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ehh....what town in Italy is your family from?

toritto

toritto
Location
tampa bay metro, Florida,
Birthday
September 10
Bio
I was born in year 4 of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius Claudius and raised on 66th Street and 13th Ave. in Brooklyn. And Coney Island, Traveled the world. Married my high school sweetheart and stayed together 40 years. Now a retired old widower crank living in Florida with my cat. Author of "Initial Verses" - a collection of poems on love, loss, poverty and war.

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Salon.com
Editor’s Pick
MAY 15, 2011 5:25PM

War is for Other People

Rate: 24 Flag

sss-2  

I was Regular Army in the '60s at a time when the ranks were filled with draftees most of whom didn't want to be there.

What they gave the Army, instead of  desire for a military career was a connection to the rest of America.

Different backgrounds. Different points of view. They had lives outside the military.  Many in the ranks were well educated, successful with wives, parents and girlfriends who couldn't wait for them to get out and come home.

When drafted they answered the call and served with honor; but they never compromised their view that there was more to life than the military. They were true "citizen soldiers" in the footsteps of Cincinnatus.

In the '50s and '60s every young man had to face the possibility of conscription - and so did their parents.  Those who could afford to go to college got a deferment.  Those who couldn't had to deal with the eventuality that they would receive the dreaded "The President of the United States sends greetings" letter.

 So long as the United States was at peace parents had little to worry about.    Those who fought in WWII and Korea were in their late 40s and early 50s and for a young man a stint in the military was viewed as part of growing up.

Vietnam changed all that.

Conscription could now mean the death of your son.  Conscription makes you think about war.  Conscription is personal.

Those that could stay in college did so.  Those with influential families obtained slots in the reserves and guard units which were not being deployed.  Poor kids got drafted.

The perceived unfairness of conscription and the feeling of many that Vietnam was not worth the death of tens of thousands of young men eventually brought about massive war protest, the dreaded draft lottery and then the abolition of conscription entirely.

With the end of conscription the anti-war movement faded away.  It seemed that people would only get off of their couch to oppose war if they had to fight it.  Once  they were disconnected from war it was no longer their primary concern.

My family has lived in this country for a century and served in every war from WWI to Vietnam.  Today I don't know anyone in the military.  My children, nephews or nieces never faced the draft.  None of my friends have children in the military.  I don't know any kid anxious to join up.   War doesn't affect me or my family or my friends at all.   And there are tens of millions like me.

It seems from the outside that the volunteer army is comprised mainly of those from military families (Daddy was an Admiral) or kids with poor economic prospects back in Flint, Michigan.  Would it surprise anyone to learn that West Virginia suffered the highest rate of casualties per capita in the Vietnam war?  What we now have is akin to a mercenary army, the enabler of empire and permanent war.  It is a military with its own distinct culture.

The military can now be sent anywhere at the direction of the President.  Congress hasn't issued a Declaration of War since FDR.  Now it simply passes a Gulf of Tonkin style resolution and the President does what he likes.  It is the imperial Presidency that now makes war enabled by a volunteer army and the lack of connection between war and the vast majority of Americans.

Today we are in our tenth year of the Afghan war / occupation.  Afghanistan was a non-issue in the last elections.  We see no graphic reports from the battlefield on the 6 O'clock news.  We see no caskets.  No funerals.  No bodies.  It seems to be a nicely sanitized war.  Media propaganda from "in-bed"  journalists.  We will all go to the mall or barbecue this coming Memorial Day weekend.

Now its easy to be a war hawk.  You don't have to worry about your kid.  He won't be drafted, given 4 months training and dropped in Kandahar.  We don't even have to pay a war tax.  Sure there's a war going on but it doesn't affect us.  It doesn't affect me or mine.

 War is for other people.   War is for those who volunteered.

SSG. E-6 Toritto

11/18/63 - 11/17/67

 

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Well done and said. However we have another mercenary army that we all pay highly for and that one is composed of highly paid private forces like Blackwater (now Xe). We all pay great sums for that elite army our poor young men who have little opportunity in this society go and fight and die for pathetic wages and terrible neglect afterward.. Shameful......rated
Up until last year I had the world to lose and watched the news every night. I had a son who was a Blackhawk pilot but last year he died of Cancer so I guess I am no longer connected, but on the other hand....I still feel connected. Everyone of those boys and girls over there in harm's way could be my child and I sometimes cry for all of them.
I have often wondered how much righteous outrage against Vietnam there would have been by those bright young college students had there been no draft and they were not threatened with the possibility of maybe ending up over there.
Torman - my sincerest condolences on the loss of your son.

You were connected to the military and remain connected. Tens of millions have no connection. You are right about Vietnam. The anti-war movement died among college kids AND their parents when conscription was abolished. Ten year wars would not be possible if the draft was still in place. If wars directly affected everyone we would think much more carefully about whether a war was worth it. Thanks for commenting.
This was wonderful Toritto. Congratulations on the EP. Hopefully this will get you more readers that you deserve.
"It seemed that people would only get off of their couch to oppose war if they had to fight it."
What a very interesting statement.Hadn't thought of it that way, but you are right. Thank you sir for the service you gave to our country.
This is so well written Toritto! You have a great message. My cousins served and had their college educations paid for. It worked out well for them, but they didn't serve during war time. I have a 21 year old son, so there have been times I was concerned. Luckily we have enough volunteers....
Congratulations on the EP!!!!!
God bless you for writing this, Sgt. Toritto! It is the very truth of the matter. I could never have said it better myself.

CPT, RA, O-3 Brassawe, 6/7/1969 - 8/7/1973
Good post.
There are also reasons for a professional army in terms of its efficiency, although you are right to worry about the implications for limited government.
As for the appeal of a professionalized force, the more technology advances, other things equal, the more you are drawn to using specialists to use capital intensive forms of warfare. That intensive use of capital is why the United States can exert so much military power with such a small standing force relative to its politcal committments, although there are limits to that, and problems as well.
As you say, the more professionalized a force becomes, the more divorced it becomes from civilian life, since it operates in its own highly efficient universe, until they make a mistake because they are in their own universe, or come to be dangerously contemptuous of civilians, which has happened other places before, like at the end of the Roman Republic.
That was supposed to be checked by the Reserves and Guard, although they are now bot very much integrated into the regular Armed Forces, because of a real problem with a professional army: the expense of individual member training.
The human capital accumulated in a professional Army is very expensive, and when you add on the expense of the capital they are trained to use, then you can't have as many people working, which weakens the Armed Forces potential function as you pointed out as a socializing element for a large portion of the population, as well as a training function for as many people with relatively poor economic opportunities as compared to if there were more people and less capital-machines, and less training per member in terms of human capital embedded in the force, although in combat, such a force would suffer significantly higher casualties.
Outstanding post, it's a shame most people won't get it. Harry's Ghost is right, we are too big for our britches now.

We have become the British Empire and these wars will take us down as a nation. The poor have nothing to lose but it's a real pity the middle class has to go down.
I mean that sincerely, the recession hasn't changed my status all that much but those around me have a lot to lose. They seem not to care about the loss of lives or even their own security, I finally quit writing letters, most in my State are pro war. I'll never understand, it really is slow suicide.
As long as people don't have to sacrifice anything, they have nothing to lose by keeping the status quo. That's our reality.
Well written and achingly true. Thank you.
I made a point similar to this in a recent post. With no personal stake in war, it becomes a spectator sport like watching a football game. It's easier to support war and if we oppose it, we're not affected enough personally to take action.

I would also note that the volunteers seem to come overwhelming from smaller towns that have taken the biggest hits in the modern service economy.

Nicely, artfully argued.
This is wonderfully written. My father was drafted during Vietnam. He spent nearly two years being homeless and working on the docks to get enough money for tuition and books to stay in college. As soon as everything came crashing down and he just could afford the tuition anymore, his parents called the draft board on him. Considering his PTSD and other related health-issues, I have grown up to be fairly disgusted with war and especially the notion of the draft. But then, in working in social services, I've found that now there is a staggering number of suicides and incidents of homelessness in returning military that makes me really wonder... do people who are signing up REALLY know what they're getting themselves into? Or are we still pulling the poorest, under-educated youngsters together to serve blindly.
I'm probably not the first to say that now the decisions are made by people who risk nothing and those that fight the wars don't have any say in it. These decisions are generally made based on a long list of lies. As long as we continue to cheer on the "hawks" that fight one war after another we will continue to support the mass murder of innocent people that are routinely referred to as "collateral damage" if they're mentioned at all. we need to get the psychopaths out of power and reform the bribery system that they refer to as campaign contributions.
Although I agree that there is much in what you say, I have strong doubts that enforced military service would decrease the militaristic adventurism of the government. The people now in control of government are doing many things that are harming huge numbers of citizens and there seems to be a kind of hysterical insanity and paranoid panic throughout the nation permitting all sorts of unconstitutional and generally illegal policies. Real protests are suppressed everywhere and anti-government opinions are frequently treated as treasonous. The government does not represent the people anymore.
Excellent article. I was classified 1A and drew a Lottery number of 27 so I knew I was going. Reported for active duty 1 Oct 1970. Lucked out and got stationed in Germany but half ourt Basic Training class went to Vietnam. I agree there is a real disconnect between the military and civilan world now. The influx of draftees helped to keep the military "honest". I think the biggest resentment today with Vets our age was the treatment given us. The well-off could disparage those serving with self-righteous impunity because they knew they weren't going (It wasn't all, of course, but a vocal few). Many who served were from small towns you never heard of with maybe a factory job to return to. The were lower of on the social mobility ladder but were doing the fighhting for the much better off. What really annoys me is that, rightfully feeling guilty over the treatment of the Vietnam-era vets, this country (as it did during the Gulf War) has gone overboard in treating Vets ver the last 20+ years so much better. It's like the U.S. is trying to buy back its soul. Well, guess what. It can't be done. Ocne the soul is gone, it is gone.
Read and appreciated.
The average age of a soldier in Vietnam was 19. Ridiculous! My father was a lifer and fought in WWII and Korea. I was in the army during Vietnam, but didn't go. My job was to pick up deserters who didn't want to go back, mostly. I never met a bad guy. What fucking idiot would want to die in a war for nothing that rich people, just as in the Civil War, could buy their way out of!
This article is the type that prompts me to ask the question: "Would any arrangement satisfy?"

In the 60's there was a huge anti-draft movement. OK, drafts are not for free societies (it's a temporary form of coerced labor), so we get rid of the draft.

Then, after the military becomes very efficient with an all volunteer force, there is a complaint that the military doesn't provide the same societal representation function as it did when there was a draft and wars can be fought by people who like war (face it, there are people who want to be in the military and fight). And worse, volunteers are accused of being mercenaries for joining and receiving pay for doing so.

There's no winning here. Drafts are bad. Volunteers are bad.

Isn't the real issue that you oppose a war (or wars) more strongly than most Americans who grudgingly support or at least tolerate the wars we are fighting?

But to your point, I am pretty certain that if the Afghanistan War was going far worse in terms of casualties, the public would oppose it, whether they knew people in the military or not.

Lastly, I actually consider it progress that we are able to exert force in ways that has little impact on our society. It means that we can defend ourselves in ways that our adversaries cannot. It means our deterrent is better than theirs.
McGarrett50 - Thanks for reading and commenting.

Yes I probably oppose war more than most but I am not totally opposed to any war. Just the ones we've been fighting during my lifetime.

A war is not worth fighting if the people will not fight it - not support the war if OTHERS fight it. That's too easy. If it's not worth fighting yourself its not worth fighting.

When one's own may fight it then you think much more carefully about whether or not it is worth it. It becomes personal.

As far as calling the military "mercenary" it seems quite true that most young people who join up have little in the way of choices - it not (a) should I go to Harvard or (b) join the Army.

I jointed in 1963 because I was 21, wanted to stop relying on my relativly poor family and a sick Dad for support and saw no other way. My job didn't pay enough for me to live on my own, Not much has changed.

Why don't we just push aside the curtain and look at the facts.

Are the Hessians still available?

Thanks again for the comment.
I served as a medical corpsman from 31 May 1967 to 31 May 1968 at the 12th USAF Hospital in Cam Ranh Bay. So I saw the human face of war. It has been hard coming to terms with that year even four decades after having served in country.
I attend a group in Tallmadge, Ohio called the Warriors Journey Home. It's mostly Vietnam vets like me and their family members who had to deal with the loss of a family member. And there are also former soldiers and family members from the current wars being waged in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are even veterans of the Second World War and the Korean War who attend.
It's helped me great deal to finally have some closure with my war.
So there are good things that have come out of the war. Some of the Vietnam vets in the group went to Vietnam last October on a peace and healing journey. I can see how it has helped the old grunts to revisit old battle sights, talk with their former enemies and meet with the Vietnamese people who suffered so much. The reaction from all the Vietnamese they encountered during the trip was basically: it's over, we have had to move on, and it's time for you Americans to move on with your lives. The Americans were welcomed with open arms wherever they visited, and they also buried personal artifacts of soldiers wounded or killed in Vietnam.
I just wanted to share this with all of you, because it has made a great difference in my life. There is also a homeless shelter called Freedom House affliated with the WJH near where I live in Stow, Ohio. And the daughter of a homeless veteran, Cassie Schumacher, has a website called www.wheels4change.org. She is a bicycle racer and through her competitive races she raises funds for the group and a new homeless shelter being built this summer near the VA clinic in Akron, Ohio. It's for a good cause. Summa Health Care and wheels4change are raising money for a mediation room in the new shelter. Ground breaks on June 22nd of this year.
All too true toritto. You got me thinking that with teh end of the draft, maybe there's less exposure to folks from other walks of life. I wonder if that's a factor in the increasing political polarization.
during the course of my service in the 60's, the john wayne version of history was scoured off, and i started reading books not approved by the texas board of education.

since then i have lost hope for america. it will continue on its path to destruction, much as rome did, but rather quicker. the character of modern america you have outlined is uncannily like that earlier empire.