Editor’s Pick
FEBRUARY 11, 2010 6:28PM

The Problem with Independent Movies

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  FishTank

 

 

 

 

I just finished watching Fish Tank, a much lauded independent film, written and directed by Andrea Arnold, starring newcomer Katie Jarvis and Inglourious Basterd Michael Fassbender. I disliked it intensely, and it made me think of another independent movie about a disaffected young woman, The Good Girl. Jennifer Aniston starred in Miguel Arteta’s film sight years ago, but not much has changed in Indie world since then. Life is still bleak, apartments are still grimy, people are still aimless and rude and self-absorbed. The camera is still-hand held, even if it’s digital now. Fish Tank looks like it might be the first film ever actually shot on someone’s smart phone. Though I suppose it would be an insult to the filmmakers to accuse them of buying such high-tech toys. I remember some indie film-maker joking at the Oscars a few years ago “This is surreal -- the dress I’m wearing tonight cost more than my movie.”

          But there’s more to the intemperate personalities and squalid settings of most independent films than cranky moods and low budgets. There’s a philosophy at work here, and it’s the philosophy that annoys me the most. The inverse snobbery of these films makes a brazen statement to the audience: “This is the truth. This is real life. Of course it’s ugly and unpleasant. If that’s too tough for you, there’s a Sandra Bullock movie playing next door. We are not here to entertain you. Get your infantile jollies elsewhere. We owe you nothing. We don’t make cheesy deals with jaded thrill junkies. Pay attention. Embrace your boredom and discomfort. Medicine is supposed to taste bad. Iodine is supposed to sting.”

          The clear implication is that they’re better than we are. It reminds me of an old girlfriend of mine who made an imperious virtue out of her self-inflicted misery. Sadness was more than unfortunate phase (or a clinical condition): it was a badge of honor. Attempts to cheer her up always ended in defeat – the fact that you were happy destroyed your credibility. Happy people were shallow, superficial children who didn’t grasp the appalling horror of the world, or the tragic ironies of human existence.

There’s only one thing to do with a person like that: flee.

          In much the same spirit, I rarely watch an entire independent film. Give me Sandra Bullock any time.

          Here’s why: regular movies like me. They want to win me over. They think (craven panderers!) that I need a reason to be interested in their characters and situations. They attempt to provide such reasons and in the process often wind up telling engaging stories populated with memorable people. You can trace this effort back to 1938, when Ernst Lubistch – along with screenwriters Billy Wilder and Charles Brakett-- invented the ‘meet cute’ Gary Cooper and Claudette Colbert are both shopping for pajamas, fighting with separate clerks because he only buys the bottoms and she only buys the tops. They make the obvious arrangement and they’re off to the races. Most importantly, we like both of them and actually care what happens to them.

          The great James M. Cain explains the point brilliantly in 1 1944 preface to a collection of novellas called Three of a Kind. He attributes the story-telling wisom he dispenses to theatrical producer William Harris Jr., who clarified things, thusly:

 

          In this story you think you want to write, they meet, they  have lunch, they talk, they like each other, they fall in love. That’s how it does happen. But I don’t pay $5.50 for that. It may be love but it’s not a play. I don’t feel anything, and making me feel is what you’re after. Look, I’m sitting at a window, looking down at the park. There’s  two benches there, one with a couple on it holding hands. Well, there’s no news in  that, is there? I guess they’re in love but they can go right down and get married and send me a card from Niagara Falls and I don’t care a bit. On the other bench is a girl reading a book. She’s got a little dog there, and every now and then she exercises him by throwing a ball out on the grass and making him bring it back. A guy comes along, takes a look at her, and passes by. When he takes another look at her, I know he likes her looks, and right away I wonder what’s going to happen. Now if she looks up from the book and jumps up and runs over to him and kisses him, it’s still love, but I’m bored. But if she looks up, and he walks away quick, I know they’re strangers. I see him stop at a peanut vendors, and I wonder what he’s up to. He buys peanuts, comes back, sits on the bench, pays no attention to her. But the dog he pats on the head He starts on the peanuts, but right away he peels one and pitches it up in the air for the dog. The dog catches it, pricks up its ears for another. Turns out the dog likes peanuts. Next thing, the girl is watching it and laughs. The guy raises his hat, moves over. They both play with the dog. He’s done it, Cain, he’s pulled something, he’s got me interested. I stay right there watching them. I ought to be writing a scene, but I want to see how this comes out. After a while, when he flags a cab and they all three drive off together, he, she. And the dog, they’re my favorite lovers that day. It’s the same way with anything you write. Before you can interest me in a story, you have to interest me in them.

 

This is the essential narrative truth that independent films no only fail to grasp but actually repudiate. They have their dogma (they even have a school of filmmaking called dogma), but I think something much less fancy and high-falutin’ is going on underneath the academic double talk.

It makes me think of the first lecture I ever attended at Vermont College, Douglas Glover’s Attack of the Copula Spiders. These insects were purely graphic: if a student used the verb ‘to be’ enough times on a page, Doug could draw a dot in the middle and draw lines out to all the examples until the page looked like a multi-legged spider: not a good thing. The verb to be is a mere connector; it doesn’t tell a story; you should never promote it to the fall-back verb in a tough sentence, I loved Doug’s example. The student writes, “The barn was red.” A perfectly acceptable sentence, grammatically correct an inoffensive. Try substituting a real verb – suddenly you’re telling a story, something like this, perhaps “Red paint peeled from the barn, revealing a scabrous undercoat that exactly matched the old man’s complexion as he hammered on the FOR SALE sign and walked away for the last time.”

Years of work with graduate writing students have helped Glover understand the subtle reason why so many students choose not to seek out the fresh sprightly interesting verb and settle instead for that lifeless stalwart of the passive voice,”to be”.

It’s too much work.

Finding the exciting, vivid verbs to drive your story means that you (and not the reader) have to do the work of imagining what’s really going on, how it looks and smells and feels. Student: “The rabbit was on the lawn”

Or you could write it as Keats did, as quoted by F. Scott Fitzgerald in a letter to his daughter (“lucky girl,” Doug added), explaining in great prose verbs drive the sentences:

“The hare limped, trembling, through the frozen grass.”

So am I saying that Independent filmmakers are lazy? No – just the talented ones.

I don’t care about the others. But ones who do have a spark need to get to work. They have to realize that watching an angry teen-ager yell at everyone in her path for the first fifteen minutes of a film gives me no reason to care whether or not she finds love with her mother’s boyfriend at the end. They have to realize that a juiceless, washed out character like Jennifer Aniston’s Justine Last in The Good Girl presents no feature of interest. People like her exist? So what? When I was reading scripts for a Hollywood agent, every bad writer played the same card: “It’s a true story.” Nothing matters less. True stories have no third acts. True stories happened to you – I need something to happen to me. Forget the true story. Tell me the interesting story.

That’s how you get from the Independent Spirit Awards to the Oscars.

 

         

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Wellll...I'm on the fence here. I love some indie films. But I loved your description of your former girlfriend in all her glorious misery.
I have a friend like that...I had to tell her just how UNsympathetic and UN glamorous her "posing" realy was. Good advice to all film makers really!
Let's hope this is just a bad patch, else we'll all be at the mercy of the corporate studios and their clones of tried and true stories and styles, with no way for new talent, a la Hopper, Lucas, Waters, even Spielberg, to break in. Makes me wonder if some of the corporate mediocrity mentality isn't trickling down with some marketing cash into the indie milieu, as well. (r)
You make some relevant points, but I think you weaken your argument buy lumping all indies into the same crap pile. And indie is such a fluid term these days, all the majors have indie divisions which are basically iterations of their corporate junk. And I couldn't disagree with you more about your last sentence, Oscar wouldn't know quality if it jumped up and bit him on his gold keester. Still, rated.
Very well said. makes sense. I was never a big Indie fan, probably for those same reasons.
Steve give me some characters with brains and some good dialogue and I'll watch it. Otherwise no thanks.
Though I'm being careful not to generalize, this is true of far too many indie films (and also literature and music). I would say to the filmmakers: "You know I have to fork over my hard-earned money to spend two hours with these depressing nitwits. Why would I want to do that?"

Films can be enjoyable and still deliver hard truths.
theres low budget, and theres independent, and the two are not necessarily the same, but some interesting points here....
A couple of small points. I didn't mean to say ALL independent films are bad ... there've been great ones, from The Return of the Secaucus Seven to Sling Blade. But far too many of them fall into the paradigm I describe.
Sactogator ... that dig at the Oscars felt a little reflexive Think about the winning movies, from "All About Eve' to "All the King's Men", from "Amadeus" to "Annie Hall" to "American Beauty" ... and that's just the As. More to the point, compare classic Oscar bait underdog "The Hurt Locker" with the classic indie downer "The Messenger" -- that tells you all you need to know about the disparities between mainstream and Indie film. "The Hurt Locker" has strong characters drawn in tight, compelling, suspenseful scenes ("If I'm gonna die I want to to die comfortable", says Jeremy Renner's character, shrugging off his body armor); "The Messenger" offers drones, weighed down by their trite tragic histories going nowhere fast. It was boring but I learned some hard truths (I guess).I'm sorry but that's not enough for me.
If you've been lucky enough not to suffer through "Downloading Nancy," let me strongly urge you to continue to live without experiencing that visually gangrenous, aesthetically bankrupt romp through human misery.

On the other hand, there are some indie films I love beyond measure.

I think I object to the subgenre of angsty, unpleasant, wallow-in-my-navel films just as much as you do. But have you seen "Sleep Dealer"? "Sugar"? "Donnie Darko" was an indie...
Steven, I loved "The Hurt Locker," been a fan of Renner's from back when he was showing guys like Colin Farrell what a real film badass is (S.W.A.T.-the movie sucked but Renner was mucho memorable as a macho strutting sociopathic ex-cop, plus he's a local Modesto boy). Haven't seen "The Messenger" or "Fish Tank," though I'll take your word for the two. But it's still apples and oranges when it comes to the Oscars, the big films have the big studios pumping small fortunes into PR campaigns, while the "smaller" indies with their less than impressive budgets (that you must admit you take them to task for, though I don't know why) are lucky to pay the caterers. I'm not defending every indie, but for every "Fish Tank" there's a "Night at the Museum" or "Transformers" or the hundreth sequel of those Pirate movies from the Disney ride blah blah. And come on, Sandra Bullock? Really? I challenge you to sit through "The Lake House" or "Miss Congeniality (I or II, your choice) or even her own shot at ugly, but still Hollywoodized, truth, "28 Days." I don't mind a little escapism, but the way Hollywood is utterly unable to deviate from the rote happy (or at least inoffensive) ending makes me not mind a little misery, occasionally, with my popcorn.
Just a minor point: The woman who won the Oscar and made the quip about her dress was actually a documentary filmmaker (Jessica Yu). She won the Oscar for her documentary film "Breathing Lessons: The Life and Work of Mark O'Brien", a writer who is confined to an iron lung.
Stay away from Indie Chick Flicks!

They're the pits.
Jeanette Demain -- thanks so much! I wracked my brain trying to remember who she was, and then tried all kinds of bizarre google searches (Why doesn't someone have an archive of great Oscar acceptance speeches?), all to no avail. Your comment proves that people are a better resource than the most sophisticated search engine (at least sometimes).
Couldn't agree with you more. You can drop angsty 'independent' books and plays into that pile, too.
Not all of them are post-modern depress fests; Pi is a major statement for instance.
Some of it is marketing, like, an independent film is supposed to be weird and sad.
But, Hollywood to me seems to have a creative dearth too, hence all the remakes and cartoons.
What I wish is that the Comcast buyout would be made conditional on setting up regional art centers to tell tales of what people are really like in different parts of the country, which would have moments, like all of life, of joy and total horror, but in the context of the sub-cultural diversity that is a strong, and conflictual, point of this country.
So...you're saying mainstream films are like dogs and independent films are like cats? I think I agree with that!

But I think your descriptions fit some independent films but far from all of them. So I think you're wildly generalizing to make your case.

I'll try not to write my own blog post in your comments but the short version of what I think is: Good independent films do precisely what all good films do: They tell a complete and compelling story that is emotionally satisfying. They do this with less resort to the usual cliches of movies and artificial aids to feeling (like amped up music, megawatt stars and droolworthy production values). They are more realistic, but like all art, they are still heightened versions of reality manipulated to create an emotional experience. They're just more subtle and more daring in content than mainstream, and usually contain more realistic performances, sets, situations, dialogue, etc.

My other response would be that some of us find mainstream movies unutterably depressing in the exact same way that you find indies. Nothing depresses me more than a big budget slam-bang movie that has nothing but action, without any wit or real story or character development. I feel like I'm being beaten in the head with a baseball bat by those. (I do enjoy well-made, imaginative action, scifi, etc. movies.) I also find most mainstream dramas and romantic comedies god-awful. The obviousness and manipulation of them makes me want to scream, and yes, depresses me.

My Holy Grail is a movie that surprises me, that takes me some place unexpected, and that in the end makes me feel a genuine emotion. The vast majority of mainstream movies fail me on both counts. Far more indies succeed on one and often both.

Some recent examples off the top of my head would be The Visitor, Little Miss Sunshine, The Savages...and of course, The Hurt Locker.

I wonder if actually the difference might be whether people prefer a predictable entertainment experience or an unpredictable one (including whether you walk out having liked it or not). I'm firmly in the latter camp, but I also know I'm in the minority of the audience....at least in the U.S.
Silkstone ... a couple of points. There's a little straw man effect going on in your comment with the assumption that I prefer Hollywood crap to thoughtful independent movies. Holklywood is a big target, but even a cursory look at the list of Academy Award winners refutes the idea thatall big-budget peer-praised movies are simple, or have happy endings. Going back to the As, as I did in a previous comment, Amadeus, Annie Hall, American Beauty, a bouquet of modern winners, re anything but predictable pap. But calling Little miss Sunshine and The Hurt Locker 'indie films' is strething it a little. Ev en the Visitor had star power and a decent budget ... along with a suitable miserable and depressing finale. If indies surprise you more often, it's probably because you're not as familiar with their formulas. I'm rarely surprised by one these foggy gloomfests. That being said, I've enjoyed more than my share of small films. "Dirty Pretty Things" comes to mind as one of the best ever.
FYI, everyone ... I just found out that the Doug Glover lecture I quote in my post was published a few years ago:

“The Attack of the Copula Spiders: Some
Thoughts on Writing Well in a Post-Literate Age” The New Quarterly,No. 103, Summer 2007

It's worth tracking down ...
"Movie Geek" is a good film. I agree that trying to label "Indie" as a genre seems kinda weird. I also don't get people that say they're into "Anime" That's like saying "I'm into live action films". But I get your point and I think we all know what type of films you're talking about.
You made me laugh, but you can't make me watch Sandra Bullock. Please god no. Lots of good small films. Lots of stinkers too. My husband always tells me before I pick a film "think mainstream Please" aw, thats no fun. I think the mainstream theaters have many more stinkers. Guess thats why they make strawberry or some cliche.
Yes, but I'd add that it's not just independent film makers that are lazy, but the whole industry.
Thank you for this entry, and my God do I agree with you. While I am a fan of small British movies, big luscious Hollywood movies, foreign films and even some trashy action and chick flicks, self-consicous indie movies are not in my NetFlix queue for the reasons you state. Half the time I think the problem is that the makers all fall into the young 'n misunderstood demographic, where everything looks bleak and nearly black and white.

Any octogenerian indie filmmakers? Cheerful middle aged women film makers?
It would help if you could define "independent" or "indie." You seem confused by the term, first suggesting it has something to do with content, but then later alluding to the size of budget or presence of stars as a determining factor. Historically, "independent" referred strictly to production financing that came from non-traditional (i.e. not Hollywood studios) sources; it did not relate to cast or story in any fashion. There are few who use it strictly to refer to "non-traditional content," although those few do have a strong argument that even independently financed films can have "Hollywood stories," and alternately studio-financed features can deal with traditionally independent themes. You might have a better argument if you could decide exactly what constitutes "independent" in your mind.
S., I love Indie films, but not ALL indie films. This one doesn't interest me. I love regular films, too....I love stories that are interesting and well told. I don't care how much they cost to shoot, as long as they are entertaining. Yes, entertaining. So much for my rant.
I agree to a certain extent, but give me indie over the contrived, cheesy templates that Hollywood puts out anymore. Great thought-provoking post, nonetheless.
I agree to a certain extent, but give me indie over the contrived, cheesy templates that Hollywood puts out anymore. Great thought-provoking post, nonetheless.
I think picking the worst examples of a genre and comparing them to the best examples of another genre is not a fair way to make an argument. I enjoy all kinds of films, but very few Hollywood movies have interested me in a long time. I prefer dialogue and character over "it blows up real good" and special effects. I can only watch so many franchises and package deal-movies before my head begins to spin. I'd rather watch someone attempt something different, even if they fail, than stick to the paint-by-numbers formula of so many big-budget Hollywood flicks. I like all kinds of movies, but if I have a choice between indie and the same old, same old, I'll try the indie first.
SO good. You know...about twenty minutes into a Sundance film I'd heard a lot about this year, I felt the same way. I wanted to be fascinated. But I just wasn't. So I tried another--Comcast On Demand had them all, so I was spending money to do this, mind you. And I was disappointed by almost all. I dunno, but...it's still, in the end, about "story" of some kind. As a fledgling screenwriter--one option, small indie company--I fight that sometimes, because it too often means a guru "formula." But my late friend, screenwriter Blake Snyder, who often infuriated me but also kept me honest, used to stop me in mid pitch, patiently, and say, "It's a story about a woman who...." And I was supposed to go on from there, like Dinesen in "Out of Africa." I hated it. But it's what I really want when I sit down to watch something, I have to admit. And too many indies just don't give me that. There are dozens of way to do it, and now and then someone does it brilliantly in a form that really is new and fascinating. But too often...it's as you say. Thanks for saying it!
Brian ... First of all, having just watched both versions of
"Funny Games" (curiosity killed the masochist) I can certainly speak for Haneke's ability to alienate audiences. I just think it's a little too easy. Creating something valid and complex they can relate to is a lot harder. That was the purpose of quoting Doug's lecture: much of what passes for a kind of sublime disinterest in the greasy mechanics of story- telling is simply a refusal to do the actual work that telling meaningful stories requires ... whether it's artiulating a coherent plot or (as Doug's pointed out) finding a lively verb to move the action forward.
In any case, four out of your five examples of indie film are seriously flawed. I can't speak for the work of John Waters since I find it uniquely unwatchable (Too bad because he's hilarious when he talks to Terry Gross) But "Juno", with its Hollywood royalty director (Ivan Reitman's son) and its wildly ambitious mainstream wannabe writer (Diablo Cody -- check out her subsequent work) and "Reservoir Dogs" a first film by a madly ambitious, big time Hollywood bullseye heat seeking missile, Quentin Tarantino (his previous scripts had been made into big budget films by Oliver Stone and Tony Scott) is an 'indie' in name and budget only. Much the same could be said for 'Little Miss Sunshine', with it's big name cast -- (Oscar Nominee Greg Kinnear, Alan Arkin and Toni Collette, etc). Fox realized this when they bought it at Sundance in the richest deal in the festival's history. I didn't much like the film -- is that because its an actual indie film desperately trying to be mainstream? Or a cheesy mainstream film pimping for indie cred? Maybe it's just trite and bad. Anyway ... Easy Rider was another Hollywood brat movie, directed by a seasoned actor( "Rebel Without a Cause", "Giant") and starring the son of a Hollywood legend: not your usual profile for an independent film, though it does fall into the category by being aimless and cynical, with a suitably smug ,self-righteous downer ending.

The problem with 'social realism' is precisely what I sense in your comment, a vapor that comes off these grimy films like smoke off dry-ice: the feeling that realism trumps every other value; that the moral stature of the artist who 'dares' to 'tell the truth' invalidates any criticism of his ineptitude.
Sorry. I don't buy it.
Steve:

Another great rant. Nuthin' like 'em to get the viscous blood moving. Re Indies, I have to agree with those who opined that a movie is good or it isn't, and it doesn't matter a damn whether its Indie or Hollywood. On the other hand, I also feel that the total and utter commercialization of Hollywood has reduced the odds of them taking a risk on anything that won't ring the cash register big time; witness the preponderance of movies for infants of all ages, and non-stop fantasy and special effects in place of stories and real human drama.

I most enjoyed your tidbits on writing well, especially the James Cain and Dennis Glover examples.

I would love to see you as editor-guru of your very own journal and related blog--as another kind of bully pulpit and go-to for other talented, pithy characters who want to get into "print."
Brian ... I'll try to be brief since these ping pong comment debates probably bore everyone else to tears. I understood what Haneke was doing, thanks for the explanation. I just found it pretentious and off-putting.
Doug Glover's point had nothing to do with this ism versus that ism. This literary school of thought or that one. As he says elsewhere in the lecture, choose any writer you admire -- say, Orwell or Roth or Alexie. Take apart the sentences and count the verbs: you'll find they all use vivid, specific ones that make the story come alive. Fitzgerald chose Keats as an example. If you look you see them everywhere.And once again I have to clarify that I use 'independent film' as a kind of shorthand, a category defined by the problems I enumerate. Of course there are low budget films by unknown directors that are brilliant. But a surprising number of them (Spike Lee is a perfect example) move naturally into more mainstream story-telling. I like Lee's early movies; I enjoyed Slumdog Millionaire (which apparently employed many non white, non-middle class individuals). My mother worked for years in the civil Rights movement and ran a wildly successful Upward Bound program at Connecticut college, helping inner city kids get into college. Your casual back-handed insinuation of racism (or at least oblivious cultural isolation) I find irksome. Call me a bigot if you like, but find a better reason than the fact that I failed to mention Spike Lee in my post.
Lastly, your mention of the important 'topics' of social realism makes my point better than I could. Topics and messages and settings always come second to the narrative; but a good narrative embodies them and gives them a raw power that a strident lecture (however well-intentioned) can never equal.
the fact that you were happy destroyed your credibility. Happy people were shallow, superficial children who didn’t grasp the appalling horror of the world, or the tragic ironies of human existence.

There’s only one thing to do with a person like that: flee.


Faster than Usain Bolt, yes, yes, yes. That sort of negativity is absolutely toxic.

I think you're right; indie films need to actually think about appealing to their audiences. People go to the movies for entertainment, and also a form of escape. If we live in grimy little apartments surrounded by unpleasant people, we want something ELSE onscreen.

My ideal movie would be something that entertains me without insulting my intelligence. It's why I loved Little Miss Sunshine; the comedy arose from who the characters were, how their situations played off against one another. It was funny AND smart, and didn't require endless special effects, car chases or explosions. It's the kind of movie I feel we desperately need more of. It is possible to entertain without insulting the audience's intelligence.
rated
I think this is just another way to say, "Don't judge a book by its cover."
i think you are for the most part correct. it's like that with some musicians i know as well! the greatest horror would not be to die in obscurity no one having heard you tunes but to be popular and have Doritos or Ford use your music in a commercial. i just don't get the idea of "art" as masturbation. it's the same with some devotees who are basically gnostics who want to keep the "artist" they like unknown because God forbid they become popular then their work is of No Merit. i have enjoyed quite a few indie films and music efforts but find many tiresome and not worth the time spent watching or listening.
True enough and my contention is that most indie films are made by film school alums, and that's the problem. They don't teach you to write a good and engaging story in film school, they teach you how to direct. But what good is a director without a great story?

Sadly film schools pump out overly serious "craftsmen" who are so focused on the technical aspects of what they can do in a film they aren't able to first find (or write) a fantastic story! On the other hand I've seen indies with truly mediocre production but strong storylibe and not amazingly, you hardly notice the shooting or direction and are engrossed in a great story being performed by talented actors. Humans watched plays for centuries where there was very little else but great story and great acting. Film students would do well to keep that in mind. 1st get a great story. 2nd get great actors. Then get all "filmy with it". In . That. Order.

As a writer director who loves the process of creating a film or show, I know how hard it can be to spend endless hours, weeks, months (or sometimes years) perfecting a script when the scenes are running through your mind and the chills are going up your spine imagining the fun and challenges of the shoot. But perfect you must. The film is never about the creator. It's always about the audience. Too many directors and indie filmmakers forget (or don't know) this. It's about what they can do, how talented they can come across, his brilliantly they handled a scene or trying to get noticed and lauded. Ironically solidly written films when also well produced, accomplish all of that. The trick is to get out of your own way and create something that your audience feels every step of the way.
Brian... pretty good, but I'll try to be even shorter. we're gradually whittle away the misunderstandings. I said the talented independent film-makers were lazy, and that was unclear. I meant that the talented independent film makers who make these story-less droning reality lessons with abrasive tedious characters have more to answer for than the untalented ones who do the same type of work. If yiou have no talent ... well, that's too bad and at least you tried. For all we know some of the untalented guys tried really really hard. It's the talented one who shy away from the real structures work of story-telling that irk me.

Here are some requested examples of the kind of indie movies I dislike -- these are all Independent Spirit nominees in the last five years --

Primer
Thumbsucker
The Woodsman
Brokeback Mountain
Rachel Getting Married
The Wrestler
The Savages
Before the Devil Knows You're Dead
Waitress
Friends With Money

... truly the film festival from Hell.
I think it's a matter of taste as well as one's mood on any night/day. There are some indie films that want to please us. Do not ask me for names, bec. I'm catching a flight in an hour, and even were I not, names of films are hard. But I have seen many that are amazing. Then too there are the slow plotless international art films, think Michael Handke which sometimes annoy me because when the end, there is no ending. I have film fanatic friends who say they do not care about plot. Well, most of the time I do. A case in point: "The Double Life of Veronica"--or the double life of someone, made I think my Kieslevski whose Decalogue I loved but this one was so difficult to love. As for more mainstream movies, they surely have a place in our lives; I will see anything with Sandra Bullock, but a good film diet is varied. Rated for interest.
... and just to be fair, here some of the independent films I've liked --or loved -- in the same half decade ...

Kinsey
Before Sunset
Sideways
The Squid and the Whale
Thank You for Smoking
The Painted Veil
A Prarie Home Companion
The Diving Bell and the Butterfly
I'm Not There
Juno
The Visitor
A Serious Man
Paranormal Activity
500 Days of Summer.
Brian ... re: Brokeback Mountain ... it was just too much wind in the parie grass and water bead on the leaves and sheep under the big sky for me. Neither character was particularly interesting, and their relationship was dreary. I know I'm in the minority on this, and I normally love Larry McMurtry's work. The whole fishing tackle plot point seemed creaky to me.
Interesting, Steve, that you disliked Primer. Or, more accurately, that you chose it as representative of what you dislike in indie film-making.

It's okay to dislike Primer, of course; I'm not sure I liked it myself. It's just that Primer was the first film that initiated a three-day conversation between me and my wife (married a long, long time).
Finally, I said, "Okay, I'll try to answer your question about the movie and then I hope we're done talking about it..."

Primer is not really science fiction in the conventional sense, nor is it about technology gone berserk or even the old inherent time-travel contradiction, though all three play a role. It's really a morality play that employs a contemporary metaphor to warn about the terrible things that can happen when people pursue power. And is not the power to rearrange reality at will, without the cooperation of others, the ultimate power?

Certainly, it was dark. But, however flawed it may be as a film, the storytelling was more gripping than most films shot on 1,000 times the budget, I think.
Well, I like pretty much everything you hate. I liked "Fish Tank", a continuation of the British kitchen-sink realism school, a lot. Even the creepy older guy had some nuance, and the horrifying scene near the end was well put together. (I understand Katie Jarvis was 'discovered' for the part when the director observed her having a screaming argument with her boyfriend across the tracks at a RR station; you could call her a natural. Ever had teenagers? They can be exactly like that.)
I liked The Good Girl a lot too (Texas sink realism?). Exciting people don't work at Retail Rodeo, my friend, but they too have lives that take surprising turns sometimes, and it managed some very funny scenes. Brokeback Mountain, I humbly submit, was the best movie of the decade and was totally robbed of Best Picture by that fake-artsy this-is-so-deep poseur Crash.

In future, please let me know any time you see a movie you hate, so I can be sure to watch it. Thanks.
Bill's Dubiuous -- Good point! It's a fantastic luxury to have critici you can rely upon to disagree with consistently. I had that with Vincent Canby in the old days, and was saddened by his retirement. I'll be sure to keep you posted on the movies I really hate. You might be amused by something my step-mother said to me when I tried to pick an argument about "The English Patient":

"Everything you hated about the movie, I loved about it."

That's a useful conversation stopper ...
Interesting article but I don't think it's fair to put Fish Tank in the same category of an ex-girlfriend who thought her shit don't stank (we all know these people). I'm an avid film viewer and I loved Fish Tank because it felt very real and I think Andrea Arnold made the film with a handheld camera and without non-diagetic sound to stress to the social realism this film is ultimately about. I also think that you have it backwards when it comes to narrative within independent film. I found Fish Tank was a very interesting story with a suspenseful ending and a lot of sexual innuendo to make the viewer feel a bit uncomfortable about the relationship Mia has with Fassbender's character. Flashy and mainstream movies (I'm not hating here I love them too) tend to follow conventional story-telling we've all seen a thousand times (they meet, they have lunch, they talk, they like each other, they fall in love).