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Stellaa

Stellaa
Location
Santa Rosa, California, USA
Birthday
August 21
Title
Flaneuse
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Δεν ελπίζω τίποτε. Δεν φοβούμαι τίποτε. Είμαι λεύτερος." Nikos Kazantzakis

Editor’s Pick
JUNE 29, 2009 1:32PM

Healthchare Muddle: Your Self Interest Comes First

Rate: 26 Flag

We are at the beginning of seriously changing our national healthcare system.  Yet, most of us get this feeling in our stomach of being overwhelmed by the issues and the direction of which way our policy should go.   Our brain gets fuzzy and instead we read an article about Farrah’s hair, or the New Jersey Housewives.  

Politicians and pundits throw out numbers to make their case. They pull  examples in other nations to tell us what is better, or worse.  They then humble us by the magnitude of the costs and we shut down.  Our system goes into overload and we abdicate our role as citizen to those who know better.  

This abdication of our responsibilities to “the experts” is what those with mega interests are depending on to get the best deal for their side.  Of course they will use advertising and other techniques to scare us with misinformation.  Lets call it what it is, propaganda.  It already started on the cable news networks.  The fear of how we will lose the “best system in the world”, best for whom?   

So, what do we do to arm ourselves as citizens of a democracy to keep all this complexity and purposeful misinformation from making us passive and overwhelmed.  

First I think we clearly identify our self interest.  Pick a side.   Nothing wrong with that, the big Pharmas,  the Doctors, the Hospitals and the Insurers will align with their side.  Pick your side:  

You are the person who needs the services from these four big entities.  When you need their services, you will have no choice.  It will be a matter of life and death.  It’s not just you, it’s your whole family.  Seeing  a sick family member without healthcare and no coverage is distressing and can be catastrophic.  

It’s best to pick sides before you need them and stick to your side.  Even the President and your representatives are not in it for your side.  Elected officials see the interests groups as constituents, yet they forget about you, the citizen.  Politicians will be compelled and richly rewarded with contributions to be “fair to them”.  

So, you need to  enter the negotiation knowing, they have more power, more resources and are way more organized and united that we are.  Yes, we have some advocates, but face it, they don’t have the resources of the big four.  

Look at all the issues from your self interest.  Ask yourself, the following questions assess your current situation and what can happen to you under the current system:  

  •  If I lose my job, will I have healthcare?
  •  My parents and children, do they have adequate healthcare?
  •  Can I afford premiums if I had to pay them myself?
  •  If I have a pre-existing situation can I even get healthcare?  
  •  Can I afford the deductibles?
  •  What if a catastrophic illness hits me?
  •  Are all my life choices dependant on my healthcare?
  •  What percentage of my income is healthcare? Compare that to food, housing, education?
  •  Will I have to be the last resort for family members in need?
  •  What do I need for peace of mind?
  •  What is not necessary?
  •  My current  healthcare, do I have all the options and choices they tell me I have? Or is someone else, some corporate bureaucracy making those choices for me?
  •  How complicated is my system?  Referrals, tests, prescriptions?
  •  Mental health coverage?  Do I have it?  What if one of my children needs it?  How are they covered?  
I am sure I missed some questions, but if you do this assessment  of your healthcare, you will clarify what your interests are and what you should insist on from the Obama administration and your representatives.  Face it, if you get this for yourself, you are also leaving a legacy to your children and future generations.  

Be very, very selfish about this issue, I assure you, the other sides will only look at their interests.  As citizens of a democracy, we have to demand our interests.  Our interests need to be addressed.  Our job is not to preserve the insurance industry or Doctors.  They will all take care of themselves, our job is to insure what meager resources we have and to get some peace of mind.  

I am not a healtchare expert, but I can do one thing, I can look at public policy issues and tell you what matters and what is just there to confuse you and make you lose interest.  

 

UPDATED: WAKINGUPSLOWLY kindly posted a step by step how to lobby for what you want.  Your representatives are home for their summer break, let them know that you are here and you are paying attention.  


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"best for whom?" indeed
We need universal healthcare. I actually don't even care if that means I make less money in the end. It's what needs to happen.
Good advice, evil Greek. Monkey fingered and reddit.
I want us all to have health care. All of us.
I want single payer for us all.
It is the only way out of the mess we call health care in America Today.
I am tired of the 'shrills' predicting doom if this issue is settled with public health care.

I can now say I know more people without health care than with it.
I should point out that not all doctors are on the same side. There's a big split in the medical community regarding nationalized health care. I favor it, as do half the doctors I work with. The split is most apparent between primary care doctors and subspecialists, as well as between academic physicians and private physicians. The tectonic plates have shifted considerably over the last decade. I'm more optimistic now than I've been in a long time.
Fine tune your self interest. You will see that we as citizens have common interest.

Steve, yes, the Doctors are not on the same side. But first, we have to galvanize our side.

We need to have peace of mind and we need to get beyond living our lives as peasants and relying on the goodwill of our employer. Our entire families need care.
I posted this in my local paper on Saturday:
____

AHRQ has reported that perhaps half of the population spends little to nothing on health care (I discuss these findings in my post). There's your major stumbling block right there. While it's not clear how they define "half," it suffices to observe that such a large proportion of an electorate is going to be an extremely tough sell when it come to arguing that everyone should pay something in order that all might be covered for the long-term clinical and economic good of everyone -- including those who now ostensibly pay little to nothing. The for-profit corporate "health care" entities (e.g., big insurance and big Rx) skillfully manipulate this demographic to make certain no substantive changes detrimental to their bottom lines happen.
I'm considering downgrading my coverage to an HMO from the personal choice plan I have now... if they push forward with that idea to tax workplace benefits. I don't have a mortgage and don't itemize my taxes. Nor do I have any dependents. My health care expense is one of the only tax benefits I have.

Otherwise, I may have to cut out food, which is really my primary defense against developing any health issues.
In America, if you have to stay in a reasonable hospital, how much do you have to pay yourself for a day? I mean if you don't have a special, private insurance?

In Europe we have got national health care systems, which are paid mainly by taxes. Then the actual payment when you happen to be in the need of days in a hospital or you need to visit a doctor is not much. For example in Finland (, which is one of the most expensive countries in European Union) one day in a public hospital costs to he patient 26 euro, it means about 37 us dollars. To visit the doctor in a public health center costs 11 euro, about 16 us dollars.
Outstanding, and great questions to help us clarify the position. Redditing now.
Excellent post. Questions each of us needs to ask.
Call to action (or at least thought) through education. Wonderful post. Rated and reddit'd and dugg.
Incandescent, it is a call to action, everything you hear these next few months, think of how it will affect you. What impact it has on you and your future.

There will be an effort to confuse and divert. Confusion starts by making us think that we are to simple to understand. Yes, I am simple, I don't care how the insurance system works and I am not here to make their business profitable, my job is to look out for me and people like me.

One may say that this is not constructive. Well, lets put it this way, if we do not hold to our guns we will get no real improvements.
You are, as always, on the pulse; and inside the skin. Thanks for this.
Connie, eye on the prize.
good questions Stellaa and good snapshot too of what we will have to deal with. I hate this subject, but I know I have to muster up the energy to speak up.

Off to the other post. thanks for the link.
Your approach is very much to the point, as it needs to be. It clears away the fog that is spread by those who profit from the system as it is. Those groups do not have the interest of the people on their agenda; they will try to spread fear and confusion.
If we listen to the pundits, they are just doing a play by play. This play by play confuses us the beneficiaries, puts us in a place of infantilism that it's all way beyond our capabilities and our understanding. When in truth our only understanding should be : our interests. Stop listening to the play by play, the deals are being made while all the energy is spent trying to imagine what will happen instead of us being active in demanding what we want.

I wonder why a march on Washington was not organized by the powers of the Obama machine?
Excellent questions. If the answer to any of them is scary to one of your readers . . . call your representative now and ask that a plan that covers the issues brought up by these questions is proposed and passed.
I've always been amazed at those who are terrifiedof paying taxes for government mandated health care, yet go on to spend hundreds of dollars (or more) per month just for coverage, then have the deductables and co-pays added on top of that, for a service which can decide not to cover them at all or cover only a fraction of what is needed.

I don't consider myself selfish for demanding the same rights that our elected officials take for granted every damn day of their lives. If taxpayer funded healthcare works for them, what gives them the right to deny me the same benefit?
I buy my own insurance. The bill just for li'l ole me exceeds $7,000 per year. I have diabetes, but it's under control and I don't cost that much. The overhead figures I hear bandied about tell me I'm paying in excess of $2,000 a year for overhead, profit, and a bigger boat for the CEO. Overhead for Medicare would be about $200 on that same $7,000.

Here's what I'd like to see happen, bring in single payer universal healthcare, keep charging me $7,000+ ("taxes" or "premiums", WTF do I care?) and use the spare $1,800 + to help someone else get the medical care they need. Yeah, OK, I know that I don't use $5,000 a year in care now, but I also know that's going to change. I seem to recall this is something called a "social contract". Something the "Fuck you Jack, I've got mine!" crowd infesting the right doesn't like.
Thanks for posting the link, Stellaa. I don't have a huge readership (though they are a loyal group), so this is a great way to spread the news.
Excellent, Stella. I rate and reddit this post.

I think one thing that we can say without too much effort is that for the vast majority of us the system is broken. And giving the decisions to fix it to the very people whose livelihood is to keep it broken has to be a no brainer. For them it is not broken, it is money in the bank. Trouble is its our money.

Monte
Where I live now, I can see and doctor and get the medicine I need for around US$6. If I need more serious care, that's also covered. I get this because I'm a legal resident of the country and I pay (quite low) taxes. My wife and sons get the same cheap (and excellent) care.

If more Americans lived abroad, they'd see the U.S. health care con game for what it is.
Monte wrote: "For them it is not broken, it is money in the bank. Trouble is its our money."

What I know about the health care system of the United States of America, it seems to be quite much less developed than that in Europe.

From experiences in Europe we know that the inequality to get the health care when you need it, is quite difficult to fix even with national health care systems, built with tax payers money. There are differences between different European countries how the system is built.

In Finland the system is built to be more local than in most other countries in European Union. The health care is there paid by the municipality taxes. (In reality much of the money in a municipality is coming from the state, because the municipality tax is not enough to run the system there.) But according to the latest surveys of the national social security agency the Finnish health care system is the most unequal in European Union. It works well in the bigger centers, but if you happen to live in rural areas, the health care is difficult to get, you have to travel far and they have got problems to hire workers for the health centers in rural areas. Nowadays there is much privatization going on in the health care system of Finland and they are joining smaller municipalities together, these 'developments' will create even more inequalities.
Great post. The public (or even the politicians) do not know whats in this bill. Hell, they sign trillion dollar budgets, and have no-idea whats in them. None, that I know have an accounting background. This is idiotic. Rated!!
I am with you but not optimistic. The Dems have sold out to the lobbyists and I fear that nothing substantial will happen. It's terrible but I fear true.
It's unconscionable. I think lobbying should be eliminated as a practice, except, of course, for the ones I agree with. I send those money from time to time. Someone somewhere is using our taxpayer money to kill us off early. Is there a life insurance lobby? Who can we pay to do the work we should be doing in this country?
I've been thinking about this post this morning. Refusal of reasonable health care is race and class warfare. Hard to find decent work when you're sick and your teeth are rotting out of your head. That had never occurred to before. Call me slow...
Leslie - I just keep thinking that it's immoral. To profit off of illness and denying coverage and care... immoral.

Can you get some messages off to Waxman?
FWIW, this is tonight:

elebrate Medicare’s 44th Birthday by showing Congress and President Obama the people, unions, doctors, nurses, seniors, faith groups, and Americans of every stripe support a single-payer system.

As President Obama says, “We must build on what works and leave out what doesn’t.” Medicare has
successfully provided care to seniors and people with disabilities for almost half a century. Medicare is a truly American-made system that other health care systems around the world have since been modeled after. With little over 3% administrative overhead, we must look to this American solution to our health care crisis.

The best way to save this system is to expand it and make it a truly single-payer system by removing the for-profit interests.

Polls consistently show that the public supports a Medicare for All system, and 59% of physicians support it. In the face of inadequate reform to our health care system, we want Congress to make sure our voice is heard.

The Leadership Conference for Guaranteed Health Care is launching a rally and lobby day on Thursday, July 30th in Washington DC with concurrent actions around the country to bring this message to Washington DC and the Congress.

The Rally and Lobby Day in DC are currently being planned and logistics will be announced soon.

We urge you and your organization to help support this important action in any of the following ways:

1) Cosponsor the event in DC by providing a donation to the effort or providing buses and/or accommodations for your members or supporters to join us for the day. Please complete the cosponsorship form below.

2) Provide a speaker for the rally planned in Washington DC.

3) Personally deliver a message to your Members of Congress on July 30th in DC and/or in the home district of your Representatives that you support expanding and improving Medicare for All.

4) Join the planning committee of this event to add support to the many things that must be done in preparation.

5) Donate to help fund the rally. Send checks to California Nurses Association National Nurses Organizing Committee, National Nurses Organizing Committee 888 16th St NW Suite 640 Washington, DC 20006, memo: July 30th

6) Download the flyer!

We look forward to hearing from you soon about how you would like to get involved!

From: http://www.healthcare-now.org/campaigns/single-payer-rally/
First, shoot all the insurance companies. They provide nothing, and take out great quantities of precious $.

American legislators should stop thinking the USA knows best and have a clear-eyed look at Europe and Canada.

And, yeah, what Ren Lady said - those legislators refusing the hoi-polloi have the finest of government-paid health care. RIOT IN THE STREETS, YOU-ALL.
A most helpful post concerning the biggest issue facing this country - not just health care but the call to exercise our rights as citizens now and going forward.

Thanks!
Leslie, as long as we have "campaign contributions" we will not have a real democracy. The minute a politician at any level takes one dollar, they are suspect. I think advertising has to go as well.

The disservice that is our political discussion on the news and radio makes me cringe, the discussions on the topic are filled with blather that confuse instead of inform.

I read a fascinating fact, that most new businesses or new ideas are started by people who have jobs etc, but what is happening most will not quit to start the new idea because of the fear of not having healthcare. People will face uncertainty of new idea, market, but the fear of no health care paralyzes so many elements of our economy.

Frankly, the fear of no healthcare keeps us servile.
Hannu: One year ago I spent 24 hours in a non-critical private room at a community hospital in Southern California. The cash price for the room was $17,000. The surgery I had, including the anesthesia services, added another $8,000 to the bill. I would have paid $25,000 out of pocket if I hadn't had insurance. I am lucky enough to be in a group HMO, so my copay was $250 and the "insurance going rate" for the $25,000 was actually about $13,000.

Our self interests always always come first with healthcare, no matter if it is policy or your own care. Never be afraid to piss someone off.

I am deathly afraid of losing my job and my insurance due to my cancer survivor status. I am trying to negotiate a career change right now that involves going back to school and trying to figure out how to go to school full time and work enough that I can keep my HMO is tricky indeed. We shouldn't have to make these kinds of choices.

The stupidity (or is it just ignorance?) of people who complain about how universal health care will make them pay more taxes so they don't want it just blows my mind. Nothing is free! I would be more than happy to pay more taxes and actually receive something in return this time, rather than the usual sharp knife in my lower-middle class back.
CW we all live under the cloud of fear. How can we be free citizens if we have this fear? Is this fear not tyranny?


One of the components of single payer/universal healthcare is a sense of solidarity. You have to start with the basic social agreement that everyone gets sick and that our society will not allow people to die or suffer if we have a way to make them better.

Once the society agrees to that premise, we have to see how that solidarity is also best for our self interest.

As a society we have not made that connection. We claim we are compassionate but we have not translated or into how to implement this compassion. How as a group we have to take these basic steps. Yet you will hear all the confusion about how your self interest does not involve others. That your self interest is not the same as your neighbors.
Stellaa, I hear you loud and clear.

It is absolutely a form of economic tyranny. I sent messages to all of my representatives after reading this post echoing that very sentiment
Stellaa: I've been on a Jane Austen binge off and on for quite a few months now.

One thing that especially interests me is that there seems to be a certain kind of hospitality ethics that accompanies someone becoming sick in someone else's home.

Doctors and apothecaries are sent for, but we never seen the ill guest or his or her family having to pay the medical bill. Herbal preparations are prepared and delivered, but again we never see them being paid for. It's not as if money is completely absent from the scene.... for everyone seems to know everyone else's yearly income (at least among the upper classes).

So, I presume that the the homeowner must pay for the visit by the physician or the apothecary, as well as for any drugs or herbs that are administered.

More importantly, it seems to have been a point of honor not to leave someone ill in your home with only servants to attend them. (It doesn't matter if the servants are highly competent and trustworthy... it simply wasn't the thing to do.) You and/or your family members are expected to do your part as well. Such a contrast between that more personal approach and what we have devolved to today.

I do believe it is that sort of connectedness that you are describing... when you mention what is missing today.
First of all, healthcare and insurance are two completely different things... so I think you should make that distinction in your article. To me, it sounds like you are thinking of them as one and the same. Healthcare is made up of a variety of practitioners. Being covered means having insurance to help pay for those practitioners; however, they are not the same entity.
Best for whom, and best according to whom? In terms of objective measures of quality and outcomes, we don't exactly lead the field right now. Only in expenditures. There are hundreds of people employed by my hospital system to sort out the ridiculous intricacies of coding and billing hundreds of middle-man insurers.

As a hospital employee, I'm not supposed to be "for" a single-payor system.

Except, unfortunately, without one, I know we're screwed in the long run. All of us. Hospitals, healthcare workers, and every citizen.

Healthcare should be a basic right, not a privilege attached to employment.

Harrumph.
I pick the side of holistic practitioners for most things... because it works and they aren't on the side of any of the Big Four.
hannu, it depends on what you're in the hospital for. Everything doesn't fall under the same cost. But, I can assure you, it's a LOT for anything you stay in a hospital for or even if you're there just for outpatient care. It's frickin' ridiculous. A lot of Americans are traveling to other countries to get care, because it's cheaper than it is here, even with adding in their traveling expenses.

It used to be that when someone went to the hospital here in the States, they'd pay one bill. Now, there are so many layers of bills, it's fucking ridiculous. You have the hospital facility bill, the physician group's bill (yes, physicians are now organized into groups), you have the lab bill, you have the nurse group's bill, you have the specialist's bill if one was required, if you get X-rays taken, you have the X-ray tech. bill, you have this bill and that bill... a bill to take a shit in their facility.

I started seeing this happen back in the early 90's, and it just keeps getting way more out of control all the time.

I sprained my ankle last summer and went to get X-rays at an urgent care facility in my area (they're like mini-hospitals that usually are for emergencies only), because I thought I had broken it. Well, I ended up paying $80 for a useless plastic "air cast" that made my ankle hurt more... when I looked online and found that I could've bought one myself for half the money or less (or, I could've made one practically for free).

When I got the bill in the mail and noticed that I was being charged almost the whole amount, even though I have insurance thorugh my job, and when seeing how much they were charging for that useless air cast, I went through the roof. I called the facility and asked why they were charging me so much for the damn thing when I can get one online for a lot less. The lady's explanation literally was, "It costs that much, because it's from this facility." Translation... "We are in the art of ripping people like you off, so we charge bullshit amounts for stupid shit, because we can." If I would've known I could've argued it further and could have gotten out of paying so much for it, I would have... but didn't know it at the time... but now I do.

So, there you have it... the bullshit that goes on here.
hannu, I can assure 1005 that it's not even close to be ing that cheap to be in or visit a hospital here in the States. Hospital visits and stays are in the hundreds and thousands to hundreds of thousands of collars here, depending on what you're there for and how long you're there for.

I started laughing when I read the amount that is paid per day in Finland for a hospital stay... because my fucking useless air cast cost me a lot more than that!!!!!!!!!!!

And to think that people call Michael Moore a liar!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for my crappy typing skills and typos!
La Captiana, thanks for the advice, but I assure you I am not confusing them. The confusion is in the way the system of health care is intertwined with insurance.

The alternative medicine providers may not be part of the 4 but they manage to take a large chunk of often times dubious practices, so, I don't share in the delusion that they are benign, frankly I find them just as dangerous.