It seems there is a wide feeling to perceive the USA as to what it has become which releases the panic impulse to run away. Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare.

It might actually be great if all the states went their separate ways as independent countries. Then they could busy themselves warring with other states and leave the rest of the world in peace. There'd be enough different ways of life represented so that pretty much everyone - from religious fascists to socialist communes - to find a home. And another state to fight with.

And just look at all the people who could get jobs as "border guards!" Those jobs alone could almost use up all the military personnel that would be released from active duty when the invasions of other, far away sovereign nations came to an end.

Then too there'd be zillions of jobs for passport makers..... well 50 times as many as now, anyway. And whenever a particular state wasn't doing too well it could invade one of its neighbouring states. That'd be good for the economy of both states.

The banks would get all chopped up into manageable size too! No more "too big to fail!"

You folks really gotta give this some serious consideration, y'know?

;-)....... ;-)
.

It might actually be great if all the states went their separate ways as independent countries. Then they could busy themselves warring with other states and leave the rest of the world in peace. There'd be enough different ways of life represented so that pretty much everyone - from religious fascists to socialist communes - to find a home. And another state to fight with.

And just look at all the people who could get jobs as "border guards!" Those jobs alone could almost use up all the military personnel that would be released from active duty when the invasions of other, far away sovereign nations came to an end.

Then too there'd be zillions of jobs for passport makers..... well 50 times as many as now, anyway. And whenever a particular state wasn't doing too well it could invade one of its neighbouring states. That'd be good for the economy of both states.

The banks would get all chopped up into manageable size too! No more "too big to fail!"

You folks really gotta give this some serious consideration, y'know?

;-)....... ;-)

"R"
.

That article you linked to got it right. This is meaningless, or it is at least indicative of the fact that PR matters more than substance, because if any of the people in any of these states actually intended to secede (either as a protest, or because they truly thought it was the best thing for their state), they would look into the process as it is outlined in their state constitutions (because it is outlined in every state constitution).

Funny enough, despite all the blustering from Texas, the only state to get anywhere in the secession process recently is Vermont -

http://rense.com/general68/secede.htm

[r] If they are seceding because Obama is too liberal, that is a real nightmare. Now Vermont has a case. best, libby

Doc, at what mental institution did you find this guy? What medication would you prescribe to quell his demented hysteria? If anyone takes this vapid hearsay seriously I suggest they contact Donald Trump immediately for I am certain he has some under water ocean front property in Las Vegas he’d love to sell them.

Wow 12,300 nut-jobs in Louisiana and another 15,400 in Texas. Shall we all tremble? That’s if we even dare presume they are real people. Perhaps this was concocted in a few church basements near Slab City or some tailor camp about ten miles from East Gas Pump Louisiana? Makes me wonder if patients in mental institutions have access to the internet.

We should be reluctant to even dignify such dementia as worthy topic for discussion unless it’s a clinical discussion of what medications they fell-off of or what neuro-toxins they are smoking.

Presuming, purely for sake of argument the self-referencing David Martosko, Executive Editor (ooo I’m impressed) of the self-reverencing Daily Caller has any credible authority for this ‘facts’ at all (a far too generous presumption) you gotta wonder what brand of dementia and hysteria concludes such minuscule numbers of bogus cyber- persons constitute a “deluge” on the White House. LOL!

Just make sure this charlatan destroys all vestiges of his own credibility he writes “The White House website publicly displays petitions that have attracted at least 150 signers” (some ‘deluge’!) and of course this credulous charlatan relies on another fraud as this ‘authority’ by linking to a “White House website” so patently bogus it should not fool a Tobacco Road moron.

Aside from that David Martosko’s knowledge of what the Whites House is legally ‘required’ to do in response what he calls ‘petitions’ proves two things: the level of his own dementia and legal ignorance coupled with his (perhaps fair) presumption that his readers are as ignorant and demented as he is. Might be best to ask to what drug have these people all seceded their sanity and reason. Witness the internet as cyber-mental-institution.

Hi Francois, the "We the People" page appears to be a genuine link on the White House website, as does the "Terms of Participation," page which promises that Obama will "respond" to all petitions with more than 25,000 signatures. Are you saying the whole White House website is bogus? If so, what's the link to the "real" White House web page?

Libby and Malcolm, I checked the Rense link, and it's from 2005. Although the Vermont legislature passed a secession resolution when Bush was still president, they are one of the 3 states that doesn't have an active petition.

I am all for the break-up of both the US and the European Union. Both are far too vast for genuine democratic input. As Sky points out this would likely cause the banks to get chopped up into a manageable size. For anyone who has ever tried to visit California, they already have border guards to prevent visitors from importing agricultural products from competing states.

Dave Letterman has had several great clips about the secession petitions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeUNTwg2KfQ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/david-letterman-alec-baldwin-joke-secession-petitions-states-secede-united-states-of-caucasia_n_2137984.html

My apologies it appears you are partly correct. But no, this a Tea Party hoax. This is the internet. Any crackpot with an email address can create an account to create or sign such ‘petition’ at that web site just as easily any moron can smear any smut across the walls of public toilets. The only difference is that, in this case, Homeland Security can trace and find (and surely saves) that information and that may be a good thing.

See http://www.hoax-slayer.com/us-states-secession-petitions.shtml and see snopes http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/secede.asp

This has been thoroughly debunked. There is no constitutional right to secede! We already had bloody civil war over issue. The answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE.”

This not a topic fit for sane debate except for late night mockery.

Second, all real petitions (where there is such a right to petition) must be directed to elected representatives in Congress AND the House of Representatives. Even then, for obvious reasons, any valid petition must be supported by SIGNATURES of real verifiable people who are actual competent CITIZENS not wing-nut unidentifiable nobodies with commuters and multiple personalities and five gmail addresses from who know what country.

This is being pursued, ironically enough, through an outlet that was set up by the Obama administration in 2011 – the We The People website. Petitions submitted via that page are directed to the current administration's policy experts. Petitions that gain a minimum of 25,000 SIGNATURES IN A 30 DAY PERIOD will be reviewed by officials in the Administration and an official response issued. Any response will no doubt be amusing but that’s only presuming 25,000 gullible nut jobs can be enlisted on 30 days. Come to think of it that might not be such a difficult task after all.

In any event it should be evident that these petitions are rather pointless for they aren’t any form of legally binding document and aren’t even directed to any elected officials. So even if there was a right to seceded this coaled not be a legitimate process and it’s scary to think how many fell for it.

But are there really 25, 000 people in America who think they can petition their government asking for their state to seceded from the union? Really? Actually, perhaps. On 60 Minutes last night David McCullough said that when he visited some college campuses perfectly intelligent students came up to him and actually said, “I did not know until your lecture today that all of the 13 original colonies were all on the East Coast.”

McCullough chided we are creating a nation of historical illiterates. Sadly the same can be said of our legal bedrock for I meet many people who don’t have a clue what the 1st and 14th Amendments mandate even though they have very strong opinions on such issues and they seldom fail to cite their B.A. on Political Science from a community college as their ‘credential’ to speak with authority on matters of which they know little or nothing.

My concern is that people do not know how to vet rubbish like this before they fuel the very ignorance that created it. You strike me as too intelligent a person to so quickly take to tainted bait with the hook sticking out.

Finally, if what you say is true about the Vermont legislature I take it as an intended joke no one was intended to take seriously but it’s is truly unfortunate that legislators (who surely know better) would risk fomenting ignorance amongst their most gullible constituents by even suggesting a state has right to secede.

And as to California border guards I am not sure I get your drift. Should California really allow people to go to Nevada to buy grapes tainted with Med Fly larvae and come sell it at a Civic Center farmers market?

http://vermontrepublic.org/svr-mission

Malcolom: “if any of the people in any of these states actually intended to secede ...they would look into the process as it is outlined in their state constitutions (because it is outlined in every state constitution).”

Wow. That’ quite a statement. What is your authority supporting hearsay. Show it’s credibility. Show us just a few states whose constitutions outline the procedural process of seceding from the union. Don’t tell us. Show us.

I'm glad you have brought up this subject, Doc. I'm not so sure how secession would work nowadays since the federal government is such a leviathan, but I do feel that secession is the last peaceful redress of grievances. As this "movement" gets attention and gathers momentum, I'm sure the media will paint this as kooky or racist, but I think it shows that regardless of what political party is in power, a large minority (or majority, who knows) is disgusted with how little they are represented. I think those people also recognize that corporate interests have hijacked the political process in this country, something the good ol' boys and blind liberal lemmings conveniently ignore. Secession, although radical to some, seems to be the first step We The People can take towards truly reasserting our position in this system that is clearly no longer working. I currently share Jan's position: "Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare". Time will tell.

I'm glad you have brought up this subject, Doc. I'm not so sure how secession would work nowadays since the federal government is such a leviathan, but I do feel that secession is the last peaceful redress of grievances. As this "movement" gets attention and gathers momentum, I'm sure the media will paint this as kooky or racist, but I think it shows that regardless of what political party is in power, a large minority (or majority, who knows) is disgusted with how little they are represented. I think those people also recognize that corporate interests have hijacked the political process in this country, something the good ol' boys and blind liberal lemmings conveniently ignore. Secession, although radical to some, seems to be the first step We The People can take towards truly reasserting our position in this system that is clearly no longer working. I currently share Jan's position: "Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare". Time will tell.

I'm glad you have brought up this subject, Doc. I'm not so sure how secession would work nowadays since the federal government is such a leviathan, but I do feel that secession is the last peaceful redress of grievances. As this "movement" gets attention and gathers momentum, I'm sure the media will paint this as kooky or racist, but I think it shows that regardless of what political party is in power, a large minority (or majority, who knows) is disgusted with how little they are represented. I think those people also recognize that corporate interests have hijacked the political process in this country, something the good ol' boys and blind liberal lemmings conveniently ignore. Secession, although radical to some, seems to be the first step We The People can take towards truly reasserting our position in this system that is clearly no longer working. I currently share Jan's position: "Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare". Time will tell.

I'm glad you have brought up this subject, Doc. I'm not so sure how secession would work nowadays since the federal government is such a leviathan, but I do feel that secession is the last peaceful redress of grievances. As this "movement" gets attention and gathers momentum, I'm sure the media will paint this as kooky or racist, but I think it shows that regardless of what political party is in power, a large minority (or majority, who knows) is disgusted with how little they are represented. I think those people also recognize that corporate interests have hijacked the political process in this country, something the good ol' boys and blind liberal lemmings conveniently ignore. Secession, although radical to some, seems to be the first step We The People can take towards truly reasserting our position in this system that is clearly no longer working. I currently share Jan's position: "Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare". Time will tell.

I'm glad you have brought up this subject, Doc. I'm not so sure how secession would work nowadays since the federal government is such a leviathan, but I do feel that secession is the last peaceful redress of grievances. As this "movement" gets attention and gathers momentum, I'm sure the media will paint this as kooky or racist, but I think it shows that regardless of what political party is in power, a large minority (or majority, who knows) is disgusted with how little they are represented. I think those people also recognize that corporate interests have hijacked the political process in this country, something the good ol' boys and blind liberal lemmings conveniently ignore. Secession, although radical to some, seems to be the first step We The People can take towards truly reasserting our position in this system that is clearly no longer working. I currently share Jan's position: "Not quite sane, but far more sane than this current nightmare". Time will tell.

Sorry, Doc, this site sucks and I hit post 5 times out of frustration :)

At his website, ex-Congressman Ron Paul defends the right of states to secede if the federal government exceeds its constitutionally authorized authority and no other remedy can be found. He agrees with Thomas Jefferson that secession is fundamental to a government based on self-government and voluntary association. He refutes the Civil War argument by pointing out that governance in the US is based on consent of the governed (supposedly) not violence.