Token

Token
Birthday
December 31
Title
Rex Der Hause
Company
Ministry of Truth
Bio
and you will stop. don't MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!! let it grow This the faith my Father taught me - and my Father in LAW taght my mate. So let it be written. So let it be done.... otherwise..... Hurry along you don't want to be LATE Butt.. Buttt.. I"M not going anywhere.... and NEITHER are YOU oh....sillyme, NO , not late in the sense of your silly temporal sytem which doesn't even allow me to show my true age.. Late as in the LATE MR DENT I men LATE in it's TRUE sence, you know DEAD..... Bit of THREAT actually come to think of it..... silly things to use to try to control a warrior priest, so I forget sometimes that it actually works on some Humans

MY RECENT POSTS

Token's Links

Salon.com
FEBRUARY 9, 2012 3:20AM

Obamacare and Abortion- Freedom of Conscience

Rate: 1 Flag

This Post has been archived

it is viewable on request at:

 

Rat Hockey Catalog

http://open.salon.com/blog/philbert_desanex/2012/03/11/rat_hocky_catalo

Author tags:

politics, belief/religion

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
That they can even contemplate the notion that a Catholic Doctor or Nurse can be forced by the state to commit what is to their conscience murder, and say “Well, they just have to put up with it” shows how far out of touch with reality they are. Such idiocy is why Warriors (spiritual people) usually wind up hanging Lawyers (mental people). Shame really, lawyers are responsible for civilization. They are also responsible for violent revolution when they forget that warriors are basically savages.

And there are actually lawyers making such demands...or suggesting such tactics???? Or is this just your way of creating a straw man so that you can argue against an absurdity...which is the essence of this particular straw man?

Token, no real movement is afoot to force anyone to act the way you described here.
In case you hadn't noticed Frank, there was once a clear cut line between what a lawyer did and what a judge or legislator did. Those positions have mostly taken over by actual lawyers. The "lawyers" I refer to are those who, while perhaps not actual members of the bar, are creatures who torture words into whatever connotation they find convenient, somehow believing that by so doing, they also drag along the denotation for the word-- people like yourself.

As far as: " are "lawyers" (Politicians, judges, legislators) attempting to force doctors and nurses to perform "Reproductive services" (Abortions and contraception) despite their religious scruples", come on, where have you been?

You yourself delight in your ability to make noise and confusion while all the while ignoring the questions posed by your opponent and working toward your own goals, so as a savage, I warn you, I don't feel constrained to listen to your "logic", Either address the actual spirit of this post or be ignored or deleted, as I see fit.
You yourself delight in your ability to make noise and confusion while all the while ignoring the questions posed by your opponent and working toward your own goals, so as a savage, I warn you, I don't feel constrained to listen to your "logic", Either address the actual spirit of this post or be ignored or deleted, as I see fit.

Token, if you want to delete my comments or ignore them, do so; that is your prerogative. But I am addressing the substance and spirit of what you wrote here.

You wrote: That they can even contemplate the notion that a Catholic Doctor or Nurse can be forced by the state to commit what is to their conscience murder, and say “Well, they just have to put up with it” shows how far out of touch with reality they are. Such idiocy is why Warriors (spiritual people) usually wind up hanging Lawyers (mental people). Shame really, lawyers are responsible for civilization. They are also responsible for violent revolution when they forget that warriors are basically savages.

Show me where that is being done. Actually, you can’t…because it is not being done. It is a straw man argument.

I’m just calling that to your attention…and doing it reasonably courteously—and with none of the violence you brought to your arguments.
Frank

The fact that you will not or cannot give proper weight to the priority of most people's realities is precisely what I am talking about. I personally don't believe that either having or performing an abortion necessarily makes you a bad person. But then, I feel the same way about other killings of human beings. I also believe it is no one else's business whether you have or perform abortions, certainly it is not the governments. it is a personal choice.

That said, neither does the government have the authority to demand that if you wish to be a Doctor or Nurse, or provide other Health services, that you must also provide services that you find morally repugnant. How about we require that all health providers provide funds for and perform "Female Circumcision?"-

There is the problem. "Female Circumcision" is against YOUR religion of Secular Humanism. ( Mine as well, but make no mistake, Secular Humanism is your RELIGION) Therefore TO YOU female circumcision is Evil, but abortion is not. So, by your religion, it is barbaric for anyone to insist they have a right not to fund or provide abortion on religious grounds, because, hey, it isn't against YOUR religion,

The larger point is that legislation and laws are only necessary because we are savages. If everyone was truly aware of their relation to the "Circle of Being', the only law necessary would be "Love God (The circle of Being) and do as you will." If everyone truly experienced their relationship to the "Circle of Being" (Godhead?) then they would no more harm each other than they would cut off their nose to spite their face.

This is the realm of spirituality. Once upon a time even lawyers recognized it (One nation, under God- In God we trust) It is not something that today's lawyers, politicians, legislators, or judges generally can experience, because they are taught that it is a delusion as part of their training to be "Blind" to emotion.

What has happened is that instead of being merely "blindfolded" or actually blind in the interest of Justice, and recognizing that sight exists, today's lawyers insist that being blind is the only reality, and that sight is a delusion.

Lawyers think that because they can't fly, there are no such creatures as birds, or mechanisms as airplanes. And then they proceed to dictate laws of the sky.

As for your personal arguments, I really have better things to do than debate how many lawyers can dance on the head of a pinhead. your assertions are as meaningless as the barking of a pit bull, because it is never your intent to communicate and understand, it is always your intent to argue. If you truly can't understand what I'm talking about, then debate with you is as meaningless as theology debate with a pit bull.
Calm down, Token. There is no need for all the insults. I have not sent any your way…and there is no need for you to heave them in my direction. I am responding to a post you made in a public forum…so far, I am the only one responding.

My point has been that there is no one telling any doctor that he must perform abortions…or must prescribe contraception pills… in order to be a doctor.

That is what you were saying when you wrote: That they can even contemplate the notion that a Catholic Doctor or Nurse can be forced by the state to commit what is to their conscience murder…

Let’s just take that…and discuss that. And if we can do it without charges of “pit bulls barking”…so much the better. I prefer calm, reasonable discussion between reasonable, courteous individuals…even between individuals with widely divergent perspectives on these issues. As far as I am concerned, by discussing what you wrote with you...I am paying you respect. We disagree...but that is a part of respect...to disagree and to do so reasonably.

(Gotta take some aged aunts food shopping, probably will be gone until this afternoon.)
I will let you and Frank Duke it out. At my age no one is going to tell me what to do no matter who they are. People have lost their way and suck up the next best idea or thing these days. As far as I can see if someone no matter how he is told someone to believe the sky is falling they would.

There are too many chefs now and not enough cooks.
I want them all out of my kitchen.
HUGGGGGGGGG
Frank

It isn't anger, or frustration, or even any real disrespect meant toward you Frank. Quite frankly and bluntly, you don't try to understand positions, you try to manipulate words. You deliberately misrepresent what is said or meant in order to seek argumentative advantage and who really gives a crap about that? It isn't that I even dislike you Frank, it's that you are most often an annoying pest with an "I know you are but what am I" attitude that is more than anything else like waking up to find Pee Wee Herman on my doorstep.

Does the government currently state that doctors must perform abortions to remain licensed? no they don't. So far, they haven't been able to sneak that one through. Does Obama's regime CONTEMPLATE the desire to so dictate? Does the Pope shit in the woods? Yes, obviously they do. They just mandated that Catholic Hospitals and health care providers provide abortion and contraceptive funding as part of Obamacare. Obviously, Obama and company would like to destroy the separation of church and state so that state (Obama) is without check or balance and can dictate what Obama just knows in his gut is right for all off us, whether we like it or not or acknowledge it or not. Reminds me of you, Frank. I know you love us all to death and just want us to do what's in our own self interest, even if it means your having to make the great sacrifice of micromanaging our lives for us, because we are obviously too stupid to fend for ourselves.

Frank, my point IS that the only way to "debate" your kind of wordbending is with a bullet. Wordbending such as our "Lawyers" are currently engaged in usually results in the bullets flying. And of course, all you wanted was "To be Reasonable".

Try for one iota of "truth", Frank,

Admit that the Current ploy of forcing Catholic Hospitals and charities to fund contraception and abortion as part of their operations despite their conscientious objection, is a pure power play by Obama to bring religion under the "Rule of law" and put the state firmly in control of the church. and we may have a basis of conversation.
Otherwise, please take Pee Wee off my porch.
Linda

Amen, Sister- as to Frank and I "Duking it out?" No, it's more like whether you listen to Pee wee Herman Whine interminably on your porch, or shut the door on him and go back to watching "American Idol"
sorry, I meant "American Idle"
Okay, Token, I see that you are unable to discuss anything without all that name-calling, belittling nonsense, so I’ll bow out. The fact remains that I attempted to discuss this with you rationally and courteously...not manipulating anything; actually using direct quotes from you.

Sorry you were not able to respond in kind.
No Frank, you didn't
As usual, you show up and focus on one phrase like a Pit Bull going after a Beggin Strip, completely ignore the point of the post and any questions to you regarding your position, won't clarify or discuss your position, ignore attempts to find common definitions, and then insist that you've debated. Bark! Frank, Bark! Bark!
Or, perhaps more to your level of "debate", "I know you are, but what am I?"