Trudge164

Trudge164
Location
Arrive Alive!, Florida, USA
Birthday
February 29
Title
Noh-Won
Bio
Sometimes serious, sometimes comical, always topical. =========================== A guy can dream and drown in a deluge of his own delusional thinking. Can't he? ========================= People have said this about me: "He was just one of those guys with that weird light around him. He just knew he wasn't gonna get so much as a scratch here." --Willard talking about Kilgore, "Apocalypse Now" =========================== It is what it is until it no longer is, then it becomes something else.

MARCH 18, 2010 4:18PM

Are You a Censor when you use the “Comments Closed” button?

Rate: 24 Flag
free press poster_typewriter with thumb tacks on keys

 This is the Free Press 3000 typewriter. It has very sharp thumb tacks for keys. It was designed for those who have what it takes to be a writer.
Wanna take it out for a spin?

 

 

Are you tough enough to express yourself? To write what you think? To write what you feel? To suffer the slings and arrows of those who oppose your thoughts? Your ideas? Your ideals? Are you tough enough to get bloodied up for your convictions? Are you tough enough to be a writer?

 

Then why do you close your comments?

 

Every now and then, I run into a post on Open Salon in which a Blogger posts something controversial or starts a war. In an effort to avoid confrontation, the writer uses the “Comments are now closed” function to prevent others from commenting.

 

The writer does this for a variety of reasons: they are afraid of a backlash, they realize they just created a firestorm with no way of knowing how to put it out, or they are afraid of other bloggers writing snarky comments on it just to be snarky. Notice that the main motivator here is “fear” or “being afraid”.

 

The Editors sometimes use the Comments Closed function when they do an Open Call because they are using the Open Call as an assignment for Bloggers to post something on their own blog not to leave a 10,000 word manifesto in the Open Call’s comments field. Apparently, some Open Salon Bloggers don’t get the Open Call concept and write their response to it in the comments sections so I see why the editors use this function.

 

However, some people use it as a cowardly way of writing something and not having to defend it. Therefore it is a form of censorship because it prevents a dissenting opinion to be heard.

 

A dissenter could easily write a post countering the Blogger’s opinion in question, and reference the original post by copying & pasting that post’s URL into his or her dissenting post. This counter-post is still being censored because it puts distance between the original post and the counterpoint. Even though a reader (of the counter-post) will be able to easily view the original post by clicking the URL, most people will be too lazy to do just that.

 

Writers are risk-takers. Whenever you put pen to page, or keystroke to paper or pixels, you are taking a chance especially when you publish it. The primary chance you are taking is “will people like or hate my work?” The second chance is “will I enrage or enlighten people?” And, third is, “can I handle the counter-attacks?” 

 

So if you are going to write, especially something controversial, you must be prepared to bloody your keypad, your paper, your screen and your precious ego with your own blood and avoid using the “Comments are now closed” function.

 

Don’t even get me started on Bloggers who delete comments.

 

Image source: The original source was from a calendar a vendor gave me over ten years ago. The calendar was full of compelling and thought-provoking images some with or without text. After that year was up, I kept this image and mounted in on a board. I keep it in my cubicle at work. Why? I’m in advertising.

 

I cannot find the original source of this image. I cannot remember who the vendor was. If anyone knows anything about its origins, please contact me so I can give it its proper credit.

 

 

 

 

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Great picture! I didn't even know you could close comments. I suppose my posts are so innocuous that I'm actually thrilled to pieces if someone bothers commenting! I agree with you - don't go into the kitchen if you can't stand the heat!
Good points well taken. Even greater pic.
I close comments if I want. I delete if the mood strikes me. It's my blog. It's a dictatorship over there with me as the ruler. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.
don't get me started on people who not only close comments, but delete the entire post. i go back and forth, because i have seen comments that could be considered harassment, but it takes a special kind of person to write something contentious, close comments when you can't defend what you've written, delete the post when someone publishes a response on their blog so the response is to... nothing... and then call the person who responded a stalker.

great post. i hope you get more discussion!
Just because someone wishes to publicly expose their darker side doesn't mean that I have to leave it laying around for my grandchildren and friends. That's like suggesting that we never take out the trash. If you want to live there, fine for you, it's your blog.
I agree with Odette but also believe that if you're going to write it, you should stand by it and up to it. There have been a few instances on here where it was appropriate and the writer stipulated that he/she was closing comments in the opening of the post. But, it does remain the perogative of the writer.
This is really good, Trudgeh. Really good. I can say that I have only closed comments on posts that were tributes to OS'ers who have passed, because it seems to be a cultural tradition here now to do so. I feel weird about that, actually. And I closed comments on posts where I wasn't feeling well and deleted the entire post because the whole thing was a bad idea to start. But, I can say that on the posts I have been the most 'controversial' I have left those comments way open. I am proud of that. I gained much from doing so. xox
I agree with odette. It's my blog and my rules. And I don't even have to comply with my own rules if I don't want to.

However, I also hate it when people post open-ended attacks and then close comments. Like yesterday's "You know who you are" post without any explanation whatsoever. It's kind of like hitting a baseball without giving the other team a chance to catch it - what's the point?
I have closed comments when the discussion went on for DAYS. I got bored. So, I closed comments to get people to move on.

I am THAT person. I close comments if I get bored. ha!

No, really. I seriously do what I want to do over there. If people don't like it, too bad.
I've never considered "closed comments", but there have been plenty of time when I wanted to delete some idiots. I didn't but.., Except for those damn ads!
If I feel strongly enough about a post to which the poster has closed comments, I would send a Private Message. There's much more else to worry about in life than to lose sleep over something like that.
A blog belongs to the blogger. If s/he feels it's being taken over as a free for all, it is also her/his prerogative to close and/or delete the comments .
~R~
Although I've been tempted, I haven't done it, because (1) I figure I need to develop a thicker skin and (2) I don't want vicious PMs in my inbox.

I'm capable of defending my writing, but usually I'm not inclined to explain why I've written what I've written. Everyone, including readers, brings their own experience to a piece; no one writes or reads free of personal experience (aka, in some cases, baggage). You can't change how someone else has experienced something.

As usual, what people write in their comments reveals more about them than about the blogger or the post on which they're commenting. Once you've made your point, move on. Neither side is likely to win an argument here. Some of the exchanges I've seen are devisive, if not downright vicious--not likely to convince anyone into accepting the other viewpoint. People can become so obsessed with being right (and we all think we are) that disagreements turn into attacks. If that happened on a post of mine, would I delete comments or turn them off? I hope not.

LOVE the image you posted with this.
Typo. Divisive. I hate when that happens.
I think nasty comments say more about the commenter than about me, and I can't recall ever deleting any. Only twice in all my multitude of posts have I ever closed comments, once when things got so out of hand someone accused me ob being a wife-beater -- I'm still trying to figure out what was the evidence for that -- and once on a post I considered too sacred, if you will, to be sullied by my comments or anyone else's. In fact, I got PMs from a couple of people thanking me for not permitting comments on that post.
It's an interesting question. I've never closed comments, although I've wanted to. Thanks for making me ponder this. rated.
I would agree all in or all out on comments!!
If you close them before you post..then you invite NO FEEDBACK...good or bad.
If open..all open I say
oh crazeczar, trudge has been here since 1/2009, only 6 months after os was inceived.
I think it is my 'front porch' where I do what ever pleases me.
I am the ultimate ruler of me blog. I will delete a jackanapes with no mercy.

Fortunately, I get great commenters who may disagree or not, but who usually do not get publicly rude and ugly. Plus, they're smart as hell.

Otherwise, folks can backstab me to death or talk about me like a dog in private messages that never get to my mailbox. If that happened, I might come after them and start Word War IV.

It's a good thing to be slightly scary as hell, and to set some personal standards for what goes on in ones own blog in an open forum.

It is also a good thing to let others work their issues as they need to in their own blogs.

Otherwise, this is all just entertainment. We give it. We get it. Sometimes we vent. That's all.
Love the way you handled this, Trudge. Before I read the comments, I agreed completely. Then I got so pissed I tried to delete this entire post, but failed. Dammit. I do wish we could delete comments we've made on others' posts, especially if we later realize we screwed up - as I almost did with this one.

That said, bottom line, at the end of the day, ipso facto and the aforementioned heretofore, I believe that if a blogger wants to feel like king or queen of his or her blog, more power to him or her. But I quickly lose interest in the person and his or her blog if it appears the blogger is an ass with little or no redeeming qualities in his or her writing. I've stumbled onto a few here in my short tenure, and have cut them loose to work their tyranny on others to their hearts' content. almost not rated for getting my shorts in a knot
Like most subjects, it's not always cut and dried. I've never closed comments myself or deleted comments for that matter, unless they were spam. That said, I can envision the rare scenario when it's appropriate but it would be rare.

The typewriter is a great photo.
The only time I've ever closed comments on any post of mine was because I felt no matter how many times I stated my views on what I'd written, (At least three times) I was locked in a circular argument with a person who could say "Yes, but--" clear back to the big bang and then keep scolding me for daring to be frustrated with the administration. And so, rather than expend any more energy when I'd already spoken my piece, I ended the discussion. That's been the only time I've ever done it.
perhaps everyone was not so impressed with your big and thick cut schlong claim to fame. Justa thought big dude.
Trudge is an OS icon and a great person. He can do these posts, dude.
Sorry, I could not respond earlier, but paternal duties take precedence over Blog funcitons. Now once more into the breach, dear friends!

Pavanne, Thanks! Stick with me kid and you'll learn things, and keep your kitchen door wide open.

Kathy, thank you two times.
Will you please delete this comment immediately!
Odette Roulette, at least you are open and honest about it.


B. Strangely, yes there those that delete the box after Pandora has opened it. It all boils down don't start something if you can't finish it. BTW,ty for brining up my time on OS, I wasn't sure if it was Jan. or Feb.
In the past, I have deleted my posts that I thought were frivolous and did not cause controversy. Like my very first post, the one about the robot urinal. Or music videos that I snagged from YouTube or jokes that I recycled. But none of them were thought-provoking.


Dr. Susanne Freeborn, Bloggers are free to do what they want on their blogs, but by using the tactics I mentioned and a few others you are creating you are silencing the voice of others.

Walter, that's the point! If you put it out there you have to realize that people will not always like your POV. It's like the kid who makes fun of everyone and when he/she gets teased goes crying to his/her mommy or teacher.
Robin, thanks. You do have a choice to close or leave them open, but when you post something that you know will irk people you should be willing to go to the mat.

Damion Chaplin, rule away in your own Private Idaho. How uncanny you should mention "that" post.

Odette Roulette, interesting point. I just wear them out by not replying to the comments. Eventually, the die out.

Scanner, true but even idots have a right to comment.
FusunA, yes! A blog does belong to a blogger, but when you deny people their right to speak out even if it's against you then you have caused more harm than good.

CrazeCzar, ty for the lesson, but I have been here for over a year and I am all too familiar with the way things run around here. BTW, the fact that you haven't run into me before is a testament to the my lowly botto-feeder status here on Open Salon.

Susan Mihalic, your first point matches my overall point and the image I used. If you want to be a writer, you need to have a thick skin. BTW, typos are welcomed on my blog.
Tom, two good reasons, and you have the right to do what you did, but for me I would have kept them opened.

Caroline Hagood, ponder away! It's nice to know I'll be in a pretty-bright, pretty young lady's thoughts. Just don't tell my wife.
JD Smith, that's one way of looking at it, but for me it's wide open.

B. Strangely, thanks for watching my back.

Mission, I like yor way better. Will there be lemonade?

Xenonlit XL, you're right for the most part this is just entertainment.

Bonnie Russell, which idiot...err..blogger might that be?

Matt Paust, I like the feature that the blogger can only delete comments on his or her posts. It makes the commentators think before they send.
Cap'n Parrotdead, true! Nothing is ever really black and white, but you sometimes have to set your own standards and stick with them.

Shiral, good point, but you could have just ignored them. They eventually would have gotten the point.

Davyboy, huh?

Xenonlit XL, thanks for watching my back and the compliment.

Aunt Mabel, the voice of reason,seriously. I still think one should always be open for dialog.

John Blumenthal, are you kidding? Your comments on a bottom-feeders blog like mine is worth gold.

The comments lines are still (and will remain) open folks.
There are some good reasons for using the "Comments are Closed" feature, but more often than not, it's as you say; people who do it are wussies. Pffft on 'em.
Nanatehay, thanks for your support and joining the good fight.
I've never deleted a comment, but I was tempted once when folks have occasionally tried to hijack my post, put words in my mouth that I didn't say, attacked others who commented on my post. Deleting entire posts? Sure, I've done that if I wanted. And I owe no one an explanation or excuse.

The choice to edit our blogs are options to me and anyone else. My blog is my virtual real estate. But like some others, I generally steer clear of controversial subjects (though some folks know how to make pretty much ANYTHING into an argument). And who's to say what is provocative or not? Censorship? Nah - just expression of styles. And folks - let's face it - most of what we're blogging about or commenting about is not going to swivel the earth on its axis.
I clicked on someone's post today titled: Is my personal space getting in your way?
Thinking it was in response to this ;)
Shiral, good point, but you could have just ignored them. They eventually would have gotten the point.

And you have a good point. Alas, when I read "someone has left a comment on your blog!" I turn into one of Pavlov's dogs and have to go rushing off to find out what they said.

Most of the time, the LAST thing I want to do is discourage anyone from commenting!
Kit Duncan, when you deny someone the right to speak, it is censorship.

Amanda Gulledge, I take it wasn't.

kjfoieuoi uoiuoiu, u r da first spambot to visit my blog. Greetings! I see you bring gifts with price tags.

Shiral, I read all the comments on my post, but when they start getting too weird I just wear them down by not recognizing them.

The comments lines are still open folks.
More often than not, when I see a post with comments closed, it's someone who just wanted to say some nasty shit with0ut having to listen to any criticism of it. It's pretty sad really.
There was only one post of mine where I considered closing comments. It wasn't because the post was controversial, it was because it was rather self-indulgent. It didn't offer anything to a reader other than a glimpse into my brain. It wasn't especially entertaining, or provacative or wise. I wanted to share it, but I didn't want my online friends to feel obligated to praise/comment/rate. There are many reasons why a blogger might close comments, and the reasons aren't always negative. (Though I DO get where you are coming from.)
Drew-Silla, that's the point. The blogger wants to throw rocks but doesn't want any one to throw them back.

Bellwether Vance, I'm after the ones that open the box and run away.
Some of these comment closers remind of some people in my office who like to lob a grenade and then run and hide behind a tree and see what happens. I don't take them too seriously as a general practice but they sure do stir up the shit.

It does make me laugh when I see how some bloggers will make a fairly controversial point and then get all whacked out when someone challenges them.

And I've got to say that the the Agent 86 (Maxwell Smart) dead ringer pic pose is awesome. Keep on trudgin'.
LOL! Nah, I have never denied anyone the right to speak. You can say what you have to say anywhere you want. If I don't want to listen to you I always have the right to walk away - or to delete a comment. Your right to speak never interferes with my right to not listen. Your argument amounts to you having the right to plop into my living room and speak your mind. Which frankly, I don't much mind - of course, you gotta get past a few Dobermans to do so! I not only have a right to filter what I read or listen to, but a responsibility as well. And my blog is my own - why in the world should I be held captive to anyone else's rules in my own space? As I say, though - I haven't ever deleted a comment. Only saying I can if I want, and the world won't collapse.
Grif, yes we have them in the real world too. BTW, the look was purely unintentional.

Kit, no one is barging into your living room, but when you put something out there for all to read you should at least hear them out before you shut them out.
BTw, Dobermans are afraid of me.
I just don't think that it is entirely a bad thing to silence others if what they wish to do is take a crap in my front yard. I don't mind disagreement, but I've had some nasty attacks and some incredibly insensitive and mean spirited things directed at me. Just as I don't leave "F You!" signs at my front door, I don't leave such comments on my blog. But I am not out throwing verbal bombs at folks either.
Interestingly, your title ("Are You a Censor when you use the “Comments Closed” button?") is in the form of a question. But if we answer it the "wrong" way you scold us because we disagree with the way you think we should have answered.

Censorship is a slippery word, trudge - in a sense, every publisher who selects what to print and what not to print, every editor who makes the tiniest change in copy, is censoring.

These sorts of "censorship" I don't mind so much - it's just a reality. The censorship that does sort of agitate me, though, is when someone asks me a question and then rings me out because I dare to answer it differently than he wants me to.

Just because you don't delete a post doesn't mean you're not censoring. It's one thing to banter our ideas about - it is quite another thing to summarily discount another person because they disagree with you.

And what is amusing to me is that pragmatically I HAVE agreed with you inasmuch as I have personally never deleted a post (except, since I first commented on your blog here, I did go and delete one of those spam-ads. Hey. I am no purist!). All's I'm saying is we have the right to delete if we want to. And if this makes me a censor, well, I can live with that, I reckon.

I'm thinking you may not be quite as open as you want us to believe.
LOL again, trudge!!! You are FUN! I expect you can put the scare into alot of things. I don't know if you could scare my Dobies or not - possibly so, probably not. I expect we'll never know, will we?

I agree with you - if I write something on my blog and leave the comments open, I DO want to see what folks say. And as I say, I've still got the old inflammatory comments up. My only point is that I think it's okay if I do delete comments if I decide someone is being vicious to other folks who comment or if he/she is blatantly trying to derail the conversation.

Well, I didn't mean to stuff so many words on your comments. I appreciate your indulgence! For all the fluff, I think you and I are probably more in agreement than not.
wow, kit, i think you're making trudge's point for him.

first, you argued that there is nothing wrong with closing comments or deleting contentious posts. then you argued that allowing every comment to stand was akin to letting people barge into your living room... but this is common real estate. salon owns open salon, and we're all here at their pleasure. personally, i blog so i can have interesting conversations with strangers, and i do this with the knowledge that i might just get a tongue-lashing... but i would rather have that feedback than feel like i shouted into the void with no criticism.

finally, you whip out the weirdest definition of censorship i've ever heard, "The censorship that does sort of agitate me, though, is when someone asks me a question and then rings me out because I dare to answer it differently than he wants me to."

that ain't censorship friend, that's called discussion.

and that's why i kept coming back to the post. the comments are always my favorite part of any post. if he'd deleted yours, i wouldn't find it nearly as compelling.
Bloggers have the right to censor or delete their posts. If this was unacceptable, OS would restrict the capability. Readers have the right to bypass bloggers with a reputation for censorship. As visitors, we are always free to vote with our views, ratings and comments.

I closed comments (temporarily) on one occasion to all of my posts, because I planned to be away for a while. Someone sent me a PM accusing me of censorship. Otherwise, I’m pretty much an open book. The personal attacks have been minor, but I have had others hijack my post to conduct their personal flame wars (not cool). My personal preference is to leave the trash right where it is, for all to see. It often says more about the visitors than the tenant. For me, it’s simply not that deep. I hang out on OS; but I live in the real world.
this comments closed thing is frustrating but it's not the end of the world. if there were comments I might be able to gleen in all the back and forth who what where and when because I'm a yenta at heart and an enthusiastic pain in the ass innocent bystander (that's Godfather quote)

when I first starting blogging I accidentally deleted myself in error so it's not in my destiny to be an all powerful deleting blog whoring queen.

besides, I've taken to wearing the poet's bonnet. nobody wants to beat up a poet. it's like bitchslapping a mime. you want to, but it's so wrong. so my blog is a nice place. I serve tea and cookies. I say thank you.
"...you want to, but it's so wrong..." Ah, Monkey, you make my heart sing!
For the record:
Censor --"an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds."*

Notice the keywords are "suppressing" and "other grounds".

*Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor
Not at all. People can always post their own rebuttal and reference your post if they want to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with turning of the comments in my opinion. Thanks for bringing up the subject. R.
All, of course on your blog you can do whatever you want, but that does not mean you are not censoring when you close or delete comments. Just like when you tip the register from your own business it is still stealing.
summer bel, ty 4 dropping by.
Spambots, ty 4 visiting my blog. BTW, did U rate it?
rickbass, interesting points.