Steve Klingaman

Steve Klingaman
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Minneapolis, Minnesota,
Birthday
January 01
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Consultant/Writer
Bio
Steve Klingaman is a nonprofit development consultant and nonfiction writer specializing in personal finance and public policy. His music reviews can be found at minor7th.com.

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FEBRUARY 3, 2011 8:32AM

Is Health Care Reform Unconstitutional?

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Florida lower court judge Roger Vinson’s verdict that the individual mandate is unconstitutional proves the strategy of judge shopping really works.  The 26 right-leaning state attorneys general reaped a bonus when the U.S. District Court in Pensacola, Florida decided that the individual mandate was so intrinsic to the law that the entire law was unconstitutional, pronouncing, “The act, like a defectively designed watch, needs to be redesigned and reconstructed by the watchmaker.” This means the score to date is 2-2 in terms of various judges around the country deciding this or that about the law.

            In this case, the only court that matters is the one for which you cannot judge-shop. And ever since Gore v. Bush, and reinforced by Citizen’s United, the blinders are off as to the political susceptibility of our Supreme Court.  Why should a ruling on The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act be any different? But let’s say for a moment that legal arguments matter.  What exactly is the case for the constitutionality of the health care reform act?

            First, let’s not forget that this health care model was a conservative idea before it was a liberal one, one that, as the Washington Post’s Ezra Klein reminds us, moderate Republicans had been pushing for two decades.  The core issue so far is that of regulating interstate commerce, buttressed of late by the very broad language of “necessary and proper” Congressional authority to pass laws that, more less, just get ‘er done, as found in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

            To begin to lay out the intellectual framework of the meaning of all this, let’s take trip to the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.  In honor of Judge Vinson, let’s make it the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.  Right there on its website we find:

I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory?

Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance.

            Anyone notice anything suspiciously unconstitutional about this statement? Yes, the state is requiring that the consumer purchase a commercial product.  And what kind of product is it?  Insurance.  And why would the big, bad state require this action?  To create a system of uniform consumer protection so that uninsured drivers can’t run up the cost of insurance on the part of those who already carry insurance to protect them from uninsured drivers.

            To me this would seem to be a slam-dunk argument that government, in the generic sense, has an undisputed right to protect the body politic by requiring actions on the part of the citizens that cause them, ipso facto, if you will, to buy a product.  There’s no end to the examples you find:  car seats, motorcycle helmets, in fact, a wide variety of items, accessories, safety devices and whatnot.  So, at its base, the overheated argument commonly expressed as (from Google) “Being forced to buy a private sector product or service is no where [sic] in the Constitution” is just a canard.  The requirement to purchase an item is strictly attendant on some greater issue such as regulations in the interest of public safety.

            The example above is admittedly the example of a state government. What about the federal government?  The power to regulate interstate commerce is on its face a who-buys-what-and-how issue.  And the amplification of that power provided by Article I, Section 8 does not emanate from legal aether either (!), but from a solid tradition of government intervention along the lines of the automobile insurance model.

            I admit, I don’t like the insurance mandate as a means to universal coverage; I would have preferred a universal health care system.  But never mind that, this is what we’ve got—if luck holds out.  There is a trade off involved for those who would otherwise buy insurance only after they got sick and drop it once cured, if allowed—our deadbeat nation as the foes of reform would have it.  They have no viable individual (interstate) market because the best part of the market is already tied up in employer plans, leaving a remaining pool for the unemployed, underemployed, free lancers and people who happen to have preexisting conditions—which brings something about equal protection to mind, but never mind that.  In our society, we have this thing, this social covenant, that we do not allow people to die on the streets (unless they are undocumented workers maybe).  That leaves taxpayers holding the colostomy bag for any uninsured person who gets really sick. 

            Now, the conservative laissez faire vision of let the market rule would work just fine if we were prepared to let people die on the streets, because the moral hazard would be so great that people would just say oh what the hell and buy insurance. Or whatever.  We’ll let the Cato Institute explain that.  But, at the moment, we have this thin veneer of civilized behavior that requires that once the disease is killing you we throw in the towel and treat you.

            And thus, the federal government has this systemic problem. The systemic problem indeed relates to interstate commerce—doesn’t everything in a way?  And the “necessary and proper” clause reinforces this because this is indeed a life-and-death dilemma—a fundamental if you will on par with the federal right to levy an income tax in the interests of paying for the services provided by government.

            So, at bottom, it’s just the wrong question—this thing about a commercial product.  We do it all the time.  Do you think you can get a federal Fannie Mae loan without having home insurance?  Isn’t that a commercial product? This wrong question is just another appearance of the old rhetorical tool of reductio ad absurdum, reducing the argument to a stupid question.  “Well nowhere in the Constitution does it say that we can force people to [fill in the blank].”  But the fact is, the government can, and at all levels, more or less, does.

            None of this means, however, that the Supreme Court will support the law as written.  The Supreme Court may just go 5-4 that this represents a new, incremental overreach; as if saying, all that other stuff, water over the dam, but this, this, is an outrage.  They just might say that—despite the logic, the case law, the precedents and the whole nine yards.  But certainly, sooner or later, we will find out the answer on this one.

 

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The thing is: you have a CHOICE to own or not own a car; you don't really have a CHOICE to have a body.
I appreciate the effort in mapping out the issues, but the truth is, this is a bald-faced political move from the right and nothing else. They couldn't have planned it better - and maybe they did. Get a conservative majority on the SCOTUS, get "activist" judges to declare any progressive legislation as unconstitutional on any pretext, put Citizens United money behind a campaign to push it to SCOTUS where Roberts et al declares it dead, and then effectively hobble any Democrat in office. And kill any law that doesn't funnel money into corporate pockets. Fait Accompli.
Ester, owning the car is not the problem, it is driving it on public roads where you may endanger others, and thus enter into a system, the insurance system. You can't opt out of insurance risk in that situation. Similarly, you can't opt out of a health care system that will not let you die on the streets. If you fall ill, and need medical care of the last resort, you will get it and your neighbors will get the bill in the form of increased taxes for county hospital unfunded care--after the hospital collection agency has bled you dry. Like it or not, your body is in the system.

Ardee, things may come to pass exactly as you have described them.
Oh, I don't want to be misconstrued. Not a right winger, but I also don't like the mandates. Apparently they were originally a republican idea: yes.
Ester, I don't like the mandate either. It is a clumsy way to accomplish the necessary expansion of the risk pool. But the instant this particular model was adopted as the basis of the legislation we were stuck with it as an integral part of the design. Personally, I don't have a better idea given the parameters and assumptions of the model as passed into law.
Ester's right, Steve, all the "mandates" you used as examples involve the notion that if you want the Govt. to provide you a service then you must perform some action to get it accomplished. Drive on govt roads; buy insurance, Get a govt loan; buy fire insurance on the property.
In the health insurance instance the Govt is providing nothing except a mandate that all must buy. Clearly, it seems to me to be unconstitutional.
A single payer system, I believe, is the only viable alternative.
RE: providing nothing. Wrong. The government is providing a guarantee of care in the last resort.

Just a snippet from wikipedia: "The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions."

BTW, care mandates extend beyond these emergency provisions as well.

While not all hospitals participate and funding does not come directly from the federal government (leading some to complain, with reason, of "unfunded mandates", participating hospitals are eligible to receive or do receive federal funds. Federal funding is more or less funnelled indirectly from the feds, to the state, then down to the country, although much of it comes straight from state or local taxes, including property taxes.

The argument you make works best in a pure pay-as-you-go system where before you receive medical care, the hospital conducts a biopsy of your wallet. And if you don't measure up, you can check in with the Sisters of Mercy, 19th Century style.
Like Ester, I don't find the auto insurance argument all that persuasive. Someone can choose not to drive or own a car. Someone could choose not to ride a bike and thereby not be required to buy a bike helmet. Someone could choose to walk or take public transportation wherever they go and not be subject to these requirements. (Unlikely, perhaps, but possible.)

However, unless we, as a society, decide that we actually are willing to let people die in the streets (I hope there is still a strong majority of people out there who would find this morally reprehensible), I don't see how the interstate commerce clause doesn't provide for the insurance mandate in the law, as you suggest. Anybody who goes on vacation or a business trip in another state, happens to get in a car accident, and gets treated at the local hospital -- whether insured or not -- would be in the flow of interstate commerce.

Seems to me that the Republicans are boxing themselves in with these legal challenges. Suppose the Supreme Court does rule that the law is unconstitutional because of the individual mandate, but they leave the rest of the law intact. (The lack of a severability clause in the legislation complicates this, but they could still invalidate part of the law but not the whole thing.) Seems to me there'd be three possible results: 1) insurance companies are unable to deny coverage, but they don't have the risk pool they need to be financially sustainable, leading to a whole lot of companies getting out of the business and likely screaming all the way to the bankruptcy court, 2) we go the Republican route of 50 state programs (which I could imagine being an even bigger nightmare than what we have now), or 3) people realize that we need a public option to finally fix the health care insurance system.
It is a matter of States rights vs. Federal. This is a federal overreach and constitutionally, the Federal Gov't cannot tell us what we must buy. They can't tell us what kind of car we must buy or what kind of insurance we must buy or [even tho they are trying to, what lightbulb to buy]. That's for Dictatorships to do.

Senator Obama said this himself before becoming President. He pointed out if you allow the Feds to tell you what you must buy, what would stop them telling everyone they must buy a house in order to end homelessness? The Supreme Court has no choice but to admit it's unconstitutional.
"...presidential candidate Barack Obama told Ellen DeGeneres that—unlike his opponent Hillary Clinton—he opposed forcing the uninsured to buy health insurance, saying that it would be like forcing the homeless to buy homes.
“Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it,” Obama said in a Feb. 28, 2008 appearance on Ellen DeGeneres' television show. "
As is it is wrong. All should be covered. It should cover doccumented and undoccumented alike.
I'm surprised that you fail to recognize the clear distinction between being required to buy insurance once a car has been purchased and being required to buy health insurance for the privilege of being alive.

The lower court analyzed it at great length. Unless the Supreme Court is somehow packed with liberals who put their collectivist agenda above the Constitution, the SCOTUS will follow suit and Congress can attack the health care issue afresh, from a more wholesome perspective.

Ester, Deborah, and John have it right.
The comparison with driving won't hold, Steve. You can do without one (theoretically) but not the other in the event you are seriously sick.

The mandate, any why you construct it, is a patch, a band-aid. But I, for one, think it's perfectly legal, and that it has plenty of case law to support it. (President George Washington *mandated* that every head of household keep a musket, sufficient balls and powder as a precaution against a re-invasion. The fed did not pay for them, either.)

I sometimes wonder if there might be some trickery here that the GOP didn't figure on:

If the SCOTUS rules the mandate to be unconstitutional, this will force taking a serious look at single payer as the only workable solution. Do Boehner and McConnell want to go back to re-litigating that piece all over again? I doubt it.

Lastly, though a Florida Court district judge (no John Marshall he!) has ruled that the entire bill be thrown out, there is no way that will happen. Important pieces of the bill are already in force and by the time the thing gets to the SCOTUS, we'll be too far down the road for the court to yank it all back. The genie is out of the bottle.

I see all this as skirmishing to get a decision on the mandate only. And, cynic that I am, I can't imagine the insurance industry is in a hurry to give away 35 million new customers. The insurance industry may instruct their toadies in Congress to lighten up.

It's all dependent on Anthony Kennedy, when you get right down to it! I hope he gets up on the right side of the bed come the day he writes his decision.
I only use the auto insurance article to set up the basic precedent in the broadest sense. And as to the driving is a privilege argument, don't forget that it is the government that establishes driving as a privilege.

You might want to check out Charles Fried, Ronald Reagan's solicitor general on this topic. He argues there is no question: it is constitutional under the interstate commerce clause.

In the briefest terms, he writes, "If insurance is commerce, then of course the business of insurance is commerce."

The full report, testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee released yesterday, is here: http://judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/11-02-02%20Fried%20Testimony.pdf
I don't have any worhwhile contribution to this piece or the discussion thread, but just wanted to acknowledge I've read and found it rather informative. Thank you. Rated.
The federal government requires various corporations to purchase insurance and the states require individuals to purchase car and sometimes, renters' insurance. If corporations and individuals are legally equivalent, then there is a strong pre-existing precedent for the federal gvt to require individuals to have health insurance.


If we had full public health care, all would be good.
Steve,

The problem is all the things you put forth as require you to commit the first act. You have to buy a car, buy a bike etc. There are other problems with your car insurance.

In my state and others you don't have to buy car insurance. You have to post a bond or prove that you have the ability to pay damages if you cause an accident and are sued. Most of us just buy car insurance.
The Federalist Society argument (as that's what this coordinated judicial effort is) is absurd on a few levels, but the way they see it that doesn't matter. After all, it IS an argument.
The opening for the Federalist 4 and sometime sidekick Kennedy to rule against it is the unpopularity of the mandate. However, I have noticed the public has put this issue aside, somewhat, so that adds a new dimension.
It's all politics, and has little to do with anything else.
An argument has been made by some knowledgeable people that the right wing is actually shooting themselves in the foot by declaring Obamacare unconstitutional. If the whole baby (massively benefiting the insurance companies as it is) is thrown out with the bathwater, then there are only TWO programs that are capable of containing health care costs and keeping people from just dying on the streets.

Those two programs are








Medicare & Medicaid! Which automatically means










single payer health care.

I don't think the insurance companies and their Republican finger puppets want that. Maybe the GOP will think that Obamacare is okay after all. ;)
"the moral hazard would be so great that people would just say oh what the hell and buy insurance. Or whatever. We’ll let the Cato Institute explain that"

Well, they might buy insurance under those circumstances IF they could afford it, but given the impoverishing effects of Free-Marketeering that kept the minimum wage static for a decade -- among other travesties -- they can't afford it -- which is why they end up charity cases. Frankly, I prefer to let the Cato Institute try to explain the economic soundness of that folly.

In my view, the legal basis for universal healthcare is laid out quite succinctly in the Preamble where one of the primary duties of the govt is to "promote the general welfare". It is patently absurd to suggest -- as some Conservatives do -- that the Constitution is somehow superior to the demands that call that body of laws into existence.

Who is fool enough to argue that it is proper for the laws within the Constitution to defeat the very purposes for which that document was created? Anyone who would do so needs to be reminded of the words of a man far wiser than any judge on this court:

"Man was not made for the law, but the law for Man". Mark 2: 27
Steve your basic facts and arguments are just plain factually wrong.
First of all, the requirement to purchase auto insurance is to protect me from getting hurt by you, and you having
not the means of making me whole.

It has NOTHING to do with spreading cost of auto insurance over a pool to keep it cheap. If only one person in a whole state drove a car no one would give a damn how much it cost him for insurance.
And have you noticed that rates are based on many statistics and demographics. Which isn't not how people want heath care insurance to work. As you said preferably free for everyone is what is wanted.

Every example you site of gov involvement has got a "privilege" to be able to do something attached to it. I don't need a helmet if I don't ride a bike. If the insurance mandate stood, then it would follow that everyone could be required to buy a helmet just to keep cost down. Maybe everyone should but an electric car to keep the cost down, even people that don't drive.

There would be no end, on any political side, what could be required of you to spend money on.

Please name one thing the gov regulates in your life that you do NOT do or engage in. And it need to be something that is not tax based, because the is law is not a tax.

Will Bill Gates ever be a financial burden on the health care system. No. So how can you argue he needs insurance. He does not. You cannot make anyone buy something for doing noting other than existing.
If that becomes true I will guarantee that you will not like the ramifications. Be careful what you ask for.
Maybe you will be required and iPad and the new news app from Murdoch because the congress passes a law saying so. After all everyone should be informed.

Name one thing you are required to buy just because you exist.
BTW exactly what part of A1 S8 do you find so compelling
to your arguments. Yes, that is where the commerce clause is.
That is what is being questioned. Is there another part that you think
allows for the mandate. What supports your "get it done" argument?

And did you notice the "general welfare" clause is preceded by the word "tax" not "require citizens to buy"?
Tom -

"Who is fool enough to argue that it is proper for the laws within the Constitution to defeat the very purposes for which that document was created?"



Apparently those that think the mandate is constitutional. Of course it is not proper that any law could be considered constitutional if it made the constitution useless or contradicted the constitution . The mandate does exactly that.
And if "promote the general welfare" meant anything damn thing to everyone, then why bother with even writing the rest of the document.
Why not just create the gov. and then say whatever the hell congress wants to do to OK? Well because this was not the intent.
Specifically it was not the intent to leave "anything" to the fed gov.
Nothing says the states can't do a hell of a lot (except whats not constitutional :) ), but there is a reason that the intent was to limit he fed gov.

Do you honestly think the citizens of all the states would have joined the union with your vision in mind. I don't think so.

The constitution was not written perfectly. Nor can anyone read the mind of the founders. But one thing is for certain. It was written for the protection of the states (and the people) against the centralization of gov. There is no other reason for its existence.
The states and the people were here for the reason to be not under the rule of overbearing gov. They were not here to agree to put themselves right back under a over controlling central gov.
If the perception at the time is what many liberals perceive today, the states would have never agreed.

Do you really think if this issue came up before joining the union,
all the states would have joined with liberal interpretations of
the commerce clause and the general welfare clause. I think not.
It is exactly what they did not want and fought a war over.
It's simple...the government has the responsibility to formulate legislation that "promotes the general welfare". Therefore, whether one agrees with a mandate or not is really not the question. As for whether or not the Supreme Court will overturn the healthcare law...my money is on them throwing it out. Not because they should, but because otherwise you allow that "boy" in the White House a legacy of having accomplished what no president before him could.

There has always been the understanding that the law was not perfect, but a foundation that needed to be improved (like all major legislation). Clearly, it can be fixed...a repeal is totally unnecessary.
Tom - "Man was not made for the law, but the law for Man". Mark 2: 27

Even if this came from God and you and I both agreed it did and was true, how do you think it vindicates your point of view.
We would still disagree.
Bravo!!! No one likes to mandated. But I'm tired of paying for your gnarly ass when you use the ER as your primary physician. The only way to make this work is to make sure everyone is covered or the same slackers will use the system and we will be paying for them over and over again. You want to opt out? OK if you get hit by a car by a guy that doesn't have insurance be prepared to set that broken leg by yourself.
Joseph Cole--I'm going to cut you some slack and assume you aren't a heartless asshole despite the fact that apparently you'd rather doom everyone, and I mean everyone, except the most obscenely wealthy, to an early death for lack of treatment (and for not being wealthy enough), or to bankruptcy because of illness. And all for what would cost all of us less in taxes. I wish you people could count better.

Try reading Tom's blog before continuing your argument. What is happening to Tom and his wife is an excellent example of why we do need single payer and why anything less is repulsively wrong.
We see many of the ways not to "get it" listed below, and I am not going to simply repeat the interstate commerce clause. I guess the meaning of the word "regulate" is just not well-understood.

Here's Professor Fried before the Senate Judiciary committee three days ago:

"Sen. Durbin: The point raised by Senator Lee – the “buy your vegetables, eat your vegetables” point? I’d like you ask to comment on that because that is the one I’m hearing most often. By people who are saying “Well, if the government can require me to buy health insurance, can it require me to have a membership in a gym, or eat vegetables?” We’ve heard from Professor Dellinger on that point, would you like to comment?

Prof. Fried: Yes. We hear that quite a lot. It was put by Judge Vinson, and I think it was put by Professor Barnett in terms of eating your vegetables, and for reasons I set out in my testimony, that would be a violation of the 5th and the 14th Amendment, to force you to eat something. But to force you to pay for something? I don’t see why not. It may not be a good idea, but I don’t see why it’s unconstitutional."


And CatnLion: I think anyone who can put up an unencumbered million dollar bond demonstrating that they can indeed fund their own care for a catastrophic illness should be exempt from an insurance requirement.
I am aware of Tom's situation. And I am not saying that only the wealthy should get health care. I said why should the wealthy have to buy insurance? Or anyone that does not want to. I am not an ER abuser. I have insurance and my buying it is a choice. I also carry 1 million in auto liability because if i should do harm to someone
want to be responsible for it. The 15 - 20k required my most states
is really ridiculous isn't it?

This is a constitutional discussion. You cannot fix a societal problems by passing an unconstitutional law. Can you pass a not perfect law and modify it? Sure as long as it is not unconstitutional and that is what the judge is saying. Go back and fix it.
BTW, I have severe health problems of my own. I am fighting SS and private disability. Except for the concern of health care, I have enough money to retire ok at 54. So I guess I should just be in favor of what makes life good for me. But I do not support things just because it is for my benefit. Single payer would be the best thing in the world for me right now. But good for me is a selfish attitude.

BTW, I am having far better success with my fight against the evil corp. than I am having with SS. So far my private policy has paid for 3 yrs (with challenges and threats of lawsuit). But where am I with SS? No where after 3 years. This is the program I paid almost 200K into for almost 40 years. Where is is for me now?
I will be lucky to get what was promised at 65. I doubt I will ever get the disability payments.

My brother is retired early and has a 1k annual deductible. That is what he can afford and works for him. He will not abuse the ER. He is good for the 10K any year he needs to pay it. Obamacare makes that illegal. Why? He is forced to buy a Cadillac plan just so such plans will be cheaper for others.

Also TX has a remedy for me. It is the TX Risk Pool.
What is wrong with letting states deal with this.
That is a "10K" deductible for my brother.
Sorry Joseph, but under the Constitution, citizens grant legislators broad powers to pass laws to accomplish the aims enumerated in the Preamble. That includes not only the duty “to provide for the common defence” but the duty to “promote the general welfare".

I repeat myself, but it is patently foolish to argue healthcare is outside the scope of general welfare. And in fact, the duty to "promote the general welfare" encompasses anything a law passed by legislators says it encompasses -- so long as the courts agree.

We shall see soon enough whether the Supreme Court agrees, tho I suspect by the time the case reaches the Court, the sweeping changes that ended such felonious practices as "pre-existing conditions" and "lifetime caps" and "experimental exclusions" will have become so welcomed by the vast majority of citizens, that reversing healthcare reform in toto will be a dicey proposition, even for this Court.

Conservatives tend to embrace defense and decry general welfare, but that doesn’t absolve them from their duty as citizens to pay taxes to achieve an aim with which they disagree. If that were so, Liberals would be well within their rights to refuse to pay taxes “to provide for the common defence” in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ironically, before Neocons and Onward Christian Soldiers religious fundamentalists took over the Republican Party, it was isolationist Conservative Republicans who used to rant against "foreign entanglements", and many present-day Libertarians continue to argue that way, putting them in bed with Liberals, and making for some very strange bedfellows. But I digress …
Joseph, you make yourself look foolish with your specious assertion people expect healthcare to be “preferably free for everyone”. Nobody I know imagines healthcare will be free – those who support a single-payer system, such as utilized in most western industrial democracies, understand perfectly well they will have to be taxed to support such a plan.

Please don’t bother with the foolish claim that half the population doesn’t pay taxes. While that may be true of FIT, the poor pay a far greater portion of their income in taxes than do the rich – state and local taxes such as property taxes, gasoline taxes, excise taxes, and SS and Medicare taxes. And as a matter of fact, according to statistics, most black males will not live long enough to collect on either SS or Medicare. Talk about unfair.

Libertarians and many present-day Conservatives want to be rid of such things as SS and Medicare, but as usual they are out of step with the vast majority of citizens – and with the law of the land. And when it comes to health insurance, they argue a single-payer system denies people “freedom of choice”.

But the fact is under our present system, most workers have little or no say about their plans or their insurers. Just how does that constitute “freedom of choice”? And how does that freedom jibe with the fact that a handful of companies like United and Wellpoint dominate the supposedly “free market”?

Supporters of a single-payer system would rather pay taxes – levied by legislators who are subject to recall at the ballot box – than pay premiums to insurance companies, whose executives are subject to nothing but profits, profits too often gained at the expense – and the health – of those they purport to insure.
You know the right has won the argument when they have everyone using the phrase "healthcare reform" for something that is in actuality "health insurance reform", and thinking those two terms are interchangeable. No healthcare laws have been passed or proposed at all.

This is just about shuffling money around from our pockets to the insurance industry. That inflates costs for everyone as already proven by the sky high costs that exist now. The idea that bringing more people into the system will lower costs is a fantasy, it just fuels the greed. Everyone's being wilfully ignorant in that regard so when the shit hits the fan with the mandates they can divert blame: "But they said this wouldn't happen!" Morons.

Mandated car insurance is for legal liability for damage you may cause to someone else, not for the car's "health". If McCain had proposed this the left would be outraged. Instead, the left has sold out for political power just like the right does. Only progressives sought true reform which is to take the greed out of the system. Anything else is a disaster.
Joseph, I’d like to cut you some slack, too, but you make that extremely difficult when you make statements like this:

“BTW, I have severe health problems of my own. I am fighting SS and private disability. Except for the concern of health care, I have enough money to retire ok at 54. So I guess I should just be in favor of what makes life good for me. But I do not support things just because it is for my benefit. Single payer would be the best thing in the world for me right now.”

Forgive me, but your martyr complex is all too glaringly obvious. How sad that you can’t see how truly selfish is your argument.

You say you have enough money to retire at 54 – how many other Americans do you think are in that position? And yet you say, you want monies contributed to SS by millions not in your advantageous position to be disbursed to you as disability payments, while at the same time arguing against SS. Sounds very much like you want to have your cake and eat it, too.

I don’t know anything about your medical condition, and I certainly don’t wish to litigate the matter here. But I can tell you it took only 30 days for SS to approve my wife’s disability payments. Naturally, that leads me to have suspicions about the viability of your case.

You say “single payer would be the best thing in the world for me now”. Well, if it would be best for someone of your means, imagine how much it would benefit those who have no insurance because they simply can’t afford it.

You say, sarcastically I assume, you guess you should just be in favor of what makes life good for you. No, Joseph, you should be in favor of what makes life best for all of us.
@Harry
You say "If McCain had proposed this the left would be outraged." McCain did propose this, and the Left was outraged -- and the Left is still outraged, and rightly so.

Even after getting the Health Insurers Welfare Plan they advocated in opposition to Clintoncare, the Right fought against their own plan for purely political purposes. Apparently, the Right refuses to take "yes" for an answer.

The Left, on the other hand, wanted a single-payer system that had NO chance of even being discussed in the fetid political environment fostered by rtwingnuts, so damn right, the Left is outraged.

The plain fact is the pendelum hasn't swung to the Left in this country since the mid-sixties, and there appears little chance of it doing so for the forseeable future. So the Left has had to swallow this half a loaf of moldy bread.
Steve
Sorry to have hijacked your post -- I'll shut up now
Tom, No problem! I have learned two thing by the reception of this post: I think this is going to become a bigger political and judicial issue than anyone imagined when the law was passed. And nearly all of the commenters who support expanded health care rights and access express pessimism that a politicized court will decide in favor of the individual mandate.
When the court threw the 2004 election to Bush, I said it. I now say it again. There has been a total takeover of our government by the Republican party. There is only one way to solve this problem, dare I say it?
I thought you made the perfect analogy, with auto insurance. But obviously to our right wing friends here, they cannot see any correlation.
The fact is, the government has every right to dictate that we all have insurance. They in fact do not have the right to tell us what company we must purchase it from! End of story, Ester, john and last but not least my old buddy Gordon. It is your friends in office, who gave us this wonderful thing, you so wrongly call "Obamacare".
Had it been that, we would have a one payer system!