zanelle

zanelle
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Alpine, California, United States
Birthday
December 07
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I am here in cyberspace trying to understand the true nature of reality. My artwork can be seen in the blog link below. http://suzannesmith0.wix.com/stucco-by-zanelle#!home/mainPage

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JANUARY 16, 2013 2:45AM

So What if Gun Control Makes Some People Mad?

Rate: 14 Flag

   "Might as well ban automobiles.   They can be used to kill lots of people at once.  You could just drive into a bus and overturn it."

    "I thought you were a Liberal?"

     "I am."

      "Then how can you be against gun control?"

       "More control isn't going to solve the problem and it is just going to make a lot of people mad."

      "That sounds like far right thinking to me."

        I really think it is time for the country to stop being held hostage to a minority of people who think assault rifles are just fine to have in your home closet.  Any discussion about gun control needs to start with guns.  We can get lost in all the details but guns that spray lots of bullets quickly need not be readily available to anyone.

        Some survivalists will argue that when the end days come they will need assault rifles to defend their homes.  But what will happen when they run out of their big magazines? That will happen rather quickly as the hoards take over the towns and hungry people  annihilate each other.

       We better learn to live in peace and help each other before the apocalypse.   There are other ways to control violent random shootings.  Better mental health intervention?  Guards in schools?  People with guns standing guard everywhere.....just in case.  That sounds like a horrible way to live.

         Stockpiling guns is something people are doing all over our country.  That makes me want to get away from here.  Who are all these shooters?   They must think they are good upstanding people who have no intention of doing a mass shooting.  Im sure the mother of the boy who took her assault rifle and shot all the children in the school thought she was perfectly justified in having that weapon in her house. 

        Civilization requires regulation.  I agree that the government gets carried away sometimes.  But this ban on assault weapons and a clear message to register all fire arms and ban mentally ill people from getting hold of guns is a good idea.   Felons do not need to have a gun in their closets.  I do not need a gun in my closet.

       I have no idea what I would do if there was a war or terrible collapse of our world.   My day to day routine is very peaceful.  Maybe I am living in a pink cloud but there is one thing I don't care about and that is making the gun people mad.  Congress. Rep. Steve Stockman, R-Texas, is now vowing to try to impeach Obama if he takes any action via executive order.

They want us to think that it will start a civil war.  I think it might just be the road to peace.

 

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It WILL start a civil war. Not about guns, but about the arrogance of a bitterly and barely re-elected president who has decided he can now rule as King.

He is expressly forbidden by Law from attempts to promulgate his ideas as "Rules", as Laws. Checks and Balances, division of powers and all that stuff. Not just on guns, but on the power of the purse- who pays for his "visions?".

He is counting on the support of people who do not understand the very carefully set limits of his power. His attempts to enforce his dictates by the power of armed federal agents will be met with the resistance of armed state, local, and individual CITIZENS- armed, not for Hunting, but for resistance to exactly this kind of dictatorial tyranny and takeover of our democracy. That makes us VERY Mad-as it should you.
I agree with you Zanelle and now that I read in the media that these gun lovers think Sandy Hook was a hoax to stop the gun control it kills me.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/16/sandy-hook-truthers-claim-newtown-school-massacre-a-hoax-to-spur-gun-control-measures/
Civil war? Not likely. I don't see that happening at all. Every single state benefits from being part of this Union. If one or several want to go their own way, if they could muster enough silliness and military might to accomplish it, they would be forever dimished and threatened because of it. They would be vulnerable to the U.S., Canada, Mexico, China, England, France, who knows how many more powerful militaries and economies. They'd have almost no standing in the U.N. Their citizens would have very tough lives domestically and internationally. If you think a hot war of arms is bad, wait until you see a cold war of banking, treaties, trade agreements, travel restictions, etc. It would be the North American North Korea, and for what? For the ability to keep an assault rifle? Nah, not gonna happen.

And as for the President having been "barely re-elected", this term has no constitutional significance whatsoever. The U.S. presidency is not rationed out based upon the size of the election return. if so, what authority does Mitt Romney have in executive or legislative agenda? That number you are searching for is zero percent. The size of the victory does not qualify it. Never has.

And what is the substance behind the claim of "trying to rule as king?" It sounds very threatening, but there is not a shread of evidence of it. The Constitution still exists. all those who you say "bitterly opposed him" still exist. Why would they not use the Constitutional means to put a stop to it? The GOP ince tried to impeach President Clinton for lying under oath about an illicit affair. The GOP is more radical and recalcitrant now. Why not write articles of impeachment? Ya know what, that isn't going to happen either.

And if your measure of "ruling as a king" is the use of executive order, well, President Obama has issued fewer that any president in the last 100 years, on a daily average. You have to go back to Grover Cleveland to find someone who issued fewer per day. Where was the hype about "Kings" and such for the past 100 years?

The GOP is riding a red herring into oblivion. Opposition to reasonable gun regulations will hasten that pace.
I agree with you. Why should lots of people have to die during all of these mass shootings so that gun enthusiasts can enjoy shooting a lot of bullets very fast with military-type assault-style rifles?

There are guns and then there are GUNS. Be happy with regular guns, not the assault-style guns whose purpose is to kill a whole bunch of people very quickly.

I also wrote an article on OS called
"How much should we sacrifice so that nuts can have guns?"
Even the far right is split on this issue of gun control. Apparently the religious right realizes that mass shootings are not good. So when cousin Bubba starts flinging around his assault rifle at the Sunday gatherings they are self regulating him. Of course he is not going to go peacefully. Some people are just trigger happy.
I like the idea of a benevolent dictator. I have heard that is the best form of government. If Obama were my King I would be happy. But he is not. He has to keep us all in line and happy and that seems to be an impossible task. So he plays the game. He tries to work his ideas through this red mass that festers in our country like a plague.
I am glad he is showing some muscle in his second term. He needs to do that more often. When you are making everyone mad it is usually a sign that you are doing something right. The gun slingers got to do. This is not the wild west anymore. Obama has the vision of a more peaceful world where greed does not rule and people don't have assault weapons.
Sensible post.

Glad Bill responded to Herr Rude because I have laryngitis and it hurts to scream.

Garry's phrase, "How much should we sacrifice so that nuts can have guns?" pretty much sums it up.
It took over a hundred years to civilize the United States by prohibiting weapons, and establishing "law and order" through the use of publicly accountable police forces, and the court system. Now, they want us to return to a period of vigilantism. It is our duty as citizens to prevent them from doing so.
Holy smokes, the Right thinks Sandy Hook was a hoax?
Zanelle, you make so much sense here. I don't want to live in a place where everyone is armed. I piss a lot of people off, especially when I drive!
As usual, people who believe the (arbitrary interpretation of) the Second Amendment is more important than the lives of innocents throughout the nation refuse to discuss the problem at hand. The only solution they offer is putting more guns into the environments where children are expected to thrive. Frankly, I am not afraid of a civil war nearly as much as I am of the thinking or lack thereof on the far right. Bring it on.

Blaming Obama for everything hasn't work up till now, but they will continue to try it. I'm more than happy to piss them off.

Lezlie
Whatever you think about guns per se, there is a practical question that if one really started to tread on people on that topic, like it or not, danger will robinson, whatever you thought personally, as to humoring people you sometimes disagree with, especially about rare events like mass shootings. Other types of shootings, that's a different kettle of fish, if no one is talking about that, if for different sorts of reasons, mainly not being convenient for various agendas.
Obama did a brave and great thing today, using his presidential powers and the bully pulpit to get the ball rolling. If the conservatives can't take it, I hear there are some cartels in Mexico looking for help~
Well said, zanelle! I have lots of guns myself - SQUIRT GUNS! I LOVE squirt guns. I don't need guns to protect myself - I live with Dobermans. Besides, death, as Shakespeare said, "will come when it will come." I'm not going to hoard myself up a bunch of assault rifles "just in case." That ain't NO way to live.

I'm all for banning guns at some level. Will it erase all violence? No - violence is of the spirit, not a gun. But it will make it increasingly inconvenient for mentally unstable and just plain mean folks to massacre people just for sport.

I don't know if getting rid of guns will bring peace, because peace is also of the heart. China has very rigid gun control laws. So violent people use knives - they are very big on slashing people with knives in China. The day the school at Sandy Hook was attacked a guy slashed about 20 children in China.

Good post!
Well said. A "sane" way to look at our gun violence problem.
When the jails are full - and the right is still losing elections what else can you do is flood the underclasses with guns and ammo! Just like drug war - more guns is good policy - for those who live in gated communities and do not have kids in public school. Sure every once in a while a rich kid uses mom and dads stash to blast some innocent folks - but that is a small price to pay to keep democracy at bay!
I have never understood why anyone needs an assault rifle? A gun maybe yes guns do have a purpose in the world, if you are starving, protecting your young, but the only reason for a regular person to have this sort of gun would be to kill. just to kill....that scares me.
So, today President “If they won't do what's necessary, I WILL..”
announced his executive orders. :

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission). 
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. 
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement. 
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations. 
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies. 
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. 18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Oddly enough, none of them Ban assault weapons or limit the size of magazines, much less require background checks on private sales. Obviously, either he was talking tough for the benefit of his low information voters and never meant to be taken seriously by anyone who actually knows the limits of his power, or- Someone on his staff finally got through to him that if he actually did arrogate such powers to himself, a bill of impeachment would be on Harry Reid's desk before the end of the week. And after that was dismissed, another. and so on until he quit.

So, was he bluffing for the crowd, or just what is his purpose in teasing a chained dog that will rip him to shreds if he steps into its reach? Is he really so ignorant of law that he thought the promises he made yesterday ( to take unilateral action, essentially legislating as a monarch) would result in anything other than his impeachment?

He took a safe and ineffective way out in promulgating executive orders that are at least arguably within his purview. Why other than absolute emotional hysteria did he make the bluff? Did he somehow fulfill some sort of fantasy for you guys with his “head Fake?”

As to “Civil War?” Not much of one. The states would simply put the feds back in line with the original meaning lof the 9th and tenth amendment. The alphabet agencies are severely out gunned. The Military is banned from participation, and it hates his guts anyway. In 2014 states rights congressmen take over the house and the senate. In 2016 the presidency. Homeland security doesn't get to shoot up any of the 1.4 billion bullets it recently purchased. They get defunded and disbanded. That's the way a Democracy works when you rile up the people who count on it working every day so they can do their jobs and live their lives.

Dangers to our children? Well, most of your statistics come from places like Chicago where 15 and 16 year old children gun down anything moving, with guns that are already illegal, but readily available from the same place they get coke to sell. Other than that ( and even including that) more kids drown each year, - and are killed by automobiles. Less than 1% of gun homicides are committed with “Assault Rifles”.

And while we're at it, it works so well for our kids, lets make the White House and Congress “Gun Free Zones”.
Way I look at it is you can take all the weapons off the face of the earth and the violence in men's hearts will remain the same. As long as you have that, the final outcome is still the same. All any rules can do is alter the path to the same destination.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery
I just read this summation of what Obama announced. " Today, President Obama proposed "the most aggressive and expansive national gun-control agenda in generations."1

Mandatory background checks for all gun buyers. A ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips. More money for mental health. Stronger enforcement of the laws currently on the books."
Sounds good to me.
Herr, when was the last time that you actually knew what you were talking about?

The military hates the President's guts? Anyone who can make such a blanket statement has a loose grasp on reality.

As for that "gun free zones" crap that the NRA pushed recently in that absurd ad, and as for your silly statement regarding the "Congress and White House," I assure you that the Capitol and the White House are gun free zones i precisely the same manner that schools are. Random civilians are not permitted to bring guns into schools. Likewise, they are not permitted to bring them into The White House or the Capitol. That has been true for decades. That does not mean that professionals in the profession of arms can not carry them to protect potential targets within.

The NRA position is idiocy. This time, it is losing.
I still want to know about the "militia" all these gun owners belong to.

I think gun ownership is fine. People hunt for food with guns. Some would have to do without much meat in their diet without hunting. Some people collect guns, that is OK I see the need for gun ownership. I do see the "need" for assault weapons unless you plan to kill a lot of people. I do see the need for children to go to school, the need for all of us to be able to go to the store, watch a movie without someone showing up with an assault rifle. If the people who think that their desire to own this kind of weapon, is more important than a six year old being able to go to school, they should admit it.
Zanelle

PROPOSED..... quite a walk back from “If they won't do it I WILL.
The usurpation inherent in that “I WILL” is the stuff of the impeachment.

So instead He trotted out the kids and backed down from among others, Harry Reid

You may wish him to be King as much as you want. The Constitution forbids it.

Bill

I live next to the Largest Air Force Base in the World, I have numerous relatives and Friends and their Kids in all branches of the Armed Forces. They tend to come from Rural gun loving areas. They tend to hate arrogant show off bullies.

Obama's treatment of the military may not bother the brown nosing officers of Staff and Pentagon political jobs, but among the actual people at the sharp end of the stick, I know hundreds who know thousands. They View him as a coward who takes credit for martial values and virtues he doesn't even understand ( Honor and Trustworthiness among them) and shamelessly takes credit for the “victory” over Bin Laden and Al Quaeda (which he had little to do with) while informing our enemies of operational detail that helps them kill our troops. Hate his guts isn't nearly strong enough.

“Gun Free” means NO GUNS, Billie Boy. Let the Secret Service protect him with clubs, as we are apparently supposed to protect our families. “Professionals in the Profession of Arms” Jesus Bill, you almost sound as if you think you know something about it.

Are these the same Professionals that shoot a “Brother” dead in a New York Doorway by emptying their guns into him as he tries to show them his wallet?

The NRA position is Idiocy? We have armed guards at all our public building, and at the public Library here. Let's just declare the whole US a “Gun Free Zone.” ( Good luck with that)
PS

While we're talking about "Gun Free Zones", please explain Chicago to me- all guns illegal and the highest murder by gun rate in the country. 87% of the victims minorities.

Or Mexico- no civilian ownership of guns and school massacres aren't covered cause all the kids get killed in the streets, quite often with guns supplied to them by Holders BATF
Nice post zanelle. If I were starting a state from scratch there’d be all sorts of gun restrictions with exemptions for hunting, target practice and those who live in rural or wilderness areas. But playing with the hand that’s dealt, the Obama proposals are about as much as can be expected. Ban or heavily restrict assault-type weapons, close the gun show loopholes, and make sure that criminals, those on terrorist watch lists and the mentally disturbed can’t buy one.

Judging by his intemperate comments, the latter restriction might severely restrict Herr Rudolph. If he’s driven to drivel by Obama being barely legitimate by “only” winning by 4 million votes, he must have had a complete breakdown when Bush the Lesser won the presidency on a bogus Florida count while losing the popular vote by half a million.
Just read Snowden's post-

He has it closer to RIGHT

http://open.salon.com/blog/snowden/2013/01/16/controlling_democracy_not_guns
Thanks A! I can see our country becoming more guarded all the time. I remember when the Social Security Offices got armed guards and I was actually relieved because people can get really riled about their checks. Maybe it is a brutal world. But I don't see it that way. I see a military that appreciates intelligent leadership and I see the majority of people hoping for a better future than what the naysayers are predicting. So many people are thinking so darkly. Lighten up! Peace and Love.
@Abrawang

I'll trade you mental testing for gun purchase if you will submit to mental testing in order to vote. ( Not, by the way a Right ( like Gun ownership) , but a Privilege)

What I pointed out is that The Bamster is awfully truculent for somebody who keeps claiming he wants to be "Bi Partisan" And this latest little Chest beating about how "I'm Gonna DO IT!!!" only to back down and admit that he isn't actually empowered to...( on pain of Impeachment)

As many of the Lefties on OS have realized, Obama is neither Left nor Right, but just another crony Capitalist Puppet of Multinational Collectives. He couldn't care less about you or your kids.
I think I will close comments now. Herr, your negativity bums me out.
Comments are now closed.