Zashin

525,600 minutes - how do you measure a year?

zashin

zashin
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somewhere in, Utah,
Birthday
January 08
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When I have a terrible need of - shall I say the word - religion. Then I go out and paint the stars. ~Vincent Van Gogh

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Salon.com
NOVEMBER 17, 2009 11:22PM

Hang Them and Dump Them In The Ocean, She Cried

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lady justice Pictures, Images and Photos

Recently an ultra-conservative niece commented on her Facebook status “How can OUR president even THINK of having the 9/11 terrorists tried on OUR soil in NYC? Maybe we should ask Obama if he wants to Live in NY while the trial is going on? How does he look at himself in the mirror at night?” 

This, of course, brought on the comments, on both sides of the fence, but the comments that have been playing in my head were from the first two commenters. The first commenter asked question “Where else would you have them tried?”, a fair question and the second scoffed at the issue altogether saying “Ha ha ha ha. LMAO at you two. This one's not even worth debating. Who cares where the trial is? I was thinking New York was actually kind of appropriate. Give people there some satisfacation that justice prevails and all.”

My nieces’ stance is “Not in america! Especially not amoung the families of the victims of 9 11 so the misery is spread out 4 another 8 years,. We should just hang them and dump them in the ocean without a trial at all!”

I can certainly understand her sentiment but what she does not seem to be thinking about and it would seem her commenters are not either is that where a trial takes place is indeed important.  That and the fact that no matter the charges and the guilt or innocence of the accused there must always be a respect for the due process of justice.  Or there will be no justice, now or in the future.  If we throw it all out the window for this particular trial and simply prosecute without a trial, without due process, we then open the door for anarchy.

My niece also makes the comment that “These dogs do not deserve the same rights as citizens of the US, THEY are not!  True enough.  They do not deserve the same rights as US citizens, but this is not about individual rights.  It’s about preserving justice and liberty for all humankind.  No matter how heinous a crime may be and no matter how clear cut an accuseds guilt may be, if you don’t follow the laws of justice once it only becomes harder and harder to maintain order and justice down the road. 

Where a trial is held becomes as important as any other element of the judicial process. The thought of these trials being overthrown down the road for some minor issue that in anyway can be attributed to the fact they were held on American soil is definitely not a pleasant thought.  Cases get overturned for minor things quite often.  This is the basis on which I agree with her that perhaps America is not the right place for the trials.  What place is best suited is a very tough decision indeed as unfair bias can certainly go both ways and I have no answers or suggestions for that.

What I do know is that should I or anyone I care about ever be accused of any crime, guilty or innocent, here in America or in any other country, is that I want to have all aspects of a fair and just trial to be in place and not thrown away because we let our emotions rule the day.

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Niece is wrong on three counts. First, dogs are treated much better than human beings in America. Second: the crime was against America; they MUST be tried in America. Third, I think justice/revenge is pretty much done: They killed 3000, we killed, I don't know, two millions. That we did not kill all the right people is our mistake; we went after the wrong people, rather than targeting and killing the guilty terrorists.

They don't deserve a trial, but we made the huge mistake of putting them in jail. Now we have to try them...here.

You are right on all counts.
Very thoughtful and well written post.
Rated.
Thanks Thoth. Sadly you are right on all counts as well.
All very clearly and logically argued.
Doesn't Anarchy already exist? Why take just 9/11 alone. Take all the world wide incidents. The one in London, the one in Mumbai. I guess this opens a Pandora's box. If we go back in history, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Lenin combined killed and massacred more than millions. Do they they require fair justice. I would say no.
There is a difference between committing a crime and being evil and these are evil people
I think you are so right!
And I love your Van Gogh quote!
Agree with you completely on this and with Thoth except for one point. They deserve a trial because some of them could actually not be guilty.
"These dogs do not deserve the same rights as citizens of the US, THEY are not!” This really goes to the heart of a lot of the problems in America. Some people feel that a person's rights depend on whether or not they agree with your opinion.
Thanks Leo for all your input here and not here. :)

You are right Kalyan, in that anarchy does keep rearing it's head now and throughout history. It's not just isolated to 9/11. My point here would be that we must be careful not to let it become the ruling force.

Thanks FYEO and Siren. You have some good points as well.
Good post. I thought about posting about this myself but couldn't find the energy to argue with the nitwits.

The point of trying suspects isn't about the guilty, it is about the innocent -us. Protecting us. I'm not a fan of slippery slope arguments but in this case, deciding that we can administer justice without due process, under any circumstance, is a slippery slope we don't want to go down, for the sake of all of us.

Kalyan, we did go after the war criminals from WWII in Nuremberg. Hitler would have been among those tried if he had been alive to prosecute.

Once we suspend the rule of law, even international law, we are all in danger. Then the terrorists really have won. Bush never got that when he illegally detained people at Gitmo - or maybe he did get it...
Exactly Cap'n! See, I knew you got it! :))
Have em in Nuremburg.
Refurbish Aushwitz up to working order.
Send em naked in trains to the death camp.
Give em nice warm showers.

Hoo boy that'll serve the blood lust, and teach
of these devolved conservative imbeciles history, too...
they're tight with Israel, right?

achtung
Hello James, good to hear from you again. What? Davy Jones' locker too good? ;)