I've gotten into a couple of these 'discussions' lately at OS and hope to have a dialogue here in the comments section on this subject...
I'm quite amazed actually that Christian fundamentalism is so very alive and well. We are educated people, are we not? Why is it that some people of faith can not, or choose not to, discern the difference between spirituality and religious dogma?
To me it seems simple enough to distinguish between the two.
Spirituality (for lack of a better word) is just that. It's available to all of us. It is at once within us and everywhere; the humbling power of true love that defines the universe. All that is needed to get 'there' is a quiet mind. Shut down the incessant thought process that has ruled your life since you were a small child and open up to all possibilities. Breathe deeply and for a moment or longer just be. Some call it meditation.
For me personally it's not an easy place to get to. I am scared to 'relinquish control' but I have more than a few times. The beauty to be found is immeasurable and indescribable, but to me defines the essence of the spiritual experience.
I truly hope to find a mentor. I've heard that when the student is ready, the teacher will come. Apparently I'm not quite ready. I am after all yet quite young. Yeah, that's the ticket...
We must cease the internal dialogue, the thoughts that rule us and bind us. It's as simple, and yet, as complicated as that. The dialogue in our minds is the chain that holds us here to the earth. Take it away, trick it into submission, and the universe unfolds in all it's love. It was-is right there waiting all the time in All God's Glory.
Knock on the sky and listen to the sound!
So, why the Christian fundamentalism and hatred? Do some Christians really believe that they hold the one and only key to "HEAVEN" through Jesus Christ?
Well yes, apparently. This of course excludes the possibilities that others not adherent to the teachings of Jesus may also have access to the very same 'Kingdom of Heaven.'
That would include around 90 percent of the world's population that are not, GOD forbid, Christian
Should we be so willing to write off 90 percent of the earth's souls as lost?These very spiritual people believe in the teachings of Christ without ever having to be taught by HIM.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Does that not sum it up in a nutshell? That's a universal truth. Jesus doesn't hold the patent.
What of the Jews and Muslims, the Buddhist and Zen Masters, the Sufi and Wu-Li's just to name a few? They will be left to burn when 'THE RAPTURE' comes? God's fury upon them? Seriously?
I would contend that God loves each individual equally, regardless of which path they choose to access HIS LOVE.
As far as religion in public schools? It doesn't belong there, same as it doesn't belong in government. Read the constitution. You want your child in a Jesuit school, etc.? Pay the tuition and then you have the right to bitch all you want.
Henry David Thoreau said...
- It is never too late to give up your prejudices.
- For every ten people who are clipping at the branches of evil, you're lucky to find one who's hacking at the roots.
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That said, every religion I've ever looked at even superficially has its own variation on the Golden Rule. They are fine words to live by, in whatever language.
Bonerges and Mojo, great words to live by aren't they. Yeah I hear Jesuit school is a place to learn not only religion but all the other stuff that we don't get in public school, like how to SPELL!
The Thoreau quotes are nice to read through. I believe he was a man that would have understood what I am feebly attempting to say here.
No apologies, if you believe anything having to do with Christianity you are either: brainwashed, weak, scared, or in "recovery" ...
Imagine the leap of "faith" it takes to say the Bible is the word of God, sent down from the mountaintop, instead of a scroll compilation put together by Constantine to defeat the tetrachy and re-unite the Eastern and Western Roman Empires.
Seriously, there is NO discussion here, nothing at all will change the facts, which are quite well documented ... thanks again to those forging frauding Church scribes ... so easy in hindsight to read between the lines of their apologies.
While all religion is total nonsense, including so called Eastern mystical hog-doo doo and New Age harmonic acoustics, Christianity really takes the cake ... of course, when Greek speaking Jews merged Greek sayings to live by, which in turn were taken from the Egyptians before them, "And the Priest said to Solon, 'Solon, ye Greeks are but children ... '", and forced them into an anti-Rome screed with the angry Yahweh, it was assured there would be no rational consistency, and so, literally from the New Testament, APOLOGISM was birthed.
Imagine, your religion built on apologies, sorry about all the bullshit, you have to ignore the facts and believe ... i.e. kow-tow to Rome, until it falls, then watch as your precious keepers of the flame become the mirror image of Antiquity's Barbarians ...
That is what Good Christians worship ... plain and simple.
I do not think anything is up to us no matter what we do or what we believe in.
rated with hugs
Ms Purple, Separation of Church and State is a farcical whimsy. Separation of Church and public schools is (seems to me) a fairly new concept, but one that should be embraced...
for example:
The feminist agenda... is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.
-- Pat Robertson
With the exception of the "kill their children" part, I'm down with the rest of it!
No problem on the comment length. Not at all.
Amazing is it not how well the propaganda machine works. I attribute that fact to the audience being of weak mind. Like Mojo said, maybe we should accept that there are 20 million fringers out there who care not about the truth. Sheeple is a good word for them. Other words come to mind too..
This is the reason that fanatics who 'value life' will kill abortion providers. that 'martyrs' will blow themselves up in a crowd of children, and rascists will blow up churches with black children in them. Their minds are closed and no more thinking is needed.
Fundamentalism anything is inherently evil.
Kyle, I read your comment last night at Cindy Prochnow's which is the discussion I was speaking of in my intro (the most recent one). You bring a very reasoned tone, and I will agree that the PC crapola may have gone too far in recent years. Christians want to set up nativities and sing songs? Fine with me. But religion should not be taught at PUBLIC school. None. Of any kind, except where it plays a part in history. Once again, you want to and can afford to send your kids to private school? That's a different story.
Gabby, I love that quote. Wish I would have found it when searching.
OOPSIE, dang near skipped AMY! Pat Robertson is my hero! Careful young lady...
Gotta whip up some tuna salad! Run the vacuum? Na.
Constantine died, that's who ... and you know what his Son did? Immediately tried to switch back to Arianism, knowing full well the scam his Dad had pulled on the collective church "Fathers" he gathered at Nicea ... this is so well documented as to not be worthy of debate with you ... you can ignore History, as you do Economics ... if you studied both you would see, as I have pointed out to you several times ... that your "Faith" and your economic "Policies" are, merely, the vestiges of the "Holy" Roman Empire ... I say to you again, learn who the Habsburgs were, and what they did, then, once you have done your homework, come into a Salon and pray tell us why you would follow the Austrian School of Economics, and you so profess you do ... no "religion" worth its salt (thanks a "Lot") would be so feeble as to freak out every time someone points out a flaw ... but when the flaws are so multitude, the whole "Faith" one big apology for the lies ... good thing Christine O'Donnell is on the scene to straighten us out ... how do you relate to her Kyle?
The extra 10% is for the things he could have said but in kindness and a spirit of of treating believers as though they were people, he didn't.
Kyle contradicts himself both subtly and blatantly. Like all good believers he talks out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. And this cracks me up....!
"""I don't think religion should be taught in public schools, but I do think if any child wants to pray or write I love God, or Jesus, or Allah on their notebook they should have the right to do so."""
Isn't that a dandy?!!
Religion shouldn't be taught in schools so long as children are being brainwashed with it somewhere else to the point that they would write a stupid religious phrase on their notebook. I suppose we are expected to be too stupid to see through this religionists 'oh so socially acceptable liberalism'. I'll bet he can drink tea with his pinky finger extended too.
While I'm here I might as well take a bite out of another bit of nonsense. Spiritualism. What a crock of doo-doo that is!! Meditation my foot. I studied and practiced self-hypnotism as a teen-ager. I can float myself off to la-la land (mentally) any time I want to. And Trig, I loves ya like a brother, but the only "Guru" you should give heed to is the one inside yourself called "Common Sense".
OK, I'll leave it at that for now, just out of politeness; but if Kyle wants to "make something of it" I'll be overjoyed - then I can take the gloves off !!
Linnnn 'killer angels?' Nice. Amen.
Anna Voy.. thanks for the input and welcome.
Alrighty then!
ONL... Southern baptists are the one that drink Lord Calvert on Saturday night to avoid going to church on Sunday, correct?
Thanks sir..
Check out this site. All will be revealed to you (~grin~)
http://commonsenseatheism.com/
There is a difference between TRUTH and RIGHT, and I have seen the latter corrupt and maim otherwise well-intentioned earnest seekers once they adhere to the principle of RIGHT because once that happens; once you align yourself with a dogma or doctrine or unyielding religious organization and you become RIGHT, that must mean that everyone else is WRONG.
As soon as separatism lifts its smug little head and you agree to it, you're doomed; you've lost sight of what true spirituality really is, which is a measure of love offered to everyone without question or judgment.
Whenever a belief creates a schism, and 'us' and 'them', you've just put a ceiling on available wisdom.
This life, this world is a uniquely subjective experience for every single human being because we are all unique individuals. How is it then that we allow others to tell us what is right and what we should believe?
Combating evil is a worthy battle. Combating ideology is a waste of time. There is only one empirical TRUTH we can experience on this linear plane and they have named it LOVE. If the love is there, acceptance will follow and each man will find his own way toward God and wisdom in his own way at his own level of understanding.
I'm not sure if I am able to make much sense without comment-whoring here, trig, but that is the gist of it. I loved this post and am excited by your queries into all of this.........way to go!
My favorite quote by Hafiz, the sufi poet, sums it up pretty well:
"Even after all this time the sun never says to the earth 'You owe me.' Look what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky!"
The following follows the loooonnnnggg practice of visual metaphor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_As_A_Queen_Sebastian_Munster_1570.jpg
What is really key re: the Habsburgs and today is to never, ever forget that the nonsense economic policies advocated by the tea baggers, christian right, assorted republican frat boys and other equally selfish or deluded, well, idiots, is the Austrian School of "thinking", designed from inception to keep those not in the Alps down, down, down ...
example B:
http://www.slovakia.culturalprofiles.net/?id=-8793
Aloha Kakou
Although, I don't necessarily advocate acceptance across the board. How can we accept the Tom Cruises of this world trying to force their religion down our throats? While I don't agree that religion is something that humans need, it is here to stay and I ask kindly that people keep it to themselves. Plus, there are different degrees of plausibility in the religions. Yes, I suppose there is a possibility that a deity exists. But separate planets? Virgins? The number '72' seems rather arbitrary. Who cooks up that dung?
Anyway, how about a good healthy dose of ignorance? I know, it sounds like an oxymoron. But, if it doesn't hurt anyone, then it should be a non-issue. The problem is that it does hurt others. How do we stop the wheels from turning?
To clearly see the juxtaposition of common sense vs. religious dogma, you need to watch the video of the conversation between David Buss and Richard Dawkins (it's 8 parts long, but WELL worth watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZw3lxyuhEU ) and compare it to this article:
http://www.creationstudies.org/Education/fallacies.html
Then, if you aren't scared enough already, watch this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL9qFmeBHPQ
Beliefs are the bane of mankind. I do not tolerate foolish ones much less those evil and corrupt ones that hide within religion.
My tolerance is saved for people - not beliefs. Those who are so weak as to seek knowledge by means of "revelation" disgust me. Knowledge comes as a result of plain ol' hard work and scientific study. "Knowing the writings of some, even many, of those who also sought "shortcuts to knowledge" that require "belief" in gods, mystics, philosophies, religions, and the modern thing of "love-is-the-answer" does not imply knowledge of anything other than those shortcuts.
Tell me one provably true fact you've ever learned from any of that balderdash. Go to school, study SCIENCE if you want truth. It won't be TRUTH but it will be the best that mankind has managed to acquire to date. TRUTH has never been proven to exist. And yes, I know very well that you are gutlessly using the word TRUTH to mean some mystical concept that is, by others, named GOD. That particular semantic trick is old hat and usually even a teen-ager is able to discern it. But then you have, it seems, become so accustomed to dazzling yourself with this sort of inane "wisdom" that you really expect others to be impressed by it also.
In Aldous Huxley's novel "Those Barren Leaves," a character named Miss Thriplow, who finds herself between affairs and bored, is suddenly taken with the idea that she ought to become more "serious and spiritual":
She got into bed, and lying on her back, with all her muscles relaxed, she began to think about God .... God is a spirit, she said to herself. She tried to picture something huge and empty, but alive. A huge flat expanse of sand,for example, and over it a huge blank dome of sky; and above the sand everything should be tremulous and shimmering with heat — emptiness that was yet alive. A spirit, an all-pervading spirit. God is a spirit. Three camels appeared on the horizon of the sandy plain and went lolloping along in an absurd, ungainly fashion from left to right. Miss Thriplow made an effort and dismissed them. God is a spirit, she said aloud But of all animals, camels are really almost the queerest; when one thinks of their frightfully supercilious faces, with their protruding underlips like the last Hapsburg kings of Spain .... No, no; God is a spirit, all-pervading, everywhere. All the universes are made one in him.
If you want to piss off one of these "Christian Whatever", tell them that, the Holy Bible is a book, written by men, not God and then sit back as you get called a "Heathen of the Nth Degree!! Burn in the Fires of Hell you Angel of Deciet, SO SAYETH THE LORD!!!!!!"
These people translate the Word even further into their own ideals, "It says in the Bible that God hates fags!!!" Uh, it does? Where? Show me where it says that. "Man shall not lay down with another man..." No no no, show me......yeah, they can't.
God does not hate his Children!
What God is a grumpy old man who likes to fuck with his children daily.
How do I know?
He told me so.
Seriously.
Someday, I'll write THE TRUE WORD OF GOD, but involves something like Fred Sanford, YOU BIG DUMMY!!
Your friend,
Jack
Still have one more run to make and when I get back I will attempt to respond individually. Welcome back from Pittsboyg SCJ!
BDJ atheist? where? OK let us pray for his dying soul... never to late to convert doontchaknoo
i think all religions have their fair share of lunatics...unfortunately, its those that tend to get all the press.
Kyle WO man! Sorry I couldn't resist! Would tend to agree that you can write whatever you want in YOUR notebook... That's not what I would call faculty teaching of/or leaning towards one particular religion at school. The Sunday School they learned that at was on their own time. See, Sunday school and public school needs to remain separate though.
http://open.salon.com/blog/rarobertsjr/2010/09/20/atheist_is_dying_would_you_pray_for_him
Secondly, I'm not going to argue this point with you (or anyone else for that matter) because you are a person of "faith". The dictionary tells us that the definition of faith is "a belief that is not based on proof".
My kids used to "believe" that there was this dude named Santa. They never had any proof of that either. They came home one day and were upset because they had "discovered" that there wasn't REALLY a Santa. They were upset because the still WANTED to believe even though they had no proof and even though it flew in the face of logic. We finally told them that if they wanted to believe in Santa, that was cool with us, even though the idea would get them a great deal of harassment and that people would think they were bat shit crazy. Bottom line is that "faith", because it requires no proof, makes it capable for those that WANT to believe to be able to regardless of facts.
That said, I think you and every other xian can knock yourselves out. Believe all you like that there is some big 'ol Sky Daddy that cares intimately about everything you say and do. No skin off my back.
But where the skin DOES get peeled is when xians INSIST that their believe in some Sky Daddy Santa is a FACT and that EVERYONE had damn well better believe it or else. The problem is exacerbated because it's NOT just a fringe group. The EVERYONE who believe in the bible and Sky Daddy.
BTW, the MAJORITY of your good xian religions believe that gay marriage is an abomination because the big 'ol Sky Daddy said so in a book that has no substantiable facts in it at all. How can you believe in such a piece of fiction? BECAUSE YOU HAVE FAITH! = Big old circular argument without any proof. I'm not going to waste my time trying to change anybody's mind that can believe in something that illogical.
Amy, thanks and I will watch all those after I study up on the Hapsburg's and Austrian top of the mountanism.
Acceptance means we allow each other different beliefs without stepping on anyone's toes. However, should all religions and how people treat them be accepted with a broad stroke of a brush? No, as many defy logic and reason. I choose not to accept the fact that someone kills in the name of a religion, but I am powerless to stop it. If I had intolerance, it suggests that I will actively oppose it and step in the way of what I can't tolerate. How many of us would kill in the name of secularism?
Tolerance also suggests allowing something to happen without saying anything. That keeps the peace on the surface, but there is no understanding.
That said, feel free to poke a stick in what may be a circular argument on my part.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/07/religious_right_co
ntrols_texas.php
Xians just got to try to make EVERYONE have "faith".
You continue to confuse tolerance of people with tolerance of dangerous and evil beliefs. IN CASE YOU HADN'T NOTICED, PEOPLE AND BELIEFS ARE NOT THE SAME THING. And christians hold some 0f the worst beliefs ever invented. Have you read no history at all? Do you not know what was done at Salem to innocent people by those who "believed"? Both the major christian religions have held inquisitions. Does the evil inherent in such behaviour not make you shudder? This is the kind of thing done in the name of religions.
I cannot, and will not tolerate the advocacy of such unrelenting evil without raising my voice in protest. I WILL NOT be tolerant of it.
I am tolerant of people. NOT idiotic, dangerous beliefs. If you can't separate the two then ask someone for assistance, preferably an atheist.
And yes, in lecturing us on your concept of good and tolerance you are very much being condescending. Do you think that we have lived as adults for these many years without having met this idea many times before? Do you know how many of us already subscribe to all or part of your ideas of tolerance?
And as to foolish questions such as asking if we know whether or not there is a god, do you think I answered that question for myself ten minutes ago? And you are wrong; I DO know whether or not there is a god.
I also know that you DO believe there is a god. Your piteous plea for "tolerance" is only the first step believers use to eventually demand dominance. I've seen this over and over in my lifetime (which may exceed yours to date by a large margin). It is a typical ploy of christians when they are in a tight corner in a discussion.
I've never been granted "tolerance" in any discussion that I have had with a christian when he/she is skinning me alive. (Yeah, it happens.) Seems the "tolerance" is only a one-way street. If there is one feature held in common by all varieties of christianity down through the ages it is intolerance of other or non-belief. Don't cry now for tolerance of your nonsense. Christians not only didn't tolerate a difference of belief, they didn't even tolerate the people who held different beliefs enough to let them live!!
Of course, everyone already knows what the truth is. It's just interesting to see who admits what.
For me it comes down to the simple dichotomy
of Inside and Outside.
I am here Inside. When i speak to you, who are Outside,
i bring you Inside.
What is this f---ing Inside? It is not "me",
that's for damn sure. "me" is like a flashlight,
look here, then there, then there, in
temporal order. Blah. I could do without this damn "me
"
but i am stuck with it.
Like a river of consciousness
is what i am...
the source? oh boy...that must be...the Creator....
I am his creation, creating,
in his damn image,
as they say we humans are...
it comes down to: trust the source?
or stay lonely Inside, making yourself invulnerable
with matchbook structure of ego...like: "i am so much
specialer than you, poor you..."
Inside is where the action is...
I dig rock 'n'roll music too. Thanks for the thoughts. Free cream tonight pal..
Holley Golightly (love that name, singer and Jack White's cockney lover). Great point. I believe (belief is bad? oh yeah forgot) that we meet people for a reason. Always a lesson to be learned for the meeter, the meet-ee, or both.
heidibeth... welcome to the church of TRIG! "beautifully and clearly stated" You are a wise person!
bethybug... yeah, like that mustachioed fruitcake in Florida!
snarkychaser, glad to hear from someone with a zero religion upbringing. I'm thinking you can find some good education above in the links provided. I know I will be. Thank you.
I made the most kick ass tuna salad this afternoon. Very thankful today that Noah allowed that mating pair of Tuna onto the big boat.
Mr. Sunshine... "Inside is where the action is." I would say that it's equally outside as inside; that the two are the same working in sync, or that there is not... fuck, hard to put into words.
sixty.. is quite the discussion eh. Most days I fall pretty short too. Ask my girlfriends! (attempt at levity). Thanks much.
Alright, I have skipped addressing people who were talking to other people but besides that I believe I have caught up, so I will have time now to go send a few million sperm to their deaths (see Major Mojo's post from today).
Kidding of course and thanks for the comment. Teach me how to get an EP will ya? It's been a month or six.
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς• ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς
οὗτος ἐστιν ὁ λίθος ὁ ἐξουθενηθεὶς ὑφ’ ὑμῶν τῶν οἰκοδόμων, ὁ γενόμενος εἰς κεφαλὴν γωνίας. καὶ οὐκ ἐστιν ἐν ἄλλῳ οὐδενὶ ἡ σωτηρίᾳ οὐδὲ γὰρ ὄνομα ἐστιν ἕτερον ὑπὸ τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸ δεδομένον ἐν ἀνθρώποις ἐν ᾧ δεῖ σωθῆναι ἡμᾶς
"Why spirituality is sexy but religion is not"
"Most of my Facebook friends are clear about their religious views. They identify as Lutheran, Catholic, or atheist. I also have friends who view their religion as a canvas of self-expression. A friend of mine says he is a "Latter-day Bacchanalian/Dionysian, Pastafarian, Cthulhu Cultist." My cousin tells her online friends, "I'm spiritual, not religious … and I enjoy checking out European cathedrals."
"She's not alone. The number of people who self-identify using the long-popular phrase "spiritual but not religious" is still growing. In 1998, 9 percent of American adults told the General Social Survey they were spiritual but not religious. By 2008, it had risen to 14 percent. Among those ages 18 to 39, the increase was even more dramatic, and 18 percent now say they are spiritual but not religious.
"The growth is not because people are less likely to identify as religious, but because nonreligious people are more likely to say they are spiritual, says Duke sociologist Mark Chaves.
"Part of the phrase's popularity can be attributed to its sex appeal. No, really. A social psychologist at Britain's Southampton University looked at 57 studies covering 15,000 experiment subjects, and reported in Personality and Social Psychology Review that North Americans find "intrinsically religious" people desirable—but that the desirability decreases if people portray themselves as extrinsically religious."
There's more, although I doubt you care — but see what cool things you can learn from religious people?
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
'bout sums it all up for me.
lorianne, that quote is so spot on. Thanks much.
Natalie! I've turned into the farmer scholar!!! (As if) good to see you!
It is heartening to hear you state that you are not sure if a couple's son was fathered by a metaphysical figure, or that you are not sure if he died ... stayed dead a few days, then was re-animated like Frankenstein.
That is good news, it begs the question how you can support others who believe these things and use them to stop others from marrying, from seeing dying lovers, from working without discrimination, from helping to protect our nation, and oh there's more as that is the agenda hate has on its calendar.
As to whether you believe various stories in the Bible ... well, each book in the Bible is a scroll, all of which were independent of being bound together, in fact, Bible, a Greek word, means, "Little Books" ... so the name has been obvious as to how the expected reaction to it was intended ... then came the Dark Ages.
Each scroll has many, many scholars analyzing it. The stories that are true are proved by cross-referencing them with other documents of the time ... in fact, there are so many scrolls for each book that there are all sorts of discussions and debates on who changed what, for what political, financial or military reason, and there are many, many scrolls which have been analyzed and the actual forger-er-changes are documented ... in the parchment itself!
So, while it is not possible to know each detail, we can surmise that Jonah did not live inside a large fish for an extended time ... whereas we can pinpoint the location of Revelation's Armageddon, realize it is the longtime intersection of Antiquity's major battling powers and know without question the feared Beast is no longer scary as Nero is long dead, and Rome is no more ... save for its Churches.
Love and warmth to you. Thank you.
i used to think i understood at least one organized (it happened to be christian) religion and was even a participant for a while, until i realized i liked the trappings and the music and the architecture and the smells and not so much the rigidity and the dogma and the rules and the 'ours is right, theirs is wrong' stuff.
and the older i got, the more it seemed that these groups that choose their guy or their deity or their dogma is "the one" didn't make (to me) any more sense than the aztecs who used to sacrifice people to please their gods or the egyptians who worshipped the sun and cats or the true ancients who believed some mystical something was responsible for whether they had a good crop or not. and especially when most of them think that people who don't believe what they believe deserve to be punished or, worse, killed -- well, that's just stupid.
i get cultural identity and i'm fine with that. but when you start calling something 'holy,' that clearly implies that someone or something else is not, and the competition starts. and i'd rather be doing yoga or admiring the tree outside my window or reveling in how beautiful my granddaughter is and how happy her parents are. that's holy enough for me.
off the soapbox ... ;;
AUWE
Oahu and sky both stated unequivocally above in comments that they believe in no organized religions (or otherwise I believe).
Wow, can't believe this discussion. I mean, I love it. Thanks to all who have participated. I can't keep up. My favorite football team is playing... go figure, the SAINTS! Will be checking in from time to time. Party on. God bless you :o)
True, the reason THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN is not because of any thought you've had, or hadn't, they did NOT happen because it is entirely impossible to live in a giant fish, turn water into wine, fly around the Vatican, then get shot down, or, frankly, even to see Jesus on a road somewhere- another thing THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
You are done, fine, your education still awaits though ... I will be done when religion is no longer used by any cult to HATE on anyone, anywhere.
Perhaps a good read might be James Michener's Hawaii ... despite an obvious Western bias it can't help but show the hate and damage Protestants did to our Islands ... a very factual yet entertaining book and a good place to start in friendly territory.
Kyle, in closing on this one ... HATERS, in this case dressed up as Christians, are trying to hurt MY PEOPLE ... after already doing so much damage in the past, again, we will never stand down, never.
Just so you know, Jesus is a big Chargers fan. Season tickets and the whole deal.
BTW, you oughta see that boy tailgate! His water into wine coolers trick is amazing and his feed everybody fish tacos out of one is one hell of a hit!
Amy, STFU! He fed a crowd fish tacos with a single fish?
And who beat the Chargers in week one? The Hawkeyes?
I agree. There is that risk to generalize any group and take a broad brush and paint the whole thing black and white.
Oahu, besides agreeing with a lot of what you said, the fact that you used "begs the question" correctly endears you to me. I'm pedantic, yet so easy.
Thanks!
Daytime's always been too loud or bright - night-time's perfect.
Just breathing, and letting the thoughts do whatever they want - the thoughts are the least of this ( and they hate that ) - just finding breathing, the cotton, the awareness of my body - trig it's working.
Eventually I might sleep, or not.
But I've given this big old frame some time to connect with itself that isn't running or paddling or working - it just is.
Like you said, it isn't easy, but at 3am what else are you going to do with it ?
What I like is the peace, and bit by bit beginning to accept who I am again.
Kim, glad you are getting results with meditation. I get the feeling that it's a bit easier for those without penises. The penis keeps us chained to the earth, or we are too in love with our thoughts. Something. Sleep brutha!
Craze... I can testify that love IS real. Xplains my feelings for you, and why you are in my nightma.... dreams!
If ignorance and intolerance are your goals you've chosen well.
Define extraterrestrial- if, you mean LIFE ... well then be assured there is life in this solar system, microbes on Mars and the Moons of the Giants, which are very much alive, in fact the same kind of LIFE that dominated Earth for billions of years, for by far the majority of this planet's existence ... if you mean opposable thumbs or some other way of building computers so credulous, uneducated people can sit in the chairs formerly occupied by educated folks, well, for that kind of LIFE you have to look far, far, far away ...
You're gettin' good at this thingy Trigger!
Other than reading though I'm not getting any closer to this one, just to say that it's interesting, the various 'recognitions' of religion (organized or not-so-mainstream) vs the recognition of spirit (a thing in all of us that contain life no matter the species).
Well.. ok, I always find the scientists entertaining, those who will feel only what they can see, ignoring all of the evidences of that which can not be seen but is there all the same - not seeing it doesn't make it go away ;). But hey, they're questioning and that's always of value.
I can't disagree with ya, I think we're probably pretty much on the same page, you and I, must be a Kansas thing :).
Rated for those who ask.