Sonya Unrein

Sonya Unrein
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Denver, Colorado,
Birthday
April 20

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APRIL 26, 2009 9:37AM

Peggy Noonan, Past and Present

Rate: 19 Flag

Interesting how vehement she was in 1998 for airing & punishing pecadillos, and how vehemently she puports to care for "the good of the country" now by opposing torture prosecutions.

 "Do you respect the president?" The real question is, "Do you think he has any respect for us?"...I think he showed with a chilling finality last week that he does not...The problem is that he thinks people will believe anything, that if he says a thing it is true. He absorbs his lies, and becomes them. The country suffers for this...In the therapeutic language he favors, an intervention would seem to be in order. That would be impeachment, for the high crime and misdemeanor of having no respect for his office, for his country, and for its people."

Peggy Noonan on Clinton/Lewinsky, WSJ, First Published 9/14/1998

"Hearings, especially, would likely tear up the country as we descended into opposing camps...It is hard to believe hearings, with grandstanding senators playing to the crowd, would not descend into an auto-da-fé, a public burning of sinners, with charges, countercharges, leaks and graphic testimony. This would be a self-immolating exercise that would both excite and inform America’s foes. And possibly inspire them..Absent that, a commission is better than a public prosecutor with an endless prosecution, and a public prosecutor is better than congressional hearings. Really, almost anything would be better than that."

Peggy Noonan on the future of Bush Torture policy, WSJ, Published April 24,  2009

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gall, hypocricy, peggy noonan

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I'm not advocating a public burning of sinners. Honest!
What I find especially ironic about Republicans arguing against investigations and trials is the implied but rarely stated threat: "You know that our side would trash the place if you tried this." Yes, we all know that--you're a big part of the problem, Peggy.
I think she's right about one thing, though unintentionally. I think it would be inspiring across the world for a host of reasons, the main one would be the recognition of an attempt to return to honor, truth and leading by example.

I cringe every time I hear her voice on NPR and wonder why she accorded such deference giving the history of what has come out of her mouth
Peggy Noonan is and has always been a mediocre writer of fiction and an abominable judge of character -- including her own.
Finding specific evidence of hypocrisy is like a delicious dessert: SWEET!
It's weird, but the comment of mine that I can clearly see on your post doesn't show up in my "My Recent Comments" section. Hmmm.
Noonan is deplorable. Yet another example of the right wing and Beltway media taking care of its own.
Situational ethics at its best. monkey fingered.
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that there would be hypocrisy in politics!

(And some are a lot more hypocritical than others.)
That Ms. Noonan is a wiley one. Thanks for your comments, everyone.
Noonan's moral compass came out of a Cracker Jack box. The hypocrisy is like nails scratching a chalk board.
PN is a ______, and full of ___ and ___. She is particularly loathsome to me because anyone with such a facile mind, so well-read, KNOWS she is full of crap.

She loves the entourage in the media and at Republican events, and the book sales, more than she loves our democracy and the truth. Tied with Cheney and Rove for deserving 10,000 hrs of Community Service.
Congressional hearings, public trials, commission. All of the above.
She's as smart as she thinks. Herein lies the problem.
Noonan's downward political and personal trajectory should remind all here that writers risk madness when words, and not the realities they represent, become the end. Her tenure as Reagan's speechwriter (later coining Bush41's nonsensical "a thousand points of light") taught her to divorce meaning from logic, the better to make political language a conduit for manipulation through wishful thinking.

She became an excellent propagandist. These latter-day aberrations of hers merely make manifest the logical extension of her original sell-out.
I'm not sure myself how vigorously we should pursue punishment, and for which guilty parties, but I'm CERTAINLY having a problem with ALL these Republican appologists who can't "turn the page" on torture fast enough, when they belabored Clinton's blow job all the way through W.'s first term. But maybe it's just me. Noonan pretty much makes me want to puke in most situations.
What's the point here? I don't see any inconsistency here, Peggy wants punishment when the offender is a Democratic President but not when it's a Republican. It's the same as when Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson said during the Clinton/Lewinsky matter that "perjury is perjury" and Clinton should be prosecuted. Then, when Scooter Libby was indicted for perjury, she complained that he was being unfairly victimized for a "perjury technicality."

It's all perfectly understandable from the perspective of moral relativism - if I agree with/support the person who did something, let it go. If I don't, then that person should be held accountable.
Peggy Noonan's pretentiousness is second only to the drooling deference given her by show hosts like Matthews, Scarberry et. al. Along with unexciting, explicitly biased 'old turds' like William Saffire, she should just 'fade away' like one of her likely heroes, Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Why don't they do the nation a favor and just retire to a secluded home somewhere financed by their republic conservative robber barons and swim in their nostalgia of Reagan, Nixon, Goldwater and the like? Or better still, watch reruns of Chaplain on the silent screen and do likewise. Thank you.
Why is that we are still surprised that republican pundits walk on both sides of the street at once? They are all so eager for justice when it is the other party in the dock but they have convenient amnesia when republicans are caught doing something they shouldn't.
Sometimes I think this is related to the Republicans deep-seated hatred of anything remotely sexual - such as the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal. Always astonished me how loud they screamed about that and not about the lies which got us into war or any of the other atrocities.

Sometimes I think this is nothing more than partisan-bickering, regarding people who have put into frames that anything on their side is fine and anything on the other side is foul.

In Peggy Noonan's case, though, I simply feel she does for BS what Stonehenge does for rocks. Strange she has become the voice for intelligent conservatism.
Thanks for the comparison between Clinton's and Bush's actions. It is quite a perspective. The entire news media, blogosphere, and likely world opinion is focused on us at this time. It is not a revelation that the US was engaged in illegal and immoral activities for the past 8 years; but as a nation we are engaged in a huge self correction to find our moral compass and again become a leader in freedom and democracy. Until we do this, we cannot regain our former position at the head of the table of nations. Torture is just one of the many issues we must solve, albeit a highly visible and brutal one.
And people like Peggy Noonan call US "moonbats"?

Our dear Peggy here is a perfect example of a conservative moonbat.
"He absorbs his lies and becomes them." Yes, and Peggy Noonan should know because she does this to perfection. Let's see. A blow job is a high crime; torture is dismissable as it might "excite" our foes. Methinks that Peggy has her sexual metaphors mixed up!
RenaissanceLady writes, "Strange she has become the voice for intelligent conservatism."

Heh ...
Along with the speeches she wrote for Reagan, she is history. She waxes on and on and has a selective conscience, as do all "conservative" Republicans, blowing with the wind, occasionally, to separate herself from them if the majority on the dais with her disagree. History.
Just let it go people. Obama was correct at FIRST when he was going to leave it alone, but he was cold cocked by his progressive "friends" from MoveOn and the like and has capitulated in a too-cute-by-half scenario.

They are out of office. It is over. Clinton should not have been impreached given lying about sex does not rise to a high crime or misdemeanor as discussed by the founders in the federalist papers. It should not have happened. That the far right clamored for it does not, by definition, make it fair and reasonable to seek to pursue public officials acting in good faith once out of office.

Treasury cannot get decent people to step forward based on the populist cabal bitching about Wall Street. If you want to make it even more impossible to get people to step forward to serve, then keep fanning the flames of partisan retribution.

This is precisely the kind of shit that has got to stop.
Peg Noonan is extremely afdectatious, I have tried to close my eyes & listen, to no avail. She is completely lacking in objectivity and displays herself as an opportunist. Probably the total lacking of openmindness and Independent thinking makes her just another Republican sheeple. I have no longer any desire to support Republicanism in America. The party is defunct, disgusting and devoid of clear thinkers.
Good old Peggy is the same as Bush Limbaugh without the shouting and wild arm waving antics. Old Peggy's attempt at the sweetness of sophistication on the Stephanopoulos show came over as a caricature performance of Greta Garbo. In the past when Old Peggy was selling her Reagan book on talk shows, i noted every time she mentioned Ronald Reagan she would cross her legs and lean forward. I had the impression that she was extremly orgasmic when she said Ronald.
Politicians lie? What a surprise.
Under: It's extremely important to do what you've done -- checking an influential pundit's current position against her or his past declarations. It makes it more possible to hold them accountable and raises justified, fact-based questions about their integrity.
Jeremiah: The difficulty with that assertion happens to be that it establishes that folks cannot change their minds about things. Over the years I have flipped on gay marriage to support it. I have moderated my position on abortion. I remain confused about gun control as I still can't figure out the 2nd's true intent, and on and on and on. Lots of good, honest people were against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 who were not racist, but rather a firm believer in states rights, which can also get mocked in the wrong surroundings.

With respect to special prosecutors and the like, eat party has now been bitten by them, so perhaps now they will die a slow death. They drag down the governing process and were a feral reaction to the excesses of watergate, but have they really benefitted the process? Now, old Peggy may be playing fast and loose with the particulars, but that would not put her in very select company among the partisan punditocracy out there.
There have been some excellent points made here and I'm sorry I don't have time today to address everyone (we're moving!) but I did want to say to Gwool that sure, Peggy could have changed her mind about things, but wouldn't it have been more intellectually honest to say, You know, in retrospect I made a big error in my judgment about the Clinton impeachment, and because of the lessons we've learned about divisive trials, I now know something similar, even for crimes that were much more egregious than Clinton's "lack of respect" for America, we shouldn't go down that path." But I doubt she will ever say why she changed her mind, if that is indeed the case. I think it's much more likely that she just hates anyone left of herself and can't discern.