A Simple Conscience

Confronting Socialists with Facts & Logic; Extremists with Scorn

UncleChri

UncleChri
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OCTOBER 18, 2011 10:32PM

A Right Response to a Left Invitation - Socialism 1

Rate: 3 Flag

 

 

Do NOT believe that this image implies the following is a balanced view of socialism vs capitalism 

  
WARNING:  
This image doesn't imply an unbiased view of socialism herein.

 

In PM discussions with several on OS, and one in particular, invitations have been extended for someone to post a brief primer of some beliefs regarding socialism in America.  The objective of this exercise would be to initiate a dialogue among those holding disparate views on this subject.  The nature of this dialogue would be what apparently cannot be captured in the halls of either Congress or most State legislatures. 

 

Unwisely, I have picked up this gauntlet. 

 

Brief though this primer might be, it does not seem practical to cover the entire spectrum of all contemplated sub-topics on this subject in one post.  Therefore, if this first installment does not mention an aspect of American socialism of interest, then please wait for subsequent ones; but enjoy whatever discussions might arise from this submittal. 

 

I am grateful to, and complimented by, all of you who have written.  You know who you are.  I look forward to your views and to our discussion. 

 

Let’s begin. 

 

========

 

Socialism Works!

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."
Edmund Burke - famous Conservative

 

INTRODUCTION

 

Many have serious doubts about the sustainability, efficacy, constitutionality, and general worth of the welfare state.  In America, the welfare state is manifested primarily by entitlement programs wherein a minority of beneficiaries is supported at the expense of general communalism. 

 

========

 

A dictionary, before the Internet  

 

 

Part 1 – DEFINITIONS

 

            Socialism

 

Go to the dictionary and read the element of the definition of ‘socialism’ that mandates government ownership of the means of production.  This will not be the definition of ‘socialism’ used in this primer. 

 

For the purposes of this primer, ‘socialism’ describes a political philosophy that encompasses the use of governmental resources, especially financial, to address perceived social ills, whether or not the government owns the associated means of production. 

 

For example, if ‘homelessness’ is perceived as a social ill and a government uses general tax revenues to subsidize the apartment rent of certain indigent citizens who might otherwise be deemed (by the government) to be without shelter, then, for the purposes herein, this will be considered ‘socialism’, despite the fact that the government will not own the apartment whose rent is being subsidized.  Similarly, if ‘hunger’ is perceived as a social ill and a government provides food stamps to qualifying beneficiaries, then this will be deemed ‘socialism’, even though the government would not own the farms, the distribution systems, the stores, or the products purchased by its  food stamps.  

 

Entitlement Socialism

 

The programs receiving the most attention these days are those in which the beneficiaries qualify under a circumstance such as: age, poverty, homelessness, hunger, unemployment, disability, illness, heritage, widowhood, elderly parenthood with young children, impoverished non-marital parenthood with young children, and various combinations of the foregoing.  Most of these qualifications arise from circumstances most collectivists, socialists, and wealth tranfer advocates would view as unfortunate. 

 

These programs share at least one distinguishing characteristic: each is funded by governmental takings from all for the benefit of providing bank drafts, direct deposits, stamps, funded debit cards, subsidies, or some other form of monetary gift to the few qualified beneficiaries.  Thus, none of these programs collects money in a manner that credits an individual account held exclusively for use by its contributor. 

 

Each is, therefore, like a Ponzi insurance scheme in many respects.  Under the presumption that this type of socialism always fails (see below), each favors the earlier receivers at the expense of later ones.  The obvious corollary to this, especially when inflation is not considered, is that each favors the earlier contributors at the expense of the later ones.  

 

            Non-Entitlement Socialism

 

This section is designed to forestall the nonsensical arguments that arise from those who contend that building highways, electrifying rural areas, constructing levees, erecting hydro-electric power plants, installing potable water treatment plants along with their pressurized distribution systems, and putting in sewer collection systems along with their waste water treatment plants at public expense equates to, and justifies, writing checks to individuals who qualify under the narrow guidelines of focused entitlement programs. 

 

For those of you inclined to argue in this vein, please take a moment to meditate upon what an intellect capable of rational and logical thought is supposed to do.  We will all be grateful for every effort you put into thinking about non-entitlement socialism so as not to burden the subsequent debate with distracting irrelevancies. 

 

Please understand that, in addition to the vast differences in the global benefit of highway construction, rural electrification, etc., versus the local benefit of subsidized rent for an indigent citizen, for example, there are also vast differences in the manner in which legislatures fund these different types of socialism and in the manner in which waste, fraud, and abuse, common to both forms, impacts our society. 

 

Thank you.

 

========

 

Socialism - A great idea until you run out of other people's money.  

 

 

Part 2 – THE SUSTAINABILITY OF ENTITLEMENT SOCIALISM

 

            Three Economic Reasons for the Failure of Entitlement Socialism

 

Historically, entitlement socialism, left unchecked, collapses under its appeal both to human sloth and to the temptation that it provides elected officials to purchase the votes of the unfortunate through the expansion of its benefits.  Both of these factors contribute to ever increasing numbers of beneficiaries of programs often formed with the opposite intent of decreasing, or eliminating, them. 

 

Moreover, the welfare state is least affordable during the times it is needed most.  All governments depend upon revenues whose availability is related to the vitality of their associated economy.  During economic distress, the financial resources of governments decrease while the demands on the welfare state increase.  This is a “double tap” in the language of New York City mobsters and Navy SEAL teams.

 

Finally, the collectivist funding schemes for entitlement programs are generally characterized by investment fraud:  The healthy pay for those who are ill and are not credited in a proportional, time-weighted, manner for their contributions to their own accounts.  Workers pay for those who are retired and are credited in a non-proportional way for their contributions albeit not in their individual accounts.  Those who are sheltered subsidize the rent of those who are not and are not saving for themselves in anticipation of times when they cannot meet their mortgage or rent payments . . . and so on.  When demographics unfavorable to the economic structure of entitlement programs manifest themselves, then such programs fail in the same way that all Ponzi schemes do. 

 

            The Consequences of Unchecked Entitlement Socialism Failure

 

The USSR was the ultimate socialist experiment – an industrialized, centrally planned economy that couldn’t adapt to the weather, much less changing economic realities.  It was the worker’s paradise, where, theoretically, each gave according to his ability and each received according to his need; where each was entitled to, and expected, cradle-to-grave care by the government.  Its duration (from 1922 to 1991), was only 69 years; and its collapse was clearly an economic implosion in conjunction with problems associated with domestic and foreign unrest. 

 

Greece, a country whose citizens never heard of an entitlement program they didn’t favor, coupled with a government that rarely denied honoring this stupidity, has been bumping along recently, seemingly in a perpetual state of impending insolvency.  The greed of Grecian entitlement program collectivists has not only mortgaged current contributors but also mortgaged the descendant contributors via government borrowing. 

 

Further, little Greece, by virtue of its inability to pay its debt and by virtue of its inclusion in the Euro Zone, has threatened the value of the currency of financially viable countries like Germany.  Greece, thereby, puts many others at risk, including current and future retirees in Germany, including those who import goods to Germany from outside the Euro Zone, and including those who wish to travel outside the Euro Zone. 

The demographic problem in Greece is, perhaps, the most significant contributor to the failure of its entitlement socialism.  For several generations, there have been insufficient kids or grandkids to screw over.  Greece currently has a fertility rate of about 1.3: 10 grandparents have six children between them.  These six children have four grandchildren between them - i.e., the family tree is upside down.   

The bad news is that demographers call 1.3 “lowest-low” fertility - the point from which no society has ever recovered.  The worse news is that, compared to Spain and Italy, Greece has the least worst fertility rate in Mediterranean Europe.   

(By the way, you don’t have to go to Greece to experience Greek-style retirement.  The Athenian “public service” of California has been metaphorically face-down in the ouzo for a generation.  The feckless, insatiable boobs in Sacramento have driven their State to the same dam over which the Grecian ship is now sailing, and they have the budget and debt problems to prove it.) 

My brother-in-law is from Cuba.  Cuba is a giant . . . . pothole into which 1940’s and 1950’s era cars drive and break their suspensions.  However, it does have free healthcare.  

These examples, as they say, are endless.  Here is what also is said, “Those who don’t know history are bound to repeat it.” 

Therefore, let’s be clear.  The general, inevitable, consequence of unchecked entitlement socialism is national financial bankruptcy. 

 

            What Motivates the Debate about Socialism

 

Perhaps it is this sub-topic of entitlement socialism sustainability that most closely correlates with the motivation to debate this form of welfare in America today.  It is likely that only the obtuse will fail to understand why debate over entitlement programs arises in the context of our national debt crisis.  We have reached a point where:

 

Yet, time and energy is wasted debating certain aspects of America’s welfare state that are undeniably fact.  For example, debate is totally unnecessary on the topic of whether entitlement program reform will occur.  This reform cannot now be avoided, nor could it ever have been avoided.  It is inevitable; and it always was.  Entitlement reform will occur with or without further discussion; and it will occur whether the national government acts, or fails to act. 

 

Thus, without advocating, much less doing, anything, welfare reform . . . significant reform . . . will soon occur in America, just as it has now been thrust upon Greece. 

 

The only questions worth answering regarding on-going entitlement sustainability are those related to the quality and quantity of such reforms.  Whatever the nature of such changes, they were made necessary on the day the associated entitlement programs were established. 

========

OK. 

The next post will comment on the efficacy, or lack thereof, of entitlement socialism as well as its constitutionality. 

In the meantime, let's think, then chat. 

Did Jesus really preach socialism? 

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Go to my latest blog. I'm working on a response right now, and you should be able to read it by October 19th at the latest.
ONL,

Help yourself. I am eager to read what you have to say. . . . However, if you comment in areas outside sustainability, then you are ahead of the game. . . .

In anticipation,


Chris
First, let's point out that social security and Medicare recipients are entitled to their payments because they paid into the system. They are health insurance and a pension plan. You may argue that they are not well-run, but they are very different from welfare.

So, that means your statistic about half of American families receiving some benefit is bunk. Sure, many families are invested in Gov't insurance and pension plans.

Unless we are willing to let the unlucky starve in the gutter, we need a safety net. Sure, there are some people who abuse it, but private insurance can not insure against a healthy, hardworking person who is, say, struck by a hit-and-run drunk driver and severely physically and mentally handicapped. Pension plans can, and sometimes do, go bankrupt. When the steel mills were dying, thousands of workers lost their retirement savings.

Charity, too, is least affordable when it is most needed and there is no mechanism to ensure that it covers the need.

But ultimately, these protections protect you, too. At present, the uninsured casualty who shows up in the emergency room is paid for by those of us who have health insurance. Their care is rolled into the hospital's overhead.

Unemployment benefits often save jobs, by allowing people who have lost their jobs to continue to function economically, until, hopefully, they are able to earn their own living. They can continue to pay their taxes, pay their mortgages, buy groceries, etc.

Your comparison with the Soviet Union and Greece is not particularly apt, as Greece fudged the criteria for entering the Euro (and "Fiscally viable" countries like Germany accepted the obvious fudge) and then getting access to credit at rates earned by countries like Germany.

The Soviet Union certainly didn't collapse under the weight of its far-from-generous social services. Single party, undemocratic dictatorships produce really lousy governments, but that's not a lesson that has much relevance to the discussion of what safety net America should offer its citizens.
There will be someone calling for socialism for as long as there exists brain damage.

"Duuaah, Karl Marx said..."
Have you read "The Vision of the Anointed" by Sowell? I am rereading it now and he covers several of the government experiments - for example The War on Poverty- and demonstrates its negative effects most delightfully.

Give it a whirl if you haven't read it. Sounds like something you'd enjoy. Rated.
Ah, you gotta love that "Soviet Union collapsed because they didn't do socialism right" twist.

It's cute -------in a disturbing way.
No, I didn't imply that socialism would have worked if the Soviet Union had done it better. My point was the collapse of the Soviet Union wasn't caused by its particularly stingy entitlements and decidedly lacking concern for the welfare of its citizens.

I don't think anyone living in the former SU has many delusions about socialism.

And, as a side point, Russia is remarkably well adapted to the weather. Washington DC is paralyzed by a fraction of the snowfall Moscow sees regularly.
@ Malusinka,

First, thanks for reading and commenting.

Second, you wrote:

“ . . . . social security and Medicare recipients are entitled to their payments because they paid into the system.”

This is false. Please see Flemming vs Nestor, a Supreme Court case on this point decided in 1960.

Third, because of the fact housed in this second point and the fact that my reference is the Wall Street Journal, I would be careful what you call “bunk”. Your readers may conclude that you are in an advanced state of denial, as many communists in the USSR were before its collapse.

Fourth, it is certainly also true that private charity would be, and is, more needed in times of economic stress. However, a point that I will make, in a future installment, about local private charity is that it is always more cost effective, always more adaptable, and always more tailored to local needs than governmental welfare is, especially when compared to that provided at the federal level.

It is a socialist canard to draw out the specter of the unfortunate dying in the gutter, on the streets, in the alleys, or . . . at whatever location the fear you seek to instill works best. It would be interesting to read your proof for this, by the way.

Fifth, as to the rest of your claims about connections to the failures of socialism in the USSR and Greece not being apt and the USSR not imploding because of an economic collapse caused by the socialism that it could not afford, I stand by what I wrote.

Nevertheless, thanks for being here.

========

@ Spumey,

Funny . . . “brain damage”. . . .

Thanks for reading and commenting!

========

@ Barbara Joanne,

Thanks for the book recommendation and the PMs . . . .

Being “bold” here simply means leaving oneself open to criticism. My hope was that this would cause some to depart from dogma . . . but . . . alas.

========

@ To all others who PMed me,

I understand why many of you do not wish to post your comments here. However, I encourage independent thought; and I encourage those who think independently to put their thinking on display.

Don’t be shy.

========

@ ONL

I knew this was a bad idea.

Nevertheless, I will respond to your article here, in these comments; and then write another installment and put it up as another post . . . .

My hope would be that those who believe and think as you do would respond here, instead of your own posts; but, of course, you may do as you wish.

In any event, some interesting responses, no matter what the venue.
@ ONL

Of course, yours was the invitation that finally convinced me to write of some concerns regarding American socialism. It seems certainly to have been a bad idea to accept this invitation on my part.

Nevertheless, the problems with American socialism will be the focus of this series. This point was made clear in the introduction.

On average, the term “American” is connected with ‘welfare’, or ‘socialism’, every 213 words in this initial installment. Consequently, the hope was that no one would mistake this for a peace on socialism in general.

In fact, I won’t be debating socialism in general. I won’t mention other forms unless it is in the context of applicable examples underlining my criticism of the American model, or in the context of recommending solutions to the problems with the American model, or in the context of answering responses such as yours, which have dragged in other forms (apparently) to bolster an argument that socialism can work in our country.

My hope is that you didn't want to have a debate about socialism in general. The only problems with socialism that seem relevant are those associated with the welfare state of our country. Correct?

=========

Nevertheless, since you mentioned the Nordic model of socialism in your piece, perhaps we should discuss how it differs from the American one in an effort to illuminate why socialism seems to work better there than here. This might be instructive.

First, the overall tax burdens of the countries which have implemented the various forms of Nordic socialism are some of the highest in the world. For example:

• Sweden = 51.1% of GDP
• Finland = 43.3% of GDP

This compares to countries that have not implemented the Nordic model:

• Germany = 34.7% of GDP
• Canada = 33.5% of GDP
• America = 23.6% of GDP

No good polemicist would leave this point without noting that Sweden, the archetype of the Nordic socialist model, has an overall tax burden nearly twice as high as we have in America. Further, no good debater would fail to mention how much resistance Americans have recently expressed to taxing themselves beyond their current levels, not to speak of matching the acceptance by the Swedish of taxes.

Second, Swedish public spending is 56.6% of GDP; and more than a third of Sweden’s work force is employed by government. In America, federal public spending is slightly less than 20% of GDP. (This isn’t an exact comparison because the Swedish number includes all public expenditure, while the one quoted for America only includes national spending. I am tired and hurried here; and I can’t seem to find a reliable source for an exact comparison.)

In America only 14.1% of the workforce is employed in the public sector. (This, however, is an 'apples-to-apples' comparison)

Again, these represent huge differences in the welfare states. Moreover, even our current president, socialist that he is, echoes the refrain that an American economic recovery will occur out of the private sector, not the public one.

However, what is perhaps more interesting on this topic is that Sweden’s socialist economy, during its ‘Golden Age’, burdened its exportation of goods and services to the extent that the music group ABBA was its largest exporter, exceeding even Volvo, during several years of the band’s existence between 1972 and 1982. This occurred at the end of the post-war ramp-up of Sweden’s Nordic social democratic model.

By the mid-1990’s, Sweden’s socialism was significantly reduced from its glory days. Major cuts had been made.

Sweden remains a ‘universalist’ welfare State, albeit one much decreased from its glory days. Nevertheless, please keep in mind that the statistics quoted above, relative to GDP, are current numbers. Thus, they represent what it takes to maintain the social democratic society in Sweden today, even in its reduced state.

========

What I have often found of much greater interest, however, are the differences in some of the details of Nordic socialism when compared to our form of socialism. For example, feature what it takes to qualify for unemployment benefits in America. In most cases, the beneficiary must show two things. First, that he was involuntarily terminated and, second, that he currently is unemployed. Once such proof is produced, then unemployment benefits are, eventually, granted and disbursed under most federal and State unemployment rules and regulations.

Not so in most Nordic models!

In Sweden, before you can even receive the first Kroner of their unemployment benefit, you must prove that you ARE WORKING at least three hours per day. No shit! You gotta BE WORKING to collect unemloyment benefits in Sweden!

Now, I don’t know what this ‘work’ entails. Since every third job in Sweden is a government job, it may be that it’s easy to obtain part-time public work to satisfy this requirement. Alternatively, simply claiming you work three hours per day looking for work may also be work, so to speak. Perhaps, working on your Uncle Swen’s farm milking cows for room and board is work that qualifies. Who knows?

What's important here is that you must be working in order to collect unemployment benefits in Sweden. No, kidding!

Beyond this, you are OBLIGATED to be ready to accept work that is offered AND be officially registered as a job seeker for public work. You must also be:

• actively seeking work,
• prepared to travel long distances to work, and
• able and willing to relocate, or willing to be retrained.

In addition, the unemployment benefit associated with these conditions is REDUCED in the event the job from which the beneficiary was terminated was less than full-time.

WTF! INCREDIBLE!

Further, in Sweden, but not in America, a component of unemployment benefits is based on the beneficiary’s past employment record and his compensation therefor. This portion of the benefit cannot be collected unless the beneficiary:

• qualifies under the ‘basic’ conditions mentioned above,
• has been a member of an unemployment insurance group for at least 12 months,
• has worked at least six continuous months prior to making the unemployment claim for at least 80 hours per month.

Generally, a new worker will not even be able to join an unemployment benefit group until he has worked for at least four weeks, for at least 17 hours per week. At that point, his application may be evaluated for five additional weeks before it is granted. This implies that most new workers won’t be able to even qualify for unemployment for more than 14 or 15 months and, even then, not unless their work is more than half-time, approximately.

STUPENDOUS!

Perhaps you will recall my criticism of American-style welfare related to “. . . . human sloth. . .”? Even the Swedes seem to be in agreement with this aspect regarding the potential pitfalls of this particular brand of welfare. . . .

=========

OK, I will end this response here; and I will address whatever other issues may be of interest in your post later. However, Buddy, I am going to post another comment to you tonight.
@ ONL

It is certainly acceptable to bring Nordic socialism into this debate for the purposes of illustrating your beliefs regarding American socialism. What is out-of-bounds here is either a debate on socialism in general, or a standard OS-quality debate whose level of detail approaches the hand waving argument “Socialism is good because it works in Sweden!”

I admit that the initial rounds of almost any debate are more general than subsequent rounds. This is because each round serves to define more narrowly the issues of the next.

What I look for in this debate with you, and some others, is more clearly defining the areas in which the reformed American welfare state should operate. As with others who have communicated with me on this topic, I will go almost anywhere you want to go in this debate as long as I feel that we are doing a service to the readers.

What I am hoping for here is a debate corralled within the confines of relevant, specific facts, which are often explicitly stated, coupled with rational logic and common sense. I am sure that you will let me know if I have disappointed you in this regard.

The ultimate focus here is on what it will take to improve America socialism, if it (take your pick) is to survive. This is not a matter where I believe that I am either infallible or entirely knowledgeable. That’s why I want to read what you have to write on this matter, because I believe you, and most of the others who have expressed an interest here, to be intelligent and informed citizens.

It’s just that my tolerance for fools on this site is nearing its end. I have had enough of my stalker from Tulsa, for example. He’s not worth the time it takes to read him, much less for the time it would take to respond.

I’m in no hurry here. Not for you, or any other interested debater. My preference is that we all take our time to read and understand and cogitate, before we start tapping on our keyboards.
Stalker from Tulsa?
Face it, Chris. You're not nearly as intelligent as you think you are, and couldn't handle any form of debate with me. I've had better byotches to kick around.
You're a dime a dozen half wit ideologue spouting the same unstudied garbage. Please, do go where you can be seen as something you aren't.

For example of utter insipid moronosity, Flemming vs Nestor was a deported alien communist claiming he was owed his SS because while here, he had paid into the system. The SS law has a clause about not applying to deported alien communists.

Only a total airhead simpwit would translate that into "You don't have a right to SS payments."

Seriously, that's friggin' stupidity beyond description, as much as I have tried.

Run along, you insulting, condescending ball of blowhard BS. You're an intellectual nobody.
Thank you very much for your insightful comments on Sweden, etc. It's clear that you have a much more detailed examination of Scandanavia than I have. So you've highlighted some of the very basic problems that Sweden et. al. face.

After having posted my comments on socialism, I considered that I should have talked more about welfare and entitlement, as after all, I think we both agree that these code words have much more relevance to American society than socialism. Too often conservatives talk about socialism without understanding fully what this term means. But welfare and entitlement are much more hot button words.

Either I or Robert Young will respond with an essay on these words more fully. However, I do want to say a few things about these words as far as what they really mean for the USA.

In one of my comments on my post, I talked about lemon socialism, whereby the government bails out institutions like banks and auto companies that are too big to fail, whereas any small business owner in America is pretty much left out on the line to dry when he/she gets in trouble.

But the concept of lemon socialism goes much deeper than that in America. For example, because the superrich and multinationals have the wherewithal to hire lobbyists, they can get special exemptions and preferential treatment through the tax code. Thus, these special interest groups pay substantially less in taxes than small businessmen.

On top of this, they have the resources to invest anywhere in the world. Since they're trying to maximize their rate of return even on traditionally productive investments like factories, the Third World and up and coming countires in Asia offer much better rates of return than old fashioned investments in the USA.

The Republicans are right. The superrich and multinationals are job creators, only they're creating jobs in places like India and Indonesia. Forget about the USA, except as a financialization platform. The one area of the domestic economy where it still appears to be profitable overall is the defense industry, with its cost-plus contracts.

Thus, the US continues to devote much of its tax resources towards maintaining a fairly parasitic defense industry. Meanwhile, all areas of the domestic economy continue to be squeezed by revenue constraints. And the resistance towards rejiggering the nation's tax structure even back to pre-Bush standards is decried. Yes, anti Obama sentiment is part of it. But also, the fact that the lobbyist culture of Washington, DC almost guarantees that special interests will be rewarded at the expense of the 99%.

One of the reasons why Scandanavia has such a robust set of entitlements and welfare along with such a healthy infrastructure is that it spends so little on defense. One of the reasons why the anti-tax rhetoric has so much resonance with ordinary people is that they see no concrete improvements in their lives as a result of paying taxes.

If the US could scale back its military commitments substantially while even maintaining the current level of taxation, we might be amazed at what a difference there might be for all of us. Suddenly, the government could substantially expand all levels of welfare and entitlements, while at the same time having more prosperity and a more balanced budget.

More will be heard from me and/or Robert Young soon.
@ONL,

I appreciate your response here.

We are still talking past each other somewhat, with my initial post emphasizing "entitlement" socialism on which our federal government spends $2.3 trillion per year. Your post and responses seem to emphasize the socialism in which we indulge to save our "too big to fail" entities and what we spend on defense (a little more than $800 billion budgeted each of the last three years)

To me the bigger problem would seem to be the one associated with the multi-trillion dollar expenditure. However, there is no doubt that our federal government wastes much money and that such disbursement inefficiencies are not limited to its efforts to socialize the losses of our lynch pin industries, to fund our military efforts, or to provide our brand of governmental charity.

I will post my next installment in a week or so. In the meantime, I look forward to your responses, and most all others interested in this topic.
The Soviet Union is not an apt comparison because the state owned all land and industry. Private enterprise was outlawed. Not at all germane to arguments over the generosity (or lack thereof) of US social programs. In fact, the Soviet Union is mostly used as a boogey man. Fear of boogeymen makes for really bad policy.

A much more apt comparison is the UK, which has a capitalist system and a democracy --- and National Health care. Sure, the UK is under stress, as we are, for having ramped up spending in good times and not putting away a cushion for the downturn, but it's not in any danger of collapse.

And neither is Social Security. It can be brought back into balance with some tweaks, as Mitt Romney has pointed out. Further, I hardly think Nestor and Flemming, makes your point. It was litigating the rights of a non-citizen who was deported from the US, a special case which hardly detracts from the broad understanding of social security as a pension plan.

And as for the Wall St. Journal, it really went down hill since Murdoch bought it. I let my subscription lapse and read the Financial Times instead.

Now to get to the "canard" about people dying in the gutter. My point was that if someone has no insurance and can't afford care, either he dies or someone else pays for him. There are no other choices.

The system we have now, is that the uninsured person gets treated and the costs are rolled into the hospital overhead and charged to paying patients. It results in a hidden tax. Economically, there isn't much difference in the hospitals charging you this tax and the gov't.

Please don't pretend charity can step in. My aunt was a doctor in a clinic treating the poor and uninsured. The clinic was always struggling to meet their costs, and they got state subsidies as well as charitable donations. Charity is not a reliable answer.
Thanks for this wonderful information. Well done. To some who commented about the great USSR and its generousity, I have a number of its former citizens who would like to dispute your thoughts. What you may have read and what actually happened are two tragically different things. My one friend could tell you stories that would curl, straighten and recurl your hair. Don't believe for one nano-second that the USSR was a great place to live. Even those in control lived in fear. We in this country do not live with the fear of being hauled off for what we say or write. We don't have to speak in whispers, nor do we have to be afraid to trust those to whom we speak. Remember that socialism is the step prior to communism. No one who lived it ever calls it a good life.