Ulli K Ryder

Ulli K Ryder
Birthday
August 19
Bio
Ulli K. Ryder, Ph.D. is an award-winning educator, consultant, writer, editor and thinker. She facilitates discussions of gender, race, ethnicity, identity formation and media to foster diversity and create open dialogue.

MY RECENT POSTS

MY RECENT COMMENTS

Editor’s Pick
MARCH 12, 2011 8:37PM

Forget books, carry a gun!

Rate: 10 Flag

I am an educator, a college professor to be exact. I have taught at eight schools in three different states. I do not carry a gun.  My students (I hope) do not carry guns. The biggest problems I face in the classroom are web-surfing and text messaging. This is easily solved – laptops are banned and texters reprimanded and marked “absent.” What would happen if I – or my students – carried concealed weapons?

I tend to teach “hot-button” topics – race, gender, sexual orientation. I often teach to students who take my courses as part of a requirement which means they don’t want to be there and are already hostile to the material (and to me) before we’ve had our first class meeting. All these factors mean that I not only have to teach the material, I have to “win over” the students so that they are open-minded enough to actually learn something.  It is not easy.  Sometimes I fail.

However, as it is now, an upset student has a few options, most of which are non-violent. They can complain to me. They can complain to my boss (the department Chair). They can withdraw from the class.  They can refuse to do the work (and then fail, and then complain to me about it).  I suppose a really, really upset student could lay in wait for me in the parking lot and assault me.  Fortunately, this has never happened and I suspect it is unlikely to in the future.

What my students cannot do is legally carry a weapon on campus and into the classroom and threaten me or their fellow students.  I take great comfort in this fact.  As I mentioned, I teach “hot-button” topics.  The possibility of heated debates, extreme emotions and insults is high. The rule in my classrooms is that we do not have to agree but that we must always be respectful.  But enforcing this among 20 or more teenagers is always a challenge.

For example: I was teaching a course on U.S. settlement and westward expansion to a class in the southwest.  My students were of various races and ethnicities. During a discussion of the annexation of Northern Mexico which gave the U.S. most of the southwest (including the state in which we were holding class), a white American male student told a Mexican American male student to “go back where you came from.” The Mexican American student replied, “I am where I came from – why don’t you get out?” Both students then rose from their seats and cocked their fists, getting ready to fight.  I diffused the situation, we were able to continue class and neither student ever gave me any trouble after that day.  Imagine how differently things might have gone if these students had guns.

The speed at which things can get out of hand is astonishing and the ability to summon help is woefully inadequate.  These young men were no more than three feet away from me but by the time I moved out from behind the lectern and got between them, they were already almost in a brawl.  A quick-drawing student would have fired at least one shot before I could have done anything. And I would not have put myself between two armed students, which would have left the rest of the class vulnerable and in harm’s way. There was no campus phone in this classroom.  Phones are often missing from classrooms which means faculty in trouble must leave the classroom and go to a hallway phone or dial from their own cell phones (which most faculty turn off when they’re teaching).

Many proponents of arming students and teachers believe this is a way to avoid (or respond quickly to) incidents of violence on school campuses.  However, this is a gross misrepresentation of the actual facts.  While mass shootings such as those at Virginia Tech rightfully garner widespread media attention, information compiled by the Department of Justice clearly demonstrates that the greatest danger to young people is posed outside of school: “In each year during the period 1992–93 to 2007–08, there were at least 50 times as many homicides of youth away from school than at school and generally at least 150 times as many suicides of youth away from school than at school.” This data includes the year (2007) of the Virginia Tech shootings – even that tragic event didn’t tip the scales.  Students are still more likely to encounter deadly violence away from school campuses.

Carrying guns in schools is simply a bad idea.  We already know that students are at greater risk off-campus and it is easy to infer that campuses where students are allowed to carry guns are less safe than gun-free campuses.  Danger is not only physical but also mental and emotional.  The threat of deadly violence hampers both students’ and teachers’ abilities to engage in meaningful dialogue. If I knew that my students could pull a gun on me the moment I challenged their preconceived ideas and biases, I would (I’m sad to say) greatly alter my teaching methods.  I may even change the curriculum to avoid the “hot-button” topics altogether.  I may – and I imagine many of my colleagues may – give up teaching for a safer occupation.

Is this the kind of “education” we want for our children and young adults? Perhaps. I do not think it is a coincidence that the “guns in classrooms” legislation is being pushed in states like Texas and Arizona. These states have high non-white (primarily Latino) populations and debates about what the curriculum should include are well-documented. Arizona, for example, has been trying to dismantle Ethnic Studies departments and curricula – precisely the kinds of classes I teach and in which discussions can become highly-charged.  If we allow guns in classrooms, we don’t need legislation banning Ethnic Studies. Most teachers will voluntarily switch to “safer” topics. And those who don’t will face a hostile – and fully armed – classroom.

Author tags:

education, guns, teachers, students

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
student grades will go up...any teacher want to give that guy in the front row that keeps blinking at you an F? It's a nefarious blot by the right wing to show that there is no need for public funding of edcuation. "See, how smart our kids are. They're practically homeschooled."
agree with you! gun advocates overestimate the concept of "detente" vs "heat of the moment"
Agreed. I teach at a university too, and while I'm in a less controversial field we can still get into some heated debates. No way do I want that troublemaker in the back row to be carrying a gun!
And we know that students drink too much. Firearms and alcohol make such a nice combination when the higher cognitive reasoning functions haven't finished developing yet--not!
I am 60 years old and a concealed handgun license instructor in Texas. Many years ago during the Vietnam war, I carried a gun to college. Wasn't 21, didn't have a permit but carried one because the so called peace loving hippies, Black Panthers, SDS and Weathermen were physically assaulting those of us who wanted to serve our country in the Army and Air Force. Two of my best friends were beaten so bad they spent WEEKS in the hospital. Both were beaten with baseball bats, fists, feet and other weapons. I decided this would not happen to me so I started carrying my .45 for protection and I am glad that I did because one day seven of the so called peace loving hippies decided they would teach me a lesson the hard way. What I can't understand was that when I pointed my pistol at the jerk that was the leader decided he wasn't as tough as he thought he was and the whole gang ran off like a bunch of cowards.

I disagree with the professors. First of all, teenagers cannot get a concealed handgun license anyway. You must pass a very strict FBI background check, state check and take training. Most of you don't know the qualifications so you should get more educated.

It is my feeling that everyone should be able to protect themselves anywhere. If you look up the statistics for the state of Texas, (Texas DPS concealed handgun statistics) you will see that those of us who carry are the least likely to committ any crime.

Where will the professors be when someone comes in to do harm to the class? Probably hiding under the desk. Where will the Campus police be when the girl leaving the campus library gets assaulted behind the hedges? Probably at the donut shop or at the other end of the campus! We called them Campus "insecurity" at Colorado State University.

It has been my experience that most campus police officers are people who can't make it at a real police department. When you need one they are always at the other end of the campus. They cannot be with everyone at the same time.

Being that the colleges today as they were when I went to college very liberal I understand why they don't want anyone anywhere to have a gun. It is hard to run rampant over an armed populace.

Colonel Quadafi took the guns and now his people are crying to American to send them some.

Guns on campus? I say yes. I can guarantee that less deaths will occur if they are there than those caused by drugs, alcohol and wild parties now. Those of us that are licensed are subject to a FELONY if we do those things while carrying and if we get arrested if we are not carrying then our CHL is taken away.

Allow guns, require training before allowing to carry on campus.
I couldn't agree more. The answer to gun violence is not more guns.
The best argument I've read on this. Everything you've said makes so much sense. Everything. Thank you for speaking up. Highly rated.
♥R
Your piece make no sense.

You say students are safer on campus than off. How many of your students never leave campus? How many live off campus? They are not limited to your "safe campus". Your students are exposed.

How many fewer people would have died at VT if there had been someone armed in the class room? We will never know. What we do know is that there are schools where violence started and was ended when students went and got weapons from their cars and brought it to an end.

Who is going to protect you from people like the VT shooter or some other crazy, most states you have to give the state permission to check your mental health records so it's not CWP holders who are crazy, person? You say the classrooms don't have phones and you turn your's off. Even if you did have a phone, what is the time difference between someone pulling a gun, firing 30 rounds and the time required for you to call someone, tell them who, what, and where and armed police showing up? You don't have to be quick draw for that.

Not everybody is going to carry. You never will, and that's okay. You don't need 100% of the population to carry. Look at the1987 Florida CWP law. People who would rob someone now have to change their thinking from he is not armed to which one is armed. Even with the predictions of "blood flowing in the street" we find all these years later that didn't happen and in fact crime went down. Maybe some bad guy decided that grandma may not be such an easy target.

Finally, I don't carry all the time anymore. I no longer take large sums of money to the bank night drop. Even when I did carry, I never took my weapon out. I have displayed it to people approaching and the sight of a weapon has make them turn around. Even though I don't carry all the time now, did I carry yesterday or today?
"We already know that students are at greater risk off-campus and it is easy to infer that campuses where students are allowed to carry guns are less safe than gun-free campuses."

You can infer that, but on what is your inference based? There are a number of states that permit concealed carry, so we now have years of data available in order to determine whether concealed carry programs make people less safe. As far as I know there is no such evidence, and in fact, the evidence that I've seen suggests that concealed carry programs actually make people safer.

There have been a number of posts on OS arguing against concealed carry on university campuses. One problem with these posts is that they really are arguments against concealed carry in general, not against concealed carry specifically on campus.

In other words, someone who opposes concealed carry in general will oppose concealed carry everywhere -- streets, stores, theaters, campuses, and everywhere else. What I haven't yet seen is a compelling argument why concealed carry is a bad idea specifically on a campus.

For example, you talk about how students get into heated discussions in class. Well, people get into heated discussions everywhere else in states where there is concealed carry. But there's no evidence that concealed carry makes such heated discussions more dangerous, whether the discussion occurs on the sidewalk, during a traffic accident, in a restaurant, etc.

You say "Students are still more likely to encounter deadly violence away from school campuses." Ok, so what about the student who carries a concealed handgun for self-protection while commuting to the university, based on the fact that he or she is "more likely to encounter deadly violence away from school campuses"? What is the student supposed to do with the handgun when he or she gets to school?

Part of the problem with banning handguns on campus is that in effect, you're also preventing student commuters from carrying guns on the way to campus. Because once they get to campus, they can't have a gun there.

In addition, you're it seems that you're only talking about "teenagers." What about the large number of adult students? Is there a compelling reason why a 50 year old woman shouldn't be able to posses a handgun while taking a night class on campus?
The idea of college students carrying guns is just plain nuts.
I am a retired univ. professor. Armed students are the last ting I would want in my classes! Recently, a handy man was sent home for the day from a public school. He returned with a gun and killed the principal! Given the general immaturity of college students, and their poor preparation by K-12 education, they respond badly to poor test results. There was great pressure from administrators for grade inflation without the threat of students packing heat. Woe be unto the Professor who actually grades according to performance. Perhaps we can replace teachers with anonymous avatars!
I attended the U of Arizona and always lived within a mile of campus. I cannot tell you the number of times I heard gunfire going off (machine guns were popular) or read reports in the school paper of some student being involved in a gun incident, most of which gets down played because schools have their own police and their own police reports. A school with a lot of crime doesn't attract students, so they like to convince girls to not file rape charges and to call shootings accidents instead of what they really are - boys getting into fights and pulling out guns to make a point.
I couldn't agree with you more, Ulli. If the NRA continues to have their way, we'll be issuing guns to infants at birth. Or, how about everyone just have their own personal nuclear weapon in their back yard. That's sure to bring about peace.
I see the arm-bearers couldn't stay away from this. So we get to hear of the well-known violence perpetrated by hippes again right-thinking patriots and what a great deterrent and heavily armed student body would be. Excess drinking and drug use would virtually cease because the law-abiding, right-thinking, pistol-packing students just wouldn't put up with it. So no intoxicated students means no impulsive, unwise gun use. So why not open Charlton Heston U as a social experiment? Geez.
I was a redneck shitkicker who attended University of Cincinnati in 1973 through '76. All long hot summers in the ghetto where I lived in a hippie commune (What can I say, the rent was cheap) Many of the brothers objected to our presence. I carried a pistol when I went out, and often to class. Never really had the need to or felt the desire to shoot anyone. On several occasions, showing I was ready to turned away ones who wanted me out of their hood.

Wouldn't it make more sense to license and train adults eligible for concealed carry than to wonder who is packing heat? The one's who want to carry, do anyway.
I live in a small town with a University. We had a horrible incident, with guns, off campus. No one related to the University was involved... until: One person, an off campus student, heard the shots, grabbed his weapon and set out to be a hero. He was shot. He also left the local lawmen confused as to how many shooters we had involved.
Adding weapons to the situation was a huge turn in the wrong direction. This is experience, not hypothetical.
We also have a bill in Idaho to allow weapons in classrooms on campus.
Do you want to teach here now? Do you want to come here to compete in sports? Do you want to referee our games?
If you need a gun to get through your day, you are in some serious need of therapy, or something, possibly incarceration, to protect the rest of us from your paranoia and over inflated ego.
eastinidaho writes: "We had a horrible incident . . . "

It makes no sense to base policy on a single incident or anecdote. In evaluating a program you have to look at the totality of the program. As I mentioned previously, there are a large number of states that have concealed carry programs, with well over a million permit holders throughout the country. Florida alone has over 600,000 people with concealed carry permits. Many of the states have programs that have existed for years. The data are out there, so there is no need for speculation or single anecdotes.

eastinidaho: "If you need a gun to get through your day, you are in some serious need of therapy, or something, possibly incarceration, to protect the rest of us from your paranoia and over inflated ego."

People who have concealed carry permits do so because they are interested in self-protection. A handgun is the only device that gives a person a ranged defense against a violent attack. By "ranged defense" I mean that the handgun allows you to defend yourself while maintaining a safe distance from an attacker. Other modes of defense (e.g., martial arts, pepper spray, tazers, knives, etc.) either require you to get close to an attacker or are unreliable in their effectiveness.

In the great majority of instances in which a handgun is used in self-defense, the gun is not fired; the mere presence of the gun is sufficient to deter the attack.

There are many people who have no interest in self-defense, either with a handgun or by any other means. That's fine with me, and I hope it works out for them. But it doesn't mean that people who want to protect themselves are somehow irrational.

Rather than basing your opinions on anecdotes, I suggest that you actually attempt to learn the facts.

Abrawang writes: "I see the arm-bearers couldn't stay away from this."

Yes, because on Open Salon most posts on firearms issues are exercises in misinformation, speculation, and guesswork, especially the posts that end up on the cover. The writer of this post, for example, raises some valid concerns, but neglects some very basic facts. Take, for example:

"If I knew that my students could pull a gun on me the moment I challenged their preconceived ideas and biases, I would (I’m sad to say) greatly alter my teaching methods."

What she neglects to mention is that campus handgun bans have absolutely no power to prevent students from bringing handguns on campus. Without metal detectors and body searches she has absolutely no idea whether students have guns with them. This is because, ban or not, anyone can walk into her classroom with a gun. But the passage is written as if bans are some kind of force field, magically keeping guns off of campuses. Ask Seung-Hui Cho how effective campus handgun bans are.
If you are truly a college professor, I'm truly surprised. I thought college professors valued truth and research. You didn't even bother to look up the details of any of the bills that have been proposed to allow college students to carry concealed weapons. Every single bill that I've read (ranging from the recent Florida bill to the Utah bill (which passed over 3 yrs ag0)) doesn't allow "children" to carry guns in class. They allow 21 yr olds with concealed weapons permits to carry guns in class. To get a concealed weapons permit in most states, a person is fingerprinted, has a background check and takes a gun safety class. Utah has had this particular type of law in place since late 2007. There have been no newsworthy incidents.

You shouldn't worry about a law allowing CCW permit holders to have their guns in class. You should worry about are those who ignore the law, and carry guns concealed despite not having a CCW permit and/or a law allowing it.

I hope that you research the information that you teach your classes more than you researched the subject of this blog.
@vzn,

People with concealed carry permits (the only group proposed to be able to carry guns on campus) have been found in studies to commit less violent crimes per capita than police officers. I think most gun control advocates underestimate the ability of most people to control themselves, my theory being because they obviously can't control their own selves, so they assume the rest of us are just as unbalanced.
The key word here is "legally", they cannot legally bring a weapon to class. Unless there are metal detectors and armed guards actually enforcing the regulation, all it does is prevent honest people from having the means to defend themselves. Someone who is intent on doing bad will have no qualms about ignoring that law. In the end, nothing else really matters.