If you are wondering just how insane things have gotten around here, let me share this with you. I am apparently guilty of making "calm" and "measured" criticisms. I am also a "conscience-less sociopath" as evidenced by the fact that I failed to "lose [my] composure." (I am also "utterly dishonest" because I disagreed with this person's opinion, but that sort of criticism is a dime a dozen around here, and hence much less interesting.)
It never occurred to me that someone would take offense because I argued, debated, or disagreed without getting angry and losing my cool. I have tried to figure out how one answers a charge like that, but I'm pretty sure there is no response that would satisfy my detractor.
The more people are discouraged from speaking their minds, the more calls there are for particular people to be banned, the more I feel that I can't win for losing, the less worthwhile it is to be here. I always believed that the real benefit from a site such as this was the ability to get and give honest feedback, but it seems that there are now enough people here who equate "criticism" with "cruelty" or who view disagreement in any form as inappropriate, to make it risky to say anything other than "Great post!!"
Go on and feel free to be honest in comments--but only so long as you tell me what I want to hear. (That's a joke, people. Put down the knives.)
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I don't know that a reader disagreeing with you, nor any reader, has the authority to do that.......
Chin up, and ignore the idiots. Think about it this way: If you are hitting hard notes, and getting strong responses to your writing, I believe that you are doing good work.
Keep after it.
;)
I blogged for a year at True/Slant, a community of 275 writers, academics and others, all of us paid. In 800+ posts I received maybe two nasty comments; criticism of my ideas or analysis, sure. Welcomed it! How else do you learn new ideas or -- gasp -- have a reasoned dialogue.
The more middle school madness occurs, the more sane people will shrug and leave.
I've thought so, too. But the culture of OS is such that this is really, really hard to manage. I'll give two examples from my own experience, so that no one takes it the wrong way:
In her most recent post, Stellaa wrote about "I am vulnerable" posts; she observed that such posts tend to make the writer more sensitive to criticism than other kinds of posts. I know what she means. I've written at least one such piece; I posted it because I thought it had some artistic merit. I would have been okay with critiques, but if someone had written, "Just pull your pants up and get on with your life," that would have hurt my feelings. If I write more posts like that in the future, I'll have to be prepared for any and all kinds of comments that arrive--this is an open place.
Not everyone is willing to do that. I've seen some people, non-trolls, castigated as grammar Nazis. I've seen a number of posters write that they don't want to read critiques. I've seen some fair expressions of disagreement, like your examples, turn into flame wars. This is sad to see on what's supposed to be a site for writers.
Second example: Not too long ago someone wrote about her plan for becoming a professional writer. I'd read her posts, and in my judgment she needed to practice the craft quite a bit longer; her writing was average, not yet very polished. But how do you say that? I don't know. So I didn't say anything. I can imagine a site in which such feedback would be encouraged, but OS isn't it.
Finally... Great post!
As a conscience-less sociopath, I am obviously not upset by being "called out" for my crimes. But I am going to let you in on a secret, friends. I have been known to lose my temper. Particularly while driving. You should hear the words that come out of my mouth when I see someone texting behind the wheel. If we want to ban someone, how about we ban those people from driving?
A second one I read today was less believeable. WHO is writing PMs telling people to "watch your words" and "walk on eggeshells"?
Maybe they are not PMs and are in comments, I'm not sure.
You're one of the coolest ladies on OS. Please ignore the eejits . Remember, there are the "A" students, and there are all the rest. While I don't begrudge all the rest their fun in posting here, I do begrudge the concentrated focus on mediocrity they supply each other while constantly slamming the smart kids just because they can.
My hope for OS is that is does not adjust to the level of the lowest common denominator driving the rest of the best away for good :-(
I caught a scarily hilarious post by Wack Job Emma Peel today defending her insanity. Stellaa makes more stupid comments ignoring her venomous viciousness.
I've been accused of being a stalker, a serial killer, a child molester, and called every name in the book every time I would calmly and surgically dissect the utter lack of any ethical standards by this cabal of net nutcases. So I left. Nothing like having no accountability and a soap box to bring out the worst in people.
First, having now owned the title "conscience-less sociopath," I'm not inclined to give it up that easily.
But to the point you reiterate here, that you "did and do feel [my] comment was not sincere," I assure you it was. I think most of the people here can attest to that as they are better acquainted with me than you are.
You think that my "calm measure was meant to show [you] yellers up"? I understand that when someone is very angry, they are not always receptive to someone who has enough emotional detachment from the situation to remain calm. It's why domestic violence calls are the most dangerous for cops.
I really can't see how my wading in with fists swinging would contribute anything positive to the outcome. Or maybe you are suggesting that I should have waded in on your side with all the fury I can muster? I think that amounts to a call to join the mob.
When mobs form you will always see me moving as quickly as possible in the other direction.
oh, sorry, it's you guys.
I'm actually serious about the above, but I concede it's different when the offender is online and not my husband. Then the Obama Calm is called for.
This is probably stupid, or maybe evidence that I'm a really the one who is an "eejit," KellyLark :) But here goes...
I think perhaps this was not very "well said" if Bob Loobob thinks that it is in any way the same as what he describes. I would never claim to be "decent, ethical, [or] sane" in the same comment in which I referred to others as a "vicious wack jobs."
Back off your own anger, back off your own agenda, and actually think about the situation. Are you resolving the conflict or fueling it? Are you more interested in fighting or in coming to some mutual understanding?
When you make this kind of assertion, you need to back it up with evidence--clear evidence, with a list of the members of this coven of witches and proof of their nefarious actions. I have no doubt that you feel this to be true, but I also don't doubt that my sister-in-law is sincere when she tells me Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya. It is sometimes good to take a step back and consider that maybe we should examine hard evidence before we come to conclusions like this.
1. Attention posters: If you post about a volatile subject, be prepared for debate. Don't take it personally. We ought to be able to debate expressed opinions about even the most difficult subjects--race, religion, politics, current events, etc, without sinking OS.
2. Try using PMs to point out unintentional plagiarism or inadvertent spelling or factual errors. Those receiving suggestions: take a breath before you lash out and think about whether the PM makes sense. Hey, if it doesn't ignore it.
3. Just say NO to snark and/or public humiliation. Likewise name-calling. Gossiping on PM or making PMs public ought to be sanctioned. Oh, and being honest is not the same thing as being nasty.
4. As to posts about the writers' physical or emotional ordeals, even when advice is sought, all potential commenters need to go back to what Thumper told Bambi: "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
I'm leaving the door wide open and hope that you will all continue to (CALMLY!) discuss how to argue without it devolving too far.
Bring it sister, I've got game. We'll go 10 rounds.
There is some irony. I disagreed and lobbed back grenades to those who tossed them and then am mocked for being unreasonable and accused of trying to limit conversation. The few who have crowned themselves the elite here certainly can dish it out but can't take it. They have been after SS for weeks and weeks.
I really cannot believe that while I was gone someone stirred things up again. I really felt we had gotten past this crap a long time ago, but Surly shows up and starts it all over again. I'm really leery of getting involved because I know if I say "Mayo," somebody is going to light into me. I don't need that kind of ugliness in my life from the Miracle Whip people.
So eff off, Surly.
(Piggly Wiggle versus Whole Paycheck is a no brainer. You could walk to the local Piggly Wiggly from our house. You gotta leave the state to find that other store.)
I'm not sure what it is that I have said or done that you are disagreeing with or responding to. If you can clarify that I will try to respond to you.
Craze Czar, you aren't accusing me of making two thoughtful comments in a row, I hope ;p