men are gay than the percentage of women who are lesbians". I was wondering about this myself, because if it's true, then it "makes sense" to me. I was going to write something earlier about women IN GENERAL having more of a need for an emotional connection, and how there is this concept of "lesbian bed death" where lesbians who are still quite in love with each other just stop having sex, that maybe being a lesbian isn't really anything to do with SEX at all, the way that being a gay man DOES have a lot to do with sex.
I don't know how to express it, but it all makes a lot of sense in my head.
And reminds me of a movie I saw called "Kissing Jessica Stein", about a woman who explores her sexuality after being told she's "too picky".
First, I keep meaning to say that I'm really enjoying how much response this piece has gotten and all the really thoughtful, honest and self-disclosing things people have written in Comments - thank you!

Jack, I've heard many people suggest something similar (some in this Comments thread). Sort of the Kinsey scale with a big puffy middle. I think people who feel in the middle themselves tend to think the middle is bigger...just as people at either end feel the ends are the larger part of the spectrum. In other words, we all tend to think that most people are like us, with some exceptions!

Angela, you're right -- I am partly speaking here from my own experience. I wasn't clear in responding to Ms. Anthropia that I was referring to her challenging what I had written about women's sexual response ONLY - that I was paraphrasing from the articles on recent research into same rather than generalizing from my own experience as she thought I was. Other speculations here -- about women and men hiding their sexual preferences -- are my own, and based on my observations and experiences. It's interesting that you've had the opposite experience with gay men -- I've known many, and heard others I didn't know (famous or not) talk or write about their experiences and I have never once heard a "didn't have a clue I was attracted to men" account -- they all say they had feelings at a very young age, and almost all had acted on them even if they lived a straight life for many years. Just goes to show you that everyone's sampling is different!

Ljturner, thanks for sharing your experience so frankly! I've heard some similar things from women friends who've switched to being only with women, including the bit about eventually there are still the same usual relationship problems. (After all, how could it be otherwise?) And power struggles don't seem to be restricted to opposing genders. But living the life that feels true to you (in any and every way) definitely helps all round.

Cat, I think the more open our society is in every way, the more people will discover their true desires at younger ages. I already see a huge difference now vs. when I was growing up, when being gay was taboo. It will only get better. As for lesbian bed death, I've certainly had women talk to me about that. It is interesting how in some ways same-sex relationships are revealing of gender differences -- the women's can tend to purely companionate over time and the men's often allow for polyamory to some degree or another (at least the gay male couples I've known) while still being long term, loving and completely committed.

Bill & Buffy, thanks!

Z, self-knowledge is indeed a powerful thing. The tricky part is also having self-knowledge about your level of self-knowledge! it's easy to think we have more than we do.
This is an incredibly thoughtful and interesting post. Thank you!
And as I'm sure we all know, Heche Happens

http://www.ehrensteinland.com/htmls/final/ellenandanne-finaldays.shtml
I might be lesbian. Does one time count? I have a number of women friends who I really like a lot but I am loath to ask them if they want to have sex with me. I don't like it when men do that to me and I certainly don't want to jeopardize the friendships. The subject itself is so verboten that the idea never comes to the fore brain where such ideas register. I'm content being a monosexual, some term it metrosexual. I have multiples with my vibrator and that is very satisfying.
Very informative and provocative. Among the most interesting to me is the issue of growing self-understanding. Are we at an evolutionary moment where we are widely changing our awareness of how we're influenced and shaped by information that we glean from our environment? That seems to be a big part of the message. Thanks for this piece. It was fine.
Wow! I've enjoyed reading all of the thoughful, provocative and most importantly respectful comments here...thanks to all of you...after so many other boards with mean spirited comments...it's a breath of fresh air!
Balcones, I think it's great you don't want to make your friends uncomfortable, but why not raise the question in a theoretical way? "Have you ever thought about having sex with another woman?" or something like that. I've had conversations like that with most of my women friends over the years, including the seemingly very straight ones. (Not to hit on them but just to discuss sex in a general way and compare our feelings and experiences.) What I've found out is that many have experimented, and others say they'd be open if the right situation presented itself. Some of the people I'd least expect gave those answers, too, so you might be surprised!

Esprit, it is hopeful that human beings in general seem to be getting more self-aware and more accepting both of self and others. I just was watching part of Brokeback Mountain again on TV last night, and I find that one of the most tragic movies I've ever seen for its portrayal of how society prevents people from having the most basic and also most profound human experience, of simply being with the person you love. We've come a long way since the time period (50's-70's) portrayed in that movie.

Cocoa, most people are wonderfully respectful here at OS as well as very thoughtful in their comments! You may want to hang around a while and get to know us.
In her book The Wisdom of Menopause, Dr. Christiane Northrup says it's not at all unusual for menopausal women to experience a change in sexual orientation. Her theory is that the abrupt change in our hormonal states can bring a variety of changes, and I myself have noticed an attraction to women that seems to come and go.

There I was one night channel surfing, and stumbled upon a movie with Milla Jovovich. Aye carumba! I couldn't take my eyes off her, and then couldn't stop thinking about her!

As my libido took a hit thanks to menopause, imagine my gratitude to Milla to feel such stirrings again.

But now I'm interested in two different men, so go figure.

I completely agree with you when you suspect that women's sexuality is far more fluid than men's. Whether that's biological or sociological is the question, of course.

Great post. RATED!
It's complicated. Gender and sexual preference, it's all about the genetic makeup and hormones--and evidently, the environment too.

From Minnie to Mickey (and all they did was turn off a gene)

A gender bending chemical in plastics is feminizing boys
My ex always wondered why other women were always hitting on her. After 13 years of marriage and 2 kids, she got drunk at a party and.........

Well let's just say she has lived with her new partner now for several years.
This is a sensitive and sensible piece of writing, as usual.

As a counterpoint, I'll add that both the straight community and the lesbian/gay community seem preoccupied with the notion that one must choose. Implied in the question, "How could she not know?" is the assumption that there is some observable, definitive, and finite thing to grasp (Open up the body and find me the organ in charge of sexual orientation!). And so there is often a marginalization of those individuals who refuse to commit one way or the other. For these reasons, I would agree with an earlier suggestion of yours that gender preferences are far more fluid than we want to accept--we feel safer in a quantifiable reality where strict parameters define us and them, and keep us FROM them.

Just look at dogs...they don't care. They screw anything.
It's all so interesting - human sexuality and how people are oriented. This is a great article! Kelly McGillis ("Witness" - one of my favorite movies!) came out in April. Takes a tremendous amount of courage.
It has been proven that women's sexuality differs than men's; studies have shown (and I can find them if you wish) that men's sexuality is of a more fixed nature than women's.

The LGBTQ movement doesn't wish to hear (of which I am a part of) of the fact that not all women's sexual orientation is not innate--that, for some women, we definitely and consciously CHOOSE our partners--and that a specific gender is not necessarily a firm requirment.

The theory of homo or heterosexuality being a born trait is not necessarily true for SOME women.
Blah.

My first post ever and it is messed up.
Clarification:

The LGBTQ movement doesn't wish to hear (of which I am a part of) that not all women's sexual orientation is innate.


*****

My main point is that with age, experience, different attitudes toward love and sex, some women can experience relationships that fall outside their previous atttractions--this does not necessarily mean they were ALWAYS homo or heterosexual.
Mary Ann: gosh, as a woman on the cusp of menopause that gives me, well, pause. I'll have to warn my (male) partner K about that! ;)

Zen Haitian: I haven't read your links yet but have read a number of articles about chemicals in the environment messing with the sexual development of both humans and animals. It's very very scary!

Cat, interesting. Most straight people I know have rarely gotten hit on by gay/lesbian folks even when they're around them a lot. So if it happened frequently, it does seem like something to consider....

Ghost, I agree with you about the human need to categorize, and that it's not limited to straights. I mentioned in an earlier comment that a bi female friend has felt pressured to identify as lesbian by other lesbians. I try to respect how people want to define themselves - - or if they don't want to!

DCV, I actually thought McGillis came out some years ago? Maybe it was just one of those open secret things, like Jodie Foster's sexuality.

HowSoonIs, yes, this piggybacks on the issue I was addressing just above, about labeling. The need to prove or assert that sexual preference is innate has political and social purposes (for equal treatment) but it is confining, too. My own feeling is that it probably is innate for most people, both gay and straight, but it seems there's a significant percentage out there for whom it may be somewhat or even largely fluid. The resistance to that idea reminds me of the old feminist resistance to the idea that there are ANY innate gender differences. It seems absurd to me to claim there aren't, but I understand the impetus behind the stance: that those differences have always been used as an excuse to be discriminatory and sexist. So you try to eliminate those evils by claiming there are no differences. Misguided, I think, but rational in its own way, I guess. I hope there soon comes the day when we can allow for differences of all kinds without making them a point of judgment and discrimination. But that almost seems to go against human nature.
Thanks for the response, Silkstone.

You said, "It seems absurd to me to claim there aren't, but I understand the impetus behind the stance: that those differences have always been used as an excuse to be discriminatory and sexist. So you try to eliminate those evils by claiming there are no differences. Misguided, I think, but rational in its own way, I guess."

I disagree. I think it is not only misguided it is irrational. The feminist movement (at least second wave) trying to assert that ALL differences b/w men and women were biological did a lot of damage to the movement. It negated the complexities of women and many positive attributes were defaulted to male.

As for the LGBTQ movement (much of which has been criticized as, for years, at the helm were mostly gay white men) asserting that all orientation is innate or hard wired at birth for both genders, this does a lot of disservice, once again, to women. All the women who have publicly expressed different attractions than their previous histories must comply with the the theory that they must have made a *mistake* with their former partners and, only now, have seen the light of their true orientation. Anne Heche did not do this, and for that, I actually respect her--she did not come out and claim an ID with which she was not comfortable.

In your post, Silkstone, you write of *internal truths*. Well, for me, there is no internal truth. My journey is not comprised of ONE internal truth that leads me to where I am *supposed* to be in my sexual/romantic life. My love life has evolved with the course of my life due to a variety of factors, and the only internal truth I possess regarding my attractions is that I will follow them as I see fit.

One more interesting aspect to consider is that (and I don't ID as such) bisexuality has been proven NOT to be present in males--studies have shown that those men who claim bisexuality, when presented with all variety of porn--only responded to homosexual porn--again, proving my assertion that their sexuality is A LOT more on the innate side as opposed to the spectrum of women's.

Anyway, interesting to think about and am glad I can express my viewpoints here; expressing anything other than we are BORN this way to some in the LGBTQI movement is grounds for shunning. :P
Edit: The feminist movement claiming that all differences were sociologically constructed--as opposed to some being biological--did a lot of damage...

I'll get the hang of this yet!
You said: "Over the years, I’ve encountered other women who’ve had that same nearly instantaneous discovery of their true sexuality after a lifetime with no clue that they were attracted to their own gender."

I guess this is one of the statements with which I have most difficulties b/c you are positing that, when they embarked on their same sex journies, THAT was their "true sexuality".

My stance is that, just b/c they have decades of opposite sex relationships, doesn't mean those elationships were ANY less true than the ones the same sex ones they may be in now.

Let's look at Chaz's Bono's girlfriend. Was she a lesbian prior to his coming out as trans? Is she straight now? This was one of the most DOMINATING questions for some. Her sexuality is her own. She may not feel the need to be labelled straight, bi or homosexual. There is great variation in women 's sexuality--and for many--not one set truth. Some women may never even look at another woman...in that way...until they meet ONE. It really doesn't mean their gay--unless they choose that descriptor/ID.
I think you definitely have the trunk of the elephant, there. I'm just not sure that's all there is to the animal.

As a lesbian formerly in a long term heterosexual marriage, I always "knew," but kept it below the surface for a very long time. I wonder how many true have no idea.
How Soon: I'm appreciating your thoughtful comments! To respond briefly: When I say "rational" what I mean is that it makes sense if you look at it from the POV of the person(s) doing it. It fits the agenda that they had/have. I also find the idea of saying all gender differences are just socially constructed to be, well, laughable. But I also see the slippery slope argument of focusing on biological differences, as that has been the basis of sexism for all of human history. It's very tricky, and so I'm not as hard on the 2nd wavers as you may be for that reason.

As for "internal truths" -- you actually noted that I used the plural before going on to say you don't have just one, or one unvarying one. Using the plural was my shorthand way of signaling the same idea -- that we are complicated and our internal truth(s) can and does change over time. So I don't think we're in disagreement. I also think when you say, "and the only internal truth I possess regarding my attractions is that I will follow them as I see fit" that also goes along with what I am saying - that we can have an internal truth of, for example, being aware of what we really want and seeking to follow it, whatever it turns out to be, and in any area of our lives. I wasn't speaking of a single internal truth as far as sexual orientation goes.

I hadn't heard that research about bisexuality in men vs. women. That's intriguing, if it has some solid data behind it. I do feel I've known some truly bi men, though, including ones who had no reason to sometimes "go straight" if they weren't genuinely attracted to women as well.

As far as the term "true sexuality" goes -- as I've said several times in this comments thread, I'm accepting the way the people in question define their experience. I'm talking about women, like Baxter, who say that's precisely what has happened to them: that they've discovered their true sexual orientation (I've also heard this from women I've known personally). There are other types of experiences, as you note -- and as I did as well (e.g. about Anne Heche). Again, I'm using their terminology, not labeling them. I'm discussing a particular subset of experience, not all women who have had sexual relationships with women!

Dana, thanks for commenting! I think that's even more common. I chose to focus on the sudden revelation of desire, because I find that more intriguing and mysterious.
This is an excellent and thought provoking post in so many ways. And much to think about, reflect, give voice to. You have a great ability to take on a very complicated subject and make it is seem simple, graspable (I think I made that up) and logical. And you do women a great service here with your piece. Thank you.
I knew when I fell in love with Elvis Presley, Tom Sellek, Michael Nouri, and my husband........ still love all of them.....in different ways......very thankful.......couldn't imagine preference in any other way.
Wow, Mary, thank you!! I feel like you just handed me the most lovely variegated bouquet.

Barbara, yes, I think in this media age, many of us figure out our sexual desires through the famous people and characters they play on screen that we feel attracted to (as I wrote in a much earlier post here about Sean Connery and James Bond!).
Beg to differ.

"Straight men don't suddenly fall in love with another man and make an "exception" to their sexual preference for him. "

Yes, they do. It happens all the time, and it is not something men talk about, or even acknowledge, but oh my, yes they do.
Sexuality is only a question of opportunity. If the right person ("sex" is irrelevant) turns you on and is turned on by you, you'll go for it.

"Sex" and "race" are constructs that are meaningless. Shoehorning people into categories like "lesbian" is pointless.
Meander, I think we're talking about 2 different things. I wasn't talking about secret sex as it seems you are. I was talking about a heretofore straight men suddenly falling in love with a man and partnering with him (not just having sex), as in the female examples I gave above like Baxter, Heche and Nixon. The "fell in love with a person, not a gender" thing.

"Sexuality is only a question of opportunity." Doris, this may be true for you, but I don't think it is for most people, or at least not the significant percentage who are solidly attracted to one gender only (whether it's their own or the other). I think it's just as confining to say everyone is completely bisexual (as you imply) as it is to say people are either gay or straight and that's it. The point is...sexuality is probably still mysterious to a large degree, given how much both social conditioning and social consequences interfere with it. And no one can define what it is for everyone else, but at best, only for ourselves.
You are one of the most thoughtful and meticulous writers at OS. This is exquisitely reasoned. I suspect sexuality is quite fluid, the degree of fluidity varying from person to person. It's strange that science has uncovered so little about homosexuality. If the subject were as rigorously researched as the most abstruse medical condition, our knowledge would increase exponentially. Social mores have stifled research, which is shameful, as sexuality is important, being the source of much joy -- and misery.
To the Most Rev Dr Blevins: Wow, I am fanning myself a bit at getting such a hefty compliment from someone I regard as such a fine (and versatile) writer! Thank you so much.

I agree that (all) sexuality is still shrouded in mystery, but I wonder if that's so bad? As much as I enjoy the research on sexuality that is being done (as is clear from my writing about it), and as much as I think that knowledge does help break down misperceptions and prejudices, perhaps the real problem is that we try to define and categorize sexuality at all when we should just "let the mystery be" as the song says about God and religion and the meaning of it all?
Nice article, silkstone. I often wonder about this chronic lack of desire/disinterest in sex among women. We aren't really raised to think of sex as a way to get pleasure. For me, anyway, it was always fraught with risk and fear, and there was nothing attractive about its forbidden fruit quality-t he penalties were too high. I spend my adolescence trying to quash my feelings of sexual desire, thinking they are evidence that I was a 'bad' girl, that 'good' girls either didn't have those feelings or were better in control of them.

How surprising it is to grow up being trained to say 'no no no' and then in middle age read all of this criticism of women who have lost interest in sex - what's wrong with them, how do we fix them, why are they being so unfair to their husbands, did they just marry him for his money?

I also wonder how many men link their "No guy is touching my daughter til she's 30" with the unavailability of high libido women in middle age. Do people really think that something as fundamental to the human psyche as sex can be compartmentalized for half your life as wrong, risky and to be avoided, then suddenly a switch is thrown and in their 20s and 30s they just know how to enjoy sex in a recreational way?
Hey Sandra! So cool that you came by and commented on this -- never to late to do that. And I love the points that you bring up. I always say that we have no idea what free and unfettered female sexuality really looks like, as it doesn't exist anywhere, not even in this country in this futuristic year 2010. And you point out some of the reasons why. All too many unproductive messages still being given to women about sex, at every age. To quote a movie kid, "It messes with your head." Not to mention your libido.
Well ... as far as "You Might be a Lesbian and not know it" ... as a 58-year old persistently-straight guy ... I really doubt it :
Extremely well written and thought provoking to say the least. I'll be mulling this over for a while. I agree totally, and it's great to get a bird's eye view of the terrain. I've only seen the scenery at ground level.
A dear friend sent me your article after I cried my heart out for a few weeks. I am happily married and just fell in love with a woman. The woman is not good medicine on a personal level, but the feelings I experience when I am around her are unparalleled. All of a sudden, these many years of having to overcome resistance to having sex (even with the man I love) seem to make sense. I was raped as a girl from seven to nine years of age (sexual abuse sounds too pretty), and since then have had an inherent mistrust of the male body. I have to sleep in my own bed, as that's the only way for me to feel safe. If anyone out there is willing to share her story with me for a book project, I'd be very grateful. If anyone out there can give me some advice or good thoughts to ponder, I'd be grateful too. As far as I can tell, there is no solid research on this subject of late blooming...
I'm digging this up to offer a few book suggestions:

_Evolution's Rainbow_ by Joan Roughgarden (http://www.amazon.com/Evolutions-Rainbow-Diversity-Gender-Sexuality/dp/0520260120/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282071079&sr=1-1)

_Sexual Fluidity_ by Lisa Diamond (http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Fluidity-Understanding-Womens-Desire/dp/0674032268/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282071232&sr=1-1)

I don't believe orientation is fixed at birth or permanent. I'll come back later today and post my experiences. What a GREAT post. This subject is fascinating.
This is an excellent analysis on a subject I've attempted often to understand a little better. Thanks
I have dealt with trying to "figure out" who I am as far as my sexuality. I've been with a woman and enjoyed it, but I've never been with a man. All I know is that sometimes it scares me to death to think about being with a man. If I ever get to a point where it could happen I freak out. I've often wondered if I just need to do it and see what happens, but then that seems to be a choice that I could regret. I don't know.
I did not come out before i was 33. I had no tendencies before that, aand after I had no interest in Men.

it can happen