Cartoon sent to me by Sunil Adam for this post...
It is sad to read about my fellow citizens here in the US who do not understand the cultures of the East. It is sad when we, who have immigrated here from the East have joyfully taken on every cultural challenge in order to melt in the pot, we chose of our own free will. We learned to get comfortable in pants and say “hello” and to shake hands instead of wearing our sarees and salwar kameez and bowing deep to say “Namaste”. We did not feel like we were turning our backs upon some thousand years of culture. My father would say “When in Rome do as the Romans do” and we have lived the saying. To respect another’s belief and customs does not belittle the self ....but strengthens both. Only those who are unsteady in their values would be churlish enough to go visiting other cultures and not be willing to absorb as much as they can from them and in the process be disrespectful. It is indeed a pleasure to know that my President, who has lived in the East for a bit and has family there respects us and our sisters and brothers back home. Lighten up folks and be proud that we have a leader who has been around the world in the true sense!
Sunil Adam is Editor of The Indian American, News India Times and Desi Talk. His cartoon characters are based upon two influential experts on international affairs, George F. Kennan, a US diplomat who came up with the policy of containment, and Hedley Bull, a British academic and father of realist school of international politics. He has been a guest blogger on Huffington Post and now here, on my blog site.
Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) wrote in “The Ballad of East and West”
“Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!
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Thanks to you and Sunil for this. Well done.
R
Ramadi, you speak like a true woman of the world (or should I say 'citizen' of the world, mind you I did not say Indian, for I believe, in the end all good people, responsible people, mothers, brothers, leaders in the world are really the same really - they use their intelligence and skills to be and stay humane). I also felt proud when you said "my President" for the US President.
Somehow, I tend to think it takes a lot of courage and confidence to adopt the "new/alien (in American lingo)" in one's own mind and you did that. Good, you rock. Stay well.
R~
Thanks for the regular visit I appreciate your comments.
We did not get to make much of the news in Jordan as it is commonplace to bow. Seems to have .gone down big in the States.
RG
Thank you too for your kind words for my grief.
Did you get to read the whole ballad by Kipling?
"But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!"
True strength shall show up in the right place at the right time and there is a venue for that always on the world stage.
President Obama isn't moving to Japan.
Bowing to the leader of another nations, even a symbolic leader, is a sign of obeisance.
Bowing to the emperor of Japan is a symbolic gesture that the Emperor is your superior.
Meetings between heads of State, are supposed to be meetings between equals. It's great that President Obama shows respect, and treats other leaders as equals, but it's not OK to bow.
It's not a handshake, it's not adhering to local custom, because heads of State do not show obeisance to other heads of State.
You interpret it as you wish Dan and good for you and more strength to you. In the meantime the work of diplomats and negotiators is not much furthered by your line of reasoning. Leadership comes from a place of true strength not the false premise of greetings.
Under Japan's present constitution, the Emperor is the "symbol of the state and the unity of the people," and is a ceremonial figurehead. On the other hand President Obama is the elected head of his country. The emperor is your superior if you take him as such otherwise not. That goes for everyone in this world. One chooses ones own superior , one's own guru and no title guarantees that in the modern world of 2009.
Wake up!
http://c2.api.ning.com/files/FM0VC7z0FHsKgTrL6S6XafF-79*hpAF29FFgYxMpho6bahwIA3bQVOuMcjTh6271uCRyEeOgXTCyA*lpKYglpBGOVmRePCR*/BushKissingSaudiPrince.jpg
...oh...and "Namaste"....
Believe you me there are many in the EAst too who are ready and waiting to pick up arms about the issue. Apparently saying namaste or prostration shows a servile attitude. Servility is in one's head completely. When i work for the university i am servant to the administartion and servant to my stduents and their needs. Does that make me cringe if I bow to a Korean or japanese students in return to their bow or bow to a Japanese scientist who comes to give a seminar. does the bow take away from me my education, my wisdom and my strength? If i am invited to india for a talk and I say a namste in greeting to the students do I immediately become a lesser human?
It is amusing to see such lack of self confidence!
namaste indeed!
This November my friend's daughter gets married in kolkata and i have created a chora for her as the Kobiyals of yesteryears in Bengal would do. They were so enthralled . My good friend said tongue in cheek "Trust an ex-patriot to hold on to the traditions that we have left far behind!" I had a good hard laugh! Thanks though.
The conservatives are really grasping at straws these days. It's embarrassing to watch.
Time has winks and butterfly wings.
Folk travel avian to avoid the big Elk,
and bumpy pot holes on I-270 North.
In '93 I bought Indian brocade scarfs.
What a deal. It was post Earthquake.
I still have so many. They are Gifts.
Ya want a dozen for Thanksgiving?
I have India magazines I saved.
I have a Traveler's brochures.
Southwest of Delhi is Jaipur.
Madras is India's paradise.
I was invited but time flew.
Mark Twain loved India,
and wrote:` India as far
as (he) I can judge:`
Nothing has been undone.
Twain mentions India is the most extraordinary country under the sun. Nothing seems to have been forgotten. (Nothing forgotten?)
Nothing seems overlooked.
Rudyard Kipling saw opal.
Dawn glittered diamonds,
and sparking dust flashes,
sparks of sands, sunsets,
dawn glittering glories,
and heaps of amethyst.
Mist. Sunshine. Glory.
I saved magazines etc.,
I should view photos.
Earthquakes are sad.
Marigolds are gold.
Sunflowers
follows Sun
the mustard
as bright as:`
Huh?
Sundarbans?
That's from filmmaker Mynul Hudo. The Tale Of SunDarbans.
Huh?
It's a mangrove.
It's the biggest mangrove forrest in the world located in the South-western coastal are of Bangladesh. Birds, animals, lush vegetation, numerous species, and the FILM notes it's a repository of biodiversity.
off-topic?
I pop off.
I'm just recalling the film ref:`
The American Conservation Film Festival.
On Nov 5th, (the day Frank Kovac died.):`
until Nov 8th, (I knew Frank was napping!)
(I wonder? Frank sips mead with Sarah, hi)
The National Conservation Center helps ...
Well. Politicians seem to be inured. pig flue?
Politico's plunder and ruin natural resources.
Karen Pouye did a Pirate Film.
What will happen if Pirates plunder?
Pirate Politico Plunder Earth treasures.
Thanks.
apology if I forget who/what I comment.
Today is a Sunny Day. Blue and grey sky.
You are making lapidary post for reader.
It's too busy for just lain doomsday news.
Beauty.
Hope.
We are 21st century dinosaurs marching.
Sing *marching* over-over again to beat.
Beat?
March and stomping a flat barren Earth.
Hope.
Metanoia.
It's to change.
Fix by not plunder.
Thanks. Be aware.
Ya alarm teaching.
Folk need to listen.
How can we listen?
As if the world's passionate,
better concerned real citizens,
One's who petition, get shunned.
I Hope Ya don't trip and skin shin.
flowers bloom then.
My Mind went blank.
Maybe visit a lawyer.
Study Mandarin 101.
Wear a sari gold kilt.
Get my mug shot too.
I best go back to farm.
This may be 101- Bah.
Ba Ba Nam, Ba Ba woo.
No got a bottle of brew.
Then flash my gold tooth.
AMERICANS BOW TO NO ONE
Sorry.
Monte
Great post.
Your father is right. R
The level of bowing Zuma usually shows the heart. When we prostrate ourselves at our parent's feet: the unwilling will just somehow bend and touch, the loving will bend low and touch and feet and then touch their head as blessings, the over zealous will actually lie flat of the ground grasp the feet. The parents always knows who amongst their children are not afraid of showing their love and respect and who among them is too conscious of their present position, prestige, lack respect, dislike the custom,or even dislike them or have issues through the simple gesture of prostration. The thing is, if you dont know you dont know because you have not been in the culture and you dont know. No one can fault you for that. But the one "who knows he knows he knows ." He who has lived in the EAST would know it at once . Would know how a simple gesture sets the tone right and gets people feeling happy and gets the job done as efficiently as possible. The President does not have months to negotiate and deal he has minutes and hours. I dont care how bad he looks , he certainly and sure made the elder feel happy and that is what counts in the end. Looks are superficial and may or not please .....those are details. Symbolism is very important an d it is up to citizens to be responsible to take the strength from a symbol or weakness. I am proud to make out that the President has certainly been around and knows.
Thank you Prof and John. I have always lived by my father's saying. He was an Army doctor who had to live all over India in his postings and dragged us along everywhere as well as did a stint in Vietnam (collab with US) in 1959-60. I was with him always and saw how loved and venerated he was and he lived by the credo. He put us in Convent schools and never ever had any problems with treating the sisters (those days they were allowed to see patients outside the army) and never ever worried that his kids would be converted or negatively impacted. He never filled us with fears and bogus worries. You bet he right!
Only the weak think the equals dont meet on equal terms when there is a bow involved.
Utter bullshit, and you've obviously never been involved in these types of exchanges. The first person to bow is acknowledging the superior position of the other.
People tried make a big deal out of Michelle touching the Queen of England. There's nothing in protocol that prevents this. It's a meeting between equals. Same with holding hands is the Middle East, it's a sign of friendship.
If Obama wants to great the President of France with a kiss on the cheeks, fine. That's a normal cultural exchange between equals.
Bowing is not. President Clinton received a large amount of criticism for his "bow" as well, and that "bow" was barely a nod of the head toward the Emperor with perhaps a very slight bend at the waist.
President Obama's was a complete bow of submission, while shaking hands, which also breaks protocol.
what makes you believe that a handshake represents meeting of equals?
Because it is. The history behind the handshake is that it shows one is not a danger, because you've extended your fighting arm as a sign of friendship, the other person has to accept with the same arm. It means both cannot easily fight.
A bow is, by design and history, one of submission to place you into a position of powerlessness against the person you are meeting.
Who came up with that one?Why is the hand not an appendage that might have touched parts of the body that others consider unclean? In fact touching of any sort is actually far worse than a bow from distance. It still does not make the handshake incorrect.
All cultural greetings have meaning behind them. Should President Obama kowtow the leader of China if they still kept this from of greeting?
If two equals wish to bow at the same time to one another, that's a different cultural meaning, but that's not what happened here.
No President should engage in greetings that show submission.
It is simply one way of greeting and is a cultural signature of the West. Thus the collective gasp of the British when First lady Michelle touched Q Elizabeth was just as inane.
No, the gasp was from uneducated people reacting to the First Lady taking the Queen's arm. This type of touching is very rare in this type of encounter, but there is nothing culturally wrong with it, nor does in violate protocol.
The First Lady didn't engage in an activity that showed submission. She engaged in an activitiy that showed warmth and friendship.
You interpret it as you wish Dan and good for you and more strength to you. In the meantime the work of diplomats and negotiators is not much furthered by your line of reasoning.
It's not my interpretation, it's the interpretation of diplomats and protocol officers. It make their jobs much harder. In Japan the bow was not taken as a sign of friendship, it was taken as a sign of weakness, and culturally it puts the Japanese on edge because they don't want a weak appearing US President.
The Chinese will interpret the gesture as one of weakness as well, and negoiations with them will be greatly harmed. These aren't small matters. Things that may appear to Americans to be a small event can have dangerous reprecussions around the World.
This is one of them. It hampers US efforts to get China to aid in North Korean nuclear disarmament, it makes Japan and South Korea nervous.
Remember when President Bush said, "Of course we'd come to Tawain's aid" if attacked by China? Huge, huge mistake, throwing 30 years of American foreign policy out the window because of an off the cuff remark.
These things matter. While I'm sure President Obama didn't mean to appear submissive, in that it wasn't his intent. He likely meant it as a sign of respect and friendship, that is not how the action will be interpreted by those that matter.
The Cuban Missile crisis started because of little mistakes President Kennedy made in meeting Krushchev, that conveyed weakness to the Soviet mindset.
The closest we've come to outright nuclear war was caused by issues such as this. There are ramifications.
Leadership comes from a place of true strength not the false premise of greetings.
No, leadership comes from leading. Leading requires and understanding by your team of how your actions will be intrepreted, something that DID NOT happen here.
The bow was not vetted by protocol, it should have neven taken place, and it's not a sign of leadership, it's the opposite. It's a sign that President Obama thinks that his person matters more in these engagments that history. That's poor reasoning.
Under Japan's present constitution, the Emperor is the "symbol of the state and the unity of the people," and is a ceremonial figurehead. On the other hand President Obama is the elected head of his country. The emperor is your superior if you take him as such otherwise not.
The President of the United States should not engage in greetings that show the emperor to be his superior. You keep trying to argue around this fundmental issue. The bow means submission.
If President Obama did not know this, he was ignorant. If he did, why engage in the bow? What exactly did he wish to acheive from the bow?
One would hope the US President was not ignorant of the importance of such acts. Would he rub the head of a Hmong child? Nothing wrong with that in many cultures, but horribly offensive to the Hmong.
In dipolmatic settings you have to be aware of how gestures will be taken, because your intent really doesn't matter that much.
That goes for everyone in this world. One chooses ones own superior , one's own guru and no title guarantees that in the modern world of 2009.
And by bowing, it sent a signal to the World that the President of the United States chose the Emperor of Japan as his superior.
We are talking about a Diplomatic World where, who enters a room first, and placement of flags, plates and books, location of windows, is important. One where days will be spent ensuring the cultural sensitivites of all parties are acknowledged. It's this mine field of potential gestural gaffes, President Obama has now bowed twice to royalty.
Wake up!
Instead of reflexively defending President Obama, perhaps you should learn a brief amount about the history of the dipolmatic corp and protocol. You then would not be so cavalier.
The symbolism of power of today is science, technology and knowledge and economy. The president in his wisdom chose to do what he did knowing full well that his country has the world well versed in her power and prestige yet also well versed in her blustery show of that power in the past 8 years. Repairs need to be made and bridges need to be built because we have squandered our strength in a false show of power. We teeter dangerously where economy is concerned.
Respectfully denying you your perspective, I remain, in my own blog, absolutely cavalier (thank you!) in knowing the President did no wrong and actually furthered our cause and interests.I am from the East and so will not argue with you about importance of gestures. All I will say is You just do not understand us. But that is okay, because thankfully my President understands.
You are allowed your view. Thank you fr your re-visit and your respectful opinions. I appreciate it.
Zuma, thank you for your return and understanding.
The Japanese bow is a symbol of respect. Consequently, not bowing is a sign of disrespect. I more or less agree with the arguments you have presented in this article. I think the main problem had to do with how deep the bow was, which does have some significance.
I would like to add the following excerpt from Wikipedia that explains it better:
Bowing (o)jigi (お辞儀, おじぎ), (o-)rei (お礼), is probably the feature of Japanese etiquette that is best-known outside Japan. Bowing is considered extremely important in Japan, so much so that, although children normally begin learning how to bow from a very young age, companies commonly provide training to their employees in how to execute bows correctly.
Basic bows are performed with the back straight and the hands at the sides (boys and men) or clasped in the lap (girls and women), and with the eyes down. Bows originate at the waist. Generally, the longer and deeper the bow, the stronger the emotion and the respect expressed.
Bows can be generally divided into three main types: informal, formal, and very formal. Informal bows are made at about a fifteen degree angle or just tilt over one's head to the front, and more formal bows at about thirty degrees. Very formal bows are deeper.
The etiquette surrounding bowing, including the length and depth of bow, and the appropriate response, is exceedingly complex. For example, if the other person maintains his or her bow for longer than expected (generally about two or three seconds), it is polite to bow again, upon which one may receive another bow in return. This often leads to a long exchange of progressively lighter bows.
Generally speaking, an inferior bows longer, more deeply and more frequently than a superior. A superior addressing an inferior will generally only nod the head slightly, while some superiors may not bow at all and an inferior will bend forward slightly from the waist.
Bows of apology tend to be deeper and last longer than other types of bow. They tend to occur with frequency during the apology, generally at about 45 degrees with the head lowered and lasting for at least the count of three, sometimes longer. The depth, frequency and duration of the bow increases with the sincerity of the apology and the severity of the offence. Occasionally, in the case of apology and begging, people crouch down like Sujud to show one's absolute submission or extreme regret. This is called Dogeza. Even though Dogeza was previously considered very formal, it is mostly regarded as a contempt for oneself today, so it is not used in an everyday setting. Bows of thanks follow the same pattern. In extreme cases a kneeling bow is performed; this bow is sometimes so deep that the forehead touches the floor. This is called saikeirei (最敬礼), literally "most respectful bow."
When dealing with non-Japanese people, many Japanese will shake hands. Since many non-Japanese are familiar with the custom of bowing, this often leads to a combined bow and handshake which can be quite complicated to execute. Bows may be combined with handshakes or performed before or after shaking hands. Generally when bowing in close proximity, as necessitated when combining bowing and shaking hands, people turn slightly to one side (usually the left) to avoid bumping heads.
It is true that a strong leader is the better leader. The show of strength can be what a human chooses it to be.
But perceptions are a weird thing.....i have said before in a past post:
I said…..that Churchill had commented “It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organizing and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the king-emperor.”
Well history proved Churchill on the wrong side of a string of events that led India inexorably towards freedom, with Gandhi leading all the way whether in the Salt March or the entire non-cooperation movement. Thus I said, that every state leader has an image and needs to send strong symbolic messages that define them to their supporters and detractors.
Sometimes it is in being half naked and sometimes in deep bow. Each leader chooses his own.