The Most Revolutionary Act

Diverse Ramblings of an American Refugee

Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall

Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall
New Plymouth, New Zealand
December 02
Retired psychiatrist, activist and author of 2 young adult novels - Battle for Tomorrow and A Rebel Comes of Age - and a free ebook 21st Century Revolution. My 2010 memoir The Most Revolutionary Act: Memoir of an American Refugee describes the circumstances that led me to leave the US in 2002. More information about my books (and me) at


MARCH 25, 2013 6:43PM

Is Obama Preparing for Martial Law?

Rate: 16 Flag

Scanning my sector

Is Obama preparing for martial law? All the signs say yes. Many prominent market analysts predict the US economy will collapse some time in 2013. They fully believe Americans will wake up one morning and learn the government has closed all the banks, as they have in Cyprus. When this happens, there will be long queues at cash machines - until they run out of money. With on-line transactions frozen, merchants will decline credit and debit card purchase. Customers with cash-in-hand will strip supermarket shelves of bread, milk, flour, tobacco and other staples.

This is the scenario currently being played out in Cyprus, following the extended bank holiday the government declared last Tuesday. The Cypriot banks are still closed. The moment the government opens them, all account holders with an ounce of sense will withdraw all their money. The European Central Bank has ordered the government of Cyprus to confiscate a percentage of customers’ savings accounts to help bail out Cyprus’s bank debt.

Similar laws are being considered in Italy and New Zealand. Many believe Greece, Spain, Italy (which still doesn’t have a government), and Portugal will go down the same road.

The US Debt Debacle

As Storm Clouds Gathering outlines in the following video, it’s a matter of speculation whether it will be weeks or months before the US economy unravels. The current US debt stands at $16 trillion. This is in addition to $86-123 trillion in “unfunded liabilites” (i.e. the toxic debt Treasury “bought" from the banks that were too big to fail). Added to this, is $1.2 quadrillion in private debt the banking system has incurred through derivatives trading (imagine bailing that out).

There is no possible way this level of debt can ever be repaid. This kind of debt bubble is like a pyramid scheme. When you run out of new suckers to pull in, the whole thing collapses. As in 2008, Obama is going to ask US taxpayers (and maybe people with savings accounts this time) to tighten their belts to save all the banks that are “too big to fail.” Something tells me Americans aren’t going to fall for it again, any more than their Cypriot, Greek, Italian and Spanish cousins have. It would seem Obama doesn’t think so, either. It sure looks like his administration is preparing for major civil unrest.

The video carefully compiles all the evidence suggesting Obama is preparing to enact martial law: the recent purchase by Homeland Security of $1.6 billion of ammunition and thousands of military grade armored vehicles, the leaked memo about the establishment of military internment camps and, most importantly, the indefinite detention provisions of the NDAA.

The film proposes some intriguing options for addressing the imminent political crisis. Voting the bums out isn’t one of them. It's far too late for that. However the filmmakers also make some cogent arguments why violent revolution isn’t a viable solution.



photo credit: The U.S. Army via photopin cc

Crossposted at Daily Censored and

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The answer to your headline is, "Not any more than any other POTUS has done since Reagan." I believe that Storm Cloud Rising (the source of the video) is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I'm certainly as aware of government plans for martial law as anyone. The alarmist nature of the world Ponzi scheme of derivatives is a real threat. When will it end? Right now, it doesn't look like the conditions are ripe for this. The stock market has a long way to go before it's in pure bubble territory. We'll see what happens in August or October, but right now prospects for collapse are extremely remote.

The fear mongering about government debt also plays directly into Tea Party economics, which we know is all flat earth and aluminum foil hat. It makes no difference how big our debt is as long as world financial markets are willing to accept our Treasuries, and our interest rates are still at historical lows.

And as for political involvement, you know my positions on that.

Don't fall for this crap.
Usually it is the right who promotes to these alarmist calls the apocalypse is coming, but I personally find it more appalling when it comes from the left, which is my own ideological proclivity.

There is nothing you show here that demonstrates in any way the purchase of such weapons proves that "Obama is preparing for martial law." You do not even bother to specify your sources in making such an outrageous inference. Before you promote such opinion, you need to be very specific, and you seem immune to taking responsibility for what you say.

I think you got a problem. Whatever made you into a fear monger has nothing to do with politics, or you would use at least a modicum of professionalism. Anybody who falls for it is as paranoid as you. I think you need help. Get a life and you won't be seeing conspiracies around every corner.
old new and Ben, watch out. You two must be on the Round Up list once Obama becomes the generalissimo. I'd take to your shelters now.
ONL, I think you might be guilty of an argumentum ad hominem fallacy. Even if Storm Clouds Gathering were a so-called hate group (I can see no evidence whatsoever on their website that they are), that wouldn't necessarily negate the logical narrative they lay out in their video. The facts they lay out are readily verifiable elsewhere from a number of other sources.

I suggest you check out their website:

There are a number of other excellent videos there. Including one on the hatchet job the US corporate media has done on the late Hugo Chavez.

As for the probability of the US dollar collapsing in 2013, it seems a number of prominent market analysts disagree with you - including George Soros, Max Keiser, Gerald Celente, Paul Craig Roberts, John Williams, Marc Faber and about a dozen others. Celente is best known for predicting (to the month) the 2008 crash. These analysts point to the large number of prominent Wall Street players pulling their money out of stocks and investing it in gold, real estate and survival-style properties in the western US.

The other bad news is that the rest of the world is losing confidence in our Treasury bonds. At present the Federal Reserve itself owns most of them. China and India have been dumping them. At present our 2nd biggest customer (after the Federal Reserve) is Japan, which uses the phoney baloney money they print to buy them. Tyler Durden at Zero Hedge describes it as the "biggest paper Ponzi scheme":

Accusing me of playing into "Tea Party economics" is another argumentum ad hominem fallacy. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean they are wrong about everything.

The debt itself wouldn't be a problem if the money being printed were used to help small businesses and unemployed Americans. The way Obama is using quantitative easing is by giving all the money that's printed straight to the banks, where it's used for CEO salaries or stashed in the Cayman Islands.

Meanwhile the value of the US dollar is being systematically eroded. Which is good for exporters but terrible for Americans on minimum wage and fixed incomes, who face continual price increases on gas and other basic necessities while their incomes remain static.

Where I part company with the Tea Party is in the proposed solution to the debt problem. In the short term Obama needs to stop printing money to hand over to the banks - the risk of inflation would be significantly lessons if these funds were used to produce real wealth in the economy. In the long run, the US needs to sign on to the IMF proposal (The Chicago Plan) to end the ability of banks to create money and control our money supply.
Ben, I think the Storm Clouds Gathering video is really clear about the sources for their claims. I assume you didn't watch it, right?
Damn...hasn't the sky finished falling in New Zealand yet?

What on Earth do the progressive extremists get out of this kind of thing?

What fires are put out with this?
Dr. Bramhall, you know that I'm very sympathetic with your political views. However, I have a few caveats. First, I've successfully predicted 10 of the 1.5 depressions that we've experienced since 1980. Prognosticating about the future economically is very tricky, and frankly -- I consider myself an economic paranoid given my track record. And so, when I am as paranoid as I am about the economy and I fail to see world finance as being in mortal peril at this moment, I saw nothing compelling from the video to indicate that we are on the brink of collapse by next week. Short and long term interest rates, the standing of the dollar vs. other world currencies, and PE ratios in the stock market along with other fundamental and technical indicators says that the American bull market has a ways to run. And this is why we can revise our optimistic attitudes about the world economy six months in the future if need be. And the exponential growth of derivatives (albeit unsettling) is like our trade deficit with China, i.e. business as usual until proven otherwise.

Second, scaremongering like what this video tries to do are disempowering. The intergalactic marijuana conspiracy or whatever you call it means that I, as an individual have no power against the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing global conspirators. So I might as well get my gold bars, canned food, guns, and bomb shelters and just hunker down in the bunker. No go.

Third, the recommendations of Storm Front Rising are ridiculous. It says any political action doesn't matter. Then why are you and I so political? Yes, getting your AK-47s and waiting for the Man with his tanks, RPGs, drones, and fighter jets is a non-starter. But tax evasion or war tax resistance? That is the surest way to personal bankruptcy that I know of. You want enemies? Try having the IRS as an enemy some time. No go. Then, holding Congress hostage: I will refer you to my remarks on AK-47s. As to the third solution that Storm Front Rising advocates. You're in New Zealand and I'm in Mexico, right?

But most importantly, I have every neuron and sinew in my body to make as much political trouble as I possibly can. And I will do it nonviolently. So screw them if they want to put me in some camp! And that is my attitude, which I think is pretty close to yours.
ONL, I think the video, like the others on the Storm Clouds Gathering website, is intended to jolt people out of their complacency. The NDAA and Obama's executive order authorizing him to assassinate Americans without congressional or judicial review are pretty damned scarey, to my way of thinking. As are the militarization of urban police, airports, "immigration" checkpoints in Arizona and increasing use of National Guard and military personnel in routine policing.

Pointing out to people that they live in a police state may be scaremongering and disempowering to your way of thinking. I don't agree. My view is that increasing peoples' awareness is the first step to mobilizing them politically.

The filmmakers make the specific statement at the end that the only solution is organized political resistance - that voting, petitions and protests aren't going to solve the problem. I happen to agree with that statement.

I think it's really hard to prescribe specific types of direct action on a 9 minute video. I agree that this section was pretty clumsy. I think the point they were trying to make still comes across - that some form of organized resistance short of armed revolution is called for.
I forgot to mention, I don't understand where your reference to "all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing global conspirators", hunkering down in bunkers, gold bars, canned food, guns and bomb shelters comes from? It makes me wonder if you have a specific reason for wanting to discredit this film. In your first comment, you claimed the filmmakers were a hate group.
A. The unfunded liabilities are from Medicare and Social Security and they are closer to $60 trillion, but they're not necessarily supposed to be funded. The system is set up such that the current working generation pays for the current retired generation.

Universal healthcare would shore up Medicare, and a ban on borrowing from the Social Security fund would fix that bit.

B. The $1.2 quadrillion is representative of the worldwide derivatives market, not just the US Banking portion thereof.

Don't get me wrong. Derivatives are bullshit and should be outlawed, but you are over exaggerating the issues, as well as attributing numbers and causes to the US which don't exist.

You should really double check this stuff before you print it as fact.
Frank Apisa is, as usual, the epitome of opinion that refuses to accept the obvious failure of the entire political and economic system worldwide to provide for the basic necessities, not to speak of the great possibilities of current technology, to see to the welfare of the world population in general and the USA specifically. Your other commentators also refuse to look at developing realities. I too hope you are wrong but current events point otherwise.
Most alarmist stuff is ridiculous and easily ignored, but this is so completely over the top that it is shocking.

First of all, like Ben Sen said, it is appalling when this sort of nonsense comes from the left. This is lunatic fringe stuff. Most of it makes no sense at all.

Comparing the U.S. financial situation to the Eurozone is off base. The vast majority of the debt that you refer to is debt to ourselves. The "unfunded liabilities" to not place us into fiscal peril that you claim. "Signs say yes" about martial law?

"Le freak, c'est chic!"
I assume you still have your American passport, or did you renounce your citizenship and seek political asylum in New Zealand?

Your chances a seeing martial law imposed in NZ are far greater than in the US. Time to adjust your tin foil.

Have a nice day.......................o/e
When government secrecy and national security is daily evoked to openly destroy several of the basic guarantees in the US Constitution it really is somehow amazing that so many assumed cogent people can deny something obviously radical and terrible is creeping over the country.
World devoid of nuance,
populous shell shocked societies,
collective communicational empathy...

linguistically PTSD'd...

and most sadly, our next generations virgin opportunity
to effect the indispensable paradigmatic shift(s),
that perhaps only they can make,
hindered by elders ~
to gracefully let go.
Jan Sand wrote: I too hope you are wrong...

Actually, I am beginning to suspect people like Jan Sand and Libby and SJB are not hoping they are wrong at all.

I suspect they are hoping for a great their constant dire predictions will be vindicated.

And for SJB to refer to America as a "police state" is so far over the top that it defies logic. No people who have ever existed have been as free to speak their minds as Americans today.

I guess the answer to my question is that the sky still hasn't completely fallen in New Zealand yet.
Unless you're literally insane there's no doubt the destroyers - including Obama - are in charge of this world (defended by other destroyers). The problem comes in trying to define the exact nature of it. It's as Jesus said, left to our own devices the world would become utterly destroyed.
And Frank, I have suspected for a long time that you are so comfortable with the corruption, lies, stupidity, insensitivity, brutality and destruction evident in the current and recent administrations that either you are under the constant influence of a very strong tranquilizer, have something radically out of whack with your nervous system, or are an agent of some federal agency with an agenda to pacify a public growing more and more disturbed over being scammed and screwed.
And Frank, I have suspected for a long time that you are so comfortable with the corruption, lies, stupidity, insensitivity, brutality and destruction evident in the current and recent administrations that either you are under the constant influence of a very strong tranquilizer, have something radically out of whack with your nervous system, or are an agent of some federal agency with an agenda to pacify a public growing more and more disturbed over being scammed and screwed.

So you are saying that I am not living in constant misery in a world perceived of as being you are living!

When you are right, Jan, you are right...

...and this time you are right.
Jan Sand, you know what "so many cogent people" can see? People can tell when you have such a twisted, tortured preface to a statement that almost anything afterward could be true.

"When government secrecy and national security is daily evoked to openly destroy several of the basic guarantees in the US Constitution ..."

If the above were accurate, maybe there would be something to be concerned about. The fact is that it is a massive exaggeration. It is hyperbole. What "cogent people" can see is that you believe your own hyperbole and get swept away on it.
Yes Dr. Obama is getting ready for Marshall law. He will not survive without it and neither will many of his shills on here who have inundated this post. Paul Craig Roberts the guy who ran the economy before it was given over to the Bush's own Wild Bill Clinton, and their NAFTA, and their rescinding the Glass Steagall Act, and their derivatives, has recently come right out and said the crash is imminent. Here's an interview he just did with the fat shill Alex Jones (turn the volume down when he talks. Dr Roberts just laughs at him).
And one last thing some shill for the Jesuits, some for George Soro's but they all should remember the "lunatic" fringe is out there locked and loaded (what happened to that assault rifle ban?).
I've gone to what you call "sources" before and they've been whackos talking to other whackos. Do you even bother to read reliable news sources? I strongly doubt it because you're so completely wrapped in the fringe.

It's true, Obama authorized the use of drones to kill an American citizen. He envoked executive priviledge as have all the other commanders-in-chief in this country with the responsibility of protecting the nation. The legal opinions he sought agreed with him, but his opposition, who will try anything, scored their publicity, but did not bring suit in some fashion or other. If they could have, they would have.

To infer from that he is "preparing for marshal law" is not defensible unless your purpose is to make trouble yourself, or are simply so paranoid that you want everybody else to live in your ideological bubble with you. It's not enough for you to make your "economic" points, you have to throw in the subterfuge and then reject all countervailing evidence and opinion.

I've seen enough of your work to suspect what you fear most is yourself and that is what you project. Such a closed and nonresponsive mind is not searching for the truth, but searching for victims. I think the person you need to heal is yourself.
The Sqaud Auotomatic Weapon, I really love that weapon, have since the early eighties. Unfortanatly I can't have one right now but I am sure I will get one when the shooting starts.
Dr Bramhall, I have always respected your voice here on OS, but this is one time I feel you have gone off the deep end! I like Old Lefty, have to question your source of information.

While I believe there is some credibility in what you say, I like the others have to disagree.
There is no possible way this level of debt can ever be repaid

Dr. Bramhall.. repaid to WHO? Bankers? What bankers and where? And who cares about them anyway? Fuck the bankers. Me and mine will survive.
It would be kind of cool though, the US Army and Marines, who had a bitch of a time with Fallujah, versus say (for ex.) the city of Los Angeles. Herding them people up to put on the train to the interment camps. Where are those things at anyway.. the internment camps... and how many populations of Los Angeles are they geared for? I'm sure the population out there would be more difficult than cats to get on them trains to wherever though.. to the place where we stay until we "pay our debt" to the almighty fucking bankers.
I am so sure..
Here is a prime example of how nuts do not think before they write. The following comes courtesy of Jack Heart:

"Yes Dr. Obama is getting ready for Marshall law. He will not survive without it and neither will many of his shills on here who have inundated this post..."

Ok, he says the President is getting ready formartial law, right? Then he also includes:

"And one last thing some shill for the Jesuits, some for George Soro's but they all should remember the "lunatic" fringe is out there locked and loaded (what happened to that assault rifle ban?)."

Does he realize that he contradicts himself here? Doubtful. He has though. Then the last piece of nonsense:

"The Sqaud Auotomatic Weapon, I really love that weapon, have since the early eighties. Unfortanatly I can't have one right now but I am sure I will get one when the shooting starts."

Earth to Jack, if there is martial law, there wont be any guns to be had. You said yourself, "what happened to the assault weapons ban?" If martial law were on the way, there would not be an assault weapons ban pushed through congress. Instead, all guns would be confiscated, and it would not come through the legislature. It would be an executive order of some sort. All guns.

Jack's frothing nonsense not only gave birth to the question that refuted his own frothing, but it also refutes the premise of this post. What happened to the asault weapons ban? Here is what happened, it failed in a free society the way those things do. That is one sure way that you can tell that martial law is not coming.
No he is not, and we are getting ready to leave the woods, so long as people Far Left and Far Right leave well-enough alone.
Trust in me and all will be well! Jesus got nothin' on this boy! Critical thought is for traitors, i.e. those needing re-education.

And besides, nothing unthinkable ever happens. We're exactly where we thought we'd be at the turn of the century: in endless wars with an out-of-control MIC, a permanently damaged economy without any real foundation for recovery, a passion for dissolving over 200 years of civil rights progress and a right wing Democratic party. Now who didn't predict that in 2000??
Bill I fail to see any of your line of reasoning, but then again neither does anyone else on OS who is not a pandering liberal or a Black bigot like yourself. For now on please do not address me by name. You make your comments and I'll make mine. As you say and insinuate I am a frothing at the mouth lunatic so you should feel no need to even read what I say. This is my feelings about you. Why are they not mutual? And like I have told you before don’t feel any need to answer me I won’t be reading this post any further.
No, Jack, you're no lunatic. That would require a promotion or two.

Think really hard, Jsck. If any head of goverment were planning to institute martial law, you'd get the guns first. You certainly would if you were planning it in the U.S. which has so many. And like YOU said, the assault weapons ban, a piece of legislation, appears to be failing. And that only covered assault weapons. For martial law you'd go for more than just assault weapons. It is pretty simple, really. You are espousing two contradictory notions at once. You dont express them as alternate possibilities, but rather certainties. You cooked your own goose, Jack. It is kind of hilarious.
Fake President Obama has another good point. We are all of the places that he says we are. Why would anyone institutie martial law when those shadowy forces already have what they want? The only thing martial law would do is make the stock market crash and further hinder the economy.

It's funny how the fringe doom sayers are now bumping into their own nonsensical rhetoric.
I'm in Canada and I'm sure we'll welcome the Martial Law refugees, just as we did the Vietnam draft dodgers. But please leave your guns behind. Or better still, give them to the militias and underground resistance movements who will be fighting the dictatorship.
A combination of dust-up and clusterfuck!!! I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
ONL, to be honest with you, I am really uncomfortable with all the name calling and verbal abuse that's occurring in this discussion. I naively assumed this was a a well constructed piece of alternative media that was worthy of rational debate.

It also really bothers me that people who identify as leftists buy into the effort by the corporate and so-called alternative media to limit what is an "acceptable" range of debate on the left. I recognize some of the commenters (from their comments on other blogs) as frank Obama apologists who tend to be quite extreme in their reaction to progressives who criticize the President for his corporate neoliberalism. But others?

At their website Storm Clouds Gathering, they acknowledge that they are extremists. And if you look at some of their other videos, they are clearly to the left, not the right, of Obama. Surely so long as groups don't advocate violence, it should be acceptable to repost their material on OS. At least it used to be.

I would like to acknowledge two factual errors pointed out by Malcolm X. The "unfunded liabilities" the video refers to are, indeed, anticipated Medicare and Social Security expenditures. The amount the Treasury and Fed spend every month purchasing toxic securities is secret. We have no idea how much it is.

Also the $1.2 quadrillion refers to global derivatives, of which the lion's share originate from US banks. My bad.
How can a completely irrational premise ge worthy of rational debate? The notion that the U.S. or the administration is considering martial law is not remotely rational. Why is every extreme paranoid alarmist notion debatable when the proof against it is obvious? Must one prove that sheep are not arming themselves and planning a takeover of New Zealand, or is it fairly obvious that it is false?
Sorry, Bill, exactly what proof were you referring to?
It is completely implausible. You could argue that the administration is doing this surreptiously, and plans to spring it on the public all at once. Also, you could argue that there is some purpose for doing so, which your pseudo accusation does not include. Presumably the lack of any apparent reason is part of the process of stealth. All of that is within the realm of possibility, but it makes it considerably less likely.

One of your comments mentioned dissent still being rather open. It is. Again, gun manufacturers still operate unfettered. The borders are not closed or militarized. The economy is using a provate sector balance to the detriment of the economy, and the administration's political prospects, not to mention the party's.

The evidence against such a notion abound. It exists in every conceivable area. There is no universal conscription. Things as they stand right now look nothing like a nation poised to become a police state. Not even close.
Bill's right! It's not like I suspended Habeas Corpus allowing indefinite detention without charges! It's completely unthinkable any sort revocation of basic civil rights could ever happen in these great United States. The people would not stand for it. So there!

(Shit! Oh, wait, guess I did. Haha! I got reelected didn't I? I must be right!)
And even that idiot trig fellow is right. It's only the bank's quadrillion debt that is currently outstanding. It only becomes a debt to the populace AFTER the banks fails (And that will never happen too. Trust in me!) Until then we're good!
Fake Obama, if you think suspension of habeas corpus is equivalent to the creation of martial law, I would suggest that you brush up on both concepts. They are not equivalent. Again, it is a massive exaggeration.
"rational debate"? "Marshall law"? " George Soro's"? crazy as f**k lunatic fringe website videos?

this just gets better and better. i'm getting some popcorn.
I totally dig your mindset and understand the place you come from Dr. Bramhall. I often enjoy your posts. There is no government, or politician, of any stripe, that should be given carte blanche trust. I always thought it was a legitimate question to ask; why do people that can make millions being lawyers or selling books take the shittiest job in the world for $250k?
Must be a reason . . . so yes, my instinct tells me to not trust Obama, or any of those people ("those people" does NOT refer to black or even half white people.. HA).
That said (and I haven't watched the vid) money is just a theory, isn't it? A concept. An instrument. A way to trade goods and services. Once again, I ask, we owe WHO?
Some guy in Palau laying in a hammock on the beach drinking top shelf rum out of a coconut shell?
And whenever I hear martial law and internment camps I wonder about the physicalness of all that. Put us where? And why?
Then, who is going to do it?
My friend that told me Ratzinberger was the anti-pope and that 2003 was our last summer of freedom said we were hiring mercenaries to intern us. Does that sound a little wack?
Here we are all broke, hiring mercenaries! To... whatever.
Take away the mercenary scenario and we are left with our own children to do the job, like my kid in the Navy.
Eli might take orders and follow the chain of command to a point, but not to the point of shooting his daddy in the knee and tossing me on the internment train.
Me? Looking forward to a great season building decks, going fishing,
and drinking bottom shelf rum.
Your self-deception has cracks. You make credible the work of a hate group, yet are concerned about bad language and a lack of control. That's why I say your politics are not politics at all, but projections. You have very little awareness of the ramifications or possible ramifications of what you are saying.
Fake Bill, I certainly agree suspending habeas corpus is not the same as martial law. Glad you worked that out! (FYI, an apple is not the same as an orange, either).

However, to those being detained indefinitely without charges by the caprice of the state, it's mighty difficult to tell the difference from your cell! But that's not you, silly one, so no need to worry your pretty little head over it.
Fake Obama, I am the real Bill Beck. I am not pretending to be someone that I am not. I am not a celebrity. There is no reason to pretend to be me.

You, on the other hand, are pretending to be President Obama. Your reciprication is sillier than your use of the President's name. You just lost whatever genuine parody value it had. You appear quite confused. I am the genuine article. You are the one playing dress up.
@ Bill Beck,

I don't get into dust-up scenarios or such but I must admit Fake Prez has a partially valid point...about your head being pretty. That was kind of nice in a weird way.
I'm ducking back into the shelter now.
Yo...f f , pass the popcorn please.
As for what a enemy combatant, or an accused enemy combatant thinks about whether or not the U.S. is a police state has no bearing on the truth one way or the other. Being held, accused, charged, or not charged does not make the definition of martial law. You are meandering further away from the definition and credibility.

Fake Obama, you seem to operate on the theory that anything is what you say it is, because you say it is. Reality just does not work that way. Some dude in a cell does not make martial law.

You know, you do your cause a disservice. You make it seem like your concern is only held by those who do not understand what they are talking about. You(s) also tend to make absurd premises. You used the word "caprice." I dont think any reasonable person would consider the condition of enemy cobatant to be capricious. The concept has existed for centuries, and is for a very specific, and serious purpose. You may disagree with how it is applied, but that does not mean it is capricious.
I dont see why anyone calls this a "dust-up." I think that is an inappropriate cliche. Granted, the subject is not about one's favorite flavor of cheesecake, or when a tea is actually green or red or brown. It is a bit more weighty than that, but just because we are not appropriating Eastern meditation and salutations does not mean it is a fight. It is a discussion between a few nihilists...and me. It is kind of interesting to watch them try to make a bunny rabbit lay an egg with magical, crowd approved cynicism. They're faking that too. There win't no martial law in the works, and they know damn well. Not one of them has even postulated a reason why the government would so so now. It is just imaginary posing with imaginary cynicism.
Let me give you one reason why the U.S. will not attempt to create a police state, or impose martial law.


Oil is traded globally in dollars. Oil is traded in dollars because it is, by far, the most stable currency on the planet. The main aspect to its stability is the political stability. The U.S. does not have a history of imposing martial law, as is suggested. The minor aspects of suspension of habeas corpus is nowhere near the crisis to make a global economy get worried about stability here in the U.S. In fact, it probably favors it. But martial law is another story.

In the short term, there would be major shock to the market. Maybe it would stabilize quickly, and maybe it would not. Much depends on what else would happen. But what the other main economies of the world would consider is switching the trade of oil to another currency. They had previously considered the Euro at one time. That is not a possibility now. It can't be known if the Euro will be around in a few years. It has major structural problems, and is in crisis. Next would probably be the Yuan. No one wants that. China's economy is already growing like a monster. Last year it slowed to 7.8 percent, and that was the slowest growth since 1999.

Changing the currency of oil out of the dollar to some other currency would be massively inflationary for the U.S., and possibly place it at a disadvantage to the Chinese economy for a century, if not permanently.

There are ENORMOUS reasons why the U.S. would not want to institute martial law, and as I see it, no need to. And like I said, no one seems to have offered a reason why the U.S. would do so. I can sit here and think of a dozen reasons why they would not. Oil being one big one.
I'd have to agree Bill to a certain extent, i.e., I don't see this as a dust up either nor did I actually term it as such.
Where I might part with you slightly is in terming the subject of the post to be a weighty topic. I would not be quite so inclined to call the notion of us all being in imminent danger of being taken away, locked up and hidden from view by the invocation of marshall law, the marshall's law, martial law or truly any permutation of the phrase as being weighty as I would be willing to call that notion just plain bull goose looney.
Yeah, and Marshall Law is a school in Cleveland. Martial law is the imposition of military rule. It would be even funnier if it were called Marshall law. I know at least one did.

And A.K.A., I know you didn't brand it a dust-up. And true, it is not a weighty discussion if someone says that the moon is made of green cheese because Obama.......(something), granted. But it is slightly more interesting than "I Fart While I Sleep so my Husband Hates Me".......or whatever they choose for Editor's Picks these days.
True all the way around Bill..........
I too think the term 'dustup' is tossed around lightly these days. Hasn't been a true dustup since August of last year, the one where I was riding a thousand miles and had to comment from a phone one letter at a time. Mean girls. Sock puppets. Misogyny. Accusations true and false. A blogger banned. Me too! For a minute, then Jake realized his folly.
Heady days those, but I like these kind of discussions here. We should practice being on our toes..
I don't think I want to be the troops who have to go into lets say, Texas, to round up the citizens when this martial law takes effect. EEK!! It'll make the Civil War look like a day at the candy store!!

Lots of citizens are 'under the radar' when it comes to acquiring guns and other such items of 'defense', I know enough about the underground, I could still get me some fine weapons so when Johnny tries to march into Indiana to drag me away to the detention camp, well....I'LL TAKE A FEW WITH ME!! GRRRR!! Hiss!

Just kidding...I'll go quietly.....
Tink, just like in Casablanca. "There are certain sections of New York that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade."
The Wall Street revolt was blown away with a few whiffs of pepper spray. Americans talk a lot about defending freedom but when it coms down to real defense of basic rights there is not much action.
The only elements of pure and effective revolt against the massively oppressive forces that are now hardening up to destroy the social advances that occurred after WWII are exemplified by the few people like Bradley Manning and Julian Assange who have revealed the open thuggery now taking over completely the powers of a nation. And the revelations they have handed the public has not resulted in the reversing of any of the secretive and open undermining of human decencies and basic tenets of civilization but rather in illegal imprisonment and torture and dire threats that these vicious operations can be maintained.And the public reaction to these heroes is nil. At this stage, at least, open revolt is a fantasy what ever popguns the public is permitted, and when the full impact is solidified it will be too late. It is, perhaps, too late already.
You never did respond to my question Dr Jean, in fact you did what all the other Obama/US conspiracy loonies have done, write something to piss people off and let them fight amongst themselves for ratings and comments, you all are the dust-up instigators (the rest of you know who you are) to keep that post on the front cover. You arguing comments folk, your being used. That's all I got, good day.......o/e
"The only elements of pure and effective revolt against the massively oppressive forces that are now hardening up to destroy the social advances that occurred after WWII are exemplified by the few people like Bradley Manning and Julian Assange who have revealed the open thuggery now taking over completely the powers of a nation."

(Only, pure, effective revolt, massively oppressive, hardening, destroy, thuggery)

Above are several modifers in Jan Sand's comment about...something. Whatever the hell it means, he seems quite serious about it. There is lots of intensity in the modifiers and the two verbs, but what the hell does it mean about this issue? Remember, the issue is the prospect of President Obama imposing martial law.

Jan Sand goes on to say this:

"And the revelations they have handed the public has not resulted in the reversing of any of the secretive and open undermining of human decencies and basic tenets of civilization but rather in illegal imprisonment and torture and dire threats that these vicious operations can be maintained.And the public reaction to these heroes is nil."

I love the last line. "And the public reaction to these heroes is nil."

Ok, it's nil. That much I understand. Bt if it is "nil," how is it also "pure and effective"...? I mean, if the public reaction is nil, doesn't that mean that it is not at all effective? It says that it is, "revolt against the massively oppressive forces."

If it is "revolt," and if its reaction is "nil", doesn't this heavily worded warning mean absolutely nothing?

Consider that there are no examples of anything given here. Also conside that there are no reasons given in the post about why the administration would institute martial law. The term martial law just got dropped for its inflammatory effect. Is there ever going to be any substance to these wild accusations? Will there ever be a credible complain gleaned from this hyperbole? Perhaps Jan Sand will allow us to use his dark conclusion to answer that question.

"It is, perhaps, too late already." you.
Surprise! Martial law has already been imposed and nobody noticed. The citizenry are cowed enough not to protest the worst excuse for a health care system in the 'developed' world, banks and the .01% milking them like so many cows (or aphids), legalized out-in-the-open bribery system of government, misery and suffering among a large proportion of the Richest & Bestest Nation That Ever Wuz, world's hugest prison population ALREADY......and best of all, the citizenry are their own camp guards, what with all the ridiculous fire-power.
I don't think your speculation is completely over the top as some seem to; however my best guess is that it will be avoided. The reason for this is that there is an enormous amount of information including things that aren't listed here but that many informed people should be aware of from somewhat reliable sources. However there might be an enormous amount of information indicating that another possibility is available.

As many people here know the commercial media has turned into a propaganda machine that is promoting corporate ideology and minimizing or ignoring things that don't go along with their agenda. There are a lot of people that still have their heads in the sands and haven't sorted through this; which could imply that Myriad could be close to the truth. We might have a version of thought control in place that is creating a propaganda version of martial law with minimal reliance on force except when the protests get too big and some of their excesses have backfired on them like the UC Davis pepper spray incident..

However if you look in the library or on many of the alternative news outlets available through Rare TV stations like Link TV and many more on the internet it is clear that many other people are accessing the information they need to provide an alternative.

these are the people that might provide an alternative. Many of these people are apparently stages protests of one kind or another just about every week although most of these aren't being reported much if at all in the traditional commercial media. They often report them locally without acknowledging the fact that they're only reporting a small fraction of the protests currently going on.

People that pay attention to the alternative media must know this is happening but if they're like me they can't keep track of all the protests either. I haven't found a single unified spot to report these protests but I have noticed that the more I look the more I find and I have no doubt that further research could easily turn up more than I have found.

I've been thinking about writing a post titled "Book burning or real grass roots reform" for this reason and my best guess is that we'll get a significant amount of grass roots reform when there is no choice. Many of the elites will still do what they can to get away with anything they think they can so it won't be easy and there is no guarantee it will be complete but I suspect there will be something.

Given time I'm sure I could find more to back this up; however I could also find more to back up other possibilities.
You know who could have declared martial law? Nixon.

In the period between 1969 and 1974, we were still at war in Vietnam. Nixon actually saw to that by scuttling the peace talks in 1968, and extended the war another 5 years. He extended war, bugged the opposing party, and did numerous other unethical abuses of power that nearly got him impeached. Nixon is synonymous for presidential over reach.

When it was clear that NIxon would be impeached, and he was in personal crisis, he tried to figure out how he could wiggle out of his troubles and stay in office. Reportedly, he had a discussion with Kissinger who told him that even if he were impeached in the Senate, and legally removed from office, that he could still command the Marines to protect him, and remain bunkered in the White House. According to Kissinger, this conversation actually took place.

You know what Nixon never did? Nixon never declared martial law.
zach … taylor writes “As many people here know the commercial media has turned into a propaganda machine that is promoting corporate ideology and minimizing or ignoring things that don't go along with their agenda.”

So now I ask you, what Libby-Libby-Libby-on-the-Label-Label-Label never answered in another blog/comment-thread.

What actual picture readers should have in their minds when you throw-around the phrase "commercial media".

Should it only be the CEO's face or corporate emblem we think about?

What about all of the researchers, writers, support personnel, producers, and reporters who work at "commercial media"? Don't you think they are compassionate, intelligent people, many of whom are minorities, women, LGBT-oriented, etc. that would find ways to use their position in media to spin the news in ways that allow them to sleep at night?

Or are you suggesting that everyone in commercial media must prostitute themselves and their ideals to "toe-the-corporate-line"?

Just wonderin'.
Joisey, the commercial media is relatively easy to recognize if you want to. I mean the media that are financed by commercials and have a conflict of interest since the corporations that dominate these ads are the same ones with a major political agenda and they also have interlocking board members and other common financial interests between the six major media conglomerates and the corporations that buy all the ads.

Since you mention it I am suggesting that they "toe-the-corporate-line" or for one reason or another they lose their jobs although it is often not the reason they claim they’re letting someone go.
O.K. Zach ... at least you responded, thanks.

Personally, I don't believe that hundreds-of-thousands of workers in commercial media feel they are "forced" (under the threat of employment termination) to work for a company who advertises messages/products contrary to their own views/values.

It's difficult to accept.

Another question (if you would humor me) -- what conspiracy theory do YOU discount as bunk -- could be anything -- UFOs, 2nd/multi-shooters of JFK, etc? And what's your criteria for doing dismissing something as unreasonable?
[r] stuart, having witnessed close up bloomberg's over the top abuse of policing militarized storm troopers against the kids at OWS there is no question that martial law and our police state already exists. What the hell is all that ammunition by DHS gonna be used for, for heaven's sake.

And for the stop and frisk and shoot to kill policies of the police in NYC, a "liberal" bastion, things are really dire.

There is a new crew of guards at Gitmo (army has replaced navy is it?) prompting the latest mass hunger strike there. That is a foreshadowing, too, for all of us. The majority of those prisoners have been legally absolved and they are still held in captivity and the guards have now upped their abusiveness to them.

Liberal fascism!!! We are there.

Once again the messenger-killers are in full voice. Some surprise me who have gone that route above. How much easier to insist bad things can't happen, than to maturely and responsibly become involved with the solution.

I just attended a Jill Stein workshop in NYC. The financial direness was addressed but the environmental direness eclipsed even that. I appreciate the clip and will watch.

best, libby
"[r] stuart, having witnessed close up bloomberg's over the top abuse of policing militarized storm troopers against the kids at OWS there is no question that martial law and our police state already exists..."

--Libby's "best"

All this means is that you have no idea what martial law is.
with my apologies.. I just had to write out my thoughts in longer than comment form......
Joisey, the Warren Report is clearly incompetent so the Oswald hypothesis doesn’t hold up which almost certainly means multi-shooters as the House report found in the late seventies. I went into it more in

Most conspiracy theories are flawed but discarding them in their entirety almost always leads to the opposite extreme. As far as I’m concerned rational skepticism involves sorting through the details and acknowledging when there is insufficient information to come to conclusions. UFOs are an unsolved mystery but most of the high profile explanations have colossal blunders if you look for them. Factual flaws would be my criteria and they often don’t address entire theories but sometimes they do.
Excellent response, Zachery. The pretense that there are neutral or objective news sources is a dangerous fallacy. If people want to get the full picture of what's really going on they need to read and watch blogs and videos produced by people they don't like very much - be they left wing/right wing/Chinese/Russian/Iranian. The idea is to learn to exercise critical judgement to differentiate the factual information from the pure propaganda.
@Dr. Bramhall (aka "doc")

I'm not sure how you can call any bank, "an American" bank. They're all multinational corporations beholden to no one now, though I suppose there are a certain group who will come to rape Americans when their gambling ends as all gambling does - losing everything (because the gambler is always sure that if they keep at it, they'll "get even" or "get ahead").*

As for the name calling, that is directly attributable to Bill Beck. He's a douchebag.

*this is why I played poker. Poker has elements of chance within it, but in the long run, skill, math and money management wins out over short term "bad luck". I mention this because there is an element of speculation in any investment, and that's not necessarily bad. It's when there are hedges and swaps and whatever other schemes are built to make everything "a sure thing" that it becomes a racketeering operation. It's so easy to detect and correct, too. That's what pisses me off the most about it all.
I'm with guys are hilarious.
What's so funny about peace, love and civil rights, Johnny boy? You conservatives just will never understand...
There is, at the moment, no martial law in the US simply because the sheeple are so content with their unreal reality shows and other such nonsense that it's not needed.

That being said, the coming raiding of people's bank accounts by order of the big banks - ala Cyprus - might possibly awaken the sheeple and convert them back into people; highly outraged people!

We often refer to the elite as "stupid, greedy bastards."

BASTARDS they may be - but probably not since most of their wealth is inherited.

GREEDY they definitely are.

STUPID they are NOT! They are smart enough to know that it is possible - not necessarily at all certain, but possible - that the sheeple will revolt and seek to hang them from the nearest tree or lamp-post. They are arming their minions accordingly. It is the wise and prudent thing to do. Should the sheeple suddenly become a few hundred million angry people the elite will want a strong buffer group to protect them; at least until they can get their fat butts out of the country but preferably even longer so that they can continue in their greedy ways.
@ AndNow NOW I get your unusual arm position in you photo. I think I saw many like it on old newsreels from Nuremberg.

Peace 'n Love, Baby.
I don't think that the US economy would collapse. The American debt is proportionally actually not so big, it is just the normal rate among western economies. And Americans (banks) have borrowed the money mainly from themselves as somebody already wrote above. And on the other hand the debt is mainly in dollars. It isn't very difficult to print it more.

The recent upheavals in the world financial system/economy seem to be mainly due the fights between euro and us dollar. Little by little euro will replace the us dollar as the most important currency of the world. And Chinese Yuan and Indian Rupee are following...
sorry, crackpot stuff.