Terry's Rant....

Terry McKenna

Terry McKenna
Location
Dover, New Jersey, USA
Birthday
July 20
Bio
Conservative in the Burkean sense. Little tolerance for fools, less for liars (though I regularly vote for them).

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Salon.com
OCTOBER 30, 2013 11:19AM

Obama Lied About the ACA. Get Over It!

Rate: 9 Flag

Ok, the President Lied* About Obamacare

So what?

Did we think it was going to be easy to craft a major change like the ACA? 

And if we did nothing, what then?

Without the ACA (Obamacare) we would have ever more folks without insurance, as employers continued to drop group health insurance and others shifted more and more work to contractors who don’t get benefits.

And for folks over 50, well if you lost your job and benefits, any health insurance you could find was probably very expensive – and if your health was poor, unavailable.

Young folks may not realize just how many family decisions are made based upon whether a spouse has health benefits or not.  For many couples where one is a contractor, the other keeps a shitty job because he or she receives health insurance as an employee benefit.   This need to find and keep health insurance functions as a “tax” on behavior and creativity.  

Any move to a national health insurance, would have needed extra money from somewhere.  Had we gone to a single payer system, the money would have come in the form of a new tax (or been unfunded).  Since the ACA relies on private health insurance, much of the new money comes from the new insurance customers, whose premiums amount to a new source of revenue to fund health care.  There is also a new tax, the excise tax on Cadillac plans.  How a plan is deemed too generous (and thus a Cadillac plan is tricky) but however the details worked, the ACA necessitated more money from someone. In this case, the new money comes from insurance customers and from employers.

So… what lies did President Obama tell? 

The first lie was about cost.  Sorry, the president understated the price tag.  Your health insurance will probably cost more than your cell phone bill.  Though not necessarily more than your cable and cell phone and data plan combined.  And there are juicy subsidies for folks who earn less – so for them; maybe their net cost will be close to what the president stated.  (So maybe he didn’t lie at all!)

He also was wrong to say that everyone who has insurance will be able to keep it.  Not true.   

Many individually sold plans are not compliant; these will be cancelled.  For example, many have relatively low lifetime maximums, or carefully worded restrictions – so that if you got cancer (for example) you might exhaust your benefits on one year.  Yep, nothing left after your one big illness.  Sadly, you wouldn’t know till too late.   So the ACA makes things better.  But better costs money.

A few plans are grandfathered, but the issue of cancelled plans is turning out to be bigger than predicted. And more expensive.  But the one thing that is true is that, in the end, you will always have coverage for major illnesses under an ACA compliant plan. 

Employers are also making changes to avoid the excise tax for Cadillac plans.  Yep, even though they have the right to offer more expensive coverage, and pay the excise tax, most have opted to change.  Mine did.  So even employer plans are changing.

But what did we expect?  Especially, what did conservatives expect?  The ACA is largely conservative policy.  By forcing most folks to pay for insurance (or be taxed) it enforces personal responsibility.  The law also reduces the tax subsidy for employer paid health insurance – it does so indirectly, and in a curious manner, but the net result is to move in the direction long desired by at least one prominent conservative think tank.   

But having won on two points, why aren’t conservative happy?  (Because they are fucked up?)

If we didn’t make a big change (and Obamacare is a big change) the status quo would be a steady decline with the same bad fact patterns. 

So it’s done.  It’s needed.  Let’s make it work better.

*PS re the use of "Lied."  I used lied as a way to garner attention.   A headline should be attractive.  So that worked.  What I did not count on is how folks mistook a headline for analysis.  If you read carefully, you will see that I suggest the the president didn't lie.  Of course, in some way all political speech is lying in the sense the all the caveats are thrown out.  But that is not at all the same as lying.

The self styled conservatives who commented seemed not to read this at all.  Hence the focus on ends justifying the means, and on nazi lies.  Again, if you read carefully, you will see instead an argument that the ACA is really conservative policy, and should have been widely accepted.  But conservatives were in no mood to give Obama even a single vistory.  

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big story, lies, obamacare

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I'm glad I don't have to figure it out. I'm on Medicare with a good secondary provider who used to be our primary before my wife retired. Works smoothly most of the time. R.
my wife is medicare eligible next year. i'm 3 years off.
Why not just post the headline "The end justifies the means" and skip the text. That is, if you believe that.
There was no lie about the ACA. There was always a chance that providers could drop their coverage, and many of them were just receiving payment for virtually nothing. Otherwise, I agree with your general thrust, but the presentation wasn't dishonest.
Sorry Arthur, do you believe that a form of politics exists where no one tells at least half truths. We got into WW2 because of lies. They were worthy one, but still lies. In fact, I don't know if Obama actually "lied" or simply followed the best guess. And a too hopeful one.

But absent lies, what would you rather happen. And if you say let the markets work, you are 1) an idiot, and 2) I will start vomiting.
to Bill: my use of lie was to attract interest. I don't think intelligent folks should have been fooled. but it appears they were.
On the principle that says, "Half a loaf is better than none", Obamacare is better than nothing. But the shit is going to hit the fan when you try for that other half loaf that you really need for decent health care. Those in opposition to any form of health care (even their own plan if adopted by "them others") will look you straight in the eye and snidely tell you that, "you already got your damned health care; what more do you want?"

Having the patience to wait until you could have gotten a good health care system would have served your children and their children well. But then this generation of people is characterized by four words... me, me, me, NOW!

Good luck to y'all..........

R
.
"If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan."
~ Barrack Obama, August 11th, 2009


That was an out and out lie. What is worse is he knew it was a lie. That is NOT okay. It also is NOT done by a long shot.

Sorry dude, but there isn't enough Obama koolaid to wash that down.
You said it all with, people don't want to pay anything at all they don't want to take responsibility. o/e
sorry safe bet. you don't know what you are talking about. on many levels. think it through if you can and tell me why you are wrong!
I believe the term you are looking for is "Lying sack of shit"
Granted, it applies to almost all lawyers and elected officials.
Excuse me for wanting to keep such types as far away from the reins of power as possible, and resisting their dishonest attempts to take over by treachery our form of self government. Remember, this is the most "Transparent" regime in history- so I guess it COULD be worse, but thaat hardly justifies the outright lies of our prevaricator in chief.
and- "Get over it" Terry?- This from the people still encouraging the victimhood mentality of any class they can separate from society and convince they are ill used and are "owed" ?

You are probably one of the ones still insisting that the founding fathers thought of the slaves as 3/5ths human, rather than admit the reality that the ratio was instituted to keep the SLAVEHOLDERS from usurping the voting power of those who were not allowed to vote. Grow up.
Hello Herr Rudolph. You are a troll. You think me a liberal, but I am not. What I am is a conservative who is frustrated to find that self styled conservatives don't live in the real world. Too bad for all of us. We need an intelligent conservatism, not what you think is conservatism.
Dear Gawd, is this Rude guy for real?

How do slave holders usurp the voting power of slaves who have no voting power; I mean, don't you have to actually have something before someone can take it from you, or usurp it? And whether a slave (or former slave) had a 3/5ths vote or 100% of a vote, could the slaveholders not usurp all of it anyway? If your vote gets usurped does it even matter how much of a vote it is?..... Whatever it is - it's gone!

.
Hi Sky. Mr. Rude is a well known troll. (Which is internet speak for an asshole).
That red states are not cooperating doesn't help. It is reported that 5.2 million people won't get coverage because their state refused to expand medicare under the ACA.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2013/October/16/reform-medicaid-expansion.aspx


/r.
On the bright side, at least he didn't lie about the mandate to buy a shitty corporate product after he threw single payer under the bus.
Herr Rude.. would be nice to have a moral president once again, like Bush, wouldn't it, you moron.
Terry

Troll? I believe I've been here longer than you have- and I still find you every bit as amusing and self righteous as ever.

Trig

Ah yes, anus magnus returns, good to see you're back to your usual gaping sphincter self.
to Herr - so you are an old troll.
Terry,
Sorry sir but I must correct your logic. Rude simply could not be an asshole; assholes are useful.......
;-)
.
I have hope that by homogenizing HC insurance, it eventually becomes Medicare-for-all. Administered, to a great degree, by private companies, as is Medicare, so the equivalent of public utility companies. Defined and assured profit for service.

Rude is just a victim of his own ...uh....unique...version of history and "libbertie." Actually, the 3/5ths clause was a compromise, mostly to the advantage of slave states, to get them on board for the Constitution. Counting slaves as 3/5ths a citizen when they weren't at all represented gave southern states extra, disproportionate, political representation. This became known, for a time during the years before the Civil War, as "Slave Power."

Gee, Rude. Maybe you and UncleChri can combine your "unique" talents for making up constitutional theories and history and write a book. That way, at least 2 people would read it.
The author of this post seems to be channeling Adolph Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels; Saddam Hussein’s Information Minister, Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, and our own Hillary Clinton at the same time.

Goebbels: Vat matters is not vedder Obama told a lie. Vat matters is veder he told a BIG lie. If he told only ze SMALL lie, den dat is bad, bery bad. Ze prezident vill only be believed if he tells da BIG lie offen!

Al-Sahaf: No, you idiot! It doesn’t matter whether he tells a big lie or a small lie. He must speak from facts and rely on misinterpretations to justify what he says. I was denying that Iraq would lose the war on American television, while American tanks could be seen behind me in Baghdad. Even then I was telling the truth! No American believes that their country was, or will be, victorious in my country.

Clinton: You’re both wrong! What can it possibly matter now? How can something said four years ago possibly have relevance today? It simply does NOT matter. ObamaCare is the law! Don’t you see that? It’s done, it’s over, one side lost and we WON!

`
ah, one of the other open-salon trolls has visited. well, so be it. we can stand another asshole.
Uncle, I have read the memoirs of Goebbels, and he did not use pidgin German. He was all too articulate. Otherwise, kudos.
You guys belong to the Goebbels reading club? Yeah I've heard he has many similarities, philosophically, to Hillary Clinton, you morons.
Arthur... your flounce is over? You speak the German?
tr ig, You call people morons so often that it has ceased to mean anything. Sort of like a soldier saying "fuckin'". I still comment here, never said I wouldn't, but haven't posted in 23 days and am not tempted. Seems like a waste of time. I can read German, but have read Goebbels in translation. Thanks for your interest. Stay in touch.
Trolls?
More like Rwing dorks.
Chris thought he was witty.
He also thinks he's intelligent, and what does that say about his intelligence? (rhetorical)
Arthur knows Chris isn't witty, but nods approval because he's on Team Wingnut. His only true appreciation is for the imitation of wit, as if Chris' adolescent and entirely droll attempt "scored."

To be fair, Arthur is smarter than Chris, and what does that say about his intelligence?

You can answer that one.

That's a really bad Wingnut Vaudeville act, guys.
The Big Hook is dragging you off, stage right.
Paul J. - Have I told you lately that I love you? If I had a posse I'd name you minister of wit and sheriff too. You kill me man.

Art, see ya around ... it would seem
Selective hearing and sound bite addiction are the two major tools of the right ring. If they took the time to actually read the law they are trying to repeal, they might have seen the exceptions to the sound bite. Now I suppose they want the President to start talking publicly the way the infuriating pharmaceutical ads do on TV, speed speaking all the possible side effects. Politicians spin the truth. What else is new?

Lezlie
lezlie, Nice try, but if Obama had spoken only the truth when drumming up support for this law, it would not have passed. Too many Dems in Congress would have been afraid to vote for it. It's true enough that politicians cannot be trusted, but sometimes their weaseling makes little difference. In this case, it has made a huge difference.
Sorry about the dialect assigned to Goebbels. Perhaps Yiddish was a joke in poor taste.

It isn't surprising that Obama has his apologists. However, trying to excuse his lies or gross displays of ignorance seems both futile and laughable.

Why not try to excuse Benghazi on the basis that he was too busy fund raising in Las Vegas? Why not try to excuse the IRS and the NSA on the basis of plausible deniability?

Impeaching this president might be counterproductive. Left to his own devices he'll give Liberalism, Progressivism, and big government such bad reputations that voters will reject all three for the next two decades.

`
I rated this for your bio and for a succinct description of an internet troll.
( said because I don't want them to know I liked the post also)
Yawn.....

The usual OS circle jerk is now in session. You kids have fun playing with each other, you aren't in any danger of convincing anyone else Meanwhile, the Bamster is at 53% disapproval rating and falling.
One more comment. Obamacare is already costing taxpayers money, on top of that if they have to purchase it it will be very expensive. So we would be paying DOUBLE OR TRIPLE for something we can't really use while the government rakes in the money and continues to cut programs, military, and other aid to american citizens who really need it while they help those who are overseas.