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Steve Blevins

Steve Blevins
Location
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA
Birthday
November 05
Bio
Steve Blevins teaches medicine at the University of Oklahoma. He enjoys reading, music, and travel. He is interested in American and European history, French literature and culture, and music for piano and chamber ensemble.

Editor’s Pick
AUGUST 24, 2009 8:14AM

Switzerland: Inside the World’s Finest Health Care System

Rate: 76 Flag

  

Swiss10 

 

Is it any surprise that Switzerland has, arguably, the world's finest health care system?  Would you expect any less from a nation where the air is crisp, the streets are clean, and the trains run on time?

 

Consider the achievements of the Swiss system:           
  • Everyone is covered
  • Health outcomes are excellent
  • Health costs are reasonable
  • Patient satisfaction is high           

What’s especially remarkable about the Swiss system is that it is admired by both liberals and conservatives. Liberals like it because it guarantees universal coverage and conservatives like it because there's no burden on business. 

 

Although more expensive than the British and French systems, the Swiss system is much less expensive than the American system. Mortality rates are lower, waiting times are shorter, and technology is advanced. Not surpris-ingly, patient satisfaction is among the highest in Europe.

 

 Swiss2

There are four major health care systems: the British system, in which the government employs doctors and runs hospitals; the French system, which is largely financed, but not run, by government; the Swiss system, which is financed through a tightly regulated insurance industry; and the American system.

As Paul Krugman points out in his outstanding New York Times piece, the American system has British, French, and Swiss elements. The Veterans Administration system follows the British model, Medicare follows the French model, and the Massachusetts Health Plan follows the Swiss model. 

 

Swiss4 

 

Most Americans rely on an unregulated insurance industry, which fails on most counts: costs are exorbitant, outcomes are poor, coverage is restricted, and patient satisfaction is low. The major European systems – British, French, and Swiss – produce better results. The British system is the least expensive, but access to care, patient satisfaction, and technological innovation lag behind the Swiss.

 

Swiss3 

 

The Swiss system works by regulating commercial insurance. People buy insurance directly from insurance companies, so businesses are out of the loop. Everyone must carry insurance, and those who don’t pay a penalty.

 

The government subsidizes the cost of insurance for low-income individuals (about one-third of the population). The affluent are not subsidized. (Contrast that with Medicare, which covers everyone over the age of 65, including wealthy people who don't need government assistance.)

 

In Switzerland, insurance companies must provide basic insurance to all recipients and cannot deny coverage on the basis of poor health. Premiums are not affected by health status. "Basic insurance" is defined by government, which decides which drugs, lab tests, and devices will be covered. Deductibles and premiums are tightly regulated and cannot exceed certain limits. Insur-ance companies cannot profit from the basic plan, though they may profit from supplemental insurance.

 

Swiss7 

 

The Swiss health care system costs 40% less than the American system (on a per capita basis). Health care costs rise at a slower rate than in America. Healthy lifestyles (e.g. not smoking) translate into lower premiums, and people keep their coverage when they change or lose jobs.

 

The Swiss system has been criticized by right-wingers, who hate government, and by left-wingers, who hate insurance companies. But facts are facts, and results are results. By any standard, the system delivers. And the result is a nation of healthy, satisfied people.

  Swiss5

So why aren’t Americans talking about the Swiss system?

 

Well, actually we are. The Swiss system is the crux of the Obama plan. Specifically, it meets Obama's goals:   

  • Reduce growth of health care costs for businesses and government
  • Protect families from bankruptcy or debt from health care costs
  • Guarantee choice of doctors and health plans 
  • Invest in prevention and wellness 
  • Improve patient safety and quality of care 
  • Assure affordable, quality health coverage for all Americans
  • Maintain coverage when changing or losing a job
  • End barriers to coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions  

Swiss9 

 

So before we get too upset about single-payer and other details in the emerging health plan, let’s remember that the Swiss are masters of efficiency and proficiency. They are long-lived, cost-conscious, and technologically advanced.

 

If Obama takes us as far as Switzerland, he will have done us all an incalculable service.

 

Swiss8 

 

*I am indebted to Paul Krugman for his indispensable analysis of the American and European health care systems.

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obama, switzerland, health care

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Interesting observations - and nice to know about another, less-talked-about (in this country) system. Thanks, Dr.!
Very clearly articulated and calmly argued. Sounds like a plan to me! (Maybe if Obama kept plying Congress with chocolate they'd (1) mellow out and (2) get the hint.)
In America, the stated goal is to benefit people. But the method is to benefit corporations. We believe in corporations more than we do people. And your beliefs always determine your fate. How can it be otherwise? People get their rhetoric, the corporations get their profit and the sick get the shaft. Until we change our beliefs, all else is moot.

Latest story on the reform scam here.
This is a well-thought out piece of work here. It is reasoned and concise, and goes straight to the heart of the matter. Thank you.
There is absolutely no reason to be pessimistic: the time will come!

As the great Winston Churchill wisely remarked: "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."
There is absolutely no reason to be pessimistic: the time will come!

As the great Winston Churchill wisely remarked: "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."
One difference: There is no government option with the Swiss system, correct? The government option is at the crux of our current insurance debate between right and left (those that don't trust government and those that do). I would endorse this option in a heartbeat. Government decides on the base policy, insurance companies can't profit on the base policy only on the supplemental policy, and insurance is purchased directly not through employers.

Thanks for this Steve (and Paul Krugman);

d
As always, your post is direct, interesting and makes complete sense without all the unnecessary posturing. Your bedside writing manner is as flawless as your compassion and sense of humor.
Having had experience with and in the the Swiss healthcare system, I will also add that the hospitals are run as efficiently as the trains and the food is probably the best you will find in hospitals anywhere in the world. The only thing the Swiss don't offer in hospitals that the Danish do is beer and wine with your meals. No, I'm not kidding. And if you are hospitalized in Denmark and in reasonably good shape, they send you home for the weekend to relieve the demand/stress on the employees. You return on Monday morning to the same room and bed and nobody has stolen anything you left behind.
I say this post should be on the cover and deserves an EP. But then again, I adore you. I bow to your intelligence and wisdom.
That's it. I'm moving to Switzerland. hell, just the pics alone make me want to go.

Someday, doc, our myopic politicians are going to quit preaching "we're the greatest country on earth" and open their minds to other possibilities.

Oh, sorry. I fell asleep for a moment and was dreaming.

Good post, as usual Okie.
I tuned in, expecting one of your funny posts - the Swiss are an easy target. But no laughs at all! - a serious post...and one that even gives me hope for an American plan to emerge from the current sturm und drang. It sounds ideal (for the American psyche) - leaving payment to insurance companies, but regulating the hell outta them (ah, but there's the rub).

I still prefer the French system (under which I live, here in Canada - government paid but not operated), but (for the American psyche) it's too "socialistic".
So clearly done Steve. I have heard negatives from the left, and I do think that our huge, multi-cultural population offers more challenges than the Swiss population, but I really learned from this. And your photo breaks were an ingenious way to keep us interested in what is usually dry reading.
If we are to keep health insurance monopolies, make them regulated monopolies. A common sense approach that would also be labeled socialism by the oblivious free market phonies.

In a way we already have a Swiss healthcare system - it's full of holes.
The devil is in the details. It's really nice to have a system that doesn't preclude insurance for people with pre-existing conditions, but how does that work? How do the insurance companies share the burden of the high-cost patients?

In a competitive market, any insurance company that makes itself attractive to the chronically ill will be swamped with costs. Attracting the healthy will work better. Offer your customers discount gym memberships, not home dialysis.
after reading this who could argue?
and damn Switzerland is beautiful!
The logic and reasoning are perfectly sound, but in the end, it doesn't matter. Nothing will change. Washington is already paid for. And money talks, etc.
Do they put Swiss chocolate on the hospital pillows?
And I am indebted to you for laying this out so clearly. Thanks
Great post. And everyone should check out the following on Foreign Policy:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/07/22/the_list_the_world_s_worst_healthcare_reforms
Thanks, Doc! Can you write us an Rx for this? Please?
Steve, thank you for the article, but especially for the eye candy this morning. We honeymooned in Switzerland, a pleasure to revisit it here.

Have a great day.
Well presented and argued. Does the scenery come with the policy?
And they've been doing this for years!!! A friend of mine was a Swiss citizen working in Kenya when she broke her back in a horseback riding accident. She was flown from Kenya to Switzerland for surgery and had a complete recovery. I don't recall her ever mentioning cost being an issue (she isn't rich). I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that health care reform takes place...
This is a wonderful piece; duly forwarded.

So, will this happen for us, Steve? I'm serious. It's overwhelming to think that the US cannot make this happen.......
thank you so very much for this! excellent!
When I worked at Children's Hospital in injury prevention, we were always drawing on the Swiss and Australian models. And the Netherlands too, I think.... (it was a while ago and my brain hates "recalling" stuff)

Thanks for explaining all of this. I sure do envy you Americans for having Obama as a leader - this man is an icon. And if you end up adopting the Swiss model of healthcare to boot, I just might consider that move to Santa Monica afterall....
You have brought back so many memories for me. I lived in Geneva for over two years and LOVED it! The healthcare is like no other, but so is the rest of the country!
Great post. I wrote about the German system as a model--I have become a big fan of its structural efficiencies and outcomes. I believe the Swiss system is similar to the German model--they are at least in the same family.
Steve, this is a wonderfully clear explanation - thanks! And I say that having read Krugman's piece first - you added considerably to it. I too would love to get as far as Switzerland (I guess that makes me one of the Von Trapp family).

What really irks me is all the ignorant people (and some are anchors on Fox News) who say, contrary to all documented evidence, that the US has "the best health care in the world." The delusion is endless about the deficiencies of our system. And I've also heard liberal, well-educated people say something similar, really fearing the "European system" and thinking ours is great. I think if we can just change things and people live under it for a few years, they'll soon change their minds and realize what they've been missing.
That was the most pleasant health care piece I've ever read. I think we'd all be healthier if we had to look at Swiss vistas all day.

Rated.
I recall the Krugman op/ed and had mentioned it here and there in a comment. You've done a great service by posting a succint review and the editors are to be commended for recognizing its importance to anyone attempting to penetrate the issue.

(Love the Switzerland photos - my birth certificate says Geneva.)
The whole "insurance companies can't profit off the basic plan" concept may meet some resistance around these parts. But I'm down.
Great post. You've made proud (yet again) of my Swiss heritage.
Dr. Steve
thank you for posting this. Information without bias teaches... I hope many. rAted!
Harry Homeless called it - we believe in corporations (and profit) more than people, and until our beliefs change nothing else really will.
Great post, Steve...I learned a lot from this (and loved the pictures). You've helped me look at Obama's proposal in a new light, and also, totally justified my OS reading time today. Thank you!
And only here in the good old USA is health care (really "medical care" as it does not promote health) about profit.....only profit! Only here do doctors get rich. Holland, too, has a fabulous health care system, but since it's all about money here....well, you know....Personally, I don't give a damn about health care reform as the entire medical establishment doesn't really work and offers few cures, if any, not even relief in many cases. I'll stick with homeopathy and herbal medicine which work amazingly well for a faction of what I'd pay just for a doctor's visit! And as for the swine flu vaccine coming this autumn, wonder how many people it will kill?
they're good, the Swiss. trains, watches, banks, chocolate, their little militia and healthcare. what they set their minds to, they do well. maybe a tad too well, but in this I wouldn't complain.
I'm with O'Really. I want swiss chocolate included in the plan.

Seriously, why aren't you co-surgeon general with Dr. B?
Just freakin excellent. So when do you become Obama's Health Czar? And why aren't his wags presenting it this clearly? Sheesh. If I keep needing surgery I'll have to move to Switzerland.
Excellent analysis- I did not know about the Swiss healthcare system- it sounds like an effective compromise if we can get people to settle down and look at some objective facts. Can we do that, I wonder? ( I hope)
I, too, was waiting for the punch line. Thanks Steve for such a clear explanation...I get so confused......
Thanks for the overview. And the lovely pics.

And by the way, Steve, will you run away with me to Switzerland?
If we can all agree this is the model of the Healthcare Reform we want (and I will) How do we get there from here? It isn’t exactly what the Congress or the President has on offer.

My paternal ancestry is Swiss, and had they a “Law of Return” I’d have probably ”returned” there long ago. I am a member of “ProTell”, the Swiss NRA, but that doesn’t mean that they would let me in their militia (despite a huge overlap in membership). My neighbors who are Amish also claim Switzerland as their country of origin. How they deal with the “English” (ie non-Amish neighbors and Government) would probably seem very strange to most of you, but it stems from what I would call a basic Swiss ibertarianism, much like that which inspired our own founding fathers.

One of the things our Founding Fathers warned against as a death knell of freedom was the development of partisanship and political parties.

I didn’t see anything like this “Healthcare Plan” in the President’s remark that “We don’t want a lot of talk from those who caused the problem” (We just plan on scoring big for our Party) and certainly I haven’t seen this proposal from the Republicans (who are mostly just gleefully watching their “Opponents” being beaten up)

So, are we all agreed on the Swiss model of Healthcare?
What do we need to do to get us there? And no, I don’t trust either the Republicans or Democrats to “Drop me off in Switzerland”, judging from the “Flight Plans” currently under discussion. Suggestions welcomed.
Oh, Steve, you've done it again. A reasonable, compassionate, understanding position on our health care delivery system, complete with lovely pics. I read the Krugman piece and thought the same thing.

The US is either going to get this right, beginning now and evolving over the next few years, or the place will implode.

And if that happens, I'm moving to Switzerland. Or Paris. It's a coin-toss.
Thanks. Rated.
May I join the group of OS expatriating (sp?) to Switzerland? I might stay here if you would agree to Sally Swift's suggestion that you become Obama's health czar.
Excellent piece on health care, one of the best I've read so far.
Results are results. Who can argue with that?
Steve, excellent post. The key is the government regulation of the insurance companies. Needles to say, our greedy lot, will fight all forms of regulation.
As a paper-Swiss citizen (I was naturalized via marriage) and one who lived in Switzerland for years, I can attest to the truth of this post.

Not once did I ever have to wait more than a few hours for an appointment to see my or my children's doctor.

When my second child was born there, a midwife made daily visits to our home for two weeks to check on both me and the baby and serve as a lactation consultant. (She even took the stitches from my episiotimy out, right there in my bedroom, and THANK GOD because they were killing me.)

We were BROKE when we lived there--broke, young and stupid. But we never, ever suffered lack of health care.

Today, I earn ten times what I earned in Switzerland and because I'm self-employed, all I can afford to purchase is a policy that covers catastrophic illness or injury. My deductible is $5000, which makes me reluctant to go in and see about a stomach problem I'm having as it's probably nothing, but it'll cost me my whole deductible to find out.

We need to do something right now to fix this system, and having lived under the Swiss system, I'd be all for it's adoption here.
this is brilliant. the swiss! of course the swiss are efficient and neutral. it makes so much sense. if this is what Obama has in mind, then i feel much better. i'm indebted to you, Dr. Blevins. lvoe love love and gratitude
Far too sensible. We can't have that. Nice post. Rated.
Did you send this to President Obama? 'cause otherwise we're all moving to Switzerland, not just for the health care, but for the scenery. Oh, no, they don't have an ocean, do they? Well done, good info, posting to Facebook right now!
~rocco and rusty
who don't need health insurance, just health care
If you'd be willing to travel to Iowa to speak to a certain Senator..... I'd be happy to host and drive you around. For real, man.
I could embrace the Swiis model with one change- all the insurance providers must be non-profit. Otherwise it becomes a Full Employment Act for for-profit HMO's. We already hae the horrifying military-industrial complex which sucks the lifeblood out of the US regardless of whether we're at war or at peace. We hardly neeed another government subsidized behemoth. Any time government money flows into pivate profit-making hands, we should be extremely vigilant.
"So why aren’t Americans talking about the Swiss system?
Well, actually we are. The Swiss system is the crux of the Obama plan."
___

Obama has a plan? Really? Could have fooled me. He's pretty much lost control of the reform effort because he's let Congress draft the legislative proposals, and they in turn are letting K Street ghostwrite the specifics. I rather doubt that anything we pass will end up in any substantive manner resembling the Swiss system.
.
I just read Paul Krugman’s article, that Dr.Blevin’s ( I suffer from the German /French "Proper pronoun problem", eg. I do not know Dr. Blevins well enough to call him by his Christian name without assuming an uninvited familiarity(tu), so I hope that he will take it entirely as a matter of respect that I address him as his (Title?) + surname (vous)- ) has condensed in this post, and it doesn’t seem to me that Mr, Krugman is being entirely straightforward about things. I don’t see “a government option insurance plan, competing against private insurance companies”(Obamacare) as being anything like a “ government regulated system of private insurance companies”(Swiss Care) I do indeed admire the way the Swiss do many things, but I think one must take into account a difference of culture and government. The Swiss can and do take their Government Officials at their word. We cannot, and I for one, do not. When anyone in congress or the white house writes up this “Swiss” plan, in bill form, and submits it to the American people to instruct their representatives in the desired revisions or acceptance, then I shall say that we have nobly reformed Healthcare in America. Until then, I’m afraid all I hear is Mr. Krugman yelling “Hey Everybody, you’re taking us all wrong! We’re gonna do it on the “Swiss Plan!”*

*(notavailableinthecontiguousunitedstatesoralaskaorhawaiiaothersocializedhealthcareuptoandincludingunpluggingyourgrandmothermaybesubstitutedatthewhimoftheexecutiveorlegislativebranch)

I’m not from Missouri, but show me, anyway .Please show me so that I can vote for this, we really could use “Swiss” Healthcare, and not just another partisan looting of the American pocketbook and way of life.
Very well done, Dr. Blevins, and very informative. (I'd have had no idea that the Swiss system worked so well, or even that they had a system that was not watch-, cheese- or chocolate-based.) Also: persuasive as hell, and insightful on whether we can have a humane system even without the public option.
*(notavailableinthecontiguousunitedstatesoralaskaorhawaiiaothersocializedhealthcareuptoandincludingunpluggingyourgrandmothermaybesubstitutedatthewhimoftheexecutiveorlegislativebranch)

Sorry, apparently even the comment upload could't handle the fine print
one last try

*(notavailableinthecontiguousunitedstatesoralaskaorhawaiia
othersocializedhealthcareuptoandincludingunpluggingyour
grandmothermaybesubstitutedatthewhimoftheexecutiveorlegislativebranch)
Wow, everyone should read this. I'm moving to Switzerland, or Massachusetts...
The Swiss system would work well in the US if we did not have such a large burden of indigents. Naturally our mortality will be higher when such a large percentage of the population does not take responsibility for their own health. I believe you are anamored with the Swiss. However if we had followed the example of the Swis in WW II we would all have insurance courtesy of the Reichstad

John E Moore MD
Thanks for the overview Steve. The Swiss system sounds iminently sensible, which is why I don't have that much faith that the version we ultimately get here will resemble it much. The oligarchs and their dupes have already made it plain that something that works this well won't be allowed. If I sound a little pessimistic, it's because I am; the last couple of weeks have kind of sapped my belief that this nation is capable of getting anything right.
That looks funny. Eminently? That's somewhat closer maybe:)
You liberals are missing the salient point. America does not boast an affluent and healthy population such as the Swiss. Dr. Blevins is way off the mark. If it seems that the swiss healthcare system operates in a eutopia you are partially right. But I doubt that many Swiss live in a getto struggling to get their next meal. Your application of the swiss system to the american system is nothing short of fantasy. The Swiss system would not work in a country in which so many have so little. Nice image but you fail to address the problems in an unbiased light


John E Moore MD
"You liberals"

Pul-eeze, spare us the wingnut name calling.
Steve,

Clear and cogent and appreciated. The only problem I've ever heard about it was that it was ineffective with the Swiss Navy.
not just healthcare, either. only developed nation on earth with something quite like democracy.

only real weakness is no surf beaches.
Leave it to the people who made superbly functioning and useful army knives to have excellent health care as well. Thank you.
You need to get this message out there, girlie! I watch the news, listen to NPR, read Huffpo, Salon, and Slate, my local paper, and this is the first coherent description of our proposed health plan that I have read. That's not to say that I was ever against Obama's healthcare plan, I just did not know what it entailed. So thank you for that and the lovely photos.
@Dr Moore

Funny thing about posting on Salon, you can never be sure who you’ll offend, but you can always be pretty sure you’ll offend someone. Take me for instance, I pretty much agree with you that “Obamacare” is not going to take us to a “Swiss Utopia” without a lot of rewriting, but that is no reason to disparage the Swiss. My ancestry is Swiss, and if Family Legend is true, then it was a shirt tale cousin of mine who, as President of Switzerland, when faced with a Nazi demand for surrender, asked about the size of the German invasion force. The German Envoy replied that he had 5 times the soldiers that Switzerland could put in the field. The President is said to have replied, “Very Good, I shall see that each of my Marksman is issued at least 5 bullets.
Had France and Britain maintained their militia forces as Switzerland had, they could have given the same answer ( ‘course tanks don’t work real good in mountains)
Switzerland did quite enough just keeping itself free and providing a haven for refugees,
Had that flaming Liberal FDR not pushed us into the war, I could have grown up in the shadow of the Third Reich instead of The Soviet Union ( all Hitler wanted was ….)
So, by your implication, that flaming liberal FDR did at least something right, and my kith and kin of German ancestry who fought against Germany in WWII, would agree. But don’t put it on the Swiss to have done more than defend themselves, when Britain, France, and Russia could not.
When you disparage the Swiss, Smile when you say it.
I didn't mean to call you girlie! I just forgot where I was for a minute. Sorry.
Token, I am thoroughly impressed with your anecdote. No doubt however that if the US had remained neutral as did switzerland Germany would have won the war. I bear no contrition regarding the perceived offensiveness of my coments. I admire Salon for their support of free expression. But it is not my job to wear a muzzle rather than offend someone. If I offended you I can only suggest that you take yourself less seriosly as this will allow for more open discourse. Furthermore I have nothing against the swiss I just believe their system cannot be transposed to the American model. It just wouldn't fit. You cannot deny that their military remained neutral at a time of unprecedented aggression on either side of their border. Strange is'nt it that the Nazi's respected their neutrality. This begs the question as to what backroom deals were made to insure the integrity of the swiss borders. Certainly money had something to do with it. Or perhaps the Swiss are blaten anti-semites. I really don't know. What I do know is that when it came time to save the wotld Americans rose to the task while Switzerland stood idly by. Though I doubt in earnest that their anemic military would have made much of a difference. I am hoping you respond as I enjoy the discourse.

John E Moore
I believe there is a certain sense that America creates things and ideas that other countries emulate, and for "us" to admit that other countries have created systems that work better, more efficiently in every way including economically, is a barrier that many of the movers and shakers are unable to overcome. It is a very stupid way of thinking. STUPID.

Arrogance is DUMB. DUMB and STUPID, together they are a very bad combination.

It is about time that America got rid of the STUPID and DUMB. Lets start a medical care system like the Swiss or the French or even the Brits. Any of the above sound great to me, as long as the one we have now (do we even have one) is trashed and ended forever.
Bobby G ---Liberal is a euphamism

John E Moore
Ablonde, I like your picture however when making a point you should steer away from words like stupid or dumb. Whenever one invokes profanity or childesh verbage they have in a sense lost the argument. It is my contention that you are not understanding the contrast between Swiss and American demographics. I do not object to the Swiss system. I am merely enlightened beyond common lay people with regards to the feasibility of the swiss system into an america which is home to a degree of poverty that the swiss have managed to avoid. Gun ownership is a right in America . Healthcare is a privilige. If we socialize medicine then why not socialize energy or food. Why not have the government support us all? Do you honestly think Doctors are going to be motivated in a system wthout apprpriate re imbursements. Like anyone else Doctors work to get paid. If you remove the financial incentive from medicine not only will the quality of physicians go down,the quality of care would plummit as well. I know that I would not be enslaved in a government model. Patients come first but supporting my family is a close second and I would be loathe to sacrifice one for the other. Brush up on your vocabulary and enlarge the picture---then people will take you more seriously.

John E Moore MD
Great post, except for the part where you list the four major health care systems. Even Krugman gives Canada billing before France. As he should. We implemented our very similar system before they did. Although they have made some improvements.
Juliet---You delude yourself in thinking that we can transpose a socialist system onto American healthcre. In a socialized system where is the incentive to work. Quite simply we will work a bare minimum without adequate reimbursements. Democrats would have us making what teachers and firemen make. That would have a catastrophic effect on the quality of healthcare in this country. I work hard in a rural area of Montana. But I will not be enslaved by Obamacare. If the Canadian system is so wonderful why the influx of Canadians seeking real healthcare in this country. I know I would be loathe to find myself in a Canadian hospital. You should realize that a socialized system must never take root in this country. Though I must admit the democrats are doing there best to lay fertile ground and in doing so striking a blow to the lynchpin af the Amarican system----free enterprise Keep Your Canadian system above the border we are a republic here we work for our livelyhoods. By rights in the US healthcare is a privilige that must be earned like other necessities such as food and shelter. We are your most potent ally because of the free market. If anything like the Canadian system infiltrates our provision of healthcare this rural town will lose one fine doctor.


John E Moore MD
Self Interest will defeat an Intelligent President every time.
Thank you for thinking of me Mr. President, I am one American that really appreciates you.
>>"Democrats would have us making what teachers and firemen make. That would have a catastrophic effect on the quality of healthcare in this country."

>>"Do you honestly think Doctors are going to be motivated in a system wthout apprpriate re imbursements."

And there is the crux of John Moore's objection to healthcare: he'll make less money. Never mind the 45 million people who will die because you make more money: you want yours. Why should you make more than teachers and firemen make? As for the disastrous effect: it would drive people like you, whose only motivation is mercenary, out of healthcare. That can only improve the quality of healthcare in this country.
Munchie I hate to burst your bubble but Obamacare has nothing to do with you. It is one part of a broader scheme where B. Hussein wants to engineer a socialist state ---an oligarchy where he and his liberal elite friends can tell us how to live and what to think. So throw away your girlish affection for the man and wake up before he strips even the last vestiges of freedom from your unknowing heart.


John E Moore MD
>>Brush up on your vocabulary and enlarge the picture---then people will take you more seriously.

Well, if we're critiquing each other's writing skills, you could learn to spell. ("Childesh?" Really?) Then people might take you more seriously, though I doubt it, as your condescending, self-involved and self-aggrandizing tone are extremely off-putting.
ahhhh, a breath of fresh air...thanks for presenting this in a way that didn't further the health care headache!
Floyd Elliot, I am not sure where you get your numbers. I believe you mean 45 million people are uninsured Certainly not all these people will die without Obamacare. Make sure of your statistics before using them in an argument. As far as my income. I have vastly more education than firemen or teachers and that places my servuices at a higher premium. Any individual deserves to make whatever the market will bare. It's called free enterprize.
I have never met anyone who is not driven by the profit motive physicians notwithstanding. You expect an altruism among physicians that I doubt you personally posess(sp?) And inasmuch as you know nothing of my clinical skillls I question the idea that medicine would be better off without me. All of the physicians I know are concerned about their income. I am merely bold enough to admit it. Obamacare has nothing to do with better healthcare. It has everything to do with power and money. We have it and they want it. But do not fool yourself into thinking that my opinions are in the minority. Push us far enough and we will unionize. Whatever it is that you do for a living I doubt you would be excited about doing it for less. Furthermore to imply that I am heartless to the 45 million that don't have health insurance is naive. As for the uninsured I can count myself among their ranks. But I do not ask the government to sponsor me. Healthcare is a privilige not a right. And like all those other uninsured I must earn that privilige.
As far as my own income, inasmuch as I practise in a rural area my income would actually increase under Obamacare. My objection to socialised medicine is not driven by greed. It is driven by common sense. If healthcare is a right what about food and a roof over our heads. Under your system are they not rights as well. And as such should the governemnt finance those as well. Socialism is like a cancer and finally as far as I can see the real people, not the knee jerk liberals I meet on this blog, are opposed to the impending coup that the democrats are inflicting upon us. If you ever want to see how the government runs healthcare just visit a VA hospital. The care rendered at these facilities is horific at best. If this is how the government cares for its war heroes how do you think it will care for us?


John E Moore MD
Floyd Elliot, Why is it that when anyone argues with a liberal they are arrogant at best and morally bankrupt at worst. Can you not handle a dfference in opinion? I freely admit I am not a good speller but by your tone I can tell you are getting my message loud and clear.


John E Moore MD
>>Floyd Elliot, I am not sure where you get your numbers. I believe you mean 45 million people are uninsured Certainly not all these people will die without Obamacare.

Good point, Johnny. That was not what I meant to say, as you're aware, and one can't edit comments. As for your accusation of arrogance, well, I'd suggest you reread your own comments for a prime example of the genre.

Your vast education--most PhDs spend far more time in school than MDs, by the way, and make far less--does not entitle you to a vast income. And as it happens, right now the market will "bare" paying you that income, but if under healthcare reform the free market you so blindly idolize refuses to cough up so lavish a salary, I hope you'll be to adjust to your straitened circumstances. BMWs instead of Bentleys...I shudder to think.

>>Push us far enough and we will unionize.

Hee! After you right wingers defanged unions, this is your best threat? You could more credibly threaten to leave to start a mortgage-backed security brokerage.

And people think I'm funny. You are hilarious. And ridiculous. I'm out; I've wasted enough time on you.
Floyd Elliot. Since you have decided to bail out I can assume you have nothing more to say. I am sorry to have wasted your time but why have you made this a personal issue. Like all liberals you feign tolerance yet when it comes to a different opinion you are wholly intolerant. How liberal is that? I respect you and your opinions and regret that the admiration is not reciprocated. If you are to further your cause you must refrain from personal attacks and stick to the issues.


John E Moore MD
Doc - very interesting analysis. I posted here on Sunday about my experiences with the private health care as a Canadian visiting the U.S. . My impression is the U.S. system pays for lots and lots of comforts that are not at all necessary, but like luxury cars, I am not sure that many americans are willing to give them up. I would be interested to have your reaction.
http://open.salon.com/blog/lawlawland/2009/08/23/i_love_private_health_care_like_i_love_the_cadillac_escalade
I am out, John Moore MD, because you have nothing to say other than to screech, "Socialism!" at the top of your lungs, as if that were some kind of horrendous bogeyman that will scare the children. As ascribing socialism to Obama's healthcare plan is bullshit of the purest ray serene, this conversation is a waste of time.

Also, I feel that it is extremely bad manners to serially post in someone else's blog. I apologize to Dr. Blevins for having been provoked to do so.
Floyd Elliot, I do not feel apologetic to Dr. Blevins. His intimation that the Swiss system is applicable to our current crisis is inconsistant with our founding priciples. Blogs are an oppurtunity for honest exchange of ideas. I respect Dr. Blevins opinion while I value the oppurtunity to share my own thoughts. Blogs are intended to be open ended and I believe Dr. Blevins appreciates that. The use of profanity in the context of an argument is synonomous with raising a white flag. I have enjoyed our exchange. Your passion for healthcare reform is inspiring. Respectfully I too must retire from the discourse but imagine we will meet again on another blog.

All the best---John E Moore MD
lawlandlawland I believe you bring up an interesting point. How much sacrifice in the trappings of good healthcare are Americans willing to sacrifice? I believe we have become quite accostomed to our prohibitvely expensive system. And the extravegance extends beyound the niceties. I cannot remember the number of tests I have ordered merely to reassure a patient. Multiply that by a factor of 100 and you have the number of tests I have ordered to cover my liability. If Americans want a streamlined system they will have to make sacrifices. One important area of change involves the arena of litigation. Without tort reform a socialized system cannot survive. With the lawyers on one side and the government on the others Doctors will find it difficult to act in the patients best interest. The end result is that Doctors will order tests that the government refuses to pay for after the fact as in an emergency. The financial burden will then fall upon the patient. In the end Physicians must be free to work with the patients in establishing an appropriate and efficient careplan. This will not be possible with the tort laws currently on the books.


John E Moore MD
John E. Moore: Rather than rambling nonsense stuff, why not get to business and explain to us how the current system is so good that the proposed changes will make it worse.

Here is a good start:

Decker, S.L., Remler, D.K. (2004) How much might universal health insurance reduce socioeconomic disparities in health? A comparison of the US and Canada. Applied Health Economics and Health Policy, 3 (4), pp. 205-216.

A strong association between lower socioeconomic status (SES) and worse health-- the SES-health gradient-- has been documented in many countries, but little work has compared the size of the gradient across countries. We compare the size of the income gradient in self-reported health in the US and Canada. We find that being below median income raises the likelihood that a middle aged person is in poor or fair health by about 15 percentage points in the U.S., compared to less than 8 percentage points in Canada. We also find that the 7 percentage point gradient difference between the two countries is reduced by about 4 percentage points after age 65, the age at which the virtually all U.S. citizens receive basic health insurance through Medicare. Income disparities in the probability that an individual lacks a usual source of care are also significantly larger in the US than in Canada before the age of 65, but about the same after 65. Our results are therefore consistent with the availability of universal health insurance in the U.S, or at least some other difference that occurs around the age of 65 in one country but not the other, narrowing SES differences in health between the US and Canada.

Wow! People living in a social democracy do better economically! Who would have figured this out?

O'Hara, B. (2004) Do medical out-of-pocket expenses thrust families into poverty? Journal of Health Care for the Poor and Underserved, 15 (1), pp. 63-75.

This paper estimates the impact of medical out-of-pocket expenses on families' well-being using the Survey of Income and Program Participation. Medical out-of-pocket expenses include the out-of-pocket costs from medical services and the family's share of health insurance premiums. Demographic characteristics, insurance status, and medical usage of the family are analyzed to determine which characteristics are most likely to impoverish a family. Families impoverished because of medical out-of-pocket expenses are far more likely to have older heads of the family, at least one family member in poor health, or some adults without health insurance. Families without at least one person who worked full time for the entire year were also likely to be impoverished. However, children in the family had little effect on the probability that the family became impoverished. This odd result is probably due to the high correlation between parental health insurance coverage and the health insurance coverage of their children.

I would have never believed this! The U.S. health care system leading its citizen into poverty? Go figure.

Himmelstein, D.U., Thorne, D., Warren, E., Woolhandler (2009) Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study. The American Journal of Medicine, Vol. 122, No. 8, pp. 741-746.

RESULTS: Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three quarters had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors, the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001. CONCLUSIONS: Illness and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of US bankruptcies.

No way! The current health care system in the U.S. also contributes to personal bankruptcy?

Here is what the Canadian Government had to say about this:

The last on our list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada, are medical problems; they often can and do lead to a lot of financial problems. Fortunately, in Canada most of our medical expenses, such as hospital care, are covered by the government, unlike in the United States where medical bills for uninsured Americans are a leading cause of bankruptcy in America.
Part II

Himmelstein DU, Warren E, Thorne D, Woolhandler S (2005). "Illness and injury as contributors to bankruptcy". Health affairs (Project Hope) Suppl Web Exclusives: W5–63–W5–73.

In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes, which indicates that 1.9-2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs average $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more likely than other debtors to experience lapses in coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick.

Not only the poor, but middle-income families can also go into bankruptcy!

Woolhandler S, Campbell T, Himmelstein DU (August 2003). Costs of health care administration in the United States and Canada. The New England journal of medicine 349 (8): 768–75.

Results: In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada's private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada. Between 1969 and 1999, the share of the U.S. health care labor force accounted for by administrative workers grew from 18.2 percent to 27.3 percent. In Canada, it grew from 16.0 percent in 1971 to 19.1 percent in 1996. (Both nations' figures exclude insurance-industry personnel.) Conclusions: The gap between U.S. and Canadian spending on health care administration has grown to $752 per capita. A large sum might be saved in the United States if administrative costs could be trimmed by implementing a Canadian-style health care system.

How about that? American doctors/researchers suggesting that socialism works! They even recommend implementing a Universal health care system based on a country that has 1/10th of the U.S. population.

Finally, you might want to learn a thing or two about helping other people, as Dr. St-Jacques did, not in a rural setting, but in a even more remote area: Prior to joining the Canadian Space Program, Dr. Saint-Jacques was a medical doctor and the Co-chief of Medicine at Inuulitsivik Health Centre in Puvirnituq, Quebec.

Inuulitsivik Health Center – Puvirnituq

If I have the time, I will add other peer-reviewed publications on this topic.
Kanuk I will read what you have sent and get back to you. I am somewhat suspect when you dismiss my ideas as nonsense rambling. Surely you must have a more articulate way to critique my ideas. At least however you have given me the oppurtunity to learn something new. After I formulate my own ideas I would be interested in yours and I can guarantee that I will not refute what you say with the anemic diatribes of rambling or nonsense.


John E Moore
Dr. Moore

Thanks for the invitation to discourse, so few people have any interest in Swiss history during WWII (or any other time period, for that matter.) And, I must admit, I get so few opportunities to act offended that your “Attacking my ethnic Homeland” was too good an opportunity to miss. You seem to be hitting the high points in the “Obamacare” argument, so I’ll leave that area to you. What made me curious is that, one, you seem to harbor some ill will toward Switzerland, and two, that, as an amateur linguist, I seem to detect something not quite native English speaker in your sentence structure.
So, if you really would like to discuss Switzerland, WWII, or whatever, PM, me and I’d be glad to. Just don’t disparage anything really important, like the OSU Buckeyes.
I know this is probably in terribly bad taste, but I loved the pictures of Switzerland interspersed with soothing persuasions to accept what the Government tells us is good for us. It just kept popping into the back of my mind that I’d seen something very similar to this before. So I thought about it, and here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJTBBoDFH0
Hey Dr. Moore - doctors here in Canada seem entirely motivated to work and are well paid, sufficiently to be in the top class of upper middle class earners. Apparently doctors in Switzerland and elsewhere are feeling financially (and morally) motivated also.

Talk of enslavement is only a step or two above death panels (or calling people stupid).

I do agree that the shameful poverty that exists in the U.S. is a problem in all sorts of ways. If it is an obstacle to health reform, perhaps you have some ideas on how to alleviate it. Denigrating teachers, the front line against the major reason for poverty, doesn't do it. Nor, for that matter, denigrating the men who risk their lives in fires. But, never fear, our doctors up here in Canada earn lots more than teachers and firemen.

And what's with the hate-to-be-in-a-Canadian hospital? I've been in them several times, my daughter, my late husband, lots of people I know. I haven't heard any complaints. (And no heartbreaking, backbreaking bill afterwards.)
Ah, your true colors come out.

"Munchie I hate to burst your bubble but Obamacare has nothing to do with you. It is one part of a broader scheme where B. Hussein wants to engineer a socialist state ---an oligarchy where he and his liberal elite friends can tell us how to live and what to think. So throw away your girlish affection for the man and wake up before he strips even the last vestiges of freedom from your unknowing heart."
Just wanted to thank you again for this literate article Dr. Blevins. This morning while I was making brie I was, as is my standard practice, listening to NPR. Paul Krugman was being interviewed and thanks to this post I was able to get much more out of it.
Great system! Now I want to move to Switzerland.
Thank you for this truly excellent post. I spent a couple years out of college as one of the great uninsured masses and while I (thankfully), didn’t have any major medical expenses, my fear of what would happen to me in this country if I became seriously ill was palpable. I could only dream of something like the Swiss plan in the U.S. – here’s hoping it becomes a reality!
Wow Steve, I'd rate this for the photos alone. Why don't we just admit they have it right and just flat out borrow their system? Hmm
That would make too much sense wouldn't it?
RATED
Thank you, Dr. Steve, for a well written, provocative post, and for bringing a Nobel Laureate to the table.
The existing American model of healthcare is a system of cost shifting and subsidies which hides under the umbrella of capitalism, but which in reality is nothing like a market driven system. The consumer has no ability to compare or even understand costs, and depends on others to pay the bills. The complexity and specialized knowledge base of health care make it highly unlikely that most citizens could ever become well enough informed consumers to make a truly market driven system work. The alternative is providing a fair playing field through regulation, as well as control over excess spending.
Dr. Moore suggests a Swiss model would not work in the U.S., primarily due to the larger number of low income and no income citizens in America. Kanuk has done a good job of citing the evidence that U.S. uncontrolled healthcare costs have contributed to worsening that socioeconomic divide. He cites a 1999 statistic that the cost of U.S. healthcare was about $1060 per person per year. That figure is now about $7700, more than a 700% increase in 10 years. Most of us would agree that the system is not seven times better than it was 10 years ago.
One way to cover those who fall into that very low income group is to have a public health care plan - in essence, to expand Medicare availability to them, and to pay for it with some of the money which has gone to our huge increase in healthcare spending compared to other countries without a similar increase in quality.
The Swiss system simply regulates a basic level of fairness for the health care industry. If it is socialism to suggest that something as critical as healthcare have rules of fairness applied to it, then count me in as a socialist!
The final piece of reform, unfortunately not much discussed, is the need for greater cost control, which will pay for care for the underinsured. To control costs, we are talking about demanding healthcare providers show that their services provide benefit or that they are not gaming the system. And yes, it will require some type of rational adminstration. Rational doesn't mean "death panels." It means not trying to hold Dr. Moore or Dr. Blevins accountable for not ordering every test twice; it means not doing back surgery when physical therapy will give the same results; it means not paying $400 per month for a medication when an equally effective but less advertised generic goes for $65.
Ultimately, though, Dr. Moore gets to the nut of the issue. What kind of people are we going to be? Are we going to consider food and water and shelter and healthcare ultimately to be the right of every human? Is that what this country is all about!?
I hope so.
@ John E Moore

"Bobby G ---Liberal is a euphamism"
___

LOL! Learn to spell, troll. And, yes, you are a troll. No avatar pic, no posts, you just signed up an account so you could crack on others anonymously.
This just makes me want start singing ...

The hills are alive ... with the sound of music ...

Great post, Dr. Steve :) You do brilliant very well.
Well done Dr. Blevins.
Thanks Steve...I loved learning more about the Swiss health care system, and the pictures...I've been fortunate enough to have traveled there twice...it's tough to argue with what you're advocating. Thanks for this important post.
Carey Krause Thank you for your comment and thank you Dr. Blevins. Although I don't quite aggree with you but I aggree we can disagree without being disaggreable. Yor coment hit the salient points, But do you really believe the government should provide us with food?

John E Moore MD
Words: those slippery things.
Government exists to provide a way for people of different beliefs to come together for the common good. So, yes, I think helping to equalize access a basic necessity like food is a fundamental responsibility of government in a large, multi-opinionated society. Hence the existence of the FDA and school lunch programs, just to give a couple of examples.
And I know I'm going to hate myself later for mentioning this, considering civil discourse and all, but isn't "salient point" redundant?
Let's not forget their great chocolate.
"If Obama takes us as far as Switzerland, he will have done us all an incalculable service."
amen
First of all, you're making me want to move to Switzerland. Beautiful country.

Second of all, this is one of the best written articles I have read explaining the entire system. Thank you for writing it; I've shared it with my friends.
@John E Moore MD -

Hey John, how's that tort reform working out for Texas? Has it reigned in all those medical costs for the patients and doctors now that they finally passed it?

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1025-14.htm

http://www.ibjonline.com/print_medical_malpractice_tort_reform.html

And yet, patients in Texas report no reduced medical care costs, no reduced insurance costs, and basically, no benefit to the end consumer.

Basically, "tort reform" is a red herring. We'll talk about it when we have guaranteed health care for all.
What a bunch of tripe. Not only was it not informative and condescending, it misrepresented the American and Swiss systems.

"Most Americans rely on an unregulated insurance industry, which fails on most counts:"

Except for the accounts that despite having horrible diets, Americans live close to the same age as other socialized countries?

"costs are exorbitant,"

You fail to say why. For some reason liberals automatically assume its because greedy insurance ceo are raising costs to make profit. But only .5 percent goes to payroll - including the "fatcats". If you look at the numbers, medicare and lawsuits are contributing far more to the costs than the drive for profit.

"outcomes are poor,"

For who? For what? I have been able to get everything I need, when I need it. So you throw some anecdotal experience at me. So? Anyone can do that. Fact is, we have it good, and most people think so.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/102934/majority-americans-satisfied-their-own-healthcare.aspx

"coverage is restricted, and patient satisfaction is low"

What are you talking about? Where is coverage not restricted? to what degree? Also, see above polling data.

This isn't a factually based argument, this is a post full of liberal talking points spiced up with pretty pictures to make you feel nice. Come on people.

"Oh so what should we do then?"

TORT reform.
HSA's.
Tax Credits.
Let them cross state lines.
Allow more competitive plans (currently state regulated/restricted)
More choices for people (variation of plans)
Incentives for healthy lifestyle
@Arjibuh -

I simply suggest you read this, and get back to me - will ya?

http://collinskeith.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/on-healthcare-reform/

I guess guys like him are just acceptable losses in our dog-eat-dog system, eh?
While we have a for-profit system at work "health care" will be fought over and fear will be used to manipulate the masses. If it was and if it could be about caring for people than the reasonable approach that the Swiss have modeled for us (and you have presented here) would be achievable and perhaps desirable.

I fear the corporate powers that be have too much sway for health care to be about caring for people. I'm generally not so cynical but I must have forgotten to put on my rose-tinted glasses this morning.
Steve - how do I love thee? Let me count the ways... er, posts. This is a wonderful piece.
Nice job, Sir Blevins. I feel healthier already...yet still uninsured. Move this baby around. People should know the breakdown of these various systems for better overall understanding. Submit it to other places.