YES & I HATE YOU! He Yelled at Me in the Costco Parking Lot
NOTES ADDED LATER FOR COMMENTERS:
USA Today Article from July 27, 2009 says the birth certificate for Obama is real.
Hawaii Gov. Lingle answers the birthers, who remain surprisingly unconvinced
"You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it's one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi'olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that's just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I think it's, again, a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this. ... It's been established. He was born here."
excerpted from the Washington Post, May 06, 2010
Main Entry: public forum
Function: noun
: a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly. (Dictionary.com)
"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution states, "Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech …". Despite this apparently absolutist statement, the United States Supreme Court has recognized that the right to speak is not equal at all times and in all places. While the Court has continually upheld the principle that an individual retains his or her constitutional rights in government-controlled settings, the Court must nonetheless balance the individual's right to speak with the government's interest in managing its property." (http://www.freedomforum.org/packages/first/publicforumdoctrine/index.htm)
This means that this right to free speech extends, with certain legally determined limitations, to public property. Our blogs here on Salon are not any kind of public property, it is private property where we are invited and allowed to blog. Each of us has certain rights in our own blogs that can be abridged by Salon.com as it sees fit.
Comments on this post were closed 6-1-2010 due to the overwhelming number of spam posts I've had to delete.
Thank you everyone for your thoughtfulness.
I reopened comments 4-27-2011 when the President released his birth certificate.
TIP:
Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Jonathan Wolfman
emma peel 2
escrito por nada
Ann Nichols
maria heng
rita shibr
Salon.com
Comments
Bill Maher said it very well: People who don't believe the President's a citizen are also people who wonder alous where the sun goes at night.
Thanks 1661.
There is so much hatred for President Obama. It's one thing if you don't like his politics. It's another thing if you don't like the color of his skin, which I think is the motivating factor for most "birthers."
Congrats for trying to be the voice of reason.
rated for the right kind of quiet(er) ferocity.
what a great day! (exits, whistling, full of hope glad to be part of OS)
I'm a conservative Republican, and I think these birther guys are crazy. BTW, did he also have Tea Party stickers, or did you just happen to choose a similar example to try to tar Tea Party folks with the same brush as birthers. The Tea Party folks have a point. The birthers are just nuts.
Case in point: I'm in line at the bank yesterday. Little gray-haired lady at the teller is chatting away. I'm biding my time. And then she let's loose with a string of smears about the President Obama's bailout. Exasperated, I lean in and say quietly, "Ma'am, that bill was proposed by George W. Bush at the end of his disastrous Presidency."
She replied, "George Bush? Don't get me started. He shoulda been impeached!" And she left, still ranting.
The bank teller and I died laughing.
Thus spake the voice of wisdom and reason. I've always wondered what made folk like you think you have all the answers, tom. Then it dawned on me; you're just lonely people that enjoy the strident sound of your own voices.
Challenging those who espouse particular beliefs is a worthwhile endeavour, Doctor. But it always pays to have backup when you do.
So, you can imagine what we think of birthers.
White Guilt & Privilege is truly institutional and shows up often, in bumper stickers for example. How long would a black man dwb with a Malcolm X bumper sticker before getting pulled over? As to tea baggers and white guilters attempts at physical violence, I found Utah's great O-rater Oren Hatch's performance of Face the Nation instructive- when pushed hard he actually physically reaches over and tries to silence his opponent, grabbing at his arms. This is privilege personified, unable to accept the new paradigm.
And kudos for speaking out.
What to do with people who really don't want to know the truth? I support your brave decision to confront the lie he was broadcasting with his bumper sticker. It might not have changed his mind, but who knows who else you got through to? I think we all have to challenge this crap if we are ever going to make any headway in returning this nation to sanity.
Brava, Susanne!
Gosh, maybe now I'll get brave and walk over to the guy camped out in front of my post office yelling "impeach facist Obama" and ask him what he's afraid of...
in my mind, you were doing that calm, rational thing as you spoke... you know...the sort of thing that annoys them and makes the asshats act even crazier.
i LOVE it!
Amen and a hallelujah! A good friend of mine used to say, "if everyone liked me, I couldn't think well of myself." I've cherished those words over the years.
Good for you Suzanne and congrats on an EP!
Thank you for speaking out.
But I have to wonder whether he realizes he's a bigoted idiot, and if he does, is he really going to change? And the honest answer is, probably not.
I would prefer to see less confrontation in Costco and more in major media outlets, who let windbags like Beck and Limbaugh prattle on with their bigoted nonesense unchallenged. We have too much appetite for spectacle and not enough for truth.
Usually, I see folks who think this way in groups with picket signs and in the kind of numbers that would just inspire an attack if I said anything. This fellow didn't look angry or stupid until I spoke to him. If my husband shaved his head he might look like his brother.
He didn't have a gun rack or an NRA sticker.
I don't think that some bigots entertain the idea that their prejudice is morally repugnant. I think they believe they are right.
I was raised by a hardworking, blue collar, absolutely redneck family. Some of them had a certain amount of disdain for education and they certainly didn't have a clue about how to do research and discover truth. It wasn't in their skill set and they relied on 'experts' and the advice of friends quite a lot. I think most of us were racist. Some of us changed our minds even without the educational benefits that I had. Uneducated people often do think that those of us who go to school are somehow weaker than they are. That we lack 'common sense.'
But here's the thing, I have both a good education and a blue collar skill set and I use all of those capacities in my life. I never did come to understand intentionally choosing ignorance. You don't have to be a redneck to do that.
For those of you who think you are smarter than I am, get in line.
And yes, I did have Jasmine Green Tea with my Pad Thai.
Thank you each and every one of you for your comments.
It was an amazing thing to see that I made the front page for the first time in over a year.
Oh, btw Susanne, I think we have some mutual friends. a married couple. Lynn and Steve (ski writer). Yes?
"Some of them had a certain amount of disdain for education and they certainly didn't have a clue about how to do research and discover truth." -- Doc
I had a similar experience at that same Costco. I was sitting at the cafeteria with a friend a few months ago. Two older couples, average in every way, were next to us loudly denouncing Obama as not being American because he was born in Hawaii. Their sub-text was clearly racist.
I leaned over, excused myself, then asked them if Bellingham was in the United States. One of the men said of course it was. I told him that I agreed because I was Canadian and had to show a passport to cross the border and pay for items purchased there with U.S. currency. I also pointed out that the last time I was in Hawaii that I had to do the exact same thing when I visited that state. I then asked how was it possible that someone born in an American state was not an American citizen? Dead silence for a while.
Then one of the women spat at me: "How dare you come to this country and question us? Go back where you belong! You're not welcome here." I said that I was, and that every merchant in the area was more than pleased to take my money regardless of the fact that I thought someone born in Hawaii was an American citizen.
We left them with their mouths hanging open. My friend was upset with me because she thought they'd follow us out, but I knew they were cowards. I'd have to be dead to sit there and not challenge that blatant racism and ignorance.
And I agree that redneck roots and higher education make for an awesome combination!
Monte
Reprobation,
Lobby-WHORE?
He vow kindness,
Non-HATE, Love,
O Sigh-FLOPS, Oy,
and Ya-KNOW, O!
he ate Coco-Puffs!
he chide Ya lovers!
he toothless creep!
he need bowl-shirt!
he stop parting hair!
he got ears-oil stuck!
he named guru toots!
he ate eel- rot-fruity!
he grouch-rot-tooth!
he a lawyer-snapper!
Ya stoke bald-heads!
`
he the moslem cleric!
he wear saffron robe!
he a demented monk!
`
Dr.? Ya give him kiss?
You give manicures?
He is a spiel `jenus?
He Albert Einstein?
`
Dr Susanne Freeborn. Thanks. I am bantering to FORGET the BP FIASCO!
Good News.
We have a former medical student (last summer) farm apprentice here visiting us.
George Washington medical student visiting us, and She insist She (a Physician Dr. someday? Yes.) do the weekend cooking, and we hungry hippo-farmers did not mind her Hospitality and culinary skills. I gotta consume her victuals and You (THANKS) do not show hostile (TRASH) hidden intent. I HOPE this light-hearted comment is comprehensible?
Although I'm not sure I'd have approached him; wouldn't want to also lock antlers with one of those crazies who insists on open carry for his arsenal of sexual adequancy illusions.
But good for you for standing your ground. There are some people who are determined not to be swayed.
Lezlie
Lezlie
I think it is important to make it clear to others that not everyone believes the way they do, that they do not exist in a vacuum, so kudos. Or as Eldredge Cleaver said it, years later than the original quote in "Soul On Ice" "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem", I have never forgotten those words since I first read them some 40 year ago.
However, lately I have noticed I am starting to lose interest. I am really thinking that confronting these people, is a big waste of time and emotions.
Those who boil their intellectual discussions down to bumperstickers, or if they are a little less intellectually challenged, 30 second sound bites are not necessarily stupid. They may simply be challenged by shiny objects in their path that shorten their attention spans.
Good on you for confronting ignorance and stupidity. As long as you dont hope to change it, such actions may at least make you feel better.
I'm just not very good at it.
Interestingly the rabble are roused today, they don't like being awake to reality, are blinded by it's unfamiliar glare, and have no one other than bad leaders if any to form their opinions for them just now; but is it really better to just let them go back to sleep?
If only we could change their minds, what a force for actual needed change; but admittedly I don't know how to either!
Rated for rising above the hate.
I don't highjack your blog with side issues, now please, don't do it to mine. I didn't post this to cause more fights.
I didn't yell at this guy at all, he yelled at me. His bumpersticker was clearly telling me what he thinks and I asked for a clarification or two. He didn't like it, but he made them.
Everything I said here is true, and that's how I'd like to keep it.
However, just answer me this: Why hasn't anyone publicly seen and held this certificate? What's the big deal? If I need to acquire certain documents or proof of citizenship, I have to produce my birth certificate. Period. Authorities will not accept the word of the governor of my state that they saw it, they WANT to see it.
Gimme a good answer to that.
I wrote about one of them for this weekend here:
http://open.salon.com/blog/susanne_freeborn/2010/05/28/for_bill_fix_with_love_42_memorial_days_later
A bumpersticker is one kind of free speech, what I did is another.
John Boni, I refer you to paragraph two of my post.
I can't live my life as if I am afraid of people. What a way to suppress one's right to full and complete self-expression! We have a right to be as completely true to ourselves as we can be so long as what we do does not harm another and break any laws. Here's what would make me afraid: living a mousy, dull life. Yuck! Here's to full self-expression and a life filled with joy, laughter and fun!
Rated!
Sam Wunnels, you are being just plain stupid. You pick your battles, or you'd better not fight at all. Yelling at a teabagger is like screaming at an infant for pooping his diapers. The infant won't learn anything and may grow up to be an angry adult that will murder you in your bed. Calling a redneck a racist will only get him to throw a rattlesnake in the open window of your car when you're stopped at a stoplight. (I once had the misfortune of hearing a genuine Klansman brag about this. It actually happens.)
You try to reform those people who have reason and intelligence. You either avoid the others or prepare to defend yourself to the death against them. That's real life. Sorry that I had to introduce you to reality this late in life.
So tell me, tom, are you naturally obtuse or do you merely work hard at it?
When you live in fear of others, that isn't living. Standing up as Dr. Freeborn did and confronting a racist redneck who had the audacity to proclaim his ignorance for all to see was a most appropriate response. She was in a public parking lot with her husband nearby.
I think she well and truly chose which battle to fight, and I applaud it. Now, you chose to demand of us that there is only one of two proper courses of action. I heartily and openly disagree with you, there are many possible ways of dealing with that sort of person and it is up to the individual to decide which they want to pursue. I must have missed the part where you were elected lord and master of all.
Maybe you should try taking some of your own advice?
(Rhetorical question).
I commend you.
I have long stated the "birther movement" are just racists and nothing more.
Like you experienced these people are not interested in the facts, they heard something about Obama they liked and if it's a lie well that doesn't matter to them.
Calling them out is vital, and like I've always mused about when the same people attack me online they will just run away from a real life discussion of the hate and paranoia rumors they are spreading.
Ha-ha, Carville. He's the new lizard king.
Here's my question again: Has the actual birth certificate been made available for inspection? I'm asking. The issue has never been on my radar, but you and others are adamant about it, so I'm asking -- if this President is as transparent as he says, why hasn't this birth certificate been released so that this matter can be put to rest?
For that matter, why hasn't his law school, law review and other records been released either?
Let me put it this way: You have a diploma. A certificate that verifies your training and accomplishments as a doctor. Are they on the wall of your office or do I have to take someone else's word that they exist?
And, would YOU go to a doctor who SAYS he's got the necessary training and education, but doesn't display the proof on his office wall?
You tell me which other President has been required to show their birth certificate. I am probably not quite so old as you are, but I can't remember at any point in my life, or in any of the history classes I took in high school or college hearing any lecture or reading any book that this was ever an issue with any other president and I find that a curious fact.
I was looking for MISSION the Florida Blogger.
Earlier, I was glad to see Geezer64 commented.
Geezer64 wrote a Great Book ref. Humanity.
It's somewhere in m bohemian clutter stuff.
Buy a bumper sticker`Honk if Ya a Amish.
You have a civic duty to tell if armpit stink.
If a citizen doesn't Tell the world descend.
The seas will be Dead Sea. See Black Seas.
Thee deluded and haters become Bizarro.
Joan Walsh will be on ABC's "This Week"
If people can't be less-greed-addicted, Oy!
There is a word I "heard" about`apophosis.
It means some stuff in nature is ungraspable.
Now, American humanity is riding a oil wave.
Crest. Crash. Wordlessness. And silence comes.
It is a word that conveys a Mystery of existence.
Hyperreal. Reality. We see a BLACK SEA Mess!
Sad. Melancholy. O, my. Mea Culpa. Shh Silence.
okay.
hi Dr.
Respect.
You do.
You did not substantiate things that you said earlier and then you start with the being offended thing. Really? Give me a break Kyle. I used your name when I directed my comments to you specifically. Other comments were not about you, except that you seemed to volunteer to interpret what I said to everyone generally as something specifically about you. You can't make me responsible for your interpretations or smear me with your generalized opinions.
i don't agree with your politics. Period. I have otherwise found you to be a polite person. We live our lives very differently. I am unafraid. You apparently think I should be a scaredy cat. I disagree. Anyone who actually knows me would tell you I am courageous. I earned it and I am not going to live like a frightened person listening to fearmongers. It makes life small, dark and difficult. Difficulties are easy enough to come by without inventing them.
John Lammi, tomreedtoon and John Boni also disagreed with me as well, and probably I don't agree with everyone who left kudos.
I told you what the point is: Free Speech and I told you why I think it is so important but you are so busy wanting to be personally offended that you seem incapable of understanding my point of view. I am not telling you that you should be like me. I wouldn't ever do that. I think you are entitled to your own point of view.
I am saying that we are all free to do things differently, and we are free to do that because people fought and died for our rights to do so. I am exercising my rights to free expression in living courageously and expressing support for truth and fact. I don't try to scare anyone. I don't lie to anyone. I never spread rumors and I am committed to speaking the truth.
You wanted me to be afraid of that guy. I just don't see why. He lives in my town. It's not a big place.
Hell in a handbasket...that's where this country is headed. There are too many people like the man you encountered. It's very sad.
I don't understand how it doesn't.
Speaking as a 63 year-old African-American nothing enrages me more than the excuses white people make for their racism. To hear some of them you'd swear racism was as rare an mysterious as the origins of Stonehenge or the Easter Island heads.
Putting a bumpersticker on one's car would normally be an invitation to conversation. But Teabaggers don't want to talk to you, they want to talk AT you.
And they're not about to be confused by the facts.
In some ways they're Obama's greatest dfense. There are any number of things to object to about hsi administration and its actions, but the Teabaggers have turned him into such an odious cartoon monster that the irrationality they foster forcloses all serious discussion.
That our President had to use this to remind us that we have more important issues to tackle is clearly embarrassing. I hope that the media and citizens take his message to heart and thinks about repeating unsubstantiated lies and the people who use them to dominate the airwaves when the world is in turmoil.