Rated for point, counterpoint. (I liked the original, too.)

Would no comments translate into we are embracing the silence?

"What women don't
know
they can't learn while talking"

It's hilarious when taken out of context!
I also think your bio is funnier if it's something you made up as an attempt to duck criticism.

Those two observations made--I can dig it. I can dig both sides.

I like men. Men generally like me. We celebrate the things we like about each other, and accept the things about each other that we don't. Done. That's not so hard.

Tijo, I think you may have misunderstood the other poem. Both men and women can be critical of each other. Maybe you have experienced this from someone you cared for - that is unfortunate. Asking women to suppress themselves to silence does not seem productive in coming to an understanding in communication between men and women. Any human, regardless of their gender shuts down when being continually criticized, told to be silent or more often to shut up, or being constantly dictated to. or ordered around. One thing I have learned in life is that the only person I can change or control is myself.

Boanerges1, See we can take turns talking and listening.

ohsotender, but you did comment and I did listen (and laughed) . I even wish you had more to say. come back anytime. Thanks

Sam you have an evil mind. The bio is actually real and I don't mind the criticism if it constructive.

Be silent, lie back and think of England

Mrs. Michaels, I am so thankful for all the women like you in my life and here at OS. I too prefer to celebrate the good things in all of us. Part of writing this post was pointing out that assigning qualities to people based on gender can be divisive.

Leonde, I am not asking women to silence their voices but to consider it as another option when communicating. It took me a long time to realize that what I feel like saying now is often not what I wish I had said later and that at times being silent and seeing how I would feel later was the best form of communication.
I don't feel like I misunderstood the other post at all. I ruminated on it over night read it countless times and while it may have contained some good advice it also seemed to be slightly condescending. It was my hope to make a counterpoint here that women are good at one kind of communication and that men are good at another. That is why despite all the opportunities for being misunderstood I have opened up a dialogue. I hope you will be a continued part of it not just because I think we are saying the same thing but because you are part of opening up this topic beyond the basic sit-com nagging wife/stupid husband scenario. I think we both believe that men and women are more than that.

Great perspectives here sometimes being silent does work. Two-sided conversation are the best. Great post

Actually, I think in this instance, I was trying to maintain a voice of reason. I don't want to be misinterpreted. I have never spent that much time ruminating on someone's post nor (sorry everyone), I haven't read any of one's posts countless times. Robin's poem must be even more powerful than I thought it was and I thought it was beautiful. I also know that there are men who feel that way, this is not so much a man/woman dichotomy as it is the difference between someone who understands and knows what it is to truly love another person and feel the way Robin expressed in the poem. I really for the life of me, am trying to figure how things get taken so personally when encountering random posts here. I just saw something on another blog that got me feeling a bit ticked and you know what I did, NEXT! There is plenty to read here.

Yeah, I know. Real evil would be hijacking your thread with a discussion of whether the use of 'womyn' helps or hurts the cause. But that's not constructive, and what your trying to do here is. As trite as it is to say, the sexes largely communicate in different ways, and, though I'd never have thought it 6 months ago, you can pick up something from an online discussion. I copied my wife one of marytkelly's entries (it'll be easy to pick out from her archive), and she looked at me completely differently when I got home that night.

I have had to learn the wisdom of embracing silence in my first marriage of 28 years and my second marriage of 8 years. Both my husband sometimes communicated better through music and touch. I had to learn to stop talking and learn and listen to their language.

L, you seem to be having a discussion while claiming not to want one so maybe there is more to this topic than you let on. Your attempts to brand this as personal which I ignored earlier really don't accomplish much. The title of the post and the content are aimed at men not some genderless love. I think her post was a wonderful intro into a discussion that we all need to have.
The reason I read it countless times before I responded was because I knew that there would be people like yourself that would try to shut it down by saying it is personal etc. I hope you stay around and become part of the subject but the subject is how can we all improve communication, men and women alike. I'm trying to find a way for us all to take a little responsibility for better communication and I thank your friend for starting that discussion even though I only agree with part of what she said.

Oddly enough between me and my wife I am the verbose one, and my wife is fond of the 'silent treatment'. I am a big fan of getting it all out in a huge blow up. I routinely have to tell her "talk! I don't read minds."

Tijo - I think I'm going to take your advice and embrace the silence. Peace out. Wishing everyone here love and happiness!

Hy-Julie When I close my eyes and think of England I think of Jamie Oliver and how cute he is with that accent and all and as you can see it is a bit distracting.

Fireeyes, thanks. As someone who spends more time reading here than writing I love hearing all your voices. Some of my favorite writers here are christian although I am an atheist and gay. I have found that listening to some of them (Monte for one) has been healing. Most of my favorite voices here are women and I am glad to hear their diversity of thought. That of course includes you.

Sam, yeah I almost left that out but the coffee house served some hardcore womyn and I didn't want to leave them out.

Redstocking, thanks for your wisdom. I hope that you will come back here to this post and others and offer it often.

icemilkcoffee, I was always the talker too. "Talk it out don't act it out." I used to say then I realized that I was driving people crazy with too much processing and that instead of having a relationship I was talking about one. That of course was my own personal bullshit. I know I still don't have it figured out but I'm happier than I was so I guess it was a step in the right direction.

As a self-confessed "chude" (psychologically hitting the gender thing right down the middle - my definition), I often hear both sides in every relationship issue. I loved Robin's piece - and I love this one too.

Listening and Embracing Silence are very yin and yang - part of the same circle, yet not the same thing.

Thanks, Tijo - I dig this.

Both good poems with valid points. I believe this: there's a time to talk, a time to listen, a time to discuss and also a time to STFU. In any relationship (marriage, lovers, friends, colleagues, parent/child, teacher/student), if there's genuine respect, all should know when those times are. Or help each other learn.

Owl, I'm mostly a dude but pretty in touch with my feminine side so I guess that just makes me a dud.

Sally, thanks for the input here. My first real relationship was with someone who was very dysfunctional and in order to discuss anything I had to argue both his side and mine. I think I did a pretty good job of trying to see both sides but what I really learned was that each party can argue for themselves or they can argue for the relationship and that sometimes that argument was best done in my own head. It took me a long time to learn to just be quiet and let things play out for awhile. the need to talk/defend/explain was mine. The need for silent consideration was the relationships. I found I had much more constructive conversations that way.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who many times thinks people just talk too much and don't listen enough I like the poem and the perspective. There is a lot to be said for silence and in listening to yourself and others.

This hit home. My husband and I got into a terrible argument last night; it was mostly because I was in one of those states where horrible, harmful words that I can't believe I'm uttering fly out of my mouth.

I don't think I interpret this the way some do, as advice to shut up about everything - it seems to be more like being careful and loving about how you speak, whether you are at odds or not.

Rated.

Tijo could you forward this on to my ex-wife? Or was she your inspiration? Seriously, rated for appreciating the differences in gender.

Incandescent-- thanks, I'm hoping to find time to do a follow up that is a little more about communicating and a little less about who's right or wrong. I think I will call it Relationship advise for everybody although Talk to the Penis would get more clicks.

Kathy-- Well I love that you love it. I hope you'll come back for more.

Ariana-- Not that talking isn't needed too. My theory is that the more tools we all have in our tool box the more likely we are to be able to fix the problems. If you think that I have a screw loose I hope you have more than a hammer.

George-- Thanks for getting it. It really isn't about blame but it is about responsibility and ultimately we decide for ourselves what we are going to be responsible for. I used to have a vicious mouth and a psychic like ability to find that sore spot and poke it. I always felt justified because I didn't start it. Then I went overboard in the opposite direction and mitigated too much of what I said. While there are obviously some who still wish I'd just shut up I've finally hit a spot where I'm halfway comfortable but still fine tuning.
If you're feeling bad about the hubby thing read my previous post about grace
http://open.salon.com/blog/tijo/2009/04/08/grace_and_the_atheist-_a_secular_sermon
maybe it will help, if not just scroll up and down my page and look at hot boys that's always cheering.

OE--I tried to but she's not talking to me either.

Well, this is a real discussion starter! I do know that if I'd had the ability to remain "silent" many many years ago I'd have been happier a lot earlier. But sometimes it was so important to get my point across that I'd neglect "listening," and listening is seriously important...! Thanks for a thought-provoking post!