It's tempting to think this is manipulation of the Iranian people - keeping them in an agitated, fearful state to enhance the power of the leaders. Sadly, though, I think that view has got more to do with my own opinion of their position than with reality. Iran has a strong military and a much bigger population than Israel, not that they'll be able to throw ground troops (of children?) at Israel the way they apparently did at Iraq; and their Arab neighbors aren't definite allies, especially with their own conflicts to continue pursuing. I have to conclude that it would be sheer insanity to fuck with Israel.

I agree with your conclusion about Israel's position; I just hope they are able to exercise prudent restraint and not initiate a Bush/Cheney style preemption.

Trav you know as well as I do that most who want to debnk the Iranian leader's statements as somehow made up...don't care if they are made up or no, bc, in the end, their own lives are unthreatened by any catastrophe that may befall Israel and don't believe that the US would suffer from a catastrophe there (and you and I know that the US would).


r.

Waiting for Mandelbaum to come scrambling onto this post and challenge the definition of "is."

When Iranian leaders are quoted as saying they want "to wipe Israel off the map" the enlightened know they really said they wanted someone to wipe his soles on the mat.

Thanks for the post. Sorry for the levity, but with this crowd humour may be our best bet.

Not to ruin your day but, you do realize that convincing some of Iran's harmful, seriously harmful, intent is like telling a six-year-old that that is not Santa on the roof next door but a flock of lost geese.
Rated for the post itself as well as your "never say die" attitude.

This post constitutes hates speech and has been flagged as such. However, I'm sure it's okay because it's PRO-Israel hate speech. Freak'in hypocrites.

See what I mean Lew? Hate speech. I know she is not entirely serious, or hope she's not, but really it is so danged depressing.

SBA is unfortunately, a severely troubled person with no sense of balance. She sees every else's problems in high relief but is blind to her own.

Her typical path is, when she is at a loss for anything to say, to attack the poster personally.
Ahmadinejad said it, perhaps she should fly to Iran and approach him? Oh, wait, loud, irrational gay female, except for the irrational part, that combination may not be much influence in Iran.

How sad she is.

She is sad and MAN does she hate Israel.

Lew I never knew this issue, and to be trully honest, I think that some times politicians must be forced to do their work, simply as that, which surely is not war. We all as humans in our every day life, work and have to face the obligations, our wrongdoings from our work, we take it for granted that we will respect each other, that we will be responsible if we do any mistakes, and we try to do the best in making for us, for our loved ones a good life. I am very sad, when we all stand with responsibility and even fear to our everyday life, and politicians to do all the wrongs, facing no guilt and no actual blame. This is a general thinking on how politicians work all over the work, to my opinion, cause to be honest to this issue, your work is the very first knowledge I have for this. And I think that since we all here are educated, mature, and some of us even of some age (and I am talking about myself), we all can understand when an issue is set for information, discussion, thinking, and for nothing else. Rated.

@ Stathi,

This post actually reinforces what I said in my prior post about bigotry. Some people here have made a great fuss about the Iran-Israel contretemps, claiming that Israel's concern was conjured up and that Iran's leaders never were aggressive. These same people claimed that the previous statement by Ahmadinejad was purposefully misquoted.

As you can see, when I posted this new quote which confirms that Israel's concerns are real, SBA cannot deal with the truth but tries to suppress it with the silly and misguided charge of hate speech.

I don't expect that any of her ilk will be changed by this but I did want to put this statement in the record here so that the Israeli concerns about Iran can be seen as valid.

Best wishes,

Rated.

Wasn't going to comment but I see that SBA found her way here too, flagging this as "hate speech". Is there no end to this vilest and most detestable creature's attacks?
Thank you, Traveler, for your post. It conveys information found in the media.

Arthur Louis: "Waiting for Mandelbaum to come scrambling onto this post and challenge the definition of "is.""
I feel the love, Art.

Not sure why you guys care about anything I could add to this story. Yup, them's fightin' words, although a little context goes a long way. The antecedent is that Israeli defense minister Ehud Barak has just announced that Israel is ready to launch a Pearl Harbor-like attack on Iran, ostensibly to prevent it from pursuing a nuclear weapons program that even the US government insists it abandoned in 2003 after we knocked out Saddam Hussein and eliminated the need for it. The war is to last thirty days and cost 500 dead Israelis. No mention of how many dead Iranians it will entail, but that would be giving the game away.

In the meantime, someone in Tel Aviv slipped blogger Richard Silverstein what's purported to be a remarkably ambitious secret Israeli war plan, which essentially promises to "wipe Iran off the map," to use a phrase I've heard somewhere before. You can read it here:

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2012/08/15/bibis-secret-war-plan/

Barak and Netanyahu clearly expect the US to join in and finish the job for them. I don't have to tell you how serious the ramifications could be for the US, the whole Persian Gulf region, and the global economy.

This being the situation this week, I'm not sure what sort of public statement you guys are expecting from Teheran. Perhaps something along the lines of "Okay, we'll all drink the cyanide-laced Kool-Aid tomorrow at the stroke of noon," because nothing short of that is likely to sway "Bibi" Netanyahu at this point.

Okay, ridicule me now. But as you do so, don't forget that we're all in this one together.

I wish Mandelbaum would take her proof that Iran has no nuclear-weapons program and present it to President Obama. He seems to think that they do. So does everybody else, except Mandelbaum. What a dreadful misunderstanding. Why are we persecuting Iran?

So some punk who's 4' tall and weighs 80 pounds is taunting you. Do you have the right to do major physical injury to him because of that? When we're talking pure military / power relations, that's what we're talking about with Iran vis a vis Israel.

lefty,

In the 1920s, Hitler could have been mistaken for a 4-foot-tall weakling. However, he was entirely candid about what he would do if he seized power. It's best to squelch these threats early. You have to take what they say at their word. Once Iran has the bomb, its height and weight will increase dramatically.

@ Judy Mandelbaum

"Okay, ridicule me now. But as you do so, don't forget that we're all in this one together."

We don't want to ridicule you, Judy. I would just like you to admit that all those times you said that Ahmadinejad was misquoted and that they had only peaceful interests, that you were wrong.
Be an adult.
Admit you were wrong and Israel had a right to be worried..

"See what I mean Lew? Hate speech. I know she is not entirely serious, or hope she's not, but really it is so danged depressing."
Barbara Joanne

"SBA is unfortunately, a severely troubled person with no sense of balance. She sees every else's problems in high relief but is blind to her own."
the traveler

"Her typical path is, when she is at a loss for anything to say, to attack the poster personally....
How sad she is."
the traveler

"She is sad and MAN does she hate Israel."
Barbara Joanne


really? because to my eyes the only people here making personal comments are you two, while SBA's comment was about this post.
so what? because we dislike someone personally we should take away their right to an opinion on a topic?

i dont always agree with SBA, but i would defend her right to her opinion till my last breath because i know that i could easily be the next one shut down.

Lorianne, I have the same belief, that a human has the right on the opinion, just as you said, but when me, -just as you are doing now for your friend-, said this truth for one of the members of OS, SBA called me a Nazi, and many more names.. There is a difference Lorianne, a strong difference, and to be honest although I admire you for standing next to your friend, it is also a very sad issue to me, when me being called a Nazi, by your friend, means nothing to you, only because I am not your friend, or because you have not faced these issues. Makes one trully feel that for some in here, there is no common sense, only friend sense.

@Old New Left

Your opinion, OK to have.
You own facts, not so much.

Israeli Armed forces ~ 176,000 active and reserves 500,000
Iran alone 500,00 active and 1.8 million reserve

Israel has about 7.7 million people (including about 1.4 million Arabs)
Iran has 75.6 million people (including about 10-30,00 Jews, down from 100,00 before they were expelled and 300,00 Bahais who are not recognized)

Israel has 8,000 square miles
Iran has 636,000 square miles.

(it may not be obvious but if all of the Iranian population marched into Israel there would be 8800 Iranians in every square mile of Israel, Negev desert included). This is a greater population than any other country in the world including Singapore, currently number 1.

And this doesn't even count the other Arab countries, all sw0rn enemies of Israel. So when you are saying that Iran or any of them is 4.8 and Israel is the bully, you are being either silly, stupid or intellectually dishonest.

stathi - i am not addressing SBAs character or her comments elsewhere. i am not standing by my friend as you say, i am standing by a principal - the right of individuals to have an opinion that is on topic of a post. had this individual been you or anyone else, i would have made the same comment. i didnt come to this post to defend amy. it was just glaringly difficult to miss.

i was not privy to whatever happened between you and amy and so i cannot speak to it. and i am uncomfortable discussing it on someones post as we are derailing the post itself by doing so.

@ Lorianne

Are you serious.
Compared to the way SBA feels free to attack me and anyone else, calling her sad and severely disturbed is mild.
She is a loose cannon, says what she wants but expects special treatment in some way - just because she is so rude.
Why don't you go back and read her comments on her page and then tell me why she should be treated any differently?
As far as I am concerned, by her own behavior, SBA has foreclosed the right to any civil treatment.

Nice title Lew... might read later

traveler - it is of course as much your right to be an ass as it is hers. i just felt the need to speak my mind regarding those who call for civility being less than civil. i wasn't aware that the call for civility had a caveat.

noted.

@ lorianne

yes, and I reserve that right for special occasions - and special people.

This is a very interesting post, and I rated it. I'm in the same thoughts on all of this as most of you. However, that being said, Safe Bet's Amy is someone I consider a friend on here, just like I consider many of you to be friends. I have enjoyed reading SBA's work. I think you have misunderstood her, much like I first misunderstood Libby. I don't agree that this post constitutes Hate Speech, but I also don't think SBA deserved to be talked about so badly for speaking her opinion.

Hate to quibble, but Iran has F-4 fighter jets left over from the Shah. The Israeli air force has the latest toys that Uncle Sam can give to it. And as you know, unless either country is planning to use ground troops to invade the other country physically, the number of people in the army doesn't mean a damn thing. Same thing with the size of the country and the population.

China should have the most feared military in the world if you were judging on army size and square miles of the country. Unfortunately this is not so. The USA beats everybody combined in the military department. Similarly, you have to admit that pound for pound, the most highly trained all around military and intelligence forces in the Middle East are the Israelis.

And even if Iran would get one A-bomb, how would this compare with the 200 that the Israelis have? The Isreali military has any number of ways to inflict bodily harm on the Iranians. The Iranians might have a ballistic missle or two. The Israelis have an air force, submarines with nuclear cruise missles, etc. I stand by my statement.

@ Lynette Stark

SBA has, in my absence and on threads about me, has said vile and untrue things and seemed to delight in it.
As far as I am concerned, she has lost any claim she has to even appear here let alone receive civil treatment here on my threads.
Her statement that my quotation of Ahmadinejad is hate speech is a bizarre distortion of the situation.
The only reason I left her comment in place was so that it stands as an example of how far she will go to attempt to deny the truth.

@ ONL

And the point of this thread stands. You and the entire coterie of Israel haters repeated ad lib that Ahmadinejad's statements were benign.

Clearly they were not, his statements were not.
If Ahmadinejad wanted peace in the region, he would do everything he could to assure Israel that Israel is in no danger.
What does happen is the reverse. There is a constant barrage of sabre rattling. Witness the talk today by Hizbollah leader who talks about tens of thousands of rockets hitting Israel.

You are taking issue with Israel being prepared against a stated threat.
Ahmadinejad threatens a calamity, should we not believe him?
Why not take them at their word and be prepared?
If you were surrounded by hostile neighbors that constantly verbally threatened your very existence, wouldn't you?

lorianne,

I am delighted to see you step in and criticize OSers who make ad hominem attacks on people whose opinions they dislike. I wish you would do that when such attacks are leveled at me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe I have ever seen you chastise SBA for her ad hominem attacks on others whose opinions she dislikes.

This despite the fact that I have seen you appear in the same comments sections countless times when she is doing this.

So I think maybe Stathi is correct, that you sometimes let friendship override your standards of appropriate behavior. Friendship is a swell thing, but perhaps you shouldn't speak out about what you consider appropriate behavior when you give friends a pass when they violate the rules you set down.

Anti-Israel rhetoric, in all forms, is actually a requirement in Iran, uniting the masses against the monster enemy (Israel). Ahmadinejad is always front stage because he must recite what his masters (the Mullahs) order him to say. It is the lame, malicious anti-Zionist propaganda spewed under the veil of political correctness that is much more dangerous. R

J H Robbins - your comments were super.

Ms. Mandelbaum - do you really not see the difference between what Ehud Barak said and what Iran is saying? That surely isn't possible. Iran is saying we are going to kill you. And Barak is saying, if you are treatening to kill us, be warned, we may well defend ourselves by hitting first. If two little boys, literally two little boys were in this situation, one standing with his fists up and saying "I am going to kill you" and indicating he had the will and power and the other one raised his fists and hit first, you'd really think them equally at fault?

If a man stood on my front steps and pointed a gun at me and spoke in WHATEVER wording that indicated to a reasonable person that he was going to kill me or do serious damage to me, I would not be guilty of murder if I grabbed a gun and shot first. (And I suspect no jury would convict me. Although if you were on it, it could well be a hung jury. Damn.)



As to the bombing of Iraq years ago to put back its nuclear program. I knowo you think it had abandoned it, but what if that is not so. (And I suspect it was NOT so.) Don't you think Israel did a heck of a lot of the world - INCLUDING MILLIONS of MUSLIMS AND ARABS AND IRANIANS a favour by (and given that THEIR intelligence said Iran was working still on the bomb) knocking that nation's efforts back by years?

Does anyone REALLY believe that Israel, a pariah among nations - because and only because it is a Jewish state - would open themselves to the wrath of the entire world by wiping Iran off the map? I suspect any bombing will be done as carefully as possible with the attempt to spare political screaming from the anti-Israel crowd that rules most of the west AND in an effort to spare lives. And I ask, if Israel truly wanted to wipe any nation off the earth, given that it has the bomb, why hasn't it done so?

Let's cut to the chase. If Israel was a nation founded by Arabs from anywhere, we'd not be having this conversation and the traveler could spend more of his time on his lovely photos.

Old New - yep if that punk has a gun or weapon and indicates he will use it, you have the right to strike first to defend yourself. See my comments to Ms Mandelbaum.

Loraine, I was talking about SBA's silly "hate speech" comment which, I suspect was made because she hates Israel so much. I base that a history of comments she has made on Israel on my page.

Loraine - that straw man - you know the one you are setting up indicating that someone said SBA had no right to have an opinion or voice it, is falling over. I love it that SBA voices her views. I just wish they weren't so sillly, angry, and full of, in my view, hatred toward Israel and, I suspect, any person - especially Jews - who support her (Israel).

I'm on a break between sets at a gig typing on an IPhone, so I'll comment more completely later. Observing that Iranian rhetoric is consistently threatening to Israel, which it is, is not hate speech by any stretch of the imagination.

I'll answer ONL later.

Addressing this as hate speech is ridiculously over the top. It takes such a convoluted mental process to begin to believe that that I may actually be impressed. The observations about Ahmedinejad are factual. Reporting is not hate speech.

I'd like to point out that Ahmedinejad is guilty of, among other things, what Rwnutjob lost his account over. Ahmedinejad holds Holocaust denial conferences in Teheran.

I said I'd answer ONL when I reached a keyboard. I have, so:

There are a few things to remember about Iran and Israel.

1. Iranian rhetoric constantly refers to Israel's destruction, the famous misquote notwithstanding. When Iran holds military parades with hardware, the missiles often have messages scrawled on them (like we used to to in WWII) but, in this case, the messages are about Israel.

2. Ahmedinejad's Holocaust denial conferences indicate that he has no objection to vilifying Jews. Not Israelis, Jews.

3. Iranian proxies, particularly Hezbollah, have killed plenty of Israelis already.

4. Regarding nuclear vulnerability: Unlike Iran, Israel is so tiny that you could basically wipe it out with a few warheads. Having a hundred or two hundred gives Israel a deterrent but doesn't make it safe from a nation that regards dying in a holy war as a good thing.

5. Regarding aerial vulnerability: Yes, jet to jet Iran wouldn't have a prayer. Israel's pilots are reputed to be the best in the world. However, ground to jet is a different matter. Those missiles aren't quite so antiquated.

6. Regarding Israel's nukes: Israel has never, to my knowledge, threatened to destroy another nation. Iran has spoken repeatedly about a desire for Israel to stop existing.

As usual concerning isrealhell in palestine discussions, i find myself at the beginning too often stumped by a challenge of ''where to begin?",,, square hole round peg ist square square one wishing a drink would help sometimes does more often never wonder waits false accusation unfounded recrimination insinuation from provocations like millions miles away from crime scene zionism...used to think had to be zionism that was peaceful thinking long time had to be, just had to be else doom awaits all. was wrong. but would be great had not we lost mans soul forcing mothers bests to die in mothering arms wars without end killing other mothers bests our rich get richer our lords sip wine to god bless america, all is fine.

goat milk nite.

ready.

Comparing, from above:

= = Agence France Presse: "Israel is a 'cancerous tumor' = =

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: “The zionist regime and the zionists are a cancerous tumor. Even if one cell of them, cells of militant zionism, is left in one inch of Palestinian land, in the future this story (Isrealhell in Palestine) zionism will repeat. "

Does President Ahmadinejad say "Israel" anywhere? If there are quotes {reliably accurate, precise English translations of Farsi} where the President, the supreme leadership, any assembly members use the arab, hebrew, english or whatever word persians label the zionazi state in palestine, "Israel" State of Israel, i'd appreciate a link. Meanwhile, as the most virulent strain of militant zionism is performing slow motion genocide under the aegis of a United States' government allegedly of, by and for said government's peoples ... ...!? Two things wrong with that picture: First, the U.S. government is not of, by and for its peoples. Said government is bought, plain and simple. Bought, on credit of course. Second, the nuclear armed militant zionist amoeba exists in palestine not under the aegis of a United States government, but, like an appendix, yet oddly not organic to, originated from body of said government or its peoples.

i suspect President Ahmadinejad, lot's of his fellow Persians, a lot of other Shia and Sunni, and others in the world cannot even spit the word, the concept "Israel" off their tongues. Since well before 1948, as Herzl's zionism evolved from what some jews then as now considered heretical, even suicidal thoughts ----becoming so impatient with "god's yet to revealed plan" as to contemplate or discuss, mucless engage in pre-empting god's delivering god's promise to jews, a land for israel--- to more than intellectual discussion , eventually to full blown murderous aggression on, subjugation , occupation, undermining, oppression of others. god's israel is a state of mind, not holy settlements, archaeological digs, specious temples, nuclear missiles, apartheid, zionism unleashed.

= =ISNA news agency: "They (the Israelis) know very well they don't have the ability" to successfully attack Iran, foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast was quoted as saying by the ISNA news agency. "If they make a mistake, our nation's reaction will lead to the end of the Zionist regime," he said. = =

It's stupid to think Foreign Minister Mehmanparast would sign off on ISNA's transcription/allegation of something attributed to him or his office like " They (the Israelis) know very well ..." . "They (the zionist) know very well ...." is more accurate a translation, meaning and intent. Not all Israelis are Jews. Not all Jews are Israelis. Not all Jews are Zionist. Not all Zionists are Jews. Not all Israeli are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Israeli. Besides, the first step in not recognizing someone is to not say their name, ever. Be like they do not exist simultaneous with wishing them speedy dissolution.

Not long ago the mentality of American Zionism ---Protestant, Jew, Mormon Catholic, agnostic, atheist, all--- had effectively succeeded in removing the word "Palestine" from American lexicon, even as virtually every good Bible in the pews, bible classes and homes in America were beautifully colored and labeled maps of the Holy Land, every single one of which showed and labeled Palestine, the land of Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection. A name for a place, peoples and history that was never spoken, never spoken of, beyond church lessons' walls. Palestinians? They do not exist. Never did. One could peruse years of post-early 1950's archived mainstream newspaper, radio and television news, programs, events never encountering the word "Palestine", never ever ever the word "Palestinian(s)". Thoroughly corrupting the language of communication in the previous century could take decades; nowadays, technology has reduced the incubation period to months, even weeks and sometimes just a day or two.

Lynette,
I agree, i don't think Trav's post is "Hate Speech". Up until now, the post is just of Trav's three short sentences and a question sandwiching three cut/paste excerpts from two different news sources, hardly a speech to be sure. Hate Gift it is however... wrapped mischievously in poorly disguised banality that is about as benign as a razor-bladed Halloween apple.

The alleged hate-mongering it attempts to magnify only reveals the war-mongering that it serves.

Interesting it is that os, not at all unlike U.S., threshold for tolerable hate-mongering is far lower, even as hate-mongering is exponentially far less consequentially catastrophic, than the tolerable threshold for war-mongering. When it comes to war, soldiers are dying for love, hating to hate, killing to rest. A soldier's sponsors and cheerleaders hate only the time that keeps them from feeding their lusts for spoils of war.

@ anti-terror

It is difficult to find a nugget that would make your point so I will just reply as if what you said was understandable.

I do not think that Iran means anywhere else but the State of Israel when they refer to Zionists - and neither does any other conscious person.
This post was made only to show out that the major point for most of the Israel-haters is was invalid. Iran is not Israel's friend. The Iranian government spends much of its public time telling the populace that Israel is illegitimate state and that Israel will soon be eradicated.
Israel is correct in being concerned and is right to be ready.

trav@832pm says " ONL and the entire coterie of Israel haters..." which is a worn out, typical disparaging ploy enjoyed by zionists whose overriding intent is to subvert discussions that close in on the inherent fallacies, militancy and immorality of zionism.

Hating an ideology cannot justly be conflated with hating all the people who hold to that ideology either with conviction or for lack of something genuine and true to believe in. Or conflated with hating a society of peoples being led by shameless fear-mongers, ruthless assassins and inveterate liars. It's never the fault of all the peoples in a society.

Zionism is a cancerous tumor in the body politic of Israel.

Extinguishing the militarist ideology of Zionism does not extinguish Israel but would end Israeli colonialism.

You are arguing about my word use; that is dissembling.

The point of this thread is that the common accepted wisdom and the main arguing point of those who criticize Israel is that Iran's leaders have been intentionally misquoted and that Israel has no need to be prepared.

Ahmadinejad has proved them wrong.

Say there is a country called USland. USlandi ideology is structured from, on and around a tome of collected myths, specious stories around which USland founders and members commonly agreed are the higher principles and ethical standards a substantial number of USlandi could coalesce to create USland. Since no unoccupied, unclaimed habitable lands were left on the planet of Birth that USlandi-minded people could wait for and peaceably make their own, they were impelled to war upon a peoples whose land and waters USlandi determined was worth killing, when not as well dying, for. USlandism had found, ie created from the blood and ashes of others, a homeland. However, but for the support and alliance with a government of peoples who lived on similarly acquired land to call their homeland, USlandi had no friends on planet Birth and in fact lived surrounded by the very peoples they had abusively displaced, peoples whose enmity toward USlandism is understandably of a compounding, generational nature. Even so, virtually no well informed, educated Birther believes, muchless wants, USlandi as a whole to be wiped off the lands of Birth, erased from the heart of history. The ideology of USlandism does not, however, enjoy the similar fruits of human compassion and love for humankind.

You are off topic and I have no interest in supporting that.
If you want to preach, start your own thread.

I don't think OS is some holy place but we should expect some standards. SBA is a tedious scourge.It amazes me that she appears to be be tolerated here. I, for one, have had enough of her idiotic and psychotic blatherings.

Good post, Traveler. Try your best to ignore that scourge lady.

@ Fernsy,

Thanks.
As far as I am concerned SBA doesn't exist on my posts.
That would be the best way to deal with her.

Lew

Fact: Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Israel does. Fact: Iran is building the capacity to build nuclear weapons which is not the same thing as having the ability to build nuclear weapons. Fact: If allowed to proceed, Iran will have the capacity to build nuclear weapons but, again, that's not the same thing as having nuclear weapons. Fact: In 1920, Hitler was a frustrated artist and wallpaper hanger. No one meeting Hitler in 1920 would have been able to foresee what he would become and, indeed, there were thousands of "Hitlers" running around Germany at the same time. Hitler was merely the one that history threw it's weight behind. Hitler was the result of historical economic and political forces that created the dictator he became, just as Romney, today, is being pushed forward into a position of leadership he neither deserves nor will do justice to simply because he happens to be at the nexus of interacting forces.

Here is the crucial difference: In 1925, Adolph Hitler published a book that described exactly what he was going to do and why he was going to do it. The book became a best seller in Germany, and then he proceeded to do exactly what the book said he was going to do.

There's an enormous difference between suspicions based upon prejudices and anticipations built upon statements in evidence.

The Iranians have publicly stated what they want to do to Israel, why and approximately when. When someone tells you that he's going to rape your wife on Saturday, you don't wait until Saturday. You haul his ass before a judge, charge him with criminal assault, and you throw his ass in jail for awhile.

Take this out of the anti-Semitic arena. Take it back to December 1941, when we knew that Japan was going to attack us, knew approximately when they were going to attack, and new approximately where....but we did nothing because we had no evidence to predicate a response because the Japanese never made a public statement to that effect.

Iran has made a public statement to that effect. Leave anti-Semitism out of it. Any nation, regardless of its religious or ethnic history, that doesn't respond with a preemptive strike to prevent such an assault as the Irans are telling us is in the offing is just plain crazy.

Any nation has the right to defend itself when an attack is imminent. The question is, "When is imminent imminent?

Right now would be about right.

The bravado aside, there's no way that the Iranians can win a war against the Israelis, and it's not because of the US. Israel has some willing partners out there who want to topple the current Iranian regime, including roughly a million Iranians who live outside Iran today, along with several moderate Arab nations who will stand aside and watch Iran being attacked because they are sick and tired of Iran meddling in their internal affairs.

Iran is an outlaw nation attempting through ineptitude to upturn a world order over which it has no real leverage.

Prediction. Wait and see what happens.

@SageMerlin
Thanks for the interesting and even-handed evaluation of the issues.

Sagemerlin,
Thank you for that

Nice propaganda Traveler.

First off: the opening line "Israel is a cancerous tumor that will soon be finished off" is not what Ahmadinejad said.

The gathering was not an annual protest against the existence of the Jewish state. It was Quds day which according to wikipedia is an annual event expressing solidarity with the Palestinian people and opposing Zionism as well as Israel's control of Jerusalem.

Israel, Jewish State, and Zionist/Zionist regime are not interchangeable.

You have his quote "The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumor." I will take your word that this is what he said since with a quick search I can't find a credible translation. The fact is Zionists have stolen and continue to steal Palestinian land. They are like a cancer which grows out of control. Currently, Palestine has 17% of its historic land, the rest has been taken by the Zionists. The quote goes on: "Even if one cell of them is left in one inch of land, in the future this story"--Then you have in parenthesis because he didn't say it (of Israel's existence) "will repeat." It seems to me he is saying if you don't get rid of the Zionists who steal land then they will continue to do it. He doesn't mention Israel's existence.

He along with most others in the region want to get rid of the Zionists. Why? Because they steal land by force and continue to threaten most of the region with their 200+ nukes and high tech military arsenal supplied by Big Brother USA. I can certainly understand why they would not want a trace of the Americans and Zionists in the Middle East.

Note, he doesn't say anything about Jewish people. He is talking about the Zionists and the Zionist regime, much as someone in the USA would hope to have no trace of the Neocons and the Neocon regime of Bush (or for that matter, Obama).

People in Iran may Chant Death to Israel, Death to Iran, but the fact is Israel and America actually cause death to Iran - See the murder of Iranian scientists for example or the brutal sanctions that will certainly cause the death of innocent people, including many children. Its like when Madeleine Albright was asked about reports that US sanctions in Iraq caused the death of 500,000 children, she said "we think the price is worth it." USA! USA!USA!

@ Alaska Progressive

"First off: the opening line "Israel is a cancerous tumor that will soon be finished off" is not what Ahmadinejad said.

The gathering was not an annual protest against the existence of the Jewish state. It was Quds day which according to wikipedia is an annual event expressing solidarity with the Palestinian people and opposing Zionism as well as Israel's control of Jerusalem.

Israel, Jewish State, and Zionist/Zionist regime are not interchangeable.

You have his quote "The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumor." I will take your word that this is what he said since with a quick search I can't find a credible translation."

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/18/232881.html

There is one source within the Arab World.

First you say he didn't say it.
Then you say he say but he didn't mean exactly that Israel would be destroyed.
Then he imply well, if he said it and he meant it, then Israel deserved it.

The point of this blog post was that Iran is using aggressive words and, by the words, is making preparations by Israel seem responsible.

If Ahmadinejad was misquoted or if he was misunderstood and he didn't mean what EVERYONE thinks he meant, why isn't he rushing to correct the impression?

Don't use this post thread to re-argue the middle East issues you hold to so dearly, stick the the point of the post.