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Torman

Torman
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Doniphan, Missouri, USA
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I am a simple man who has lived a simple life for sixty years. I have not dined with movie stars nor Kings and Queens. I have not walked the halls of power, nor have I been a mover and a shaker. I have, however, been a soldier, a tinker, a jack of all trades. I have raised five children....I have been loved and I have loved. I do not see grand designs nor do I chase afer them. Instead, I listen to the heartbeat of the land and I rejoice in a bird's song in the morning. Do not come here seeking answers for I have none. I do have questions which I will ask you constantly though. I do not believe in aruging so Politics will not be discussed in my blog. I do not care what your personal beliefs are for you are free to believe as you will...please allow me to do likewise. I have never been rich, but I have always been poor. Being poor however has never stopped me from feeling rich. I feel rich because I have the love of a good woman. Melinda completes me. She gives me the peace of mind and soul required to write about life without regrets and without envy of those who might have more. She is my world. Almosta Ranch is our heaven and we are happiy. This is what I want to share with you in this blog.

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OCTOBER 27, 2009 12:12PM

John F. Kennedy and Barak Obama: Camelot found Again?

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Yesterday I wrote an innocuous little entry reminiscing upon the year 1962.  I nattered on about the memories of a thirteen year old kid during that time and was fairly well received.

However one comment that was left at the end of that post stopped me cold.  Jeff Howe simply wrote:

"And then, in 1963 Kennedy was shot and EVERYTHING changed..."
This simple sentence was so full of loss and sadness and so very powerful in the way it summed up the experiences of an entire generation of young people who, were for the first time, involved in the Democratic process of this country.
No other candidate before Kennedy had so actively sought out the support of young college students and recently graduated young professionals and no other candidate before or after had ever connected with the youth as John Kennedy did. 
How could he not connect. Kennedy was young, handsome and a war hero. He was married to a beautiful young woman and, even though he came from a rich and powerful family, Kennedy was a liberal who believed in helping the less fortunate.
For the first time in their lives these young people started to believe that they could make a difference in the world. The BELIEVED that the President was THEIR president and that they were on the cusp of a Great New Era in this country. 
Camelot....
Then, on a warm November day on a non-descript street in downtown Dallas, Texas that dream died. Three bullets brought down Camelot and there would be no quest for the Holy Grail.
John Kennedy and the Dream that was his Presidency died that day but so did a lot of dreams. Dreams held by hundreds of thousands of a young generation who had listened raptly as he said:
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what YOU can do for your Country."
That one sentence changed so many lives. But the voice was stilled and the dream went silent.
Until 2009 and the election of Barak Obama.  Here was the voice again; in a different man, but the voice was there as was the dream.  I think that when that lost generation, whose Camelot had been destroyed so long ago, heard Obama speak, they were reawakened.  They were reminded of that long ago time when they dared to believe.
 I understand this...I may not fully agree with it, but I certainly understand why so many of my generation rightfully joined Barak Obama's campaign.  They could see their dream again and I applaud anyone for trying to regain a dream.
John Kennedy and Barak Obama....Two men and one dream. While one was cut down before his dream could be realized, I do hope the other one gets his full measure of time to either succeed or fail.  In truth I really hope that Obama lives up to the Dream and that everything happens just as those of my generation hope that it happens.  I am not convinced.
As Jeff said: "Everything changed."
Well it did for some and for some it didn't change. You see I too listened to Kennedy as she made that famous speech. I too was moved, four years later to do what my dead President had extolled me to do and "Ask what I can do for my country."
Being poor and uneducated, I had one option to help my country....I answered its call and went to war. 
So you see, there are two sides to every speech. A speech can have far reaching results...like ripples in a pond. 
For the sake of this country I hope those young liberals who loved Kennedy, find fulfillment in Obama and the realization of their dream that had been so long deferred.
So you see, Jeff Howe  said so much with his simple, one sentence, comment. He spoke of the longing of a generation who had lost their hero and I could hear that in his words. 
For me, Kennedy's death did not change anything because I was destined and doomed to walk the path I did. But, for Jeff and others like him, I pray that Mr. Obama proves to be the answer because even if I am conservative, I am American first and I want Obama to succeed and make this country something special again.
I really hope he can do it.
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A bump for the Dream....
Inspiring yes, but I hope Barack gets more done than Kennedy. I loved the guy, but it was LBJ who passed the groundbreaking legislation.
R
"EVERYTHING changed" They absolutey did change. Politics has gotten dirtier and the voters have gotten dumber.

I have to disagree with including Obama with Kennedy. Kennedy came from a political family and was well versed on the issues of the time and had was much more equipped to handle the presidency.

Obama is a big believer in the nanny state and has proven that his soaring rhetoric is meaningless.
John, to be fair, Kennedy's time was cut short by a bullet and yes, LBJ went to great lengths to carry out Kennedy's programs which sadly included intervention in Vietnam.

Blackflon....Of course there are differences between the two men. I compared them in the context of both being young, intellegent, and chrismatic. It is easy to find differences but I wanted to look at what it was in the one that spoke the followers of the other.
Torman, I salute you not only for your service then, but for your continued service now--service to the idea that we're all in this together and, whatever our political views, we will succeed or fail together.

OS, I give you Torman. Hear, hear!
Time will tell whether Obama's inspiration has so moved a generation. I, a child of the 60's, retain my hope. ~R~
Obama and Kennedy share that rare ability to unite people who want to right a few wrongs. Like it's wrong to let people become homeless because they get sick.

I was too young when Kennedy died to understand how momentous his election was. But I vividly recall how painful his death was.

And I too, hope for Obama's success. I believe the tide is turning and those who spit on his election are beginning to speak a tad softer at least. Or maybe it's just that I put on these blinders.
Kennedy's message and hope reached this side of the pond too and even here, we all remember the day the world lost a potential great leader.

As many have noted, like it or not, Obama is being noticed and supported in other parts of the world.

Only time will tell...but I still believe in dreams becoming reality.
me too Torman.

I'm watching this guy and he's like a whirling dervish...not spinning as fast as some would like but he's getting the job done, slowly, surely. I'm pleased with him overall. not thrilled sometimes... but I'm glad he's fulfilling his vision and not mine because I'm not a good politician. (FAILURE - plays well with others). I elected him, not me. He knows how to play the game. I'm astonished at how adept his team is at playing politics or maybe it's that the other side is playing a piss poor game.

There are some blacks who say he's a "deadman walking". I can't blame anyone for being afraid for him and his family. *I'm* afraid for him. But I believe he's smart enough to stay alive AND be reelected next time around. I think he's going to be a historically excellent president. He's well on his way....
Amen, Torman . . . hear, hear.
AHP....Thank you sir, for those kind words. We are indeed, all in this together and I hope the boat continues to float.

Chuck...I know what you mean, in spite of evreything I have been through from the 60's on.....I retain my hope.

skeletnwnm.....I do not know what the future brings, whether he will get a second term or not. A lot depends on what he and his party does with this term. The Dems have the power now and they need to use it to make their agenda a reality intead of worrying about the minority Republicans. If not now....when?

Linda...Like you, I still believe in dreams. Sometimes I can't remember WHY I beleive but I do believe.

NofrillsDevilMonkey....I am more conserned to see him accomplish something in the first term. If he doesn't do it then, he probably won't get a second term. People need to see results.
Amen to the dream. I would love to see change. Obama's first term will be spent trying to undo most of the damage done in last eight years. that will effect his ability to get reelected. If he does get reelected, then we may see some serious change, but Washington is a complicated and corrupt atmosphere. I have the audacity to hope for the best.
I wish more conservatives were more like you, who want this country to succeed regardless of who's president. As much as I disliked Bush, I have never wanted anything but the best for this country!
And once again, we can't except our dreams to be fulfilled by a President. We have to work for them and chase them down. What can we do for our country? Well, for most of us on OS, we can write.

Great post!
So long as the US continues to treat Indigenous people as though they are sub-human the US will remain as it has been for the last 517 years... a place of abject misery, horror and genocide. The acts committed against the Indigenous People of the US are not only EQUAL to those of a man by the name of Adolph Hitler but in point of fact SURPASS the horrors of Concentration Camps such as Auschwitz.

The United States will NOT be "special" so long as the United States continues to flatly refuse to sign the UN Treaty on the Rights of Indigenous people.
When I saw Mr. Obama deliver the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, I turned to the people watching it with me, mostly young people, and told them, "Watch out-- here's the next Jack or Bobby Kennedy."

I think the comparisons with JFK are apt. Both were either fiercely loved or roundly despised. Both inspired great hope and renewed dedication to the country, and both were inexperienced enough in the truth and ways of Washington that they caused/are causing letdown and disillusionment.

I'm with you-- I wish Mr. Obama well for the sake of the nation we love.
Fantastic thoughts, Torman. "And then everything changed". I agree. And, I can't help but think back just a few months. That precise sentence very aptly describes my thoughts upon learning that Obama had won.
"And then everything changed".
Thanks.
Michael...I agree, we must have hope. I do not hold with any adminsration hiding behind the old saw that it takes four years to correct the mistakes of the fomer adminstration. Dems and Republicans alike do this and to me it is a sign of weakness. He has an absolute majority and he has the power of the veto. Now, in a few bold moves, he can right whatever precived wrong he wants to while his approval rate is high. But as you say...Washington is a corrupt place and both dems and Reps are reduced to playing political games rather than righting wrongs. But I do hope he is different than the others.

Owl...Thank you and maybe our "amens" will be answered this time.

Scanner....Thank you. I have heard it said that a Conservative is a man without a heart while a liberal is a man without a brain. I think we can be either Conservative or Liberal and still possess both these organs as long as we love our country more than we love our labels.

Gwendolyn....You are right. What we need is leadership that is able to focus the enegeries of the people for good and not the status quo. I hope that is what we have today.

MrsRaptor....Thank you for your visit here to my blog. What you speak of is an entirely different set of problems and ones which I have strong feelings about. As for this nation being a place of abject misery, horror and genocide, I have to respectfully disagree but as I said, the question and history of the Indian population is one I fully intend to explore in another entry....thank you again for reading.

Ken...Thank you my friend. I watched the same speech and inspite of my deep scars and my cycinism from years of disappointment, I dared to feel a thrill of expectation as I listened to his words. I found myself holding my breath and wondering....could this be the man? I am still wondering and I am still hoping. I doubt whether few remember Rep Barbara Jordan from Texas, but listening to Obama for the first time reminded me of her and her powerful voice and message.
"...even if I am conservative, I am American first..."

Great post - thank you!
I think it is much to premature to make the comparisson between the two. It is never too soon to hope for the best for our nation.
Walter...sorry I missed you with my last reply. Yes, it was like a huge door swingng open wasn't it. At that moment you just know that nothing will ever again be as it was and the future was before us to explore.

Bob....Thank you, it is the one truth I try to live by...I am an American first, other labels follow at a distance.

Dan...The comparison comes with their effect upon others, not what they may or may not accomplish in their terms of office. One never got the chance to finish a term and the other has just begun. Time will be the final arbiter of all things.
I sat on a park bench the other day with my father-in-law and my 13 yr. old daughter. We were discussing the major news stories of our lives. It is interesting how Pearl Harbor was the defining moment for one generation, the Kennedy assassination for another, and 9/11 for a third. I can only hope that 9/11, as horrible as it was, is the worst it gets in this era...
Torman, you worded it perfectly. I am also a conservative, but an American first, and I hope Obama succeeds, because for him to fail is for America to fail. I have my doubts and worries, but I have to believe that all of us Americans want this country to succeed.

Very thoughtful post.

So true, Jeff Howe. My son was about the same age on 9-11 as I was when Martin Luther King Jr. and Bobby Kennedy were killed. Eleven seems too young for a defining moment in one's life, but we don't get to pick.
Jeff...Wouldn't it be nice if just one generation came along who could look back on a positive occourance happening that marked the watershed of their generation? Just once I would like to see us be able to mark time with something that did not entail death and dying.

Kyle.....It is just my opinon, but I believe it is time for us to stop being Republican, Democrat, Conservative or Liberal first and instead be Americans first...all of us....all over the country. I wonder what we could achieve with that sort of labeling.
It is just my opinon, but I believe it is time for us to stop being Republican, Democrat, Conservative or Liberal first and instead be Americans first...all of us....all over the country. I wonder what we could achieve with that sort of labeling.

It boggles the mind to think what could be accomplished! Count me in.
Torman, thank you soooo much for saying
...' I may be conservative but I am an American first'.! Whew! Like you I am in my sixth decade and cannot recall a partisanship that is so intense as to cause one to feel buried. Kennedy and Obama were/are able to convey a sense of affirmation: I see you...
Suddenly one becomes politically visible and perhaps change can occur. I am more conservative as I grow older and am a bit more comfortable with incremental change than I was in my younger years...mainly because I do understand that meaningful change does take time. I pray and hope for our representatives to remember that we are all Americans first and we have some systems that are seriously frayed.
I really hope so too. America is collapsing around us and that is never a good thing. I like what you say allot.
I don't usually comment on blogs having political messages, but I gotta say, not all Republicans are nutcases, just as all Democrats aren't either. We are all of one country and should be able to find the middle, something that takes care of people, takes care of us.

The similarities are as you wrote, and it remains to be seen how history will call it. I sure won't.
Patie....In times of crisis, it always comes down to not what the leaders do, but how those they lead react. It is up to Americans to save or destory America.

Lunchlady2....I think, in order to save this country everyone is going to have to do a lot more listening and less talking.

Sheila...as you well know, I shy away from political stuff. I did this story as a study of two different men and how they effected two generations. Yes, history will be our judge, as it always is but for my part, I want to shed the labels and do what I can to make sure we are still around for History to judge.
Very good post Torman. Obama is no JFK, but there are similarities, as you point out. Politics aside, it's also nice to see a couple of parents with young kids in the White House.

Although one does lament the fact that Billy Carter is no longer around to piss on the White House.....Billy Beer wasn't too bad though.
The one commonality between JFK and Barack Obama, as you so eloquently pointed out, is/was in their ability to motivate and inspire others.

Whether or not our president goes down in history as an effective leader is yet to be determined, but I agree that at root we are all first and foremost Americans. The division in this country is disappointing. Is unity too much to ask?
Many interesting comments from many folks on this, Torman. I feel compelled to add to several of the discussions that seem to be ongoing.

But I guess I'll just make a couple of comments and hope that you, at least, can connect them to the threads that existed before.

My memories of the Kennedy assassination are vague. He was killed four days before my fourth birthday. My family did not own a TV set in those days so I had never seen him as so many others had. My mother and father and I spent the next several days at our neighbor's home. They had a TV set and my parents watched the news coverage. I didn't understand what was happening. All I knew was that I could play with the neighbor boy's cool toys. I wish I could honestly say that I remember more than I do, but I suspect that most of my "memories" are really just film clips that I've seen so many times that I've convinced myself I saw them when they happened.

I feel somewhat like skeletnwmn. I remember a lot of pain when Kennedy died, but I don't remember anything about him specifically.

So I can't say that things changed for me. And, if it is true (and I have no reason to think it is not) that Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination and September 11 were the defining moments of generations, I wonder what my defining moment is. In truth, there were many big moments when I was growing up -- men walking on the moon, a president resigning in disgrace, Americans being held hostage in an embassy in Iran for more than a year. Some charismatic leaders were judged to be successes, some were judged to be failures.

I don't know if one can call Lyndon Johnson a charismatic leader, but one of the main reasons he got things done legislatively was because of his lengthy career in the Senate and the years when he was its majority leader. He knew how to twist arms and apply what was known as the "Johnson treatment." Kennedy may have inspired voters, but he lacked LBJ's political instincts when it came to getting results from Democratic lawmakers. In that regard, I believe that Obama resembles Kennedy. He has enough votes in his own party to push through anything he wants, but he gives too much away in a futile attempt to appease people who simply cannot be appeased. Maybe there are voters who like the inclusive approach, but that is idealist thinking, and idealism isn't practical in a political world. I suspect that there are some Democrats in Congress who see it as a sign of weakness, which isn't good for a president.

Well, we shall see what happens between now and 2012. Obama and the Democrats will be trying to buck an historical trend in 2010. Voters almost always vote against the party in power in the midterm elections, which means Obama is likely to lose his filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. That will give Obama's opponents the means to kill any Democrat bill that comes before it. Political scientists say voter attitudes tend to harden about six months before an election, which means Obama has until around the beginning of May to produce clear evidence that the economy, which he was elected to do something about, is turning around.

Yes, the times, they are a-changing. But Obama's window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
RW....I agree, there are of course differences between the two men but what similarities there are, are striking. Oh man, who can forget Billy and the touch of class he lent the White House. While watching a news clip of one of Billy's misadventures, I once told my brother: "You see that? YOU are the reason I don't run for President. I don't want to be like Jimmy and have to explain your ass to the country!"
He did not see the humor in that...wonder why?

Skye...Sadly, the very thing that unites us...Our adherence to a Representative Democracy...is the very thing that drives a wedge between us. We seem bent on debating a thing to death instead of taking action. We have become a people obsessed with being RIGHT and the other guy being WRONG.

David....Welcome to my blog. It is never too late to share your thoughts on a subject in here and your thoughts are welcome.

Each of us has our own, personal defining moment. My own came at the age of nineteen, standing in the middle of the ruined and battle scarred city of Hue, in the Republic of South Vietnam.

You are right, there never was two men more different that Kennedy and LBJ. Kennedy was the blue-blood son of Eastern wealth and power who had a strong Idealistic view of what America needed, while Johnson was a product of the rough and tumble world of Texas politics, the prototypical arm-twister, mover and shaker in the dirty world of Washington politics. I am convinced that Kennedy chose him as a running mate for just that reason: He could get things done in Congress.
Obama, on the other hand, does not have that strong a character as his #2. What Obama should be doing, while he has the majority and the popularity in the polls is pushing through the legislation he feels the country needs. FDR did this with his new deal and even though half the laws he enacted for that New Deal were repealed within a few years as unconstitutional, he at least got the country moving in a more progressive direction. Obama's inaction does not serve him well.
It is like I have said all along, I think it is time for us to shed a lot of the labels we have clung to over the years and act in the name of the one label that counts: We are Americans. Thank you for your comment.